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Thread: Iranic words in European languages.

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    and which is this story?

    IN FACT HE SUPPORTS WHAT I SAY, READ BETTER, no need to copy.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    In Hungarian Language there are many loanwords from Iranic, and these loanwords are close to Ossetic,
    These Hungarian words, presumably borrowed from proto-Ossetian you can find in ->
    Collection of works of Abaev "Ossetian Language and Folklore" (USSR Academy of Sciences, 1949).

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Goran in Kurdish language means shepherd from mountains. There is similar word in Slavic (at least West and East Slavs, not sure about South ones) Goral meaning inhabitant of the mountains, the highlander. Gora means hill/mountain.



    I wonder if word Kurgan has Scythian origin, meaning hill, mound? Wikipedia says it is Turkic and Mongolian, but we know that their cultures were heavily influenced by nomadic Scythians.
    Le Brok look what I found. German Wikipedia.

    Das Urartäische Reich auch kurz Urarṭu, (urartäisch Biainili, assyrischKURArtaya KURURI akkadisch KURUraštu, biblisch vermutlich Ararat)
    Urartu was called in Assyrian and Akkadian KUR Artaya and KUR Urastu.


    Mitanni (Hittite cuneiform KUR URUMi-ta-an-ni, also Mittani Mi-it-ta-ni)

    Again indication for KUR beeing a geographic term which describes the mountainous highlands? Kurgan = hill/mountain?

    I also still hold on my statemeant that KUR for mountain in Sumerian is an allusion on the Gutians which were a nomadic mountainous people and who lived in the highlands of this area.
    Last edited by Alan; 29-07-14 at 03:27.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    Haha,just found this one,is excelent!
    Iranian/Farsi - dest - hand = romanian deget - finger
    To understand this more clear,in Farsi you pronounce hand - dast while old Romanian form for deget was desht
    The current form of deget was "adjusted" to be cognate with Latin Digitus,meh.
    And to see,in Albanian finger is gisht - clear cognate with Romanian desht and Iranian dast.
    EDIT:
    Forgot to add gisht in Albanian also means hand,not only finger.
    You had it right Albanian: finger=gisht (not hand)
    Hand=Dora; That's why some Albanians claim that Dorian Greeks were an Albanian tribe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert6 View Post
    In Hungarian Language there are many loanwords from Iranic, and these loanwords are close to Ossetic,
    These Hungarian words, presumably borrowed from proto-Ossetian you can find in ->
    Collection of works of Abaev "Ossetian Language and Folklore" (USSR Academy of Sciences, 1949).
    Right, we completely forgot about Ossetians. From all the Iranic languages they've remained the closest to Eastern Europeans and influenced each others.
    There is no doubt that Hungarians being in Asian Steppe must have been influenced by Iranian language of Saka and Sarmatians too.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Here is a nice compilation of few words found on Ossetian page on Wiki:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossetian_language


