Guessing Thread-People Who Have Fooled You

[Angela]

I always thought Armand Assante (irish-italian) looks extremely spanish, but actually I don't know really why I'm thinking this. I could be wrong.

He played a Cuban rather convincingly, I thought, in a movie I very much liked, but then there are a few Cubans who, perhaps because of the various sources of European immigration to the island, give me an Italian, or more precisely, a Sicilian vibe, but overall the whole nose area on Assante just doesn't look that Iberian to me. I suppose the way I see it is that there are people who, because they are southern European, can "fit" in either the Iberian peninsula or Italy. Others, because of certain distinctive traits, "fit" better in one or the other. That's sort of the point of my thread...these things are fluid, ancient common ancestry plays a part, there is overlap, especially between neighboring countries, and also chance recombination has a part to play, and so you can get some very unexpected results as well. You just can't put people into these boxes and make these dogmatic statements.

Assante played Napoleon as well, who was a Corsican of Tuscan and Ligurian descent, and I thought it was decent casting. A lot of these Irish/Italian mixes are Irish/Southern Italan or Irish/Sicilian mixes, and to me, they can wind up looking rather northern Italian. It's born out on the genetics side too, although I'm fully aware that the alleles measured for ancestry are "junk DNA" and I don't think they include the few percentage points of the genome that code for "appearance". Anyway, I saw many mixes on 23andme of Sicilians with Brits who came out Northern Italian or Tuscan. It's just that no one, particularly in the U.S., seems able to recognize the kind of looks that can be found in northern Italy and Tuscany.

Oh, to go back to Cubans for a minute. The handsome Andy Garcia plays Italians often, and it's not jarring, although I wouldn't ever guess him as Italian if I didn't know his background. . This Cuban, on the other hand, fooled me. I thought he was Sicilian when I first saw him.

Here's another Italian/Irish actor...Nicholas Cage. I don't think he looks Iberian either.

 

[Angela]

I have a cousin with the same expression and face structure of gandy, and he is also as ha dsome and tal, as him; only he his darker of skin and of hair color (his mother, the sister of my father is very dark skinned complexed, a tone darker than hummel; his father has the same face structure as gandy and the same nose type; my cousin took the color of his mother and the face structure of his father; he's full tuscan bytheway.. but atypical.. he looks greek, my aunt is very atypical for skin pigmentation in tuscany, my father is a bit less atypical, but my father look is ore common in southern italy)

This model popped into my mind, and he's indeed southeast European...a Greek...Marios Lekkas. Some similarity?

Maybe Alexis Papas a bit too?

 

[oreo_cookie]

^ Those two Greeks above could actually pass as Iberian. I have seen them posted on other sites and I thought they might have been Spanish, until I found out they were Greek.

I don't think Andy Garcia looks "typically" neither Spanish nor Sicilian, but rather southern French. As for Nestor Carbonell, he looks like someone I know in person who is of Ashkenazi Jewish background.

David Gandy also looks like Raoul Bova, an Italian actor.

 

[Angela]

^ Those two Greeks above could actually pass as Iberian. I have seen them posted on other sites and I thought they might have been Spanish, until I found out they were Greek.

I'm breathlessly awaiting pictures of Iberians who look like Alexis Papas and Marios Lekkas. I'm not saying it can't happen, as we're talking about people who are all southern Europeans after all, but it certainly isn't a look common in Iberia, and I've been in most of it. Nor is France crawling with men who look like Andy Garcia.

Just because people share certain pigmentation traits doesn't mean they look alike. That's a common mistake that people make who have never lived in southern Europe.

From the admittedly limited exposure I've had to phenotype discussions on "anthrofora", they're absolute rubbish, written by Americans who don't have a clue what they're talking about.

David Gandy also looks like Raoul Bova, an Italian actor.

[/QUOTE]

David Gandy doesn't look very much like Raoul Bova, in my opinion. The main resemblance is a superficial one based on coloring. David Gandy is much more brutal looking...devastatingly attractive, but still brutal looking. As for Bova, when God finished with him, he said...that's it, I can't do any better. :grin:

As young men...

Later in life...

If you can't see the difference, a job in advertising probably isn't in the cards for you.

