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View Poll Results: Will Orthodox and Catholic Chrurch be unified in the future?

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Thread: Orthodoxy and Catholicism: From Separation to Unification

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    Orthodoxy and Catholicism: From Separation to Unification



    Is that possible in the new era?

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    As a Catholic myself, I never heard anything about reunification however I'm surea catholic priest and Pope Franciscan shed some light :)

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    I heard about it long time ago once and another time couple years ago. I don't think it will ever happen because there are too many differences and conflicts between the two. I don't think the pope believes in it either.

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    No because the division is too deep

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    Im not sure what everyone else is talking about in the above posts. I think it is a huge possiblilty in the future, and Im almost certain it will eventually happen. This is a massively discussed topic in the catholic church, contrary to what the other catholic mentioned on here. First of besides ancient predjudices that still persist in local (orthodox) poopulations among the lay people (and some clergy) the relationships between the two churches is at an all time high. If it wasnt for the russian orthodox church, who is the most anti rome and west from all the orthodox churches and the most powerful , they may have joined up a long time ago. Patriarch bartholomew who is technically the first among equals of the orthodox church and its symbolic head is very close to the pope and is very positive towards the catholic church calling Rome the older brother. I saw a video of the patriarch of bulgaria meeting pope benedikt 16 and he literally knelt down and kissed the Popes ring. There was also a meeting of many orthodox bishops and Patriarchs( not russian) where they all agreed that the Roman pontiff was historically the head of the church and not just first among equals, but they disagree on how that is played out in the church and on papal infallibility. Pope J P 2 even said he would be wiling to limit some of his papal powers if it meant unity with the eastern church.

    To the people who said there are too many differences....the differences in beliefs are very minute and scrupulous, the faiths are almost exactly the same, just with different liturgies. The main obstacle is the Papacy and its role in the world church. I see this as a big possibility in the future and i hope i see it in my life time.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by srdceleva View Post
    Im not sure what everyone else is talking about in the above posts. I think it is a huge possiblilty in the future, and Im almost certain it will eventually happen. This is a massively discussed topic in the catholic church, contrary to what the other catholic mentioned on here. First of besides ancient predjudices that still persist in local (orthodox) poopulations among the lay people (and some clergy) the relationships between the two churches is at an all time high. If it wasnt for the russian orthodox church, who is the most anti rome and west from all the orthodox churches and the most powerful , they may have joined up a long time ago. Patriarch bartholomew who is technically the first among equals of the orthodox church and its symbolic head is very close to the pope and is very positive towards the catholic church calling Rome the older brother. I saw a video of the patriarch of bulgaria meeting pope benedikt 16 and he literally knelt down and kissed the Popes ring. There was also a meeting of many orthodox bishops and Patriarchs( not russian) where they all agreed that the Roman pontiff was historically the head of the church and not just first among equals, but they disagree on how that is played out in the church and on papal infallibility. Pope J P 2 even said he would be wiling to limit some of his papal powers if it meant unity with the eastern church.

    To the people who said there are too many differences....the differences in beliefs are very minute and scrupulous, the faiths are almost exactly the same, just with different liturgies. The main obstacle is the Papacy and its role in the world church. I see this as a big possibility in the future and i hope i see it in my life time.
    I completely agree. Even back when I was a girl in high school we would have regular ecumenical services with the Orthodox church in our community. We were taught that if we couldn't find a Catholic church while traveling to look for an Orthodox one, and take communion there.

    People who aren't really versed in theology and the history of the rift don't really understand how small the gap is, and if they're not actively involved in the religious life of either community then they don't realize how much progress has already been made toward re-unification.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I completely agree. Even back when I was a girl in high school we would have regular ecumenical services with the Orthodox church in our community. We were taught that if we couldn't find a Catholic church while traveling to look for an Orthodox one, and take communion there.