    Meaning fire month new mother sister night nose three red yellow green wolf
    Translations into different languages
    Ossetian арт
    art
    мæй
    mæy
    нæуæг
    næwæg
    мад
    mad
    хо
    xo
    æхсæв
    æxsæv
    фындз
    fındz
    æртæ
    ærtæ
    сырх
    sırx
    бур
    bur
    цъæх
    ts'æx
    бирæгъ
    biræğ
    Pashto اور
    ōr
    مياشت
    myāšt
    نوی
    nəway
    مور
    mōr
    خور
    xōr
    شپه
    špa
    پوزه
    pōza
    درې
    drē
    سور
    sur
    زيړ
    zyaṛ
    شين
    šin
    لېوه
    lēwə
    Kurdish agir / ar meh/heyv nu mak/dayik xwişk şev poz sor zerd/bor kesk/şîn gur / wir
    Persian آتش
    ātaš
    ماه
    māh
    نو
    now
    مادر
    mādar
    خواهر
    xāhar
    شب
    šab
    بینی / پوزه
    poze / bini
    سه
    se
    سرخ
    sorx
    بور/ زرد
    zard / bur
    سبز
    sabz
    گرگ
    gorg
    Sanskrit agni/atar māsa nava matr svasr rātri/nakta nāsa tri rudhira peeta harita vrka
    Hindustani āg mahīna nayā behn rāt nāk tīn lāl pīlā harā bheyrryā
    German Feuer Monat neu Mutter Schwester Nacht Nase drei rot gelb grün Wolf
    Latin ignis mēnsis novus māter soror nox nasus trēs ruber flāvus, gilvus viridis lupus
    Greek φωτιά
    fotiá
    μήνας
    minas
    νέος
    neos
    μητέρα
    mitera
    αδελφή
    adhelfi
    νύχτα
    nihta
    μύτη
    miti
    τρία
    tria
    ερυθρός
    erithros
    κίτρινος
    kitrinos
    πράσσινος
    prassinos
    λύκος
    likos
    Armenian հուր
    hur
    ամիս
    amis
    նոր
    nor
    մայր
    mayr
    քույր
    kouyr
    գիշեր
    gisher
    քիթ
    kit
    երեք
    yerek
    կարմիր
    karmir
    դեղին
    deghin
    կանաչ
    kanach
    գայլ
    gayl
    Lithuanian ugnis mėnuo naujas motina sesuo naktis nosis trys raudona geltona žalias vilkas
    Russian огонь
    ogonǐ
    месяц
    mesâc
    новый
    novyj
    мать
    matǐ
    сестра
    sestra
    ночь
    nochǐ
    нос
    nos
    три
    tri
    красный, рыжий
    krasnyj, ryžij
    жёлтый
    žëltyj
    зелёный
    zelënyj
    волк
    volk
    Irish tine nua máthair deirfiúr oíche srón trí dearg/rua buí glas faolchú

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    @Le Brok
    the Greek you wrote are the modern greek, there are lot of differences
    for example fire in modern is φωτια but comes from φως fos= light means the fire the spreads light (Phaun in some celtic)
    πυρ cognates with Germanic feuer and british fire,
    the flame is φλοξ Φλογος flox compare british flame

    μυτη for noise is much much later,
    the original ancient for nose is ρις ρινος (rhino like ρινοκερος (κερας= horn ρις=nose rhinokeros = horn on nose)

    Green has 2 versions
    the grass green which is χλωρος (chloe) compare Slavic zeleno (χ (ch) centum z satem)
    the copper kypros (cypros) green which is (κυ)πρασσινος


    etc

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    """""""There is no doubt that Hungarians being in Asian Steppe must have been influenced by Iranian language of Saka and Sarmatians too.""""""
    Hungarian Szekelys have also haplogroups G2a1a1a Z7940, Q1a1b1 L712, G2a3b1a1b1 L1264,
    and Ossetians have these haplogroups


    Maybe the name "Szekelys(Sekey)" have some conection to the name "Sakae"


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    Interestingly Sankrit listed words, from the table above, have all cognates in Slavic and Baltic languages, except the colours. Much more than with Iranian languages, Ossetian included.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Here is a nice compilation of few words found on Ossetian page on Wiki:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossetian_language


