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Thread: Haplogroup J2, Thracians, Illyrians, Phrygians, Vlachs and others.

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    Haplogroup J2, Thracians, Illyrians, Phrygians, Vlachs and others.

    Haplogroup J2 and Thracians.

    "Cruciani et al.’s E-V13 and J2-M12 coalescence times bear a striking similarity to carbon-14-based date calculations for certain archaeological sites in the Maritsa river valley and its tributaries, near the city of Nova Zagora, Bulgaria (Nilolova, 2002). These sites are associated directly with the proto-Thracian culture of the southern Balkans that came to dominate the region during the first millennium BCE. Sites surveyed included Ezero, Yunatsite, Dubene-Sarovka and Plovdiv-Nebet Tepe, all of which had deep associations with the developing EBA proto-Thracian culture of the region."
    Haplogroup E3b1a2 as a Possible Indicator of Settlement in Roman Britain by Soldiers of Balkan Origin.
    http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.htm


    Thracian Peltast.

    "Of course, there are more ways for J2b2 members to have spread to the areas highlighted on the J2b2 heatmap as being suggested in this paper, it is interesting however to see how easily all these regions are connected through Greek, Macedonian and/or Thracian mythology, history and migrations."
    Analysis of the J2b2 M241 Geno 2.0 Heatmap. Comparing historical data with heatmap hotspots.
    https://www.facebook.com/download/46...20Heatmap.docx

    "Research conducted by the administrators of the Border Reivers DNA Project has identified numerous haplotypes in persons of British descent that show Haplotype 35 markers. Moreover, most of these haplotypes appear to originate from areas of Britain near the Antonine Wall, Hadrian's Wall and other places of Roman fortification or settlement. These areas include Galloway, Dumfries, Ayrshire and The Borders in Scotland, and Cumbria, Yorkshire, Lancashire, Shropshire and Staffordshire in England. Many of the Roman troops stationed in these areas came from Southeastern Europe or Western Asia. They included Sarmatians, Dacians, Goths, Syrians, Mesopotamians, Thracians and Anatolians."
    Elliot (And border receivers) DNA Project (Haplogroup J2) - Haplogroup R1b (Haplotype 35).
    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....5_analysis.htm



    "Bulgarian DNA profile is congruent with those described for most European populations. Almost the entire Bulgarian mtDNA pool is made up of West Eurasian lineages, with just 0.9% of Eastern Asian lineages. It is a similar picture from Y-chromosome haplogroups. About 80% of the total genetic variation in Bulgarians falls within haplogroups E-M35, I-M170, J-M172, R-M17 and R-M269, all found elsewhere in Europe."
    Wikipedia.org - Bulgarians.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarians

    "Leaving aside Apulians, Indians and Nepalese, the highest ages, compatible with a Neolithic expansion, are obtained in regions around the Black Sea, namely Anatolia (9.1±2 kya) and Bulgaria, in particular its central part (7.8±3 kya). Consequently, in this region, haplogroup J-M241 can be considered as a genetic signal of the expansion of farmers towards Southeast Europe possibly enhanced by the breaching of the Bosphorus Sill and the flood of the Pontic Lake with marine water."
    Y-Chromosome Diversity in Modern Bulgarians: New Clues about Their Ancestry.
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0056779

    "Interesting results from the lineage analysis can be summarized as follows: (i) R-L23*, the eastern branch of haplogroup R-M269, is present in Eastern Bulgaria since the post glacial period; (ii) haplogroup E-V13, which probably originated in Western Asia, has a Mesolithic age in Bulgaria from where it expanded after the spread of farming marked by haplogroup G-P15, J-M410 representatives; (iii) haplogroup J-M241 probably reflects the Neolithic westward expansion of farmers from the earliest sites along the Black Sea."
    Y-Chromosome Diversity in Modern Bulgarians: New Clues about Their Ancestry.
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0056779

    Last edited by RHAS; 21-05-14 at 23:25.

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    Haplogroup J2 and Phrygians.

