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View Poll Results: Should the Parthenon Marbles reurn?

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  • Yes, they belong to Greece.

    2 66.67%
  • No, they rightfully belong to the British Museum.

    0 0%
  • Nom, the Greeks cannot preserve them.

    1 33.33%
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Thread: Parthenon marbles: should they come back?

  1. #1
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    Parthenon marbles: should they come back?



    What do you believe? Should the Parthenon Marbles return to the country that created them?

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    Or should the Marbles stay in the country that saved them from the prospect of probable destruction or damage? I can see both sides of the argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    Or should the Marbles stay in the country that saved them from almost certain destruction? I can see both sides of the argument.
    We are not under Ottomans now. What has been stolen, must be returned! After all the Brits have Stonehenge.

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    Okay, I edited my original comment because it was a deliberate exaggeration. But since the Turks had owned the Marbles for centuries, they did have a right to sell them or give them away. And nobody has proven that Lord Elgin didn't have permission to take them. It's unlikely he could have removed the Marbles if he didn't have permission from the Turks, who were the owners at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    Okay, I edited my original comment because it was a deliberate exaggeration. But since the Turks had owned the Marbles for centuries, they did have a right to sell them or give them away. And nobody has proven that Lord Elgin didn't have permission to take them. It's unlikely he could have removed the Marbles if he didn't have permission from the Turks, who were the owners at the time.
    Even if he purchased them rightfully from the Ottomans, again it does not mean anything. It is ethically a theft, for the real owners would never sell them. It is like you ask the Germans during the occupation to sell you the Acropolis along with the sacred rock ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echetlaeus View Post
    Even if he purchased them rightfully from the Ottomans, again it does not mean anything. It is ethically a theft, for the real owners would never sell them. It is like you ask the Germans during the occupation to sell you the Acropolis along with the sacred rock ...
    So, would you say that the current government of Greece has no title to Paleolithic artifacts found in Greece? After all, the people who made them probably weren't ancestral to the modern Greeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    So, would you say that the current government of Greece has no title to Paleolithic artifacts found in Greece? After all, the people who made them probably weren't ancestral to the modern Greeks.
    Proof or it did not happen!
    You are trying to be smart here, but

    And the paleolithic stuff belong to the place that they were found

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    It should be sent to Nashville where a proper Parthenon stands in it's top glory.



    And where Athina feels at home:






    I think Greeks should rebuild whole Acropolis to show first that they care about their heritage.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It should be sent to Nashville where a proper Parthenon stands in it's top glory.



    And where Athina feels at home:






    I think Greeks should rebuild whole Acropolis to show first that they care about their heritage.
    Indeed, very beautiful, but fake. I am really impressed by this kind of statement from someone who is in a History forum. I asked myself, what the heck is this guy talking about? Is he for real? Then I realised that you say that just to piss me off, but of course these kind of statements do not touch me.

    There is a point trying to preserve it for it reminds us who we are. It is a piece of history. BTW Athena likes to live in the sacred land where she was born one day from Zeus' head.

    Cheers !

    P.S. By the way reveal your ethnicity like everyone else here. Then I may understand better with whom I talk and the intentions behind your sayings? Is that OK with you brah?

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    By the way, why so many Canadians in here and generally outsiders?
    Where are the real Eurobros?

    I am sure that the real Eurobros will support me. Canadians are very tightly related to the Brits, and of course, like them, they try to be nice to everyone else, except in the case when their direct interests are at stake. What a race these Brits are! They tell you one thing and they mean whatever ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echetlaeus View Post
    Indeed, very beautiful, but fake.
    Fake but still so real and beautiful. Where is your original one? Oh right, your Christian forefathers closed this pagan temple and moved Athena to Constantinople and ... lost it. Nice.
    In this case isn't the fake one better than none? You should be a little bit happy, no?

    What if I'm Turk or Albanian? Do you have a reason to hate me more now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Fake but still so real and beautiful. Where is your original one? Oh right, your Christian forefathers closed this pagan temple and moved Athena to Constantinople and ... lost it. Nice.
    In this case isn't the fake one better than none? You should be a little bit happy, no?

    What if I'm Turk or Albanian? Do you have a reason to hate me more now?
    C'mon, with that logic let the Brits have copies, they can make them brand new after all. You a little bit irrational here, don't you think?

    Why do you talk about Christian forefathers? When the Roman Empire changed the original religion, this was the end Hellenism. Everything Greek was pagan for them. And yes, they destroyed everything !
    Now, as far as your ethnicity is concerned, well I want to see if you have sources of bias in your blood. Is that inappropriate? I have revealed my ethnicity already!
    From your statements so far I may think the same way, that is, should you be Turkish or Albanian will mean that you will have higher probability to attack me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echetlaeus View Post
    When the Roman Empire changed the original religion, this was the end Hellenism. Everything Greek was pagan for them. And yes, they destroyed everything !
    Yeah, blame it on the Romans. I bet the Persian feel the same love towards the Greeks and Alexander (not so) Great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FBS View Post
    Yeah, blame it on the Romans. I bet the Persian feel the same love towards the Greeks and Alexander (not so) Great.
    OP disapproves your statement. And perhaps you should try to answer the question of this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echetlaeus View Post
    OP disapproves your statement.
    ? who/what disapproves my statement? By "statement" you meant my opinion, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FBS View Post
    ? who/what disapproves my statement? By "statement" you meant my opinion, right?
    What is your opinion about the Parthenon Marbles Sir?
    This is the question of this thread!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echetlaeus View Post
    What is your opinion about the Parthenon Marbles Sir?
    This is the question of this thread!
    Ups, sorry for not following your orders SIR! I have expressed my opinion, maybe not the way you liked it, but that's how these forums are... Hope that you will get more than your own opinion in your OP. Good luck with it. Over and out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FBS View Post
    Yeah, blame it on the Romans. I bet the Persian feel the same love towards the Greeks and Alexander (not so) Great.
    Yes, that's the example I should have used (although I still think my reference to Paleolithic artifacts was valid).