    People who aren't really versed in theology and the history of the rift don't really understand how small the gap is, and if they're not actively involved in the religious life of either community then they don't realize how much progress has already been made toward re-unification.
    I have heard that orthodoxy dogma is also very similar to Islamic one, the moderate Islamist. The biggest distance is between Catholics and Islam. This is the view among the impartial people who study theology. Orthodoxy is also violent at times.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    I have heard that orthodoxy dogma is also very similar to Islamic one, the moderate Islamist. The biggest distance is between Catholics and Islam. This is the view among the impartial people who study theology. Orthodoxy is also violent at times.
    Anyone who told you that has never read a theology book in their lives. They've also perhaps been living in Skinner's box for their entire lives.

    Are you aware that Islam doesn't recognize the divinity of Christ? Are you aware that this is the central belief of all Christians? How could Orthodox Catholicism be very close to Islam? That's absolutely mad.

    There are no major differences between the beliefs of Orthodox Catholics and Roman Catholics, as was pointed out by another poster, other than the infallibility of the Pope. The rest is just liturgical differences.

    "Are Catholics and Orthodox truly that different? For half a century now the two sides have been referring to each other officially as sister churches. A list of theological sticking points looks relatively short, and the Catholic understanding of papal supremacy is generally agreed to be the greatest difficulty. Old disputes over the filioque clause in the Nicene Creed (the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son) and the modern Roman dogmas of the Immaculate Conception and Assumption, both about Mary, are usually agreed by ecumenical cognoscenti to be subspecies of the problem of papal assertions. No one thinks this division can be solved entirely on a theological level. There are political wounds to be healed as well, especially over perceived proselytism by Catholics, most notably in the case of the Uniate Eastern Catholic churches."

    "Two major cultural differences can be detected in the way Orthodox and Catholics live out their visions of Christianity. The first includes attitudes toward liturgy."

    The other difference relates to things like fasting and prayer rituals.

    http://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2007/12/03/what-divides-orthodox-and-catholics-how-faithful-can-foster-ecumenism-level-church

    The basic problem is politics, with the Russian Orthodox Church throwing up roadblocks. Even that patriarch doesn't point out major theological differences and would I'm sure be absolutely horrified that his religion is close in terms of dogma to Islam.

    Where are these unbiased theologians who think that the dogma of the Orthodox churches is close to Islam or that there are huge differences in dogma between Roman and Orthodox Catholics? You had better be prepared to cite your sources when you make a preposterous claim like that. I want the links to these theologians please. If you can't do it, stop repeating misinformation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I completely agree. Even back when I was a girl in high school we would have regular ecumenical services with the Orthodox church in our community. We were taught that if we couldn't find a Catholic church while traveling to look for an Orthodox one, and take communion there.

    People who aren't really versed in theology and the history of the rift don't really understand how small the gap is, and if they're not actively involved in the religious life of either community then they don't realize how much progress has already been made toward re-unification.
    The gap is political, not theological.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Anyone who told you that has never read a theology book in their lives. They've also perhaps been living in Skinner's box for their entire lives.

    Are you aware that Islam doesn't recognize the divinity of Christ? Are you aware that this is the central belief of all Christians? How could Orthodox Catholicism be very close to Islam? That's absolutely mad.

    There are no major differences between the beliefs of Orthodox Catholics and Roman Catholics, as was pointed out by another poster, other than the infallibility of the Pope. The rest is just liturgical differences.

    "Are Catholics and Orthodox truly that different? For half a century now the two sides have been referring to each other officially as sister churches. A list of theological sticking points looks relatively short, and the Catholic understanding of papal supremacy is generally agreed to be the greatest difficulty. Old disputes over the filioque clause in the Nicene Creed (the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son) and the modern Roman dogmas of the Immaculate Conception and Assumption, both about Mary, are usually agreed by ecumenical cognoscenti to be subspecies of the problem of papal assertions. No one thinks this division can be solved entirely on a theological level. There are political wounds to be healed as well, especially over perceived proselytism by Catholics, most notably in the case of the Uniate Eastern Catholic churches."

    "Two major cultural differences can be detected in the way Orthodox and Catholics live out their visions of Christianity. The first includes attitudes toward liturgy."

