E1a1, Jews and Natufians?

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Power77

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E1a1
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H1
Hi, I'm new at the forum and I'm very interested in anthropology and genetics as mosts members of this forum are.
I've tested with 23andme 2 years ago and found out to my biggest surprise that I'm E1a1 on the Y-chromosome.
As I've researched more info about the hg., it seems that it is most common in West Africa and particularly among the Dogon of Mali(reaching 44% in its male population).
I'm of Ashkenazi Jewish descent from Romania on my dad's side so it certainly came as a big surprise to me.
But it seems that the lineage has been found in other Jews from Eastern Europe, as well as in Lebanon, Algeria, Morocco, Spain, Italy and even Britain
at low frequencies.
So I was wondering if such a marker has anything to do with the Natufian Neolithic culture of the Levant as some of the skulls associated with this particular culture have been described as Sub-Saharan-like.
If anyone on this forum has any opinion about this mysterious hg. share your opinion.
Cheers.
PS: It seems other SSA-like Y-DNA hgs. have been found in pretty much all the countries cited above such as A3b2,A1a*, or even E1b1a(not to mention all the mtDNA L lineages found as well).
 
after the ice ages, there were only 2 migrations from Africa to SW Asia : E-V13 some 14000 years ago and E-M123/E-M34, the proto-semitic migration 5500 years ago
your forfathers must have joined 1 of these 2, and gotten into the Balkans from the Levant/Anatolia later

both migrators aren't the Natufians, the Natufians allready consumed seeds of wild grasses 20000 years ago in Ohalo, near Lake Tiberias
 
bicicleur said:
after the ice ages, there were only 2 migrations from Africa to SW Asia : E-V13 some 14000 years ago and E-M123/E-M34, the proto-semitic migration 5500 years ago
Click to expand...
I have read articles saying E-v13 is native European and its parent clade came from SW Asia (but maybe that's what you meant). do you have sources on E-M123?
 
First you can check the page on Y-haplogroup E here in eupedia, there are several theories.

I believe E-V13 came to SW Asia 14000 years ago :
check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushabian_culture at the bottom :
[h=2]Notes[edit][/h]^α Although a migration of people from Africa bringing E-M78 lineages into the Levant took place c. 14,700 years ago[16] it as yet cannot be linked with any of the Levantine cultures at the time (Hamran, Mushabian, Ramonian, Geometric Kebaran) or later (Natufian, Harifian, Khiamian) since all are known to have originated in the Levant.[3][4]Since a material culture cannot be connected with the E-M78 immigrants into the Levant it is likely they were assimilated into the various Levantine cultures beginning with the Ramonian culture, which was present in the Sinai 14,700 years ago. This migration coincided with the population overflow in the Sinai and Negev that caused the Geometric Kebarans to fall back to the Mediterranean core area which in turn caused them to develop the Natufian culture as a result of the population increase in the Mediterranean park forest.[17]

this migration fits with the fact that till some 15000 years ago the Nile valley was densely popultated, and by 2000 years later it was virtually deserted
the reason : climate change in Africa, start of the wet period
till 15000 years ago the White Nile was blocked by sand dunes, leaving the Nile as a marsh, and interesting ecotope for humans
after the White Nile started flowing again, the Nile was a wild river, the valey became unhabitable for some 5000 years

E-V13 belongs to the E-M78 clade
E-V13 was probalby not very succesfull in SW Asia, there is not much of them left there
But E-V13 must have been with the first who starting agriculture from SW Asia (some 8500 - 9000 year ago) and he must have been succesfull there

As for E-M123/E-M34 , check proto semitic languages on google or wikipedia
E-M34 is considered the Semitic clade. 5500 years ago they came from Africa. In the southern levant they met the Arab clade , J1-P58. Arabs joined and took over their language.
E-M123/E-M34 were pastoralist nomads
After this migration, 5500 years ago , semitic people like Akkadians and Amorites appeared.
 
bicicleur said:
As for E-M123/E-M34 , check proto semitic languages on google or wikipedia
E-M34 is considered the Semitic clade. 5500 years ago they came from Africa. In the southern levant they met the Arab clade , J1-P58. Arabs joined and took over their language.
E-M123/E-M34 were pastoralist nomads
After this migration, 5500 years ago , semitic people like Akkadians and Amorites appeared.
Click to expand...

