Yes, it is exactly what it means. Other words you are "pro-gay" as long as they stay in the closet, lol.
Le Brok. Welcome to the United States way of thinking!! You are getting it! lol... Seriously though, some people here act like extending personal liberties to others is somehow infringing on their own rights... As demonstrated by Fire-brained below... Sorry for resorting to a cheap shot, but this is so typical of the Southern US and it's such a sad situation... Trust me guys...
I live in NC and the below drivel about "gayness being shoved down our throats" is not only a hilarious pun, it is also grossly inaccurate!
Like i said last summer gay men and women probably did not receive their attraction to the same gender from the opposite gender. You can't get around that. If homosexuality is natural there are other causes. Trust me Lebrok, i am totally fine with saying it's natural just i am sick of people assuming it is or is not because of their agenda.
It depends how you define a progressive society. Is killing of unborn children(almost never because of rape) progressive? If gays are desprite for marriage and to be open about their homosexuality in society, whatever i guess they have the right to do so, even though currently i oppose that lifestyle. I just don't want homosexuality and their lifestyle being shoved down our throats 24/7 via the media, like it currently is. I want it to be represented according to its popularity, so not much. The way the far left supports homosexuality is annoying, extreme, and sick. Also, i don't want to be called a bigot, neanderthal, not given equal rights of expression, and posed as some hatern because i don't agree with the libearl elite.
I have a feeling that everybody not agreeing with you is "far left".
Last time we talked about religion you bashed all the Catholics. The last time I checked they were christians.
Not true, I'm a fiscal conservative, and I'm still undecided about abortion. I just don't see a reason to oppress people and I love freedoms, but I never was a hippy. And for that I'm a conservo-liberal.
Thanks to oppressive and intolerant people like you we still have to fight to open their minds.
Again LeBrok, this is part of your training
... Being moderate here is "left wing wacko," and to a Southerner, your "conservo-liberal status renders you a "communist." In the South I was raised Catholic... Not only did we get asked often if we worshiped Mary and drank blood (which I guess was technically true according to the transubstantiation), but now it is also the religion of Latino immigrants, so that is a double whammy for conservative Americans... Many people in the South honestly do not understand the family tree of Christianity, and don't realize that Catholicism is a Christian denomination... Additionally, it would frighten you how many protestants don't know where the word "protestant" derives from... If they did, they would know that Catholics are Christian! I am not saying this is all pervasive, but the amount of ignorance would truly frighten you my friend!
Venezuela perhaps? I might claim Brazil too. They might not be on the list of the top ten most liberal countries, but they are certainly more liberal than, say, Russia or Iran.
At the sub-country level, you sometimes see liberal, but poor, regions of countries. This is so in many poor urban areas of the USA, which overwhelmingly vote for the Democratic party (the more liberal of the two main political parties, and the one generally in favor of increased welfare and socialized medicine). By contrast, poor rural areas there tend to be highly conservative. There may also be a racial aspect to that because poor urban areas in the USA tend to be overwhelmingly black, while rural poverty there tends to be overwhelmingly white.
Another American with some sense! There's hope yet! It makes no real sense, but Southerners stubbornly vote against their own interests routinely... As you suggest, poor urban minorities are generally less socially conservative culturally, and being outside the mainstream this certainly influences voting.
I would say, developing countries with developing freedoms.
I would say that poor vote Democratic, because Democrats always promise more for the poor than conservatives. Best example is Medicare program by Obama. Otherwise I think they have similar level of conservatism and liberalism.
LeBrok, LeBrok, LeBrok... I thought we were getting somewhere... Again, you are assuming that Americans "think..." This is where you have been lead astray as explained in my response to Robert. Once you grasp how ignorant we are, the pieces will start falling into place!
It'll be hard to find a homosexual in the SouthEast United States, where everyone is basically 100% British. Or in Western United States, where everyone is 100% NorthWest European.
This is such rubbish... I am guessing they just don't like you very much and steer clear....
In US on other hand there is a steady democratic system for 200 years, with governments coming from roots, and not afraid of their people. We should also mention that Wild West culture proliferated and solidified gun ownership a lot too.
