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Thread: Iranic words in European languages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    How about numerals and personal pronouns?
    I'm finding a hard time finding Persian or Kurdish written in Latin or phonetic alphabet.
    I took that word from a Farsi course.Did not found cognates between Farsi numerals and Romanian,maybe there are cognates to Slavic or Albanian.
    I just remembered because I had to deal with some Iranian people some word that could also be cognate to Romanian:
    Romanian - urs (bear) - Farsi - hers (bear).
    It is also cognate to Latin ursus for bear.

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    (...continue from #19)
    Latin Cere-b-rum; > fr. Cer-veau; > hisp. Cere-bro; ital. Cer-vello; ~ "the brains, head, top etc.
    And if we are dare enough, maybe we don't mind about the "Sar"-/"Kar"-/"Cer"/-"Cap" but we surely mind -"De-cap-itation"!
    <Capital, (city, econ, letter,<the head, top, etc) Capitalism and another beautifull word "Capitulation!" ~ Compromise. ( i think its time to...)


    I also listen from Albanians the word "Kari"; meaned the -"nuts"; -"the cherries"; -the balls; or the "head";of the snake?! But im sure it connected with the male pride we carry (car-ry???! -naahh.) everyday beetween our legs! http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/...n/laughing.gif (hope an albanian friend help us i dont own an albanian lexicon!)

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    Came to my mind when you mentioned "balls and nuts"

    I do not believe its an Iranic loanword but English eg and the Kurdish word for it which is hêg do resemble each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurpaneus View Post
    Romanian barza- stork
    Albanian bardhe-same meaning
    Gorani barz-high
    Ossetian barz- birch

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Append...European_nouns

    http://www.kavehfarrokh.com/wp-conte...positionof.pdf
    pg169
    Another one:


    Romanian "barz" means "white-spotted".


    So , we have a white-spotted animal(the stork), and a white-spotted tree(the birch).

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurpaneus View Post
    Another one:


    Romanian "barz" means "white-spotted".




    So , we have a white-spotted animal(the stork), and a white-spotted tree(the birch).
    In Farsi there is boland for high.

    In Kurdish there is berêz and bilind for high or as polite form in a title, berêz is used as "your highness"
    Last edited by Alan; 27-05-14 at 18:31.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurpaneus View Post
    Another one:


    Romanian "barz" means "white-spotted".


    So , we have a white-spotted animal(the stork), and a white-spotted tree(the birch).
    Bird called Bażant in polish.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    "Latin Cere-b-rum; > fr. Cer-veau; > hisp. Cere-bro; ital. Cer-vello; ~ "the brains, head, top etc.
    And if we are dare enough, maybe we don't mind about the "Sar"-/"Kar"-/"Cer"/-"Cap" but we surely mind -"De-cap-itation"!"

    The Neuro Lingual root for this word is CRB (TSRB)or better said KRB, which included "Cerebelum" transmuted into HRB with addition of "T"; HRBTN or "KRBT"; it transmuted into Slavic as HRBTENITSA(spine), where HRBET (B-V betatism; "cer-vello,, cerebro..) is a "back"; RURS(US). Transliteration comes from ορεινός, hribovit (hrib; gora Slavic; giri गिरि Sanskrit; "hill"; holm Slovene, Slovak), hev-stan in persian کوهستانی
    so something which is "curved" (krivo, curvus, courbé "hilly",...) and at the "top" (Hirn (head, brains) of something... kara, kira, gora, harna...

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The Polish Bażant does not derive from "Romanian", but it is a Polish version of another slavic word, Fazan. (B - V - Pf - F betatism) or PHEASANT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    The Polish Bażant does not derive from "Romanian", but it is a Polish version of another slavic word, Fazan. (B - V - Pf - F betatism) or PHEASANT.
    They both could have derived from same Indo-European base.

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    Zoroastrian daēnā probably related to Lith. dainà, Rum. doină ‘folk song’

    http://rootsofeurope.ku.dk/kalender/...ie_dichtkunst/


    Also,Persian "danah"- a part of melody sung by women

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    The Polish Bażant does not derive from "Romanian", but it is a Polish version of another slavic word, Fazan. (B - V - Pf - F betatism) or PHEASANT.
    Romanian also got fazan,used for same bird,from where did you reached the conclusion this word is "Slavic"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diurpaneus View Post
    Zoroastrian daēnā probably related to Lith. dainà, Rum. doină ‘folk song’

    http://rootsofeurope.ku.dk/kalender/...ie_dichtkunst/


    Also,Persian "danah"- a part of melody sung by women
    Possible cognate with english "dance" - to move to the music?