I see theories that proto-Semites came 5500 ygo in the Levant, but I don't see mentioned E-m34/123 as being them.
 
The story of E-M123 might be a bit more complicated. It has probably entered Europe in the Stone Age.
Taken from Semino et al. (2004), quote:

The very low frequency of E-M123 in Ethiopia does not allow any inferences about the origin of this clade. The network of E-M78 and that of E-M123 are in agreement with the hypothesis of their ancient presence in the Near East and their subsequent expansion into the southern Balkans. The divergence time (T[SUB]D[/SUB]) (Zhivotovsky 2001) between the Near East and European lineages has been estimated to a range of 7–14 thousand years (ky) ago. Cinnioğlu et al. (2004) found a high degree of variance of E-M123 in Turkey, which has been interpreted as being due to multiple founders rather than a single early dispersal event that has remained geographically circumscribed.
 
In one of the threads I pegged E to Natufians. They were not full farmers yet, but very heavy consumers of wild wheats. I called them Harvesters, as they didn't seed but only harvested. They moved into Balkans first before true farmers of hg G did. E got assimilated very quickly into farming communities of G thanks to already being half farmers. Much easier and earlier than assimilation of Hunter-Gatherers happened in South Europe.
 
Sloven-Vened said:
Jews are not Semites. Semites have dark skin and black hair. Jews are Khazars. Khazars are Germanic nation. Language of Khazars is germanic Yiddish language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#The_Khazar_hypothesis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_genetics_of_Jews
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazar_hypothesis_of_Ashkenazi_ancestry
Click to expand...

If not mistaken Ashkenazi Jews are a mixture of genetically original Jewish diaspora from Palestine proper creating a group of converts and also intermarriages with Central European People over hundred of years. The original Jews of the Middle east would probably be very close to other semites in the area. Jewish history goes back much further then the Ashkenazi term.

~~~~ Oh I just realised you posted same thing on 7 threads :distrust:
 
Sloven-Vened said:
Jews are not Semites. Semites have dark skin and black hair. Jews are Khazars. Khazars are Germanic nation. Language of Khazars is germanic Yiddish language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#The_Khazar_hypothesis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_genetics_of_Jews
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazar_hypothesis_of_Ashkenazi_ancestry
Click to expand...

That is not necessarily true, there are people who are Middle Eastern who are light skinned and have blond/light brown hair, it is more rare but does exist, there is not one Semitic look, it would be equivalent to saying all europeans look the same.
 
Maleth said:
If not mistaken Ashkenazi Jews are a mixture of genetically original Jewish diaspora from Palestine proper creating a group of converts and also intermarriages with Central European People over hundred of years. The original Jews of the Middle east would probably be very close to other semites in the area. Jewish history goes back much further then the Ashkenazi term.

~~~~ Oh I just realised you posted same thing on 7 threads :distrust:
Click to expand...

Official language of Israel is germanic Yiddish language!!!
 
The official language of Israel is Hebrew, not Yiddish.

You obviously know nothing about Jewish groups who never spoke Yiddish such as the Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews.
 
Vallicanus said:
The official language of Israel is Hebrew, not Yiddish.

You obviously know nothing about Jewish groups who never spoke Yiddish such as the Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews.
Click to expand...
It is not true. Official language of Israel is pseudo-"Hebrew" and it is real Yiddish language .
You din't visit Israel, I yes.
Jews in Israel speak germanic Yiddish language with small number Hebrew words.
 