Maybe firearms at home are ok in a civil war or in very unstable situations were there is total anarchy....but in a functioning democracy? whats the purpose? unless one feels threatened all the time. For what other reason its ok to have a licensed fire arm at home? Love to hear about the benefits of it........
Angela, those were different times, time of turbulence, why would that justify for guns to be legal in American households in2015? to defend what and from whom? Are things really that bad? or its some kind of obsession that needs healing?
LeBrok does have a point, he understands us better than I gave him credit for earlier... :grin: I would not dismiss that as an influence, but as Maleth says it does not excuse current laws... That being said, a lot of people in the South do still hunt significantly and this reality makes restrictions less likely... I'm about as liberal as they come, but I do support gun ownership... We need more laws, rules/restrictions, background checks, limitations on types of guns that can be owned, etc... That might happen in my lifetime, but the South really will rise again if Washington tries to take their guns! It IS an OBSESSION for sure!
Homosexuality is perfectly normal in the animal kingdom (in smaller percentages just as in humans) and so is Bi sexuality by the way. What haplogroups do these animals carry? and Im not talking just about Bonobo's the closest animal to humans but an array of animal groups. Very natural and nothing disorderly and none of them are persecuted but a part of the clan.
I read some type of Ape-expert or whatever(don't know the real name) that said homosexuality has never been reported in Chimps in the wild, but is well known in Bonobos. Also, that they usually only see homosexuality in animals when they're taken out of the wild and put in zoos or just human controlled areas. Sexuality is male-female reproduction, end of story. If Homosexuality exists in nature in our DNA, it's some-type of mutation of heterosexuality. And to say homosexuality is on par with heterosexuality of normality in sexuality is denial of the mechanism of sex itself, because sex is a gender thing(One has the vagina, one has the penis).
As Maleth says, it is expressed throughout the animal kingdom... google my friend. Bonobos live in the wild... They happen to be in a pocket that is so resource dense and secluded that there was not need for competitive violence, so everyone just boinked everyone else all the time to expend energy instead of ripping each other apart... They essentially domesticated themselves as we have ourselves, and if I remember correctly (don't quote me on this, google it) we are more closely related to Bonobos than regular chimps... so maybe we share their potential natural inclination toward homosexuality... I personally am not gay and have never been inclined in that way, but I do not consider it any more unnatural than my heterosexuality.
No one can know for sure until all homosexuals and bisexuals feel outright comfortable in their sexuality world wide. Remember that in all Islamic countries homosexuality is a crime (Like in some African countries), just like it was in Europe a few decades ago. So who is going to claim to be a homosexual in any kind of survey?! Homosexuals only won some degree of rights very recently, in China and that does not mean that all of them are comfortable to be honest with their sexuality. There is still a
great deal of nonacceptance in Russia and the east of Europe in general and many refuse to be open or even comfortable with their sexuality.
genes do regulate level of hormones and amount of receptors. It could be a simple genetic case. Well, maybe not that simple if there are good few genes involved.
Yes, now when they have a choice, but not before when all the marriages were arranged and forced by parents and societal pressure. I know couple of gays from polish community here, married in Poland, who were husbands and fathers, and left all of this for a guy lover. They say that they were sick and tired of pretending they were straight. The point is that they were gay and they made children, possibly transferring "gayness" to next generation.
I have a gay 1st cousin once removed (R1b, btw :grin
who, due to cultural/familial pressure was in a "convetional" marriage for decades before doing as many on this thread suggested, getting fed up with the lies and embracing who he really was. I'm happy for him, and his partner is hysterical btw. I think the attitude of those here who act like homosexuality is a genetic flaw really shows a dangerous kind of ignorance and refusal to be anything resembling objective (because is there really any such thing, or has quantum mechanics just screwed us all?). It's sad that this mentality is so prevalent here, in the Southern US, and elsewhere in the world, but I see it changing some in the younger generation; they are much more open-minded... and we'll say, "Bernie Sanders oriented," so their may be hope yet... for the US anyway.
When people tell me that gayness is a choice, I ask them
"If you are straight, which we happen to be (despite the 'R1b celtic gay sex urge gene')
, tell me about the moment you decided to be straight... I cannot remember making this decision; it was simply my natural preference for as long as I can remember, and luckily I was born into the liberal branch of the family and would have been equally accepted had I "opted" to be gay..." Science clearly tells us it is predominantly (if not entirely) genetic even if it can be culturally influenced... It's too bad people can't even realize when they are being prejudiced....