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    Persian numerals
    Numeral Transliteration (Persian) فارسى
    ۰ sef صفر 0
    ۱ yek یک 1
    ۲ do دو 2
    ۳ seh سه 3
    ۴ chahaar چهار 4
    ۵ panj پنج 5
    ۶ shesh شش 6
    ۷ haft هفت 7
    ۸ hasht هشت 8
    ۹ noh نه 9
    ۱۰ dah ده 10

    Polish
    1 – jeden
    2 – dwa
    3 – trzy
    4 – cztery
    5 – pięć
    6 – sześć
    7 – siedem
    8 - osiem
    9 – dziewięć
    10 – dziesięć

    I can see similarities in 1,4,5,6 and 2 starts with same letter

    Lithuanian
    1 – vienas
    2 – du
    3 – trys
    4 – keturi
    5 – penki
    6 – šeši
    7 – septyni
    8 – aštuoni
    9 – devyni
    10 – dešimt

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    How about numerals and personal pronouns?
    I'm finding a hard time finding Persian or Kurdish written in Latin or phonetic alphabet.
    I have a booklet about current standardiranian (« persian »)-french (not iranic) : adaptedto phonologic english (proxi) :



    1 = yek – 2 = do – 3 = sé – 4 =tchahâr – 5 = pandj –
    6 = shish – 7 = haft – 8 = hasht –9 = noh – 10 = dah
    20 = bist – 100 = sad – 1000 =hezar
    & : 'e' : short [ay]without diphtong = /e/ not [ee] /i/


    me : man my : am
    thou : to thour (?) : at
    he/she : u his/her : ash
    we : mâ our : mân
    you : shomâ your : tân

    they : anhâ their : shân


    it is just approximation...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    They both could have derived from same Indo-European base.

    You are right and Verdun too on thiscase :



    I-E *bh- gave ph- ingreek, f- in latin, b-in celtic, germanic and slavic,in the most of the cases
    namesas bazan seem moreauthentic in slavic languages, fazan seemsa more recent loanword-
    greek :phasianos >> latinphasianus >> frenchfaisan – all theway direct IE to latine would have given something like fasianus-

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    sorry for having posted numerals without see they were already here!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Persian numerals
    Numeral Transliteration (Persian) فارسى
    ۰ sef صفر 0
    ۱ yek یک 1
    ۲ do دو 2
    ۳ seh سه 3
    ۴ chahaar چهار 4
    ۵ panj پنج 5
    ۶ shesh شش 6
    ۷ haft هفت 7
    ۸ hasht هشت 8
    ۹ noh نه 9
    ۱۰ dah ده 10

    Polish
    1 – jeden
    2 – dwa
    3 – trzy
    4 – cztery
    5 – pięć
    6 – sześć
    7 – siedem
    8 - osiem
    9 – dziewięć
    10 – dziesięć

    I can see similarities in 1,4,5,6 and 2 starts with same letter

    Lithuanian
    1 – vienas
    2 – du
    3 – trys
    4 – keturi
    5 – penki
    6 – šeši
    7 – septyni
    8 – aštuoni
    9 – devyni
    10 – dešimt
    The IE Satem resemblances are obvious,between these languages.
    Here are Albanian numbers to complete the Satem IE languages:

    • 0 - zero
    • 1 - një
    • 2 - dy
    • 3 - tre or tri
    • 4 - katër
    • 5 - pesë
    • 6 - gjashtë
    • 7 - shtatë
    • 8 - tetë
    • 9 - nëntë
    • 10 - dhjetë


    Romanian has :
    2 - doi
    6 - shase
    9 - noua
    which resemble Iranian.

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    "Romanian also got fazan,used for same bird,from where did you reached the conclusion this word is "Slavic"?"
    Who said it is Slavic and why do you think this word is "Romanian"?

    "
    pheasant (n.) late 13c. (mid-12c. as a surname), from Anglo-French fesaunt, Old French faisan (13c.) "pheasant," from Latin phasianus, from Greek phasianos "a pheasant," literally "Phasian bird," from Phasis, river flowing into the Black Sea in Colchis, where the birds were said to have been numerous. The ph- was restored in English late 14c. (see ph). The excrescent -t is due to confusion with -ant suffix of nouns formed from present participle of verbs in first Latin conjugation (peasant, tyrant, etc.). "

    The transliteration of this word peasant in Slavic is "bežant" which derives from "beg" (flee; runner). The Polish version is even more original than Slovene for example which rather took the "F" instead of B, but this was typical for any betatism...

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    Does anybody know what have the "nava" or "nine" noua (9) words in common with devet or devyni? Both words have the same meanings behind... (no it has nothing to do with "loanwords" linguistically).