As for Nestor Campbell, I could buy that some Sephards might look like him, but I've never seen a single Ashkenazi man who looks like him.

 

[julia90]

Angie harmon doesn't look iberian. She looks fully greek.. (i've been in greece last summer)

 

[julia90]

Yes...gandy face is south estern influenced.. look as thot greek models.. the same face structure. Some greek grand parent?

 

[oreo_cookie]

I'm breathlessly awaiting pictures of Iberians who look like Alexis Papas and Marios Lekkas. I'm not saying it can't happen, as we're talking about people who are all southern Europeans after all, but it certainly isn't a look common in Iberia, and I've been in most of it. Nor is France crawling with men who look like Andy Garcia.

I don't understand why you can't say the same thing without an attitude. I feel like you're going to jump through the computer screen and attack me.

Anyway, to my eyes both of them pass as Spanish, but I guess I would say that they fit better in Italy.

As for Nestor Carbonell, I could show you photos of the guy I know who looks like him (who is Ashkenazi) but I have to convert the links of the photo first.

Yes...gandy face is south estern influenced.. look as thot greek models.. the same face structure. Some greek grand parent?

I think he looks at least as much central Italian as Greek. Apart from some looking more Balkan, I don't think central and southern Italians differ very much from Greeks.

 

[Angela]

I don't understand why you can't say the same thing without an attitude. I feel like you're going to jump through the computer screen and attack me.

Anyway, to my eyes both of them pass as Spanish, but I guess I would say that they fit better in Italy.

As for Nestor Carbonell, I could show you photos of the guy I know who looks like him (who is Ashkenazi) but I have to convert the links of the photo first.



I think he looks at least as much central Italian as Greek. Apart from some looking more Balkan, I don't think central and southern Italians differ very much from Greeks.

You're being far too sensitive. Since my "tone" disturbs you, however, I will modulate my caustic "attitude" toward you in the future, or at least plaster my posts with simileys to more accurately reflect my actual "tone". The fact remains that I don't find your observations at all accurate, which is no doubt because like many posters on so called anthrofora, you lack experience with the people you are "classifying". And if we are to discuss being offended, I find it offensive that people who have never been to my native country, or have spent two weeks there, presume to plaster their nonsensical pronouncements on what we look like and whom we resemble all over the toxic anthrofora that pollute the internet.

To return to the topic, your comment lumping all central and southern Italians together with Greeks makes no sense to me. Of course there is some overlap, but there are distinctions as well, distinctions that are very apparent to the people in question.

Just in terms of the Tuscans, although I'm not sure you meant to include them, because their genetics are distinct from those of the people in Lazio or Abruzzo for example, there are a number of looks, some of which, like the following, are not, to my knowledge, very common in Greece.

You can click to enlarge...
View attachment 6400

Neither do these uber Romans look very Greek to me...

If you ever watch The Godfather again, you might want to note the scene where Michael sees Appollonia, apt name, for the first time, and is hit by a colpo di fulmine. She is described by his companion as having a beauty more Greek than Italian, which indeed is the case.

 

[julia90]

Yes, those with the greek look in native tuscan.. are outliers.. like my cousin.

 

[oreo_cookie]

If you ever watch The Godfather again, you might want to note the scene where Michael sees Appollonia, apt name, for the first time, and is hit by a colpo di fulmine. She is described by his companion as having a beauty more Greek than Italian, which indeed is the case.

She was from Messina, no? And the movie took place in Palermo? If so, this might be a reference to the fact that people in eastern Sicily look more Greek than those in Palermo. I know that people I have met from Palermo have said they perceive people from places like Messina to look Greek.