    Meaning fire month new mother sister night nose three red yellow green wolf
    Translations into different languages
    Ossetian арт
    art
    мæй
    mæy
    нæуæг
    næwæg
    мад
    mad
    хо
    xo
    æхсæв
    æxsæv
    фындз
    fındz
    æртæ
    ærtæ
    сырх
    sırx
    бур
    bur
    цъæх
    ts'æx
    бирæгъ
    biræğ
    Pashto اور
    ōr
    مياشت
    myāšt
    نوی
    nəway
    مور
    mōr
    خور
    xōr
    شپه
    špa
    پوزه
    pōza
    درې
    drē
    سور
    sur
    زيړ
    zyaṛ
    شين
    šin
    لېوه
    lēwə
    Kurdish agir / ar meh/heyv nu mak/dayik xwişk şev poz sor zerd/bor kesk/şîn gur / wir
    Persian آتش
    ātaš
    ماه
    māh
    نو
    now
    مادر
    mādar
    خواهر
    xāhar
    شب
    šab
    بینی / پوزه
    poze / bini
    سه
    se
    سرخ
    sorx
    بور/ زرد
    zard / bur
    سبز
    sabz
    گرگ
    gorg
    Sanskrit agni/atar māsa nava matr svasr rātri/nakta nāsa tri rudhira peeta harita vrka
    Hindustani āg mahīna nayā behn rāt nāk tīn lāl pīlā harā bheyrryā
    German Feuer Monat neu Mutter Schwester Nacht Nase drei rot gelb grün Wolf
    Latin ignis mēnsis novus māter soror nox nasus trēs ruber flāvus, gilvus viridis lupus
    Greek φωτιά
    fotiá
    μήνας
    minas
    νέος
    neos
    μητέρα
    mitera
    αδελφή
    adhelfi
    νύχτα
    nihta
    μύτη
    miti
    τρία
    tria
    ερυθρός
    erithros
    κίτρινος
    kitrinos
    πράσσινος
    prassinos
    λύκος
    likos
    Armenian հուր
    hur
    ամիս
    amis
    նոր
    nor
    մայր
    mayr
    քույր
    kouyr
    գիշեր
    gisher
    քիթ
    kit
    երեք
    yerek
    կարմիր
    karmir
    դեղին
    deghin
    կանաչ
    kanach
    գայլ
    gayl
    Lithuanian ugnis mėnuo naujas motina sesuo naktis nosis trys raudona geltona žalias vilkas
    Russian огонь
    ogonǐ
    месяц
    mesâc
    новый
    novyj
    мать
    matǐ
    сестра
    sestra
    ночь
    nochǐ
    нос
    nos
    три
    tri
    красный, рыжий
    krasnyj, ryžij
    жёлтый
    žëltyj
    зелёный
    zelënyj
    волк
    volk
    Irish tine nua máthair deirfiúr oíche srón trí dearg/rua buí glas faolchú
    quite a few correction.

    In Kurdish for English new, "nu and newe" is in use. For moon, "meh/meng and heyv" while heyv means rather month. For nose additional to "poz" also "firnik" is in use. An depending on dialect some people say sur instead sor for the color red.
    Last edited by Alan; 30-07-14 at 13:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Interestingly Sankrit listed words, from the table above, have all cognates in Slavic and Baltic languages, except the colours. Much more than with Iranian languages, Ossetian included.
    It's because Sanskrit was written down in holy documents and stayed very pure to it's root. While Iranic languages tended to loudshift allot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert6 View Post
    In Hungarian Language there are many loanwords from Iranic, and these loanwords are close to Ossetic,
    These Hungarian words, presumably borrowed from proto-Ossetian you can find in ->
    Collection of works of Abaev "Ossetian Language and Folklore" (USSR Academy of Sciences, 1949).
    Hungarian beeing a Uralic language(just like Caucasic and Altaic languages too) was in permanent contact with Iranic steppe tribes. Not only that Alanians did settle in Hungary. There are still the Jasz there too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Interestingly Sankrit listed words, from the table above, have all cognates in Slavic and Baltic languages, except the colours. Much more than with Iranian languages, Ossetian included.
    As a Baltic speaker I can testify that whilst random sanskrit text appears to make some random sense by a word or expression or at least recognizable once correct Latvian/Lithuanian cognate is guessed, Persian is not familiar at all to me. So I dont believe Lithuanian being closest European language to Persian :)

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    Persian language is very similar to French. However, that is a misleading association, since many words were introduced when Persians learned French and used such words in everyday language.

    Examples:
    Cadeau (present)
    Ascenseur (elevator)
    Alo (hello)
    I cannot think of any other examples at the top of my head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It is amazing, in Polish too, "buzia", lips/kiss/face depending on context.

    This one is common too, polish żona, russian жена - wife.
    By all means, read up and contribute new words. :)
    The Romanian 'buze' came,most likely,from Getae-Thracian.See 'Buzes'(pg. 6/10),also the Romance cognates:

    http://www.academia.edu/1300082/Two_...01_1-4_p._5-17


    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/basium

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    It is one of the most excitement threads, i will try to be synoptic cause my english are not satisfactory enough to describe but most likely to report or re-transmit. Allthough some of the opininions which are followed are not strictly mine but they "sound" very reliable to me. (caution! I am not a glossologist and either not a scholar. I am a school bus driver, i drive pupil's to the point !!!)