    The other difference relates to things like fasting and prayer rituals.

    http://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2007/12/03/what-divides-orthodox-and-catholics-how-faithful-can-foster-ecumenism-level-church

    The basic problem is politics, with the Russian Orthodox Church throwing up roadblocks. Even that patriarch doesn't point out major theological differences and would I'm sure be absolutely horrified that his religion is close in terms of dogma to Islam.

    Where are these unbiased theologians who think that the dogma of the Orthodox churches is close to Islam or that there are huge differences in dogma between Roman and Orthodox Catholics? You had better be prepared to cite your sources when you make a preposterous claim like that. I want the links to these theologians please. If you can't do it, stop repeating misinformation.
    You did not get my point or I did not explained clearly.!
    If you take the Islamic philosophy, the way of thinking, is very similar with Orthodox way of thinking. Similar does not mean The same. Of course they have different characters in play, and different narratives how events unfolded, but at the end they produce very similar behavior among their followers. Both philosophies lead to violence. Let say the spiritual philosophy of Russians is Orthodoxy. Look how violent their behavior is, look what they are doing to their fellow Ukrainians. The same does not happen between fellow Catholic countries. Let say France and Italy are not fighting over the city of Nice, even though Nice is an Italian city because they share the philosophy of peace. You see why I am saying the dogma of Islam and that of Orthodoxy produce the same behavior thats why they are similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    You did not get my point or I did not explained clearly.!
    If you take the Islamic philosophy, the way of thinking, is very similar with Orthodox way of thinking. Similar does not mean The same. Of course they have different characters in play, and different narratives how events unfolded, but at the end they produce very similar behavior among their followers. Both philosophies lead to violence. Let say the spiritual philosophy of Russians is Orthodoxy. Look how violent their behavior is, look what they are doing to their fellow Ukrainians. The same does not happen between fellow Catholic countries. Let say France and Italy are not fighting over the city of Nice, even though Nice is an Italian city because they share the philosophy of peace. You see why I am saying the dogma of Islam and that of Orthodoxy produce the same behavior thats why they are similar.


    Someone must read history again.

    Austria Italy and France are all catholics,
    but how may wars have among them?
    at least the time of Napoleon,

    Religious wars are over in modern Europe, except Balkans
    which always is back or ahead of rest EU.
    Balkans can be 200 years behind rest Europe and same time 100 years infront.

    anyway the first effort was done around 1440 AD with pope Eugenios 5 at Ferarra-Florentia
    the next happeneδ at 5 january at 1964 at Jerusalem
    and the last this year 2016 also at Jerusalem

    Happens or not has no meaning,
    at least for me since both are christians, but both are corporations,

    But the stupidity that Orthodox are like Islam or near Islam
    IS THE STUPIEST THING I HEARD AT THE FORUM.
    Maybe the writer believes that at East church countries exist Sharia Law. !!!!!!
    or that at Orthodox comunities they stone for punishement


    so
    So outside Orthodox churches we see such views correct Dupidh?