"The main languages used for communication among Israeli citizens are Modern Hebrew and Arabic, while English, second language of the majority of the Israeli population, is used widely in official logos, road signs and product labels."

You apparently don't see signs in Yiddish...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Israel#/media/File:Languages_of_Israel.jpeg

"Hebrew and Arabic are the official languages of Israel....Today, Hebrew is the official language used in government, commerce,Knesset debates, court sessions, schools, and universities."

"According to a 2011 Government Social Survey of Israelis over 20 years of age, 49% report Hebrew as their native language, Arabic 18%, Russian 15%,Yiddish 2%, French 2%, English 2%,[1] 1.6% Spanish, and 10% other languages (including Romanian, German and Amharic, which were not offered as answers by the survey). "

"Use of Yiddish, which was the main competitor prior to World War II, was discouraged,[7] and the number of Yiddish speakers declined as the older generations died out. However, Yiddish is still often used in Ashkenazi haredi communities worldwide, and is sometimes the first language for the members of the Hasidic branches of such communities."

" The language of Ashkenazi Jews in the diaspora and the second most widely spoken Jewish language, Yiddish is a Germanic language, but incorporates elements of Hebrew. Banned in theatres, movies and other cultural activities during Israel's early statehood, Yiddish has undergone a cultural revival in recent years. Furthermore, Yiddish has always and is still regularly used in some haredi Ashkenazi communities. However, despite state-sponsored initiatives for preserving Yiddish culture, the number of Yiddish-speaking Israelis is in decline as older generations of Ashkenazi Jews pass away."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Israel
 
Vallicanus said:
You obviously know nothing about Jewish groups who never spoke Yiddish such as the Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews.
Click to expand...

Non-Ashkenazi Jews are in Israel (and Israel government) subhuman. Israel is most racist country of the world. It is neo-nazist country
 
Official language of Israel is Neo-Hebrew language, no Hebrew language. It is the youngest language of the world!!.

I learned Hebrew language for Bible translation, and it is prehistory language very inarticulate, vague and inapplicable for communication in 21. century. And Yiddish is pseudo-Hebrew language with Hebrew font. For example Yiddish in wikipedia

https://yi.wikipedia.org/wiki/וואולקאן
 
The fact that vocabulary for the modern era was added to "modernize" the Hebrew that Jews had used for the 2000 years of the diaspora for religious purposes doesn't mean it isn't still Hebrew and it doesn't make Yiddish the "official language" of Israel now does it, contrary to your assertion upthread.

Yiddish is a dying language spoken mainly by very old people and by some Hasids.

I see we have someone else who doesn't understand the difference between a "script", and a language.

Regardless, this is all off topic. This is a genetics thread, not a linguistic thread. All further off topic posts will be removed.
 
Sloven-Vened said:
Official language of Israel is Neo-Hebrew language, no Hebrew language. It is the youngest language of the world!!.

I learned Hebrew language for Bible translation, and it is prehistory language very inarticulate, vague and inapplicable for communication in 21. century. And Yiddish is pseudo-Hebrew language with Hebrew font. For example Yiddish in wikipedia

https://yi.wikipedia.org/wiki/וואולקאן
Click to expand...
Get real dude. Stop creating your own definitions, the augmented reality visions of yours (poster Vedun), or you won't be able to understand the world and world will never understand you.

According to your "definition" there must be no slovakian language, because most of vocabulary is of foreign origin. Latin, English, French, German, Russian, Polish, you name it... But guess what, the base of it is still Slovak, the grammar is Slovak, most of everyday vocabulary is Slovak, and is based on old Slavic. It makes sense to call it Slovak language.
 
LeBrok: thank you very much for your interesting note.
In English Wikipedia before 2 years wrote, that official language of Israel is Neo-Hebrew, no Hebrew. Neo-Hebrew is synthetic language.
Slovak language exist hundreds years, but Neo-Hebrew exist only a few decades.
Hebrew language was disappeared before Christ. Jesus spoken Aramaic language, not Hebrew
 
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