As far as I know homosexuality is greatly influenced by hormonal imbalance in the womb.
Then it seems like it would be more likely to be linked to X...
You make this claim that there is a genetic predisposition in Northern Europe for homosexuality but you offer no hard evidence other than your anecdotal observations which conveniently ignore anything that doesnt validate your argument.
Nice to see a few people representing a sane voice from the United States...
Good point. The "Gay Uncle" theory of the transmission of male homosexuality claims that the genes typically causing men to become gay do not affect women in that way. It then says that gay men, being mostly childless but still having a fatherhood instict, lavish extraordinary amounts of attention and nurturing onto their nieces and nephews. The nieces, having multiple strong "daddy" figures in their lives, grow up very healthy, get married, and have lots of children. The nephews become another generation of "gay uncles" to help raise the next generation of gay-male-gene propagating girls.
In a nutshell, the theory offers an explanation why such a seemingly anti-reproductive trait can still reproduce. In a sense, gay men reproduce indirectly via their sisters.
If this is true, I would expect there to be a stronger correlation between mtDNA and male homosexuality than a correlation with y-DNA. Has anyone found one?
I had never heard of that theory... Interesting! And if the answer to your last question shows a link to mtdna it could also be linked to Promenade's hormone imbalance...?
Only way to find out is to make a poll. If there was any gay gene, I seriously doubt that the Gay gene would solely hitch a ride on the Y-Chromozone; that would mean that lesbians would be stereotyped as having a Y-Chromozone.
Sourcing from 23andme, these genes are the strongest link to homosexuality.
rs6990254: G = more likely to be homosexual, T = average likelihood
rs2221108: G = more likely to be homosexual, A = average likelihood
rs2221108: G = more likely to be homosexual, A = average likelihood
Neat, and another same voice from the US... and apparently a fellow r1b1b2a1a2d? Well I have an *... Cool though! Howdy Cuz!
Fire Haired,
A Polish feminist from the Congress of Women - professor Monika Płatek - would disagree with you. She said:
Quote:
"In homosexual marriages as many children are born, and often more, than in heterosexual marriages."
Source (in Polish): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0qmuBSGUog#t=4m38s
Maybe in lesbian marriages, but obviously not in gay marriages.
That's because gay R1bs have a higher rate of R1b sons... it's a vicious cycle and soon we will no longer be able to reproduce! (kidding!) I would not be offended if they did a study to prove/disprove a link...
I don't get why you're so happy to mention that homosexuality caused population reduction in some ancient Greeks or that it was popular. Because it is clear most of these "homosexuals" were not actually homosexual, especially in Sparta. Circumstances caused them to pervert their sexuality. Prison does the same thing. It helps cause people to be homosexual. If humans were naturally so homosexual, we wouldn't exist!! It'll be difficult to find any population so homosexual or bisexual.
Saying "I think some people are born gay and should be treated with respect" is differnt from "That's awesome, a guy who claims to be gay left his wife and family. Hell yeah!! The Spartans almost went extinct because they were so gay. Yeah, awesome!!". You tread too much towards this second time to a point that it gets creepy.
That's surprising and interesting. A population that won't reproduce, scary. IMO, it is the result of their circumstances. I don't think it's representative of any norm. Just like circumstance in prison leads to homosexuality. If isolated for years, people will likely resort or sticks or animals or whatever.
LeBrock is right... Spartans basically had state institutionalized homosexuality... Soldiers had young boy apprentices... As you say, they were away from home a lot, and for long periods of time, but they seemed to engage in homosexual sex pretty voluntarily...
How wonderfully scientific!
LOL... Another member of "Americans For Sense" chiming in!
And of course R1b is prevalent in these countries. There has been no study for the numbers to introduce you to figures but an average person can deduct from the experience that a Germanic folk is a lot more likely to be homosexual than a non Germanic one.
Some of those ancient Europeans certainly had a greater affinity for the horse!
edit: why has my post gone so narrow? tried to fix it....