    and maybe at the hospitals of Orthodox countries the common view is this

    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    You did not get my point or I did not explained clearly.!
    If you take the Islamic philosophy, the way of thinking, is very similar with Orthodox way of thinking. Similar does not mean The same. Of course they have different characters in play, and different narratives how events unfolded, but at the end they produce very similar behavior among their followers. Both philosophies lead to violence. Let say the spiritual philosophy of Russians is Orthodoxy. Look how violent their behavior is, look what they are doing to their fellow Ukrainians. The same does not happen between fellow Catholic countries. Let say France and Italy are not fighting over the city of Nice, even though Nice is an Italian city because they share the philosophy of peace. You see why I am saying the dogma of Islam and that of Orthodoxy produce the same behavior thats why they are similar.
    the teachings of orthodoxy have absolutely nothing to do with violence and no more in common with islam than catholocism. Violent wars that accured recently were due to the collapse of yugoslavia and were almost entirely political. The balkans has historically been divided based on tribal and religious affiliation so naturaly that plays into it, but the wars themselves were political. Also, Islam was part of all of that too, not just orthodoxy. To claim orthodoxy is closer to islam than catholocism, is like claiming soccer in spain is closer to cricket than soccer in england is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by srdceleva View Post
    the teachings of orthodoxy have absolutely nothing to do with violence and no more in common with islam than catholocism. Violent wars that accured recently were due to the collapse of yugoslavia and were almost entirely political. The balkans has historically been divided based on tribal and religious affiliation so naturaly that plays into it, but the wars themselves were political. Also, Islam was part of all of that too, not just orthodoxy. To claim orthodoxy is closer to islam than catholocism, is like claiming soccer in spain is closer to cricket than soccer in england is.
    Don't get me wrong! I am an atheist with no knowledge about religions. But the scholars find many common points between Islam and Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy coexist in many Islamic countries with Islam. That's not the point with Catholicism. Let say you have orthodox people in Lebanon who coexist with Islam. This does not translate with christian girls going out on miniskirts and Muslim girls on hijab. They both appear in public similar and have the same way of thinking. I am not saying that Christians preach for Mohammad, but they also show prejudice against women.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Don't get me wrong! I am an atheist with no knowledge about religions. But the scholars find many common points between Islam and Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy coexist in many Islamic countries with Islam. That's not the point with Catholicism. Let say you have orthodox people in Lebanon who coexist with Islam. This does not translate with christian girls going out on miniskirts and Muslim girls on hijab. They both appear in public similar and have the same way of thinking. I am not saying that Christians preach for Mohammad, but they also show prejudice against women.
    You have failed to produce links to statements by theologians which support your view. Now you claim that scholars support your view. Please provide the appropriate links, or admit that they don't exist and your statement was incorrect.

    As for the remainder of your post it's absolutely false. Are you aware that a good number of the churches in the East are in fact in communion with the Roman church and merely maintain a different liturgy?

    Where you have gotten the absurd idea that Eastern Christian women follow Muslim codes in dress other than out of fear of harassment and worse I have no idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Don't get me wrong! I am an atheist with no knowledge about religions. But the scholars find many common points between Islam and Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy coexist in many Islamic countries with Islam. That's not the point with Catholicism. Let say you have orthodox people in Lebanon who coexist with Islam. This does not translate with christian girls going out on miniskirts and Muslim girls on hijab. They both appear in public similar and have the same way of thinking. I am not saying that Christians preach for Mohammad, but they also show prejudice against women.
    Oh
    so there are not Catholics at Syrria (hundreds thousands, 2-3% of Population) in fact they are Greek catholic not Roman Catholic
    there are not Catholics at Lebanon and Palaistine
    there not Catholics at Turkey, or Egypt
    there are not Catholics at Nigera Malli Nigeria
    there not catholics at Kenya or Somalia
    etc etc etc


    Orthodox of Syrria




    Melekite Greek catholic of Syrria




    and an old photo from Maronites Catholics (ex-monothelitisms)
    maybe they look like Turks? or Greeks or Cypriots or Egyptians? with the Fez on head



    Dupidh from their look and dress do you believe thay are not Christians?
    cause they are not dressed like Europeans?


    just for your info
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_Syria
    Last edited by Yetos; 25-02-17 at 20:00.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Oh
    so there are not Catholics at Syrria (hundreds thousands, 2-3% of Population)
    there are not Catholics at Lebanon and Palaistine
    there not Catholics at Turkey,
    there are not Catholics at Nigera Malli Nigeria
    there not catholics at Kenya or Somalia
    etc etc etc
    Most people, Americans, in particular, have no clue that there are churches in the east and other parts of the world which don't follow the Roman "rite" or liturgy, but who are nevertheless in total communion with Roman Catholics, accepting the supremacy of the Pope. The Orthodox are a different matter, but still very close. Regardless, the very idea that Orthodox Catholic Christianity teaches the same kinds of attitudes or accepts the behaviors of, say, not even Isis, but even Wahabism, for example, is nonsense.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches

    By the way, the Maronite church to which the Lebanese Christians belong has always remained in total communion with the "Latin" Roman Catholic church.