    Greece must return to Iran everything that Al the Great looted from Ecbatana or no return of the Elgin Marbles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FBS View Post
    Ups, sorry for not following your orders SIR! I have expressed my opinion, maybe not the way you liked it, but that's how these forums are... Hope that you will get more than your own opinion in your OP. Good luck with it. Over and out.
    Bro, OP = Original Poster
    You have not said specifically what you mean, are you in favour of return or you are against? Is that so difficult to say in a clean and direct, laconic may I add, way?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    Yes, that's the example I should have used (although I still think my reference to Paleolithic artifacts was valid).

    Greece must return to Iran everything that Al the Great looted from Ecbatana or no return of the Elgin Marbles.
    I agree with that ! If we have something that does not belong to us, it must be returned if asked officially by Persia.

    Then, we ask officially to get ANY artifact that was taken from our country from all museums around the world. The same must be done by Egypt and all the other ancient civilisations. Then you, living in the New World, or pro-barbaric countries, can show your own artifacts, or at least what you have.

    Over and out, I hope you feel right now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echetlaeus View Post
    By the way, why so many Canadians in here and generally outsiders?
    Where are the real Eurobros?

    I am sure that the real Eurobros will support me. Canadians are very tightly related to the Brits, and of course, like them, they try to be nice to everyone else, except in the case when their direct interests are at stake. What a race these Brits are! They tell you one thing and they mean whatever ...
    Why are there so many Americans on this forum, flying a false flag about what country they live in? Europeans living in Canada and Canadian citizens born elsewhere aren't ashamed to tell the world that they live in Canada. So, what's up with some of you Americans?

    The majority of Canadians on here seem to be immigrants from Europe. And, while I can only speculate as to the reason they come here, it might have something to do with missing Europe. Or maybe living in a country other than the country of their origin makes them more likely to be interested in things like genetics and history. But I don't really know - I'm sure we all have our own stories. And, actually, only about 40% of the Canadian population is of British descent. A lot are of Irish, French or German descent, and there are people here whose ancestors came from every corner of the world, not to mention the Native population.

    In my case, I'm mostly of British descent but from a family that's been in Canada for many generations, and I don't particularly identify with the Brits. I generally like Scottish people but don't feel any nationalistic affinity with them, and I've found a lot of English people to be rather abnoxious, to be honest.

    What does any of this have to do with the Elgin Marbles?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    Why are there so many Americans on this forum, flying a false flag about what country they live in? Europeans living in Canada and Canadian citizens born elsewhere aren't ashamed to tell the world that they live in Canada. So, what's up with some of you Americans?

    The majority of Canadians on here seem to be immigrants from Europe. And, while I can only speculate as to the reason they come here, it might have something to do with missing Europe. Or maybe living in a country other than the country of their origin makes them more likely to be interested in things like genetics and history. But I don't really know - I'm sure we all have our own stories. And, actually, only about 40% of the Canadian population is of British descent. A lot are of Irish, French or German descent, and there are people here whose ancestors came from every corner of the world, not to mention the Native population.

    In my case, I'm mostly of British descent but from a family that's been in Canada for many generations, and I don't particularly identify with the Brits. I generally like Scottish people but don't feel any nationalistic affinity with them, and I've found a lot of English people to be rather abnoxious, to be honest.

    What does any of this have to do with the Elgin Marbles?
    What false flag, I am studying in the USA, but I am from Greece. Is that so difficult to understand?
    As a Brit you are biased!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It should be sent to Nashville where a proper Parthenon stands in it's top glory.



    And where Athina feels at home:






    I think Greeks should rebuild whole Acropolis to show first that they care about their heritage.
    Or at least learn to properly take care of those they still have!
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-crisis-athens

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    Quote Originally Posted by hope View Post
    Or at least learn to properly take care of those they still have!
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-crisis-athens
    Exactly. I'm afraid that, due to financial problems and lack of funds for heritage and museums, Greeks will receive the marbles and put it in storage.

    About rebuilding versus taking care of ruins. I think some of the greatest monuments should be restored to their former glory. We have so much more joy and interest when looking at all the details and beauty of finished "product" than to look only at some remaining foundations of ancient buildings or cities. Even if half of it will be considered fake, when rebuilt, it still can carry a better educational and esthetic value to the population.

    Do we consider Louvre or Versailles fake? Surely it is not all original anymore. I'm sure the original roof, or roof covering was replaced. I'm sure there were fires that destroyed parts of the palace, and it wasn't rebuilt exactly same way. Some walls were repainted or restuccoed few times. Electrical, plumbing and heating was added. Etc, etc.

    So what would be a crime to rebuild coliseum for example. Even better, lets rebuild it and introduce gladiator shows for tourists there. Fake fights as american wrestling, lol, but I'm sure tourists would leave twice the money for the grand experience. Eat some roman treats (ala popcorn) and drink Roman beer, well at least try, lol. Dress in toga of senators, judge with your thumbs, and have a picture with fake cezar. At least I would pay so much more than going to see only ruins.

  25. #25
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    I understand that we have financial problems. However this by no means make you the owners of the marbles. Per your statements above (Canadian guy and English woman), if you want to have something finished and admire its looks, just take the blueprint and make your own. We want these Marbles back because they belong to our heritage.

    Why don't you destroy the Stonehenge and create a new one in its position? Also, how about giving us the Stonehenge? Then I will say that we are equal.

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