Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Am I just seeing things?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger Second ClassVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Twilight's Avatar
    Join Date
    29-06-12
    Location
    Seattle, Washington
    Age
    25
    Posts
    882
    Points
    12,188
    Level
    33
    Points: 12,188, Level: 33
    Level completed: 34%, Points required for next Level: 462
    Overall activity: 1.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-U152-Z56-BY3957
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c7a

    Ethnic group
    15/32 British, 5/32 German, 9/64 Irish, 1/8 Scots Gaelic, 5/64 French, 1/32 Welsh
    Country: USA - Washington



    Am I just seeing things?

    Hello there, I've been looking at the ancient history of Haplogroup R's cousin; Q and for quite a while I haven't been coming to terms but notice that Haplogroup N entered Southern Siberia around about 12,000 BC around the time Native American crossed the bering strait to America. I'm quite curious to see if there is any archeological evidence and/or oral history depicting some sort of war or mixing of the Mammoth Hunter culture. Thanks ^_^.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered50000 Experience Points
    Aberdeen's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-11-13
    Posts
    1,838
    Points
    52,092
    Level
    70
    Points: 52,092, Level: 70
    Level completed: 68%, Points required for next Level: 458
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H4

    Ethnic group
    Scottish, English and German
    Country: Canada-Ontario



    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
    Hello there, I've been looking at the ancient history of Haplogroup R's cousin; Q and for quite a while I haven't been coming to terms but notice that Haplogroup N entered Southern Siberia around about 12,000 BC around the time Native American crossed the bering strait to America. I'm quite curious to see if there is any archeological evidence and/or oral history depicting some sort of war or mixing of the Mammoth Hunter culture. Thanks ^_^.
    I don't know about the timing for N, but it seems there were people in the Americas before 12,000 BC.

    http://csfa.tamu.edu/who.php

  3. #3
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    bicicleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    27-01-13
    Location
    Zwevegem, Belgium
    Posts
    5,382
    Points
    47,218
    Level
    67
    Points: 47,218, Level: 67
    Level completed: 20%, Points required for next Level: 1,132
    Overall activity: 54.0%


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
    Hello there, I've been looking at the ancient history of Haplogroup R's cousin; Q and for quite a while I haven't been coming to terms but notice that Haplogroup N entered Southern Siberia around about 12,000 BC around the time Native American crossed the bering strait to America. I'm quite curious to see if there is any archeological evidence and/or oral history depicting some sort of war or mixing of the Mammoth Hunter culture. Thanks ^_^.
    Q was a mammoth hunter, but mammoths went extinct. Q was in Alaska some 16000 years ago, and some 15000 years ago first Q found a way around the icecaps to enter America.
    N entered Siberia, I guess 13000 years ago, along with first pottery in Siberia, but they went west. Mammoths were allready extinct. I doubt that N ever killed 1 mammoth.

  4. #4
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,331
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    Q was a mammoth hunter, but mammoths went extinct. Q was in Alaska some 16000 years ago, and some 15000 years ago first Q found a way around the icecaps to enter America.
    N entered Siberia, I guess 13000 years ago, along with first pottery in Siberia, but they went west. Mammoths were allready extinct. I doubt that N ever killed 1 mammoth.
    Generally these are the dates when decline of mammuth population started. The last mammuth died as recent as 4 thousand years ago.

    Different woolly mammoth populations did not die out simultaneously across their range, but gradually went extinct over time. The last mainland population existed in the Kyttyk Peninsula of Siberia 9,650 years ago.[75] A small population of woolly mammoths survived on St. Paul Island, Alaska, until 6,400 years ago.[25][76][77] The last known population remained on Wrangel Island in the Arctic Ocean until 4,000 years ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolly_mammoth
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsTagger Second ClassVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Twilight's Avatar
    Join Date
    29-06-12
    Location
    Seattle, Washington
    Age
    25
    Posts
    882
    Points
    12,188
    Level
    33
    Points: 12,188, Level: 33
    Level completed: 34%, Points required for next Level: 462
    Overall activity: 1.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-U152-Z56-BY3957
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c7a

    Ethnic group
    15/32 British, 5/32 German, 9/64 Irish, 1/8 Scots Gaelic, 5/64 French, 1/32 Welsh
    Country: USA - Washington



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    Q was a mammoth hunter, but mammoths went extinct. Q was in Alaska some 16000 years ago, and some 15000 years ago first Q found a way around the icecaps to enter America.
    N entered Siberia, I guess 13000 years ago, along with first pottery in Siberia, but they went west. Mammoths were allready extinct. I doubt that N ever killed 1 mammoth.

    So was Q's cousin; Haplogroup R with all do respect, however I'm wondering if since Haplogroup N was not a mammoth hunting culture; sourced by Eupedia genetics, went to war with the mommoth hunting culture, if the Yennisean locals fled to North America and Haplogroup N warriors took Haplogroup slaves or what? I'm really curious to see what archeology has to say :) . http://www.cosmicelk.net/mammothhunters.htm

  6. #6
    Regular Member Achievements:
    3 months registered500 Experience Points

    Join Date
    17-08-18
    Posts
    49
    Points
    583
    Level
    6
    Points: 583, Level: 6
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 167
    Overall activity: 31.0%


    Country: Madagascar



    There is this text in wikipedia in y-dna N page: "The apparent dearth of haplogroup N-M231 amongst Native American peoples indicates that it spread after Beringia was submerged (Chiaroni 2009), about 11,000 years ago."

    What it actually says, is that:
    1. Bering strait submerged ~11 000 years ago.
    2. and that y-dna N went to Alaska LONG AFTER Beringia was submerged and NOT 11 000 years ago. Most probably only in last 1000-1500 years with chukchi who traveled to Alaska. I assume y-dna of N in chukchi is quite recent influx, so only after Chukchi received y-dna, they could deliver it across Bering strait.
    3. Hardly N even saw any mammoths, even if chinese still have myths of unicorn and that might be Elasmotherium - real animal, that grazed with mammoths, but most probably they just dig up those as dead animals. N most probably entered in Siberia, only when it was possible to enter it, as glaciers who blocked path to Siberia melted away. If you watch GoT, imagine, that on the side of Amur river starting from Baikal lake there was ice wall and it was inaccessible for NO and anyone else. Eastern side of sea was blocked by glaciers that entered ocean and produced icebergs and the only place that had gates to Siberia was in west around the place, where Yenisei River starts(Baikal lake) and it still have remnants of Q in Asia which were represented with modern Ket people(which also might have linguistical similarities with Dene - at least there is theory, that they have linguistical links), so it was blocked by Q on north side and R nomads in south side. And according to migration paths of N - Uralic migrated into Urals more westernly of Ket.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •