Politics To Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Slovens, Hungarians..:wasn't life under socialism better?

Epirus was is and will continue to be Archegonos Hellas.
Yes part of it unfortunately was grabbed by Greeks in the turn of century.
Will it be recovered or not remained to be seen. We need to keep the flame alive.
By the way I am an Epiriot and I am deeply offended to call me Greek.
 
Albania's muslin population according to,the last census is: Sunny Muslims about 57%, Bektashi muslin about 3% and the rest are Christians or Atheist.
My educated guess is that there are a lot of agnostics in Albania, Kosovo and Macedonia's Albanian population.
So among 60% of the population who declared themselves Muslim they did not say they are practicing Muslims,
they said they come from a Muslim family. Same is true for christian Albanians.
It was not true that Albania was the only christian country that become Muslim.
There were around 30% of Greek population who also become Muslim.
Athens, at the down of Greek revolution was Muslim majority. The only Christians in Athens were Arvanites.
They passed a law that forced all Muslim Greeks to convert to Christianity.
When I say Muslim Greeks I don't mean Turk colons in Greece, I mean ethnic Greeks that Greek was the only language they knew.
So, its unfair to say that Albanians were the only one becoming Muslim.

He did not say only Christian, he said Roman Catholic, and he added probably. So no need to be alarmed.
 
Epirus was is and will continue to be Archegonos Hellas.
We have discussed this topic in other forums
If you want, open another thread not to ruin the aim this thread was created
I have no desire to participate in it, but maybe someone else will be willing to debate the topic.
Please do not provoke, like you are doing with the above expression. It does not matter what you and me are saying.
i do not believe geek historians even when they are telling the truth which happens really rare.
The only history I read is the one that English speakers or German speakers write.
Not because they own the truth but most of the time they are liberated by nationalist lies of Ballkan pseudo historians.
 
We have discussed this topic in other forums
If you want, open another thread not to ruin the aim this thread was created
I have no desire to participate in it, but maybe someone else will be willing to debate the topic.
Please do not provoke, like you are doing with the above expression. It does not matter what you and me are saying.
i do not believe geek historians even when they are telling the truth which happens really rare.
The only history I read is the one that English speakers or German speakers write.
Not because they own the truth but most of the time they are liberated by nationalist lies of Ballkan pseudo historians.

you have already destroy it,

what connection had that thread with hate against greece, greeks and your Pseudo-Historia/hysteria, and you mention lies about Greeks,


is it part of the thread the lies you write Greeks?

Albania's muslin population according to,the last census is: Sunny Muslims about 57%, Bektashi muslin about 3% and the rest are Christians or Atheist.
My educated guess is that there are a lot of agnostics in Albania, Kosovo and Macedonia's Albanian population.
So among 60% of the population who declared themselves Muslim they did not say they are practicing Muslims,
they said they come from a Muslim family. Same is true for christian Albanians.
It was not true that Albania was the only christian country that become Muslim.
There were around 30% of Greek population who also become Muslim.
Athens, at the down of Greek revolution was Muslim majority. The only Christians in Athens were Arvanites.
They passed a law that forced all Muslim Greeks to convert to Christianity.
When I say Muslim Greeks I don't mean Turk colons in Greece, I mean ethnic Greeks that Greek was the only language they knew.
So, its unfair to say that Albanians were the only one becoming Muslim.

Arbanites who Arbanites,
in census of 1879 not even 50 years after revolution were 60 000 max at 1 600 000 pop, means max 0.04%
today by ethnologue 2011 are estimated 10 000 and max 150 000 from ancestor, which is 0.015%
comparing that After 1912 population of Greece doubled (Makedonia Thrace Epirus Dodecanese etc refuggees) is normal number then and today

all the rest are crup,

before WW2 there was 20% of Albanians Orthodox today only 7% what happened to them?
you burn their villages to the ground for who knows what time.
there was 10% Catholics which still are 10% catholics
there was 75% Muslim which drop to 59% cause most do not declare religion or declare atheists (ex-communist party!!!)

don't blame me,
you already destroy the thread by injuring your hate and poison and lies


if you want I post photo of that census.

Now can you tell under which law Greek muslims forced to baptize Orthodox?
or you seen it in Albanian TV?
the Greek revolution has 2 major words, Μεμετ (mehmet, mohatet muslim, Islam follower)
and Giaour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giaour

all the rest you say is like documents about UFO, only even in thread about Poles Czechs and Slovacs you inject your poison.
I know it hearts that your ancestors denied ethnicity and religion for Vallavan's Pasha and his wealth
 
European values, human rights and freedom are great civilization achievements.
The pride of people of Europe and European civilization.
Glad to hear that.

Unfortunately some parts of Europe were long under the rulers of different views and apprehensions.

While the rest of Europe was developed, European Balkan peoples, especially Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs were under Ottoman Islamic state and Sharia law.
If you want understand this, you have to understand what it means to be non-Muslim under Sharia legal system.

It is not just a second-class citizen, or someone who pays tax for life (jizya), it is someone who has no rights or hope.
Sharia law for non-Muslim has no human rights and freedom, only taxes, obedience and hope for mercy, but rulers can be very arrogant and cruel, and there is no grace, and very tragic and sad fate for non-Muslim.

Balkan Christian nation have a proverb: Islamic judge sues, Islamic judge makes your judgement.
There’s no human rights LeBrok, you’re left to the his mercy and wantonness.
Do not you wish anyone to be in that situation.

Ottoman Empire was an Islamic state, good for Muslims.

Interestingly, what happened to the Albanians, while the Christian peoples of the Balkans, Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs and others, have suffered under Sharia law.
Albanians after a period of polytheism received Christianity and were mostly Roman Catholics.
But when the Ottoman Empire spread and included areas inhabited by ethnic Albanians, it took place something not many expected, what in the book History of Islam writes Thomas Arnold.

Converting to Islam Albanians began to enjoy all privileges as Muslims, among other things, to rule over the powerless and the oppressed Christian Balkan peoples.
Albanians have become the spearhead of Jihad and the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans.

If you want to know the fate of the Balkan European nations, it is the best to read about the life of Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs under Islamic Ottoman rule.
When you read a little more you can understand contemporary events and why the European Balkan nations are afraid from Greater Albania (conquer territories four states), a new Ottoman Empire, Oropba, Islamic state and Sharia law.
Unfortenatly Ike was right, creating ISIS and drawing map of the new Caliphate which even includes the territory of Slovakia and Austria (in another occasion I will explain you if you wish to know) introduce fear in the Balkan European nations.

Do not forget, once in eastern Albania and in European part of Turkey lived Bulgarians, now they’re gone, once the entire Aegean coast of Turkey and northern Epirus (today’s south Albania) was inhabited by Greeks, now they’re gone, it was less than 100 years.
I never meant that we shouldn't be vigilant and should stand on guard for our freedoms, democracy and civilization in general. It doesn't matter for me if the thread comes from ISIS, other muslim terrorists, christian fundamentalists, Spanish Inquisition or Putin's Russia.
Having said that, I don't think we should be too worried about Albanian Muslims or few of them turning jihadists. There are just few among few million of normal and tolerant Albanians. Such rogue elements exist not only in Albania, and I'm sure we could find few Serbian volunteers helping Russian separatists in Ukraine. Ike would go too, if only he wasn't chained to his computer and internet. ;) There are German revisionists, and Russian nazi, but they are few and between. Not enough to change the world and take our freedoms away. We should talk about them but without a panic.
What I'm saying is that you are demonizing Albanian Muslims way too much and blaming them for historical cruelty over Balkans. I'm sure the new generation of Albanians has nothing to do with sins of grandfathers.


For short time, in seventeenth century, for one generation Albanians change religion and converted to Islam in large numbers.
Grandparents or parent could remain Christians, but young Albanians have embraced Islamic religion.
Probably the islamization of Albanians is among the fastest in history, and it was voluntary, and Albanians are probably only ex Roman Catholic nation that has massively embraced Islam.
It might mean that Albanians are not very religious in general, and didn't care much in what religion they should live in. They embraced it fast when there was right climate for it, and they can drop it fast when not needed. This is a good sign, and fundamentalists shouldn't be able to find much of fertile ground there. Another good sign is huge participation of Albanians on Eupedia, traveling the world, speaking english and talking about many subjects but how great islam is (unlike occasional posters from Arab countries talking only about their great religion.



I firmly believe in European unity and power of Europe, Yugoslav slogan “brotherhood and unity” can be good and for Europe, although that does not understand me wrong I have nothing against America, China and other non-Europeans countries, and I believe in human goodness, and think good about the people of Africa, Middle East, Asia etc.
I'm optimistic too, and giving a chance people will show mostly their good side.
 
No, LeBrok, you know that I love discuss with you, an it is always constructional discussion.
And you know, anyone who have sympathy for Tito and Partisan movement can not be a nationalist.


...
Nobody here has anything against Albania.

But Greater Albania or Natural Albania, nevertheless, occupies big parts of FRY Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Greece.

And things are more complex.

Because in that creation can be applied Sharia law for members another nations, Atheists, Christian people etc.

And it is only one phase toward new Ottoman Empire on the Balkans and beyond, or Oropba.
...
I believe in goodness and human nature is basically good. I'm optimist for mankind, people have the power and ability to overcome problems and difficulties. I have a great opinion of the peoples of Africa, Middle East and Asia, and generally about people. Mankind is general has a postive energy. I am convincied that when for thirty-forty years ago we discuss, that we will talk about completely different things, it is possible about flights to other planets, and certainly you would like visit the Moon. Mars and so on, I too.

What I meant was that you suddenly jumped into religion fundamentalist subject just to degrade opponent, even though the discussion was about something else. This was the hit below the belt.
 
Interestingly, what happened to the Albanians, while the Christian peoples of the Balkans, Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs and others, have suffered under Sharia law.
Albanians after a period of polytheism received Christianity and were mostly Roman Catholics.
But when the Ottoman Empire spread and included areas inhabited by ethnic Albanians, it took place something not many expected, what in the book History of Islam writes Thomas Arnold.

For short time, in seventeenth century, for one generation Albanians change religion and converted to Islam in large numbers.
Grandparents or parent could remain Christians, but young Albanians have embraced Islamic religion.
Probably the islamization of Albanians is among the fastest in history, and it was voluntary, and Albanians are probably only ex Roman Catholic nation that has massively embraced Islam.

Converting to Islam Albanians began to enjoy all privileges as Muslims, among other things, to rule over the powerless and the oppressed Christian Balkan peoples.
Albanians have become the spearhead of Jihad and the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans.

If you want to know the fate of the Balkan European nations, it is the best to read about the life of Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs under Islamic Ottoman rule.
When you read a little more you can understand contemporary events and why the European Balkan nations are afraid from Greater Albania (conquer territories four states), a new Ottoman Empire, Oropba, Islamic state and Sharia law.
Unfortenatly Ike was right, creating ISIS and drawing map of the new Caliphate which even includes the territory of Slovakia and Austria (in another occasion I will explain you if you wish to know) introduce fear in the Balkan European nations.

Do not forget, once in eastern Albania and in European part of Turkey lived Bulgarians, now they’re gone, once the entire Aegean coast of Turkey and northern Epirus (today’s south Albania) was inhabited by Greeks, now they’re gone, it was less than 100 years.

There was never any mass conversion of Albanians to Islam, at least not anymore then there was a mass conversion of Greeks and Serbs. However the indifference of Albanians to the Muslim population compared to the Greeks and Serbs who forced Orthodoxy and constantly exchanged populations with Turkey to preserve their homogeneity, combined with the assimilation of many Orthodox Albanians in neighboring lands have yielded the religious distribution that we see today. That's the end of it.

The Ottoman Empire, whether you like it or not, was fairly tolerant when it came to religious views. This is not my claim, this is something historians more or less agree on. The Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs certainly had it better during the empire than the Albanians did. Were you ever prohibited from teaching your language? No you were not.

I understand that the separation of religion from ethnicity is a very baffling concept to you, but this is what we believe in. The idea of Greater Albania is disturbing to neighbors and this is understandable, but it does not stand on any religious ground. Purely ethnic. The Ottoman Empire is dead and it will stay so, of course the same should be said about the Byzantine Empire. ISIS is just a glorified gang that can be put down easily as long as there is will. There is certainly no sympathy for them where I come from. The radical elements are always there, but hey, why don't you look at your own country? I'm sure you will find them there too.