    "Several authors have proposed that the Indo-European language presently spoken by Armenians arose during the Bronze Age, when Indo-European speaking tribes from the Balkans and Greece invaded Anatolia and Transcaucasia, leading to the subsequent spread of their culture and language. In this study, we have detected a number of lineages that are prominent in the Balkans (I2*, I2b*, J2b1 and J2b2) at low levels throughout Ararat Valley, Gardman and Lake Van, the latter of which also contains haplogroups commonly associated with Bronze Age Greece (ie, J2a8-M319 (4.9%), and E1b1b1-M78 and its sublineages (3.9%)). While this may suggest genetic input from early Greek or Phrygian tribes, it is also possible that these low levels of Balkan lineages arrived in Armenia at a later time, such as during one of the many incursions into the area during the reign of the Macedonian, Roman and Byzantine empires."
    Neolithic patrilineal signals indicate that the Armenian plateau was repopulated by agriculturalists.
    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2011192a.html

    "I-P37 and J-M12 are dated to 1,100BC and 1,200BC, at around the time that e.g. the Phrygians from the Balkans are believed to have migrated to Asia Minor. I-P37 and J-M12 reach their maxima in areas north of Greece where the Phrygians are said to have originated."
    How Y-STR variance accumulates: a comment on Zhivotovsky, Underhill and Feldman (2006).
    http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2008/07/...s-comment.html


    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...no-2-0-Heatmap

    "The Phrygians (Phruges or Phryges) were an ancient Indo-European people, initially dwelling in the southern Balkans; according to Herodotus, under the name of Bryges (Briges), changing it to Phruges after their final migration to Anatolia, via the Hellespont. From tribal and village beginnings, the state of Phrygia arose in the 8th century BC with its capital at Gordium."
    Wikipedia - Phrygians.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygians

    Last edited by RHAS; 21-05-14 at 23:42.

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    Haplogroup J2 and Illyrians.

    "Paternal genetic heritage was studied on DNA from 1,141 individuals analyzed for Y chromosome markers (data from the Institute for Anthropological Research, Zagreb, Croatia and from the published sources) (Barač et al., 2003; Rootsi et al., 2004; Peričić et al., 2005a, 2005b). The individuals were from the continental parts of the Balkan peninsula, the north-west Adriatic and the south-east Alpine areas as well as from the Eastern Adriatic islands, i.e. the areas where the different Illyrian trybes settled during the Iron Age period (Fig.1). The sample was analyzed for Y chromosomal haplogroup frequencies in 9 populations and classified as I1a, I1b*-P37, R1a-SRY1532, R1b-M173, E3b1-M78 and J2e1 haplogroups."
    Language Bounderies and Microevolutionary processes in South-Eastern Europe.
    http://www.anthroinsula.org/resource...%20version.pdf



    "The two haplogroups most strongly associated with Albanian people (E-V13 and J2b) are often considered to have arrived in Europe from the Near East with the Neolithic revolution or late Mesolithic, early in the Holocene epoch. From here in the Balkans, it is thought, they spread to the rest of Europe."
    Origin of the Albanians.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians

    "The origin of the Albanians has been for some time a matter of dispute among historians. Most historians conclude that the Albanians are descendants of populations of the prehistoric Balkans, such as the Illyrians, Dacians or Thracians. Little is known about these peoples, and they blended into one another in Thraco-Illyrian and Daco-Thracian contact zones even in antiquity."
    Origin of the Albanians.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians



    "Haplogroup J (J2-M172): The frequency peak is found in Dardanians (15.02%) and Taulanti (14.30%), decreasing in Liburni (10.90%), Veneti (9.60%) and Japodes (6.67%), reaching rather low values in Delmatae (2.09%) and Autariates (1.40%). It is absent in Noricum and the area of Histri."
    Language Bounderies and Microevolutionary processes in South-Eastern Europe.
    http://www.anthroinsula.org/resource...%20version.pdf