    Beirut, with its many Christian Lebanese, used to be a very cosmopolitan city from all I've heard and read, the "Paris" of the Near East. No more, unfortunately.

    Look at these pictures of Beirut in 1965, before the Civil War, and think of it today. It also doesn't look to me like they were following "Muslim" codes of dress.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/photo...-middle-east-7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Most people, Americans, in particular, have no clue that there are churches in the east and other parts of the world which don't follow the Roman "rite" or liturgy, but who are nevertheless in total communion with Roman Catholics, accepting the supremacy of the Pope. The Orthodox are a different matter, but still very close. Regardless, the very idea that Orthodox Catholic Christianity teaches the same kinds of attitudes or accepts the behaviors of, say, not even Isis, but even Wahabism, for example, is nonsense.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches

    By the way, the Maronite church to which the Lebanese Christians belong has always remained in total communion with the "Latin" Roman Catholic church.

    Beirut, with its many Christian Lebanese, used to be a very cosmopolitan city from all I've heard and read, the "Paris" of the Near East. No more, unfortunately.

    Look at these pictures of Beirut in 1965, before the Civil War, and think of it today. It also doesn't look to me like they were following "Muslim" codes of dress.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/photo...-middle-east-7

    Melekites or Melkite are Greek Catholics
    Maronites are ex-Monothelitism who enter Roman-Catholic

    etc are Chaldeans in Iraq
    Armenian Catholics

    at Near East and middle East due to old teaches of Monophysites, Nestorianism Eutuchianism etc etc
    and due to Crusades and Islam many things that are strange to our eyes you will see.

    Christianity in Antiocheia is older than Alexandreia and Rome,
    Edessa and Antiocheia are the second after Jerusalem in chronological time
    In fact Rome is the last city that the apostoloi step, but founded by Peter,

    so at the eyes of a typical Catholic or an Orthodox that converted by Rome or Nova Rome, a western these christianity seems and sounds strange,

    anyway, it seems that no matter a pagan, i know more about christianity, than many in the forum.


    these are chants of Catholics at Syria



    As you see Christian is not only Romano-Latin and Greek-Koine language

    These are also Catholic, Arabic
    when I hear them I think I am in an orthodox church,
    just hear them, and hear an Orthodox liturgy after,
    it is the same feeling,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T04Y..._bQdSE1gh7qEGk
    Last edited by Yetos; 25-02-17 at 21:19.

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    Islam - Catholic

    Language perspective is similar. Praying in Arabic and Latin. Turkey tried to change pray language as Turkish pray call(ezan), but it didn't succes. So both religion have same perspective in this case.

    Islam - Protestan

    There is no marriage ban

    Islam - Orthodox Christianity

    Maybe something with Sunni Islam/Orthodox Islam

    Hıdırellez and St. George day is common festival.

    Islam - Eastern Orthodox

    Especially, Eastern Orthodox christian who lives in Middle East are more similar with Islam then the others in community/cultural rules. It is effect of living side by side.

    and I know that there Christians who believe that Jesus was just a man and prophet as in Islam.

    but I don't see clear similarity between Islam and one Christianity branch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    Islam - Catholic

    Language perspective is similar. Praying in Arabic and Latin. Turkey tried to change pray language as Turkish pray call(ezan), but it didn't succes. So both religion have same perspective in this case.

    Islam - Protestan

    There is no marriage ban

    Islam - Orthodox Christianity

    Maybe something with Sunni Islam/Orthodox Islam

    Hıdırellez and St. George day is common festival.

    Islam - Eastern Orthodox

    Especially, Eastern Orthodox christian who lives in Middle East are more similar with Islam then the others in community/cultural rules. It is effect of living side by side.

    and I know that there Christians who believe that Jesus was just a man and prophet as in Islam.

    but I don't see clear similarity between Islam and one Christianity branch.
    Latin hasn't been used in Roman Catholic liturgy or prayer for decades, not since Vatican II.