 

[Ua'Ronain]

I tend to lurk on the forums and am always stumped by threads such as this. I tend to blame it on the fact I am an American and where I come from is indeed the classic melting pot area. Irish, Italian, German, Polish, Mexican, English, French, countless Native American tribes and the more exotic Korean are all pretty well mixed here. When I see the images posted I just see people who look like everyone else from where I am from. Olive skin to pale complexion and the whole myriad of noses, hair color and textures are normal here. I could not begin to take part of a game such as this as every image posted just looks like a normal American next door to me

 

[Angela]

I tend to lurk on the forums and am always stumped by threads such as this. I tend to blame it on the fact I am an American and where I come from is indeed the classic melting pot area. Irish, Italian, German, Polish, Mexican, English, French, countless Native American tribes and the more exotic Korean are all pretty well mixed here. When I see the images posted I just see people who look like everyone else from where I am from. Olive skin to pale complexion and the whole myriad of noses, hair color and textures are normal here. I could not begin to take part of a game such as this as every image posted just looks like a normal American next door to me

You're quite correct. Things are very different in America. I used to think it was more like a "stew", with all the ingredients keeping their "integrity", but as time passes I think it is indeed more of a true "melting pot". In my own family of 34 first cousins only a handful married Italians; most have either married people of Irish descent or true American "mutts", but we have quite a few Jewish relatives now, a Cuban, a Korean, and one African-American.

Things can be very different in Europe, where population flows have affected one area but not another, and people have lived separated from one another for thousands of years. Again, in my own case, my family has lived in the same area, marrying only with people in the general vicinity, for five hundred years that I can document, and probably for much longer indeed.

It's just a very imperfect reflection of population genetics. The point of this particular thread was that even in Europe one shouldn't take stereotypes about phenotype quite so seriously. There's variation in even quite homogenous looking countries. The only time I get annoyed is when I think it's being used by non-natives using mainly internet photos to make some greater, usually nefarious point, and who are known for doing so on many anthrofora. Other than that, it's meant to be a harmless parlor game.

 

[Engel]

Angela you have a good translator, but the guy in the hat can easily be mistaken for greek

 

[Ike]

Ok, now without makeup and Photoshop

 

[Angela]

Angela you have a good translator, but the guy in the hat can easily be mistaken for greek

Translator?

Not to me. And you get two demerits! The guy in the hat? How can anyone not recognize Marcello Mastroianni!!?? :shocked: I will forgive you on account of your no doubt extreme youth.

L'amant de reve as Paris Match called him.
One of the most iconic screen images of all time...La Dolce Vita

He held onto his looks almost until the very end. I've always thought a big part of his appeal was that he always seemed to be unaware of his looks, and slightly bemused as to why all these women obsessed over him. That and the fact that he wasn't afraid to be vulnerable and funny and to poke fun at his own and other men's absurdities.

 

[Angela]

Ok, now without makeup and Photoshop

Goodness, you went to all the trouble to find this picture? The major difference I see is that he's very young here and hasn't yet grown into his exceptionally strong features. That, and either his hair has darkened, or he now dyes it. Whatever the case, I'll grant you that he looks much better with darker hair, but then I personally think that's true for most people, as it provides a contrast which highlights the features.

Regardless, all the potential was there, which is why agents pounced as soon as they saw him. Certain faces are just made for the camera.

 

[Angela]

Ok, now without makeup and Photoshop

Ike, did you think you had found a picture of David Gandy as a young man? It's not. It's a picture of Marios Lekkas, a Greek model.

This is him in a Ralph Lauren ad when he's older...

This is David Gandy when he was young...

 

[Ike]

No, I was posting a picture of Marios Lekkas, and it was no trouble at all.

 

[Angela]

Well see, this is why such short cryptic posts can lead to such misunderstanding.

A picture of Lekkas at about the same age was already posted upthread for the proposition that he bore some resemblance to David Gandy as an adult, so it didn't make sense that a virtually duplicate picture would be posted.

Also, no picture of Lekkas as a model was ever posted, so your statement that this was a non-photo shopped or made up version didn't seem applicable when speaking of him. It did seem applicable to David Gandy.

 

[Ike]

I don't know who David Ghandy is, nor I did understand that this was a thread exclusively about him. It starts as "people who had fooled you", and in first post I few different faces. Someone assumed that it was D.Ghandi in the picture I've posted, I don't know why, and it doesn't matter anyway because it's of no importance for the message I tried to put out.

I don't know who any of these people are and I just typed in Google the last name that I saw (which was Marios Lekkas) and laughed my ass off when I saw how these guys look naturally. After seeing the real and groomed/appropriately lightened/photoshoped Lekkas, I'm saying that these "processed" pictures can't be used for anthropo analysis.