    "Taulantii (Greek: Ταυλάντιοι) was the name of a cluster of Illyrian tribes. According to Greek mythology Taulas (Tαύλας), one of the six sons of Illyrius, was the eponymous ancestor of the Taulanti. They lived on the Adriatic coast of Illyria (modern Albania), between to the vicinity of the city of Epidamnus (modern Durrës). This tribe played an important role in Illyrian history of the 4th-3rd centuries BC,when King Glaukias (335 BC- 302 BC) ruled over them. This tribe had become bilingual being under the effects of an early Hellenisation."
    Taulanti
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taulantii

    "The Dardani (/ˈdɑrdənaɪ/; Ancient Greek: Δαρδάνιοι, Δάρδανοι, Δαρδανίωνες; Latin: Dardani) (or Dardanians) was a tribe that occupied the region of Dardania. Located at the Thraco-Illyrian contact zone, their identification as either an Illyrian or Thracian tribe is uncertain."
    Dardani
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardanians_(Balkans)

    "The Liburnians (or Liburni, Greek: Λιβυρνοί) were an ancient tribe, possibly Illyrian, inhabiting the district called Liburnia, a coastal region of the northeastern Adriatic between the rivers Arsia (Raša) and Titius (Krka) in what is now Croatia."
    Liburni
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liburni
    Last edited by RHAS; 22-05-14 at 00:10.

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    Haplogroup J2 and Vlachs/Aromuns

    "One fourth of the Vlach people (isolated communities of Romance language speaking peoples in the Balkans) belong to J2, which, combined to the fact that they speak a language descended from latin, suggests that they could have had a greater part of Roman (italian) ancestry than other ethnic groups in the Balkans."
    Eupedia.com, 2013.
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml



    "Two clusters could be distinguished in the J2-M172 network, probably reflecting the STR differentiation between any of its subclades and/or its unresolved paragroup J2-M172. While the non-Aromun populations did not appear to display differences in distribution among these two clusters, the Y STR differentiation of J2-M172 chromosomes between Albanian Aromuns and the Aromun population from the Stip region in Macedonia was significant."
    Paternal and maternal lineages in the Balkans show a homogeneous landscape over linguistic barriers, except for the isolated Aromuns.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...05.00251.x/pdf



    "Vlach (English pronunciation: /ˈvlɑːk/ or /ˈvlæk/) is a blanket term covering several modern Latin peoples descending from the Latinized population in the present-day territory of Romania and Moldova, as well as the southern part of the Balkan Peninsula and south and west of the Danube River. English variations of the name include Wallachians, Walla, Wlachs, Wallachs, Vlahs, Olahs or Ulahs. Groups that have historically been called Vlachs include modern-day Romanians, Aromanians, Morlachs, Megleno-Romanians and Istro-Romanians. Since the creation of the Romanian state, the term in English has mostly been used for those living outside Romania. The Vlachs did not become easily identifiable before the 11th century when they were described by George Kedrenos, and their prehistory during the Migration period is considered by some historians a matter of scholarly speculation. According to some linguists and scholars, the existence of the present Eastern Romance languages proves the survival of the Thraco-Romans in the Lower Danube basin during the Age of Migrations, while populations from the western Balkans historically referred to as "Vlachs" (e.g. speakers of the extinct Dalmatian language) could have also had Romanized Illyrian origins."
    Wikipedia - Vlachs.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs

    "Aromanians, or Vlachs (Aromanian: Armânji, Rrâmânji, Makidonji), are a Greek people with Latin as their language, native throughout the southern Balkans, especially in northern and central Greece, southern Albania, the Republic of Macedonia, south-western Bulgaria, and, as an emigrant community, in Serbia and Romania (Dobrudja). They are a native people in the regions of Epirus, Thessalia and Macedonia. An older term used for them is Macedo-Romanians. Especially in Greece, the term Vlachs (Vlahoi) is widespread; this term is sometimes used outside Greece to encompass all Latin-descended peoples of the Balkans, including the modern-day Romanians."
    Wikipedia - Aromanians.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanians
    Last edited by RHAS; 22-05-14 at 01:42.

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    Haplogroup J2 and Szeklers.