The Bulgarians are still there, there is a village near my town where the language is still preserved. But as is to be expected, populations assimilate faster when separated from their home country. The Greeks of Epirus are also still there, in small numbers as they always were despite what they like to pretend. Of course when your religion is your ethnicity then its easy to squeeze a lot of people in the same bag. All minorities in Albania have lived in peace and have not been disturbed. Not even assimilation has been attempted on them, because Albanians are very fanatical about blood relation and clan ties.
 
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There was never any mass conversion of Albanians to Islam, at least not anymore then there was a mass conversion of Greeks and Serbs. However the indifference of Albanians to the Muslim population compared to the Greeks and Serbs who forced Orthodoxy and constantly exchanged populations of Turkey to preserve their homogeneity, combined with the assimilation of many Orthodox Albanians in neighboring lands have yielded the religious distribution that we see today. That's the end of it.

The Ottoman Empire, whether you like it or not, was fairly tolerant when it came to religious views. This is not my claim, this is something historians more or less agree on. The Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs certainly had it better during the empire than the Albanians did. Were you ever prohibited from teaching your language? No you were not.

I understand that the separation of religion from ethnicity is a very baffling concept to you, but this is what we believe in. The idea of Greater Albania is disturbing to neighbors and this is understandable, but it does not stand on any religious group. Purely ethnic. The Ottoman Empire is dead and it will stay so, of course the same can be said about the Byzantine Empire. ISIS is just a glorified gang that can be put down easily as long as there is will. There is certainly no sympathy for them where I come from. The radical elements are always there, but hey, why don't you look at your own country? I'm sure you will find them there too.

The Bulgarians are still there, there is a village near my town where the language is still preserve. But as is to be expected, populations assimilate faster when separated from their home country. The Greeks of Epirus are also still there, in small numbers as they always were despite what they like to pretend. Of course when your religion is your ethnicity then its easy to squeeze a lot of people in the same bag. All minorities in Albania have lived in peace and have not been disturbed. Not even assimilation has been attempted on them, because Albanians are very fanatical about blood relation and clan ties.

Yenitsari Blood taxation, was that fair to you?

As muslims you did not gave your males to serve to Ottoman's army

who lived in peace in Albania?
even at WW2 you burn christian villages.
the population of Orthodox, was 20% before WW2 and now is 7%, what happened?
In Durres once spoke Greek, now only in very very south you hear some Greek.

the peace in Albania came after WW2.
no matter I dislike him Hodza and his previous Vlore manage to stabilize their country and turn them to modern values and prosperity.
 
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There is so much hatred in you Yetos that you cannot think clearly. There is one thing that those who claim that know anything about Albanians, should know that being Albanian comes first, religion is sometimes second or even further down the list. I am sick and tired of Garricks repeated attempts to paint us as "filthy" muslims since the hatred is quite transparent. Thinking of your group as of angels and satanizing others is simply not mature.

One cannot simply judge one whole nation based on some criminals and thugs. All nations have their black sheeps. And, please stop spreading your hatred, it has started to become boring.
 
There is so much hatred in you Yetos that you cannot think clearly. There is one thing that those who claim that know anything about Albanians, should know that being Albanian comes first, religion is sometimes second or even further down the list. I am sick and tired of Garricks repeated attempts to paint us as "filthy" muslims since the hatred is quite transparent. Thinking of your group as of angels and satanizing others is simply not mature.

One cannot simply judge one whole nation based on some criminals and thugs. All nations have their black sheeps. And, please stop spreading your hatred, it has started to become boring.

you did not said the same to your compatriots, why you referering to me?
 
What I meant was that you suddenly jumped into religion fundamentalist subject just to degrade opponent, even though the discussion was about something else.

This is right discussion because communism was objectively in expansion in the XX century, and part of Europe has experienced it. But communism is gone, and the problems of the twenty-first century in Europe are not communism or similar, new time bring new problems.

You think that Islam is religion, yes it is religion but only small part. Islam is political and legal system, sociocultural system, includes all from male-female relations to the organization of the whole society. Islamic thinkers emphasize that Islam is totality, and for life of human being, and for whole society. In this regard communism is not as broad in scope as Islam.

And there is another important thing. Islam is mission. Mission of Islam is: Whole world Caliphate. In other words when one area becomes predominant Muslim, it goes on to other areas, until one day entire world becomes Muslim.

