Religion Orthodoxy and Catholicism: From Separation to Unification

Will Orthodox and Catholic Chrurch be unified in the future?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • No

    Votes: 8 88.9%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    9
It can be with a very good cantor or chorus. Unfortunately where I grew up we had neither and the priest was old, did not have a good voice and hurried through the liturgy.

:LOL:
Hi @bigsnake.
I had experianced that.... at a very remote place far from Athens with less of dozen villagers, (Pindus)
The priest and the chanter very old, and the psalms full in discordance (false tone, paraphony, cacophony, etc)
About being hurried it wasn't the case, it was more than a couple and half hours. But the following is what surprised me and what surprized me
had to do with "me".

I am naturally believer-infidel case (for all that concerns about spiritual quests etc) and I work for many years in a "music house", (actually to the best and
the biggest in Greece if not Balkans) anyway my point actually is that my ears are very sensitive, even in my personal relations the voice of a person is very essential characteristic for me. That is about me and the sound, quite eclecticist and surelly not ecclesiastic.

Before I study (Applied and visual arts) I work at summers, at a byzantine iconography workshop for pocket money. That was a great experiance because
the laboratory and the personnel had very medieval arrangements in hierachical order , (assistants, pupils, craftsmen, archicraftsmen etc).
Allthough affiliated with the "culture" I would never consider me as a "true believer", and maybe am wrong but more or less that goes -maybe, as well- for the rest of the people there.
To summarize it with few words, not only my ears are sensitive but as well I am mot so warm fun of liturgies...

But one sunday, up on the high peak of unresistable and inevitable boredome ... the Apocalypse.
Maybe the reason was that it was too early in the morning and weather snowy. Maybe the candles and the fumes of the incenses...
Dont know.
Everything sound so perfect... It was the same false tones, the same priest , the same old men chanters, everything was the same.
Only I was different at that moment. Harmony is what I recall.
Harmony is not a word in a book, it is not even all the words in one book. For me Harmony -now- is all the books in a single word.
And that word is Agape (love).., and I simply just flourished of it... Sundelly.


I finished my metaphysical experiance with grand mama's sunday meal with lamb chops, spinach pie and "tsalafuti" (saracatsan sour youghurt)
Retsina wine and good smokes with grand-pa.

Amen...
 
The relation of Orthodoxy and Catholicism, it is the relation of a mother with her daughter.
-Unification?
Well if the daughter wish .., how the mother will ignore her beloved child.


He-hehe (I'm ready for negotiations...)
 
The relation of orthodox and Islam, if anything is obvious- except theological issues and matters- is might be partially and ralatively commonized with
the Music. The Eastern Music is more peculliar and more rich in some "colour" elements. (climaxes, routes, "ways")) instead the Western Do-Majore, La
minore scales, etc. Which is more "simple" (nothing is simple), clear lets say. I personally Instead prefer the Epirotan and blues pentatonic (more simple) for
the example. That nothing have to the quality of Music anyway. But the kind of the"architect" standards which every music builted in time.

So, the oriental "colours" in the religious chants is mostly what commons them . ( Islam and Orthodoxy,)
That colours were present before christianity even before iron Ages.
The pentatonic very deep older. Maybe long after we left the "tree", but close enough to the days we left he "cave". (melodies like lullabies kind of thing)
The Greek song is monophonic instead of the polyphonic rest of Balkans ,amazing all by the way
(How did I forget the Gregoriano rhythm which iam not affiliated but always mesmerized when I listen.)


The greek orthodox scenery has alot of common routes with Egypt and Syrolevantine and Anatolian influences, (of course and India at some extend through
them) but also have a brave chunk of the known antigue rituals as mysteries.
There is no organs, probably imitate customs similar of Jews (only human voice, more "direct"). I have the feeling that string instrumens is more
"Appolonian" cosmopolitan, bright and enlight in that sense, and the pneumatic instrumens (pipes, flutes), more Dionysian, dark, mystery and ecstatic, usually
accompanied with the local kind drum. An example: zampognas and tambourine at Tarrantela's, at south Italy and tsambouna and tumba or tumbaki at
Aegean islands and many others (zournas & defi, etc).

When I was kid it was moments I was afraid the priests with all that sounds, the smokes, the jingles, the spells... Quite creepy and scary.
The greeks "enjoy" big drama's and theatrale perfomance, in a way similar of the italians enjoy Opera.
They are some things, that some guys do/did them better.
Nothing to question about that.

