Roman Descent in South Germany?

my opinion is that the celtic element (mixed with less important neolithic near-easterners + mesolithical archaic people, absorbed by them in some way) is the most weighty in SW Germany of today beside the genuine germanic elements - but it does not exclude some influences of Roman occupation (I think in Mainz, based upon old STR surveys that don't confirm nor infirm the SNPs) - but what kind of "Romans" were they? Ligurians and other Italy old populations involved in Roma expansion, or true Romans of Latium? I 've no science based answer only good sense -
concerning these last ones, they in fine were a mix of genuine Italics with other close I-Eans + precedent population of North Italy + precedent populations of S-Italy: we can suppose Y-R1b was strong but uneasy to distinguish from the Celtic Y-R1bs, + a lot of Y-J2 and Y-G2 and appreciable amount of Y-E1B: what surprising here? Romans were no more the pure Danau-Croatia tribes of before -

other opinion of mine here (no! don't put money on the table, it is a free bet): the eternal stories of devasted populations and millions of refugees we find in history tales are very often overrated - the Alps regions were never very densely populated as all mountains: only the valleys: it 's true the winners took very often the broad valleys but the oldest populations did the "round back" and often flourished again after the storms - the rich and "elite" (what a curious definition) people are the first ones to flee when weather turns bad but the inferior stratae of population (often the oldest ethnie) keep on holding the ground very often and it explains why old genetic heritages can still be found sometimes in countries which saw, according to texts, a lot of following winners - anthropologic studies about S Germany during the first great southward moves of germanic tribes showed that the more ancient populations (Celtic for the most) were dominant in the highlands (maybe not so dense by the fact) when the new ones (germanic, more dolichocephalic, higher statured) were dominant in the valleys: nobody can say today Württemberg citizens are the exact copy of the Nieder-Sachsig citiznes...
some %: only 28% blond inWürttemberg (my criteria) compared to 58-62% in Nieder-Sachsen - about 33% along the Rhine, but only 26% and 23% in 2 villages of Schwartzwalde...
east-Bavaria: about 33% but variations village by village (altitude?) - and in SW again, as by hazard, more excess of ligh eyes over light hair (seemoingly common among Celts) -
and again: South THuringen (mountainou): only 27% blods spite its position mor northern: hazard?

(y)(y)(y)
 
Thanks for all this info, Moesan.

my opinion is that the celtic element (mixed with less important neolithic near-easterners + mesolithical archaic people, absorbed by them in some way) is the most weighty in SW Germany of today beside the genuine germanic elements - but it does not exclude some influences of Roman occupation (I think in Mainz, based upon old STR surveys that don't confirm nor infirm the SNPs)

You wouldn't happen to have any studies about this to point me towards, would you?
 
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Freiburg im Breisgau/D: J2 = 9%

"The city is situated in the heart of a major wine-growing region and serves as the primary tourist entry point to the scenic beauty of the Black Forest. ..... This town was strategically located at a junction of trade routes between the Mediterranean Sea and the North Sea regions, and the Rhine and Danube rivers"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg_im_Breisgau


"The Agri Decumates or Decumates Agri were a region of the Roman Empire's provinces of Germania superior ("Upper Germania") and Raetia; covering the Black Forest, Swabian Jura, and Franconian Jura areas between the Rhine, Main, and Danube rivers; in present southwestern Germany, including present Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Freiburg im Breisgau , and Weißenburg in Bayern."
Wikipedia - Agri Decumates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agri_Decumates

"The larger Roman settlements were Sumolecenna (Rottenburg am Neckar), Civitas Aurelia Aquensis (Baden-Baden), Lopodunum (Ladenburg). and Arae Flaviae (Rottweil)."
Wikipedia - Agri Decumates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agri_Decumates

"Rottweil was founded by the Romans in AD 73 as Arae Flaviae and became a municipium, but there are traces of human settlement going back to 2000 BC. Roman baths and a mosaic of Orpheus (c. AD 180) date from the time of Roman settlement."
Wikipedia - Rottweil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rottweil

Although a versatile breed used in recent times for many purposes, the Rottweiler is one of the oldest of herding breeds. A multi-faceted herding and stock protection dog, it is capable of working all kinds of livestock under a variety of conditions. The breed's history likely dates to the Roman Empire. It is likely that the Rottweiler is a descendant of ancient Roman drover dogs, a mastiff-type dog that was a dependable, rugged dog with great intelligence and guarding instincts. During their quest to conquer Europe, the Roman legion traveled in large numbers across the continent. The non-existence of refrigeration meant the soldiers had to bring herds of cattle with them on their excursions for food. These drover dogs were not only used to keep the herds of cattle together, but to guard the supply stock at night."
Wikipedia - Rottweiler
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rottweiler

lydpg_gallery_254.jpg


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http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28988-Haplogroup-J2-Romans-Christianity-and-Viticulture/

R%C3%B6merhalle%2C_Bad_Kreuznach_-_Tiberius_Iulius_Abdes_Pantera_tombstone.JPG

The Roman tombstone in Bingerbrück, Germany

Tib(erius) Iul(ius) Abdes Pantera Sidonia ann(orum) LXII stipen(diorum) XXXX miles exs(ignifer?)coh(orte) I sagittariorumh(ic) s(itus) e(st)

Tiberius Iulius Abdes Pantera from Sidon, aged 62 years served 40 years, former standard bearer(?) of the first cohort of archers lies here.


"It was one of the most important Phoenician cities, and may have been the oldest."
Wikipedia - Sidon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidon

"The YDNA Haplogroup of the ancient Phoenicians is J2, also identified as the signature of human migration via the Mediterranean in the Neolithic or New Stone Age around 6,000 BC, from the Levant into Europe."
Ancientmed.org - The Mediterraneans.
http://www.ancientmed.org/TheMediterraneans.htm

"Was im ersten Moment exotisch erscheint, ist auf den zweiten Blick gar nicht so aussergewöhnlich. Rund jeder achte Europäer stammt aus der Linie J2."
Tages Anzeiger - Für 300 Franken auf den Spuren der eigenen Vorfahren. (German)
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/leben/g...n-Spuren-der-eigenen-Vorfahren/story/28960496

"J2 Orientalide West. Ihr Verbreitungsgebiet ist der europäische Mittelmeerraum."
Die Haplogruppen des Y-Adams nach Ländern Europas verteilt. (German)
http://www.manfred-hiebl.com/Y-Adam-Verteilung_Europa.pdf
 
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