    "Among these J2-M172 subclades, J2e1-M102 is more frequent in Szeklers (7.2%) than in Hungarians (4.0%), while the undifferentiated J2-M172* Y chromosomes are slightly more common in Hungarian population (8% vs. 3.1%). The overall frequency of J2-M172 in the two populations (Hungarian: 13%; Szekler: 11.3%) is in the same order of magnitude as reported for Czechs and Slovaks (Semino et al., 2000), Romanians, Bulgarians (Di Giacomo et al. 2004) and Ukrainians (Semino et al. 2004)."
    Y-Chromosome Analysis of Ancient Hungarian and Two Modern Hungarian-Speaking Populations from the Carpathian Basin.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...8.00440.x/full

    "The Székelys derive their name from a Hungarian expression meaning "frontier guards". The origin of the Székelys has been much debated. It is now generally accepted that they are descendants of Hungarians (or of Magyarized Turkic peoples) transplanted to the eastern Carpathians to guard the frontier, their name meaning simply "frontier guards". The Székelys have historically claimed descent from Attila's Huns (repeated in Procopius's De bello Gothico), and believed they played a special role in shaping Hungary. Ancient legends recount that a contingent of Huns remained in Transylvania, later allying with the main Hungarian army that conquered the Carpathian Basin in the 9th century. The thirteenth-century chronicler Simon of Kéza also claimed that the Székely people descended from Huns who lived in mountainous lands prior to the Hungarian conquest. After the theory of Hunnic descent lost scholarly currency in the 20th century two substantial ideas emerged about Székely ancestry: Some scholars suggested that the Székelys were simply Magyars, like other Hungarians, transplanted in the Middle Ages to guard the frontiers. Researches could not prove that Szeklers spoke a different language. In this case, their strong cultural differences from other Hungarians stem from centuries of relative isolation in the mountains. Others suggested Turkic origin as Avar, Kabar or Esegel-Bulgar ancestries."
    Wikipedia - Székelys
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sz%C3%A9kelys


    (Image: Local autonomies in the kingdom of Hungary, showing Szekler/Szekelys territory in green).
    Last edited by RHAS; 21-05-14 at 23:33.

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    Haplogroup J2 and the Basarab Dynasty.

    "Vlad III The Impaler, also known as Dracula, descended from the dynasty of Basarab, the first rulers of independent Wallachia, in present Romania. Whether this dynasty is of Cuman (an admixed Turkic people that reached Wallachia from the East in the 11th century) or of local Romanian (Vlach) origin is debated among historians. Earlier studies have demonstrated the value of investigating the Y chromosome of men bearing a historical name, in order to identify their genetic origin. ...... The Basarab sample clusters into 11 lineages (Table 2), with six main lineages comprising 82.8% of the samples. Some lineages such as J-M241 and E-V13 are over-represented in the Basarab compared to the general Romanians."
    Y-Chromosome Analysis in Individuals Bearing the Basarab Name of the First Dynasty of Wallachian Kings.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404992/

    Lineage 6. J2b2 M241.

    Lineage 9. J2a2 M67.

    Last edited by RHAS; 22-05-14 at 01:32.

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    Haplogroup J2 and the Kalash.

    "A genetic study published led by Firasat (2007) on Kalash individuals found high and diverse frequencies of :Haplogroup L3a (22.7%), H1* (20.5%), R1a (18.2%), G (18.2%), J2 (9.1%), R* (6.8%), R1* (2.3%), and L* (2.3%). Haplogroup L, Haplogroup H, and Haplogroup R1a are thought to have originated from prehistoric South Asia."
    Wikipedia.org - Kalash People.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalash_people

    "The sister clade to J2a-M410 is J2b-M12. In India and Pakistan, all J2b members comprise the J2b2-M241 derivative HG."
    Polarity and Temporality of High-Resolution Y-Chromosome Distributions in India Identify Both Indigenous and Exogenous Expansions and Reveal Minor Genetic Influence of Central Asian Pastoralists.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380230/

    "In another example, the DNA of the Kalash people, a population isolated in a remote valley in Pakistan, showed evidence of input from Europe or the Middle East (the researchers could not pin down a precise geographic location) between 990 and 210 bc — a period that overlaps with that of Alexander the Great. Local Kalash tradition holds that they are descended from Alexander the Great's army, although there is no historical record of such a mixture."
    Nature.com - Modern Genes yield atlas of ancient inter ethnic sex.
    http://www.nature.com/news/modern-ge...ic-sex-1.14718

    "Another mixing event is the injection of European-type DNA into the Kalash, a people of Pakistan, at some time between 990 and 210 B.C. This could reflect the invasion of India by Alexander the Great in 326 B.C. The Kalash claim to be descended from Alexander’s soldiers, as do several other groups in the region."