    As for your second bolded comment, whatever those people claim they are, whatever they were born or raised, they're not Christians, and I include in that members of Unitarian churches. It's like saying you don't believe Mohammed is the Prophet, but you're still a Muslim.

    To be a Christian one has to believe in some version of the Nicene Creed. It's part of Roman Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Protestantism etc.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed

    This is the Roman Catholic version. It's recited by everyone at every single Mass.

    "We believe in one God,
    the Father, the Almighty,
    Maker of all that is, seen and unseen.

    We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
    the only Son of God,
    eternally begotten of the Father,
    God from God, Light from Light,
    true God from true God,
    begotten, not made, consubstantial
    of one Being with the Father.

    Through him all things were made.

    For us men and for our salvation
    he came down from heaven:
    and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate
    he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
    and was made man.

    For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
    he suffered death and was buried.

    On the third day he rose again
    in accordance with the Scriptures;
    he ascended into heaven
    and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

    He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
    and his kingdom will have no end.

    We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
    who proceeds from the Father and the Son.

    With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.

    He has spoken through the Prophets.

    We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

    We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

    We look for the resurrection of the dead,
    and the life of the world to come. Amen."

    I'm fully aware there are lots of "Cafeteria Catholics" around; I used to be one myself. That's ok, in my opinion, when you're talking about rules and traditions that have accrued around the religion, like male clergy being celibate, or birth control etc. It's different when you find you can't believe in the central dogmas of the faith; then you should get out, which is what I did.

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    I think history of Churches and religion should be teached at Schools,

    Wars happened from the ignorance and fear of people,

    Personally I believe that History of at least big and established religions should taught at Schools,
    Not the Dogma, but the history
    just to avoid situations that sprung from ignorance.

    for example the title of Papa (pope)
    which is not only the Patriarch of Rome, but also of Alexandreia
    or the authorities of Patriarchs (Papa included, he is a Patriarch) (named as Σταυροπηγιακα)
    to send a cross to put at foundation of a church building, simmilar to Roman empire emperors who send the first stone, the Anguli,
    and the symbolic Αγιον Μυρον (holy perfume) which is a kind of αυτοκεφαλον, of shelf indipedence but under apostolical continuity

    etc etc

    the story has
    first patriarchate Jerusalem
    then Antiocheia
    then Alexandreia
    then Rome
    4 in Number

    the new ones
    Rome gave birth to Nova Roma
    After this used the principle of Cardinals
    a title if I remember correct equal to Archbishop but with limited priviledges of a Patriarch etc etc
    Cardo is simmilar to Αrch- Αρχη-Αρχαι

    Nova Roma gave birth to
    Serbia
    Moscow Russia
    Romania

    lately Bulgariadeclare Patriarchate,

    Armenian church
    is another story,
    But is the third church that holds 'spears' Λογχη' at Jerusalem Holy Grave tomb
    which makes it a strong one historically

    Coptic church is another story mainly around Egypt,

    Other Historical churches,
    they are some in number
    around Egypt and Near-East Middle East
    like the Chaldean, Maronites, Melkite, etc etc
    the Arianism Monophysistism Nestorianism etc
    inherite a lot of theoritical problems there
    which with the expand and Dominion of Islam there
    created many churches and Dogmas there,
    in the eyes of a Western Christian,
    might be seen as peculiar

    Reformation and Protestantism
    that is another story away from this post,
    so I will not expand to that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I think history of Churches and religion should be teached at Schools,

    Wars happened from the ignorance and fear of people,

    Personally I believe that History of at least big and established religions should taught at Schools,
    Not the Dogma, but the history
    just to avoid situations that sprung from ignorance.