Peoples of East and Southern Europe who lived under socialism, tomorrow can live in Islamic society under Sharia law. And Western Europe too. This is real option. And I'm not someone who intimidate, on the contrary, I'm just saying what is the possible option, and I will explain why, saying arguments. Even, I have nothing against Islam (you could see that I am not anti-communist, though personally I don't like communism). Maybe tomorrow most of Europe embrace Islam as Albanians once did.

We don't know how European society will change. No one is a prophet. And Islam is very real option for Europe of XXI century. (to be continued...).
 
Such rogue elements exist not only in Albania, and I'm sure we could find few Serbian volunteers helping Russian separatists in Ukraine. Ike would go too, if only he wasn't chained to his computer and internet. ;)

This is exactly what your ambiguous agenda is about. BTW, thanks for mentioning my name, cause I would otherwise skip this valuable demystification.
 
All minorities in Albania have lived in peace and have not been disturbed. Not even assimilation has been attempted on them, because Albanians are very fanatical about blood relation and clan ties.

Yet, Kaplan Resuli Burovich claims very different:


"When Albania is proclaimed and recognised as an independent nation (1912-1913) its population numbered 700,000 of which hardly 50% were Albanians, while the other half was made up of Vlachs (around 20%), “Slavs” (Macedonians, Serbs, Montenegrins, around 15%),Greeks (around5%) and others (Turks, Roms, Cherkesians, Italians, Jews and others, around 10%)."

 
A Montenegrin that was sentenced by the communist regime. This person can't possibly be biased.
 
A Montenegrin that was sentenced by the communist regime. This person can't possibly be biased.

No, no, no, why don't you claim him Albanian as you did before he found out he wasn't one :)

And he was sentenced to 43 years by Albanian communist for saying things that he shouldn't have. And why did Albanian nationalist try to assassinate him couple of times?
 
Some people just don't know how to respond to blatant lies so they take the easy way.
 
Am I to understand that this was a response to my last sentence and that you think that killing Resuli would be an easy way out for those who dislike his words, and have no better way of confronting him?
 
That is becoming a serious regional problem.

ISIS Orobpa and Ottoman areas in South/East Europe, what's different. Anyone can view the map. From Bulgaria to Austria and Slovakia.

And when Turkish leader Erdogan says: "Turkey is Kosovo, Kosovo is Turkey" it is same context.

www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/10/erdogan-kosovo-turkey.html

Neo Ottoman rule, or ISIS rule is same. It is Islamic rule.

Sharia law again, after liberation from the Ottomans, two world wars, socialism etc... From this perspective it seems that Latin America is a continent of happy people.
 
@ LeBrok


Glad to hear that.


I never meant that we shouldn't be vigilant and should stand on guard for our freedoms, democracy and civilization in general. It doesn't matter for me if the thread comes from ISIS, other muslim terrorists, christian fundamentalists, Spanish Inquisition or Putin's Russia.
Having said that, I don't think we should be too worried about Albanian Muslims or few of them turning jihadists. There are just few among few million of normal and tolerant Albanians. Such rogue elements exist not only in Albania, and I'm sure we could find few Serbian volunteers helping Russian separatists in Ukraine. Ike would go too, if only he wasn't chained to his computer and internet. ;) There are German revisionists, and Russian nazi, but they are few and between. Not enough to change the world and take our freedoms away. We should talk about them but without a panic.
What I'm saying is that you are demonizing Albanian Muslims way too much and blaming them for historical cruelty over Balkans. I'm sure the new generation of Albanians has nothing to do with sins of grandfathers.


It might mean that Albanians are not very religious in general, and didn't care much in what religion they should live in. They embraced it fast when there was right climate for it, and they can drop it fast when not needed. This is a good sign, and fundamentalists shouldn't be able to find much of fertile ground there. Another good sign is huge participation of Albanians on Eupedia, traveling the world, speaking english and talking about many subjects but how great islam is (unlike occasional posters from Arab countries talking only about their great religion.



I'm optimistic too, and giving a chance people will show mostly their good side.


You say:
"I'm sure the new generation of Albanians has nothing to do with sins of grandfathers".

Can you tell me what are this sins of our grandfathers, pls?
If you do not accept to explain, i have the all the right to think that you have an antialbanian agenda.
Thank you.
 
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