    New York Times - Tracing ancestry team produces genetic atlas of human mixing events.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/14/sc...ents.html?_r=0
    Last edited by RHAS; 22-05-14 at 01:59.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by RHAS View Post
    Haplogroup J2 and Illyrians.

    "Paternal genetic heritage was studied on DNA from 1,141 individuals analyzed for Y chromosome markers (data from the Institute for Anthropological Research, Zagreb, Croatia and from the published sources) (Barač et al., 2003; Rootsi et al., 2004; Peričić et al., 2005a, 2005b). The individuals were from the continental parts of the Balkan peninsula, the north-west Adriatic and the south-east Alpine areas as well as from the Eastern Adriatic islands, i.e. the areas where the different Illyrian trybes settled during the Iron Age period (Fig.1). The sample was analyzed for Y chromosomal haplogroup frequencies in 9 populations and classified as I1a, I1b*-P37, R1a-SRY1532, R1b-M173, E3b1-M78 and J2e1 haplogroups."
    Language Bounderies and Microevolutionary processes in South-Eastern Europe.
    http://www.anthroinsula.org/resource...%20version.pdf



    "The two haplogroups most strongly associated with Albanian people (E-V13 and J2b) are often considered to have arrived in Europe from the Near East with the Neolithic revolution or late Mesolithic, early in the Holocene epoch. From here in the Balkans, it is thought, they spread to the rest of Europe."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians

    "The origin of the Albanians has been for some time a matter of dispute among historians. Most historians conclude that the Albanians are descendants of populations of the prehistoric Balkans, such as the Illyrians, Dacians or Thracians. Little is known about these peoples, and they blended into one another in Thraco-Illyrian and Daco-Thracian contact zones even in antiquity."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Albanians

    2008 genetic paper on Illyrians has the following breakup of J haplogroup for illyrians

    Haplogroup J (J2-M172):
    The frequency peak is found in Dardanians (15.02%) and Taulanti (14.30%), decreasing in Liburni (10.90%), Veneti (9.60%) and Japodes (6.67%), reaching rather low values in
    Delmatae (2.09%) and Autariates (1.40%). It is absent in Noricum and the area of Histri.

    Dardanians = modern kosovo
    Taulanti = montenegro and north albania
    Liburni = north croatia coastal
    Veneti = North east Italy
    Japodes = Inland croatia
    Delmatae = south croatia and bosnia
    Autariates = serbia
    Noricum = austrai and slovenia
    Histri = istria


    Clearly an indication of a maritime entrance into the area ( adriatic entrance)
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    2008 genetic paper on Illyrians has the following breakup of J haplogroup for illyrians
    It seems that paper is not on Illyrians, but it's done on current population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anatolian chevalier View Post
    Phrygians=Anatolia they are not greek, they allied Troyans(anatolian people)
    Phrygians = Thracians,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    From where did you took that Aromanians are having 25% J2 ?

    I have found a genetic study and only one group of Aromanians,from like 5 or 6 different locations,was having J2 over 20%.
    As Romanians,Aromanians are having mostly I2-din.
    The language that Aromanians are speaking is less closed to Latin,than Romanian is.
    Sure,a Romanian can understand Aromanian and reversed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    From where did you took that Aromanians are having 25% J2 ?

    I have found a genetic study and only one group of Aromanians,from like 5 or 6 different locations,was having J2 over 20%.
    As Romanians,Aromanians are having mostly I2-din.
    The language that Aromanians are speaking is less closed to Latin,than Romanian is.
    Sure,a Romanian can understand Aromanian and reversed.
    Aromanians, are not Romanians, they are ex-legionairies, Officers and local population like Illyrians, etc, who as peasants served the Villas (Villachios)
    using indicator Y-DNA I for vlachs is a wrong way,
    except R1b which is common among among Vlach groups, all other Y-Dna are in different %.