(some music)
One theme, with two different versions from the same composer.
Indicative of the cosmopolitan music and not stricktly ecclesiastic, but the melos are following the orienal ways of that time
With Byzantine lyre (1:05)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99N7iIqcZus
With Kanon-aki (1:44)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WC7eKeDEjk


That;s how we do it Anthropology and Theology in three posts.
LoL guys. :)
 
Oh, damn it, I burned my food...for that posts
 
what to eat now "Manna" from the sky...

@bigsnake are there any apples left? (from the tree, you know...)
you devil...


 
what to eat now "Manna" from the sky...

@bigsnake are there any apples left? (from the tree, you know...)
you devil...



Panax, as a fellow Greek you know better than that. Apples are out of season, maybe some early peaches. Early karpouzia (watermelons) with feta cheese and some freshly baked bread under the clemataria (overhead grapevine) or bougainvillea.
bougainv.Monemv.jpg
 
The relation of orthodox and Islam, if anything is obvious- except theological issues and matters- is might be partially and ralatively commonized with
the Music. The Eastern Music is more peculliar and more rich in some "colour" elements. (climaxes, routes, "ways")) instead the Western Do-Majore, La
minore scales, etc. Which is more "simple" (nothing is simple), clear lets say. I personally Instead prefer the Epirotan and blues pentatonic (more simple) for
the example. That nothing have to the quality of Music anyway. But the kind of the"architect" standards which every music builted in time.

So, the oriental "colours" in the religious chants is mostly what commons them . ( Islam and Orthodoxy,)
That colours were present before christianity even before iron Ages.
The pentatonic very deep older. Maybe long after we left the "tree", but close enough to the days we left he "cave". (melodies like lullabies kind of thing)
The Greek song is monophonic instead of the polyphonic rest of Balkans ,amazing all by the way
(How did I forget the Gregoriano rhythm which iam not affiliated but always mesmerized when I listen.)


The greek orthodox scenery has alot of common routes with Egypt and Syrolevantine and Anatolian influences, (of course and India at some extend through
them) but also have a brave chunk of the known antigue rituals as mysteries.
There is no organs, probably imitate customs similar of Jews (only human voice, more "direct"). I have the feeling that string instrumens is more
"Appolonian" cosmopolitan, bright and enlight in that sense, and the pneumatic instrumens (pipes, flutes), more Dionysian, dark, mystery and ecstatic, usually
accompanied with the local kind drum. An example: zampognas and tambourine at Tarrantela's, at south Italy and tsambouna and tumba or tumbaki at
Aegean islands and many others (zournas & defi, etc).

When I was kid it was moments I was afraid the priests with all that sounds, the smokes, the jingles, the spells... Quite creepy and scary.
The greeks "enjoy" big drama's and theatrale perfomance, in a way similar of the italians enjoy Opera.
They are some things, that some guys do/did them better.
Nothing to question about that.

(some music)
One theme, with two different versions from the same composer.
Indicative of the cosmopolitan music and not stricktly ecclesiastic, but the melos are following the orienal ways of that time
With Byzantine lyre (1:05)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99N7iIqcZus
With Kanon-aki (1:44)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WC7eKeDEjk


That;s how we do it Anthropology and Theology in three posts.
LoL guys. :)

Having been to quite a few Jewish weddings, I can say that the cantor in a Greek church is the equivalent in tonality with the Jewish canting. I have not been in a mosque so I need some help here as to the Islamic chanting.
My experiences with going to the Greek church was that of an overcrowded church with too many lit candles sucking the oxygen out of the room and my own lungs to the point where I had to go outside to revive. Never mind the incessant droning on. We were forced to go to church every Sunday until the end of high school. For as much of an emphasis and a focus as the Orthodox church has been in the Balkans, Middle East, Armenia, Egypt you would think they would have some better hymns. They have had close to 2000 years, what are they waiting for?
 
Having been to quite a few Jewish weddings, I can say that the cantor in a Greek church is the equivalent in tonality with the Jewish canting. I have not been in a mosque so I need some help here as to the Islamic chanting.
My experiences with going to the Greek church was that of an overcrowded church with too many lit candles sucking the oxygen out of the room and my own lungs to the point where I had to go outside to revive. Never mind the incessant droning on. We were forced to go to church every Sunday until the end of high school. For as much of an emphasis and a focus as the Orthodox church has been in the Balkans, Middle East, Armenia, Egypt you would think they would have some better hymns. They have had close to 2000 years, what are they waiting for?

Yes, I think now we are heading to the core issue. Well at the periphery of the question it is quite difficult firstly to have a safe definition for"better hymns"...
What would be the quality standards for that? Actually at my previous post (sunday at church...) that was my sub-notion:

That at the end there is more than an superficial aesthetic enjoyment, but mostly hyperaesthetic mystic experiance.