    for example the title of Papa (pope)
    which is not only the Patriarch of Rome, but also of Alexandreia
    or the authorities of Patriarchs (Papa included, he is a Patriarch) (named as Σταυροπηγιακα)
    to send a cross to put at foundation of a church building, simmilar to Roman empire emperors who send the first stone, the Anguli,
    and the symbolic Αγιον Μυρον (holy perfume) which is a kind of αυτοκεφαλον, of shelf indipedence but under apostolical continuity

    etc etc

    the story has
    first patriarchate Jerusalem
    then Antiocheia
    then Alexandreia
    then Rome
    4 in Number

    the new ones
    Rome gave birth to Nova Roma
    After this used the principle of Cardinals
    a title if I remember correct equal to Archbishop but with limited priviledges of a Patriarch etc etc
    Cardo is simmilar to Αrch- Αρχη-Αρχαι

    Nova Roma gave birth to
    Serbia
    Moscow Russia
    Romania

    lately Bulgariadeclare Patriarchate,

    Armenian church
    is another story,
    But is the third church that holds 'spears' Λογχη' at Jerusalem Holy Grave tomb
    which makes it a strong one historically

    Coptic church is another story mainly around Egypt,

    Other Historical churches,
    they are some in number
    around Egypt and Near-East Middle East
    like the Chaldean, Maronites, Melkite, etc etc
    the Arianism Monophysistism Nestorianism etc
    inherite a lot of theoritical problems there
    which with the expand and Dominion of Islam there
    created many churches and Dogmas there,
    in the eyes of a Western Christian,
    might be seen as peculiar

    Reformation and Protestantism
    that is another story away from this post,
    so I will not expand to that
    I agree with you. To a large extent the history of Europe is the history of Christianity. As you say, in a pluralistic society such as that of the U.S. it shouldn't be about indoctrination into dogma; it should be about teaching the history of western civilization, and you can't teach that without teaching the history of Christianity. You also can't teach the history of the Near East without teaching about it, as well as about Islam.

    Unfortunately, from what I can tell history is less and less a part of the curriculum. It's much more about teaching "pluralism". What's the point of teaching pluralism if you understand nothing of the past of any of these groups of people. It's just absurd.

    American television does a lot of "on the street" interviews with people not about ancient of medieval history, but about American history. It's only about a 300 year period, for goodness' sakes, and the level of ignorance is astounding. I literally can't watch these segments. I don't find it at all funny; it's sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    Islam - Catholic

    Language perspective is similar. Praying in Arabic and Latin. Turkey tried to change pray language as Turkish pray call(ezan), but it didn't succes. So both religion have same perspective in this case.

    Islam - Protestan

    There is no marriage ban

    Islam - Orthodox Christianity

    Maybe something with Sunni Islam/Orthodox Islam

    Hıdırellez and St. George day is common festival.

    Islam - Eastern Orthodox

    Especially, Eastern Orthodox christian who lives in Middle East are more similar with Islam then the others in community/cultural rules. It is effect of living side by side.

    and I know that there Christians who believe that Jesus was just a man and prophet as in Islam.

    but I don't see clear similarity between Islam and one Christianity branch.


    Its not only the fact that they live side by side what makes them similar. Its the fact that Islam is a much younger religion than Christianity. Its about 700 years younger I think. People who become Muslims belonged to Orthodox Christianity before they made the transition to Islam. So many Orthodox teachings were adopted to Islam. Is it a coincidence that Islam also accepts that very first people who appeared on earth were Eva and Adam? So that is why there is a striking similarity among both religions Islam and Orthodoxy. The only difference is that Christ speaks for Orthodoxy and Mohamed for Islam, but they say almost the same thing even though they lived different lives. Largely Islam was born out of Orthodox teachings with minor differences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Its not only the fact that they live side by side what makes them similar. Its the fact that Islam is a much younger religion than Christianity. Its about 700 years younger I think. People who become Muslims belonged to Orthodox Christianity before they made the transition to Islam. So many Orthodox teachings were adopted to Islam. Is it a coincidence that Islam also accepts that very first people who appeared on earth were Eva and Adam? So that is why there is a striking similarity among both religions Islam and Orthodoxy. The only difference is that Christ speaks for Orthodoxy and Mohamed for Islam, but they say almost the same thing even though they lived different lives. Largely Islam was born out of Orthodox teachings with minor differences.
    Can you please pick up a book on these subjects so that you don't make these kinds of egregious errors?