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    Probably has something to do with nine (devet) months and virgo (devica) LoL

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Possible cognate with english "dance" - to move to the music?
    I don't know about that...

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dance




    Though,some meanings in Sanskrit are quite intriguing:'impel','to move','to run'.

    http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?t...es&beginning=0

    http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?t...es&beginning=0

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    Colors:
    Persian Pronunciation English
    سفید sefid white
    سیاه siyâh black
    مشکی meški black
    خاکستری xâkestari gray
    توسی tusi dark gray
    نقره ای noqrei silver
    آبی âbi blue
    بنفش banafš violet
    سبز sabz green
    قرمز qermez red
    سرخ sorx red hot
    صورتی surati pink
    قهوه ای qahvei brown
    زرد zard yellow
    طلایی talâyi gold
    لیمویی limuyi lemon
    نارنجی nârenji orange

    Any cognates with European languages?

    Perhaps a bit with Polish:
    Gray - Szary (shari)
    Yellow - żółty, Croatian- žut


    Lithuanian
    black juoda
    blue mėlyna
    brown ruda
    gray pilka
    green žalia
    orange apelsinas
    purple violetinė
    red raudona
    white balta
    yellow geltona

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Colors:
    Persian Pronunciation English
    سفید sefid white
    سیاه siyâh black
    مشکی meški black
    خاکستری xâkestari gray
    توسی tusi dark gray
    نقره ای noqrei silver
    آبی âbi blue
    بنفش banafš violet
    سبز sabz green
    قرمز qermez red
    سرخ sorx red hot
    صورتی surati pink
    قهوه ای qahvei brown
    زرد zard yellow
    طلایی talâyi gold
    لیمویی limuyi lemon
    نارنجی nârenji orange

    Any cognates with European languages?

    Perhaps a bit with Polish:
    Gray - Szary (shari)
    Yellow - żółty, Croatian- žut


    Lithuanian
    black juoda
    blue mėlyna
    brown ruda
    gray pilka
    green žalia
    orange apelsinas
    purple violetinė
    red raudona
    white balta
    yellow geltona
    Kurdish English
    spî ; beyaz white
    resh black
    siyah black
    gewr grey
    zîv ; zîm silver
    shîn blue
    binefshî violet
    kesk green
    sor red
    pembe pink
    esmer brown
    zer(d) yellow
    zêr gold
    narinc orange
    lîmonî lemon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Kurdish English
    spî ; beyaz white
    resh black
    siyah black
    gewr grey
    zîv ; zîm silver
    shîn blue
    binefshî violet
    kesk green
    sor red
    pembe pink
    esmer brown
    zer(d) yellow
    zêr gold
    narinc orange
    lîmonî lemon
    In Slavic white is "byali" (phoneticaly).

    There are also possible cognates with gold and yellow.
    Last edited by LeBrok; 31-05-14 at 18:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    In Slavic white is "byali" (phoneticaly).

    Possible cognates with gold and yellow.
    Now as comparison Turkish

    Turkish English
    beyaz (loanword) white
    siyah (Iranic loanword) black
    karra(Arabic loan) black/dark
    boz grey
    gümüsh silver
    mavi (arabic loanword) blue
    menekshe ( turkified version of Iranic benefshe) violet
    yeshil green
    kirmizi (arabic loanword) red
    pembe (Iranic loanword) pink
    Kahve rengi (Kahve arabic and renk Iranic loanword) brown
    sari yellow
    altin gold
    turuncu (Iranic loan) orange
    lîmon lemon


    Full of loanwords. Not unsual for Turkish, from my knowledge it would be hard to form two sentence without using a loanword. Turkish is very dependent on loanwords, especially Iranian.

    Irony is that the Turkish state was promoting (and some circles still do) the Kurdish language as some sort of Persian/Turkish mix because they tended to claim that those words shared between Kurdish and Turkish are loans into Kurdish while in reality it's the opposite. Out of these three tongues Kurdish is the least foreign influenced language. In fact with an up to 90% of own vocabulary Kurdish is one of the purest, if not purest ( no exxageration here) Iranic tongues still alive. Persian for examples has a vocabulary of ~30% loans, while in Turkish it's up to 60%.

    I mean how brazen must someone be to be able to claim someones tongue is some kind of "bastard" while you yourself speak in a tongue which is much better suited for this classification.

    By the way here is were I got my information about the loans into Turkish. The official website of Turkish linguism.
    http://tdk.gov.tr/index.php?option=c...953f1.82916261
    Last edited by Alan; 01-06-14 at 13:33.

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