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View Poll Results: Will Orthodox and Catholic Chrurch be unified in the future?

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Thread: Orthodoxy and Catholicism: From Separation to Unification

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Can you please pick up a book on these subjects so that you don't make these kinds of egregious errors?

    There was no Orthodox Christianity when Islam began or took over the Middle East. There was only Christianity, albeit Christianity with slightly different rituals depending on the area. The schism which created orthodoxy dates to the Middle Ages and mainly concerned whether the Bishop of Rome was one among equals with the Patriarchs of the eastern rite churches or the PRIMATE or first among them. There was also a theological dispute described by Yetos in his thread, which would have no effect on anyone's behavior or attitudes. It's like the medieval arguments about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

    If you're a believing Muslim you believe the Koran is the inspired word of God. If you're not you probably believe the scholars who say Mohammed picked up bits and pieces of the basic beliefs of Jews and Christians and incorporated them into his new religion. There is nothing in the statements about Jesus and Mary in the Koran which are at all specific to Orthodox versus Roman Catholicism. I'd tell you to prove otherwise but you can't, which is why you haven't posted any proof for any of your other ridiculous claims.
    I have not read the Koran but I have seen theological debates on You tube. Islamic's admit the Existence of Jesus and Mary, but they disagree if he was the son of God, or a earthly thing like all of us, who God chose to communicate his teachings. That's why Islamic's insist: There is no God but Allah. Which means Jesus was a prophet.
    I disagree with you when you say there was not Orthodox Christianity when Islam took over. Orthodox Christianity is the same like Christianity of East. Are YOU SAYING THERE WAS NOT Christianity IN THE East?.Christianity unified to a certain degree after the invention of printing machines. Before it has had numerous sects. Even today is not unified Christianity. Not all Christians agree that Jesus was born on Christmas day. I am not saying that rites of Orthodoxy and Islam are similar, but the ideology is strikingly similar. I may sound provocative but that how many scholars of theology think that Orthodoxy and Islam share large part of ideology, for the reasons I posted in previous parts. If curious you may discus the matter with impartial scholars of theology, and see what they have to say.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You have failed to produce links to statements by theologians which support your view. Now you claim that scholars support your view. Please provide the appropriate links, or admit that they don't exist and your statement was incorrect.

    As for the remainder of your post it's absolutely false. Are you aware that a good number of the churches in the East are in fact in communion with the Roman church and merely maintain a different liturgy?

    Where you have gotten the absurd idea that Eastern Christian women follow Muslim codes in dress other than out of fear of harassment and worse I have no idea.
    https://www.debate.org/debates/Ortho...n-many-ways/1/

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuPidh View Post
    I have not read the Koran but I have seen theological debates on You tube. Islamic's admit the Existence of Jesus and Mary, but they disagree if he was the son of God, or a earthly thing like all of us, who God chose to communicate his teachings. That's why Islamic's insist: There is no God but Allah. Which means Jesus was a prophet.
    I disagree with you when you say there was not Orthodox Christianity when Islam took over. Orthodox Christianity is the same like Christianity of East. Are YOU SAYING THERE WAS NOT Christianity IN THE East?.Christianity unified to a certain degree after the invention of printing machines. Before it has had numerous sects. Even today is not unified Christianity. Not all Christians agree that Jesus was born on Christmas day. I am not saying that rites of Orthodoxy and Islam are similar, but the ideology is strikingly similar. I may sound provocative but that how many scholars of theology think that Orthodoxy and Islam share large part of ideology, for the reasons I posted in previous parts. If curious you may discus the matter with impartial scholars of theology, and see what they have to say.
    First: never take what some random people on youtube say as gospel.

    Second: I'll say this as simply as possible once more and then that's it. THERE WERE NO ORTHODOX CATHOLICS IN THE NEAR EAST at the time of the Muslim conquest, just as there were none in eastern Europe. ALL CHRISTIANS EVERYWHERE AT THAT TIME BELIEVED BASICALLY THE SAME THINGS in terms of doctrine and theology, except for minor differences. THE MAJOR DIFFERENCES WERE LITURGICAL. THE SCHISM TOOK PLACE LATER.

    See:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism

    The major theological difference was over this clause in the Nicene Creed. The eastern Catholics wanted it to say only from the Father. That's it. It has to do with the Holy Spirit and has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Islam.

    "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,who proceeds from the Father ⟨and the Son⟩.Who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified."

    The other major difference had to do with the supremacy of the Pope, and there were other disputes over whether unleavened bread should be used at communion, and canonical differences having to do with the celibacy of regular parish priests. Monks in the eastern churches are, of course, supposed to be celibate. Of course, the language used in the liturgy was different.

    Again, absolutely nothing to do with Islamic doctrine or dogma. You have repeatedly been asked to link to articles by actual theologians or church historians. You haven't done so, and I can tell you why. They don't exist. Take it from someone who was force fed theology for forty-five minutes a day every school day for more than four years, and then took some theology courses later in life as well. There are consequences here for posting misinformation or refusing to provide documentation for absurd claims. This is your last warning.

    The one link which you provided is to a site which is so loaded with malware or other malicious software that my system won't let me access it. That should tell people everything they need to know. Infractions can also be given for that. Don't do it again.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Latin hasn't been used in Roman Catholic liturgy or prayer for decades, not since Vatican II.
    Thank you for update,

    After the WW2 - rising leftist less religious people in Europe, there aren't left to much thing left in Catholicism. Where are those good Latinized Christians?


    They have stayed in back, for reform. Now they are tring to do as Vatican 2 (1962) - Thanks again


    Similarly, the babies who died before baptist ceremony were wenting to Hell, but now, they are not. I remember, Pope statement when he was in Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    As for your second bolded comment, whatever those people claim they are, whatever they were born or raised, they're not Christians, and I include in that members of Unitarian churches. It's like saying you don't believe Mohammed is the Prophet, but you're still a Muslim.

    To be a Christian one has to believe in some version of the Nicene Creed. It's part of Roman Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Protestantism etc.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed


    That is too puritan idea and Mohammed example is not proper, I mean comparing about totally not believing and seeing as a just a prophet.

    But I see your point which is classical view.



  5. #30
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    @ Dupidh

    For your information
    the etymology of the word Papa is from the Greek Eatern pronouncation of the Aramaic Αββα Abba = Father

    so the modern word that orthodox use for dad is babba from Aramaic Antiocheian christian Abba
    the word that orthodox use for a priest as father of community is παππά pappά
    the change of tone give emphasis to the word as ULTIMATE FATHER (of faith).
    and was used not only at Rome but also at Alexandreia
    Even islam uses the same word as Abu

    even the word Catholic etymology is from Greek Καθ'ολικον =to all

    the things you should read first are the historical facts that all churches, scholars etc do not deny
    and then the fantastic conspiracy

    and I suggest to read this first about the Ecuminical congresses and counsils of THE ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC church

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecumenical_council

    and the heresies of the ecumenical counsil (global)

    the ones you read are confusing you in Purpose.

    scholars say this:
    ISLAM FOUND EASY WAY TO EXPAND AT THE LANDS OF MONOPHYSITES AND OTHER HERETIC
    the ones who were expelled by Global councils

    Scholars do not say :
    ISLAM FOUND EASY WAY TO EXPAND AT THE LANDS OF ORTHODOX
    WHO WAS CREATED 3 CENTURIES AFTER. IT IS ATOPON even to the most conspiracy theory


    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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