    There was no Orthodox Christianity when Islam began or took over the Middle East. There was only Christianity, albeit Christianity with slightly different rituals depending on the area. The schism which created orthodoxy dates to the Middle Ages and mainly concerned whether the Bishop of Rome was one among equals with the Patriarchs of the eastern rite churches or the PRIMATE or first among them. There was also a theological dispute described by Yetos in his thread, which would have no effect on anyone's behavior or attitudes. It's like the medieval arguments about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

    If you're a believing Muslim you believe the Koran is the inspired word of God. If you're not you probably believe the scholars who say Mohammed picked up bits and pieces of the basic beliefs of Jews and Christians and incorporated them into his new religion. There is nothing in the statements about Jesus and Mary in the Koran which are at all specific to Orthodox versus Roman Catholicism. I'd tell you to prove otherwise but you can't, which is why you haven't posted any proof for any of your other ridiculous claims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    Its not only the fact that they live side by side what makes them similar. Its the fact that Islam is a much younger religion than Christianity. Its about 700 years younger I think. People who become Muslims belonged to Orthodox Christianity before they made the transition to Islam. So many Orthodox teachings were adopted to Islam. Is it a coincidence that Islam also accepts that very first people who appeared on earth were Eva and Adam? So that is why there is a striking similarity among both religions Islam and Orthodoxy. The only difference is that Christ speaks for Orthodoxy and Mohamed for Islam, but they say almost the same thing even though they lived different lives. Largely Islam was born out of Orthodox teachings with minor differences.


    DUpidh

    That is the second Stupist thing I read in this Forum
    and the first is also by you in this Thread,


    So how Come Muslims come from Orthodox Christians at 600-800 AD
    when the schism started at 870 Ad with 'Photios schism' and completed at 1054 with the anathemas
    maybe at your Maths 600 is bigger than 900
    but in mine, NOT


    the most stupid think I heard,
    Orthodox and Catholics existed before 911 AD

    Just ignorance and stupidity

    For your information

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photian_schism

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism


    as for your information
    at 1054 the division Orthodox Catholic is this




    Now tell us how come Ortodox connected with Islam there
    since the area is already under Islamic domination

    Beside if you know the story of Hadji Bektas (Bektashi) and Alovites Turks
    then surely reecosinder what you talk about

    The Supremacy of Papa

    the supremacy of Papa starts from the times of Onoria and the decline of the West Roman empire,
    The emperrors of the West exit very weak after Huns and Goths,
    so someone should replace the emperor,
    the only one who could claim power since the emperror is not strong is a religious archon ,
    That is why Papa is the only Patriarch that has state and guard,
    and since no emperror in the West,
    Papa turn to East many times, in order to ask help for Rome,
    and there starts the race for supremacy, who should be more protected, or which patriarch the will is stronger to the emperror
    1 in jerusalem
    1 in Asia
    1 in Africa
    1 in the Roman empire (Europe)
    meaning who Patriarch must be considered as first priority by emperror,

    this ended By the creation of Carlomagneian state
    which I believe was designed and programmed so to create stability and a normal status at West.

    but later East Roman had problem with Bulgarians
    and the emperror choose Patriarch without asking Papa
    so that was a direct hit on Papa supremacy,
    it is called the Photios Schism by Western scholars


    something similar Hapened at East Roman but under different circumstances
    After the fall of Con/polis, Mohamet knew that he should find a new leader for the Byzantines,
    so he gave priviledges to Patriarch of Con\polis
    and the last work as the leader of the of Γενος (nation)
    the head of Rums the time of Ottomans was the Patriarch due to the authorities and priviledges given by Mohamet
    infact that is considered the smartest move that Mohamet did, even smarter than the conquest of Con\polis
    he created a political supreme leader frm the classs of religion, that he will be always a kind of prisoner,
    that is why patriarchate of Con/polis gave so many expels to rebels against Ottoman rule,
    who would follow an expeled one, all want to follow the blessed one
    Last edited by Yetos; 27-02-17 at 14:13.

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