Anyway, all the religions are "institutional" social schematisms and not available for occasional; or anything other changes.
(which inevitably at the
future will happen). That goes as well for the laws and our constitutions at some level, in our modern democracies.
The changes must be slow... If any of them must occur. Anything other is quite disturbance for the any "system".


You know I have the feeling that the christiam religions are Plato's "revenge".
If the "Idea" is true, is not receptive for any change. In short words.
But the big question -for me -is:
It is the church; religion; or dogmas; that must shape society and individuals; or the opposite?
The question is rhetorical of course.


 
Regarding the question. Absolutely not, Georgian church almost had the president excommunicated for so much as inviting the Pope to Tbilisi.

I just wish they'd both relax and stop forcing their dogma on people.
 
Panax, as a fellow Greek you know better than that. Apples are out of season, maybe some early peaches. Early karpouzia (watermelons) with feta cheese and some freshly baked bread under the clemataria (overhead grapevine) or bougainvillea.
View attachment 12235


it is end of strawberries,
full season of apricots, and cherries,
start of early peaches and Amaliada watermelons, and early plums (next week is full season)


0000012aa7890065b596f84f007f000000000001.a%20%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%BF%CF%80%CE%B1%CE%B3%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%B1.thumbnail.jpg



images




by the way,
this the Ematheia valley, when peaches are on flower status.
Pink valley

1222-400-x-600.jpg
 
The Tridentine Mass and other Latin rituals are still celebrated at designated churches; usually it's only one Mass out of the entire schedule however, and even in a place as populated as Long Island, there's only about four or five such churces. It's still beautiful, even if they don't have the benefit of a Bocelli singing.

At about 7 min:30 in you can hear the Kyrie Eleison. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwlU3jeUkFw
 
The Tridentine Mass and other Latin rituals are still celebrated at designated churches; usually it's only one Mass out of the entire schedule however, and even in a place as populated as Long Island, there's only about four or five such churces. It's still beautiful, even if they don't have the benefit of a Bocelli singing.

At about 7 min:30 in you can hear the Kyrie Eleison. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwlU3jeUkFw

Magnificent mass and church! I wonder how it would sound in a small village church though.
 
Magnificent mass and church! I wonder how it would sound in a small village church though.

The smallest village church in Italy is beautiful. My birth town has about 500 inhabitants in the walled village itself. There are some hundreds more outside the walls, but I wouldn't say it's more than 1500 people.

This is our church:
JPinKaO.png


f2MHr0F.png


They don't seem to have put one of our masses up on youtube.

This is a neighboring, equally small village. They did video a Mass. Unfortunately, the angle means you can't see the whole altar.
 
Then New York, especially at Christmas, is for you. The sacred music performed at St. Barts, St. Thomas', St. John the Divine, as well, of course, at St. Patrick's, is stupendous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TXqGoaSp-o


Sometimes, though, for me, the most transporting sacred music can be in a very intimate setting.


Also, another beautiful Corsican one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDZuPUA1vNE


If I lived in Toscana and could listen to the monks at Sant' Antimo all the time, maybe I would come back to the church.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GlaLNm3muI
 
Is the scaffolding gone, Angela?
 
Is the scaffolding gone, Angela?

The scaffolding is gone. The Cathedral was about to fall on everyone's heads, so they had to do a massive three years repair and restoration. One additional benefit is that now it's not freezing in winter, and they've cleaned the interior so that it looks as it was intended to originally.

It's faux Gothic, but still quite beautiful in its own way, I think.

stpatrickscathedral-christopherpostlewaite__large.jpg


exterior_sun_St_Patricks_Cathedral_Catholic_New_York_City_iStock__5_.jpg
 
The scaffolding is gone. The Cathedral was about to fall on everyone's heads, so they had to do a massive three years repair and restoration. One additional benefit is that now it's not freezing in winter, and they've cleaned the interior so that it looks as it was intended to originally.

It's faux Gothic, but still quite beautiful in its own way, I think.

stpatrickscathedral-christopherpostlewaite__large.jpg


exterior_sun_St_Patricks_Cathedral_Catholic_New_York_City_iStock__5_.jpg


Gothic rythm of architecture was always 'odd-strange' to my horizon positioning system when I am inside,
I always feel strange in a Gothic rythm temple,
I feel like I am in the forest, sourounded by big tall trees.
and beside me, behind the 'trees' are things hidden
I must admit though, that if the vertical elements are decorated and painted well.
these temples can be marvellous,
it is a style that always creates impressions, very bright, and plays strange games of light illusions,
tottaly different from the game of hide and seek, that light plays in a typical Roman court, a Basilica with thick brick walls.
 

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