    Romania is Latinized due to Legions, either they would speak Getto-Thracian or Slavic.
    Cinque-ari (Legio V) are not Romanians, neither Serbs, Neither Greeks, Neither Albanians, Neither Bulgarians,
    etc simply they followed and served East Roman empire, and today they decided which nationality to follow,
    Last edited by Yetos; 04-04-16 at 02:34.

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    The Phrygians weren't Anatolians originally. They came to southern Balkans along with other Indo-Europeans probably. So, they were related either with the Greeks or with the Thracians originally but then they settled in modern day Turkey. Thyni and Bythini were Thracian tribes in Anatolia also.

    I believe they belonged in the same group of invaders/immigrants with the Greeks but they split early on and they mixed with different people and formed different identities and language.

    --
    The Vlachs were Dacians and Bessi, according to Kekaumenos (11th century) "from the area in which the Serbians now live", "near Danube and Sava".

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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post

    --
    The Vlachs were Dacians and Bessi, according to Kekaumenos (11th century) "from the area in which the Serbians now live", "near Danube and Sava".
    these are the Cinqueari Vlachs, Τσιντσιρες Τσιντσαρηδες,
    except of them we have Megle-Vlachs which are connected to south of Egnatia Road,
    Koutso-Vlachs which are from lagio 4 and they create Ceasariana (τσαριτσανη)
    Moscho-vlachs which lived at the south End of Egnatia road
    etc etc etc

    comparing their gentick Y-DNA they show big differences among each group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    these are the Cinqueari Vlachs, Τσιντσιρες Τσιντσαρηδες,
    except of them we have Megle-Vlachs which are connected to south of Egnatia Road,
    Koutso-Vlachs which are from lagio 4 and they create Ceasariana (τσαριτσανη)
    Moscho-vlachs which lived at the south End of Egnatia road
    etc etc etc

    comparing their gentick Y-DNA they show big differences among each group.
    You make good point on the Via Egnatia and their settlement.
    I would also like to comment on their name,accepted etymology is that Vlach was early borrowing in Proto-Slavic from Germanic-Walhaz(foreigner)
    Cinqueari Vlachs, Τσιντσιρες "Cincar" denote a "skimp man" because by stereotypes people say that they are skimp,they don't spend money.

    However in our medieval language "Vlach" denote nomad-sheepherder,i don't think that only them were sheepherders.
    The term "Vlach" Vlasi was also apply from Venetians,Croat,Bosnians to believers of eastern orthodox faith and people that live in Dinarid area.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Milan's Avatar
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    Country: Yugoslavia



    [email protected] another name that is connected to Vlachs(Vlasi) which denote sheepherder is that of our "god of cattle" Veles also the stars (Hyades)are named Vlasi after this god in our language,Vlachs were named so because were cattle herders by occupation but like I said this name was also applied to others not only to Romance speakers, with adoption of Christianity might took derogatory connotation,this is god of underworld like Hades,Hermes an important god some further connect this god name Veles to Eleusian fields/ mysteries if you remember we talk about.Note the similarities in naming of the stars Hades(Hyades) with Veles(Vlasi)
    Last edited by Milan; 06-04-16 at 12:06.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Fustan's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12

    Ethnic group
    Albanian
    Country: Albania



    J2b2 is upper-illyrian/Albanian.

  18. #18
    Regular Member DuPidh's Avatar
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    Country: Cuba



    Quote Originally Posted by Fustan View Post
    J2b2 is upper-illyrian/Albanian.
    We don't know who the Illyrians were! Illyrians were an indo European people who introduced the language to the pre Illyrian populations in the Ballkans. Historical evidence is that, at least in south were the Pelasgoi. Linguisticaly Illyrians and Hellenes spoke the same language 5000 years bc when the languages split. That means Helenes and Illyrians share a distant blood connection so its not accurate to say that J2b is an Illyrian haplogroup.

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