    Some people considered that Greeks is not a European language so maybe iam from the beginning off topic, but on the other hand historically/culturally the Persians and the Greeks are very close related and the greek language with the europeans, so except all the previous posts i will try to give some everyday words which not always the etymon is identified but the use in some cases are very obvious.
    Probably many of them are comming also from the Ottoman era which -i consider Greco-/Persian child(π).-


    pe:Persic, gr:Greeks
    (colours+fruits)
    pe:*
    لیمویی limuyi
    lemoni;= the fruit lemon, gr:λεμόνι, // the yellow, gr: λεμονί (by except, to derify from the other yellows like -κίτρινο,-κροκί
    pe:*
    نارنجی nârenji
    neranji;= the fruit, from Esperides family gr: νεράντζι, τζάνερα we derify it from the common orange fruit, for its sour taste.



    pe:*
    قهوه ای qahvei
    kaffe;= the product of the coofee beens, gr: καφές, the beverage drink.// gr: καφέ, the brown colour (dark), the light brown= ώχρα. maybe kaffe have an arabian origin and inserted as a term to iranian and to the anatolians later (?)(the origin of the beens and the beverage drink originate to Ethiopia)


    How beutifull the words taste! How nice the words coloured!


    *(as Le brok posted #47)

    (Π= personal opinions)

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Which European language is closest in relation to Iranic language?
    Perhaps this can help us to find missing tribes of Sarmatians and Scythians among modern populations.
    To answer your original question, the Scytho-Sarmatian languages are part of the Indo-Iranic branch of the Indo-European languages. There is one living Scytho-Sarmatian language, Ossetian, spoken today in the Caucasus.

    Beyond that, amongst the modern Iranic languages, you of course have Persian (Farsi), Kurdish and Pashtoo that are relatives. Amongst the Indic languages, you have Hindi-Urdu and the Gypsi (Romani) languages. But they're all not particularly close because you have to consider that Scytho-Sarmatian, West-Iranic (e.g. Persian) and Indic were already different (albeit similar) languages in ancient times (think about Mitanni loanwords, Avestan, Old Persian and Vedic Sanskrit).

    Outside of Indo-Iranic, where you have similarities are with Balto-Slavic (by merit of being Satem languages), as well as Greek and Armenian (the commonality here is the development *s- > *h-, but Greek of course is a Centum language). Again, these are ancient commonalities.

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    @Taranis thank you for being here! (always welcome in Athens to my place whenever!)

    pe: persics gr: greeks


    items and materials
    pe: schal= women cloth covering the shoulders and the back of the neck. gr : the σάλι


    pe pambak=the cotton as plant and as fabric gr: βαμβάκι ( some historians believe that macedonian armour cloth fabricated from cotton) (?)


    pe:divan= the official boardroom (for the ottomans) gr: ντιβάνι, a specifc daybed with storage! (it describes perfectly the life of padisach, sultan, monarchs etc. Prosperity makes you lazy!)


    pe: shatranji= the chess, gr : ζατρίκιο (persian origin game; Some consider as inventor the -Παλαμήδης,(Homer's Iliad),by far more clever than bloody Odysseus!!!)


    units and measurements
    pe: farsang= ~5200 meters gr: Παρασάγγας metaphorically we mean -opposite, the other dinstant thesis...from the other side etc.


    pe:پول (~para)= currency, money; but also "the part of"..,ration; portion; gr: παράδες or παράς (the money), i believe there is lot to tell about -para<from "-pr" , which maybe is from a big family root of many I.E languages,an example Latin "per"or "prae" //gr: πέρα, περί,πρίν ,πρός,πέρας, πόρος... // ex. English para-suit (?) para-psychology(?)...etc


    pe:pairi daêza (?)pardez = the surrounded by wall. pairi =περί and daêza = τοίχος (wall)gr : παράδεισος= paradise with the meaning of perivolos περίβολος/ περιβόλι= enviroment/garden so all together the "enclosured garden" !!!
    How representative with the architect of the islamic gardens...






    some interesting cases
    pe:... gr: μαζδαισμός the religion of the Medes- Μήδοι (Ahura mazda- the brothers Ormuz & Ariman)
    Mazda the cars; Wankel motor is trully divine! Rx-8 rocks!
    pe: Magus gr: Μάγος= the magician, the root mag is very interesting, > Μάγειρος= the cooker, Μαγειρείο= kitchen, cook store etc.) making cheese is magical !!!


    semanticaly non verified loans= hypothetical maybe's?
    pe:تیارا، (tiara) gr: τιάρα = crown or the cover on the top of authorities like archibishops, like diadem -διάδημα or mitra-μίτρα
    (caution) i cannot find how is related with homerical -μίτρα, which respond to part of the armour covering of the belly, also probably not related with Mithraism<Mithras<gr: Μίθρας, Μείθρας = Persian god of light<Avestan; Bedic; Sanskrit; mitra/mithra = friend, and also as an agreement


    pe;sisani gr: σισανές= μουσκέτο, the one shot and front loaded riffle
    pe:ستاره gr: αστέρας =the star < Ι.Ε -ster~ dispersed;> stern, stellar, satelite; etc





    I am very enthusiastic about Iran/Persia if you also
    some links for the Achaemenids, lot to search about...
    http://www.achemenet.com/pdf/call.pdf
    http://www.museum-achemenet.college-de-france.fr/ very good !
    http://www.nino-leiden.nl/publications.aspx?id=10


    for some of the above
    http://www.ellinopedia.com/ellinika/...lliniki-glossa
    and
    Ετυμολογικό λεξικό Αξ. καθ. Ι. Μπαμπινιώτη (my Holy bible!)

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The Mokshas (branch of the Finnic peoples) live in Eastern Europe and have many words(pastoralist terminology mostly) close to Ossetian words

    Moksha
    Syada = hundred
    Ossetian
    Sædæ = hundred


    Moksha
    Veroz = lamb
    Ossetian
    Uærykk = lamb


    Moksha
    Mirde = husband
    Ossetian
    Mard = dead man

    Moksha
    Vrgaz = wolf
    Old Ossetian
    Uarhag = wolf

    Moksha
    bas bavas bavaz = god , happiness
    Ossetian
    Fes = happiness


    Moksha
    syrne=gold
    Ossetian
    zærin = gold


    Moksha
    vaz = calf
    Ossetian
    uæs = calf


    Moksha
    syava = goat
    Ossetian
    tsæw / sæg' = goat


    Moksha
    uræś, urozi = castrated boar
    Ossetian
    uæraz = wild boar

  20. #95
    Regular Member ΠΑΝΑΞ's Avatar
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    @Robert, the case of goat (ossetian) is very interesting "-sæg' for somehow is close with gr:- Αίγα (?!) ~Aegha; (goat)
    -Aegean sea? ...No the goats cannot swim but they can drink salted water...


  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ΠΑΝΑΞ View Post
    @Robert, the case of goat (ossetian) is very interesting "-sæg' for somehow is close with gr:- Αίγα (?!) ~Aegha; (goat)
    -Aegean sea? ...No the goats cannot swim but they can drink salted water...

    In Ossetian it is
    male goat = tsæw,, τσαιυ / τσαιου (αι ~ ε)
    female goat = sægh,, σαιγ (αι ~ ε)

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert6 View Post
    In Ossetian it is
    male goat = tsæw,, τσαιυ / τσαιου (αι ~ ε)
    female goat = sægh,, σαιγ (αι ~ ε)
    About
    Ossetian ~ Greek
    sægh(σαιγ) ~ αιγα
    tsi kanis(τσι κάνις) ~ τί κάνεις;
    Nom(Νομ) ~ Όνομα
    and many other cognates
    There is also a theory
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeco-Aryan

  23. #98
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    Is this a joke?
    Moksha
    Mirde = husband
    Ossetian
    Mard = dead man

    Husband cognate with dead man?

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    Is this a joke?
    Moksha
    Mirde = husband
    Ossetian
    Mard = dead man

    Husband cognate with dead man?
    It is easy
    mortal >> dead man
    mortal >> man >> husband

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    There another word in Romanian,which is quite common in other languages,cioban,which Hasdeu is telling that it was from Dacian (Indo-Iranian) language.
    He makes an extensive demonstration and he shows Armenians are also using this word for shepherd .
    Now,most linguists are saying cioban is coming from Turkic,but I do not know Turks to have as traditional raising sheep .
    As Alan said, choban is an Iranian word. Warlike nomadic Turkic tribes have adopted it when they crossed the Iranian plateau in II.nd millenia BC.

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