Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 102

Thread: Iranic words in European languages.

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,294

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Iranic words in European languages.

    Which European language is closest in relation to Iranic language?
    Perhaps this can help us to find missing tribes of Sarmatians and Scythians among modern populations.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    13-01-12
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    943

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    proly R1B

    Ethnic group
    Romanian
    Country: Romania



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Which European language is closest in relation to Iranic language?
    Perhaps this can help us to find missing tribes of Sarmatians and Scythians among modern populations.
    I know Albanian is most closed,with most cognates,but I do not speak Albanian.
    Anyway,Romanian got cognates from Iranian also.
    There is a famous book in Romania,written by greatest Romanian linguist ,name Bogdan Petriceicu Hasdeu called "Pierit-au dacii?" ("Did the Dacians perished?").
    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdan_Petriceicu_Hasdeu)
    He gives clear examples of words from Romanian cognates with Indo-Iranic languages.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    04-07-12
    Posts
    98


    Country: Albania



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    I know Albanian is most closed,with most cognates,but I do not speak Albanian.
    Anyway,Romanian got cognates from Iranian also.
    There is a famous book in Romania,written by greatest Romanian linguist ,name Bogdan Petriceicu Hasdeu called "Pierit-au dacii?" ("Did the Dacians perished?").
    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdan_Petriceicu_Hasdeu)
    He gives clear examples of words from Romanian cognates with Indo-Iranic languages.
    Albanian is not the closest to Indo-Iranian, at least not more than Balto-Slavic is, in the sense they're all Satem languages. Albanian, or rather Proto-Albanian as what led to modern Albanian included about a millennium of Romance influence, is closest to Baltic (Orel). Baltic languages have most cognates with Albanian, and second would be Greek. Then Germanic cognates are the third biggest. Celtic not so much, pretty insignificant, and the number of cognates with Armenian can be counted in one hand.(A Coincise Historical Grammar of the Albanian language)

    buza though, it's an Albanian wanderwort, not Indo-Iranian, although I think it means face in Polish. It's related to Latin basium 'kiss'.

    Romanian has a significant number of loanwords from Albanian (from there some have passed into Polish and Ukrainian). For example Albanian sorra with Romanian cioara, 'crow'. We know it's a loanword not substratum because the Proto-Albanian form was *shtsharna (transliterated, I can't copy paste special characters for some reason). On the other hand Romanian does have some cognates with Albanian like modhulla, mazura 'pea', which can't be explained as a loanword. That's the Paleo-Balkanic substratum. But these are not Indo-Iranian. Albanian is not Indo-Iranian, it's its own family. But they are Satem languages, so of course they have similarities.

    Really though, where does hudhra 'garlic' (cognate with Greek σκόρδο) comes from?

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    13-01-12
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    943

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    proly R1B

    Ethnic group
    Romanian
    Country: Romania



    Quote Originally Posted by Zemra View Post
    Albanian is not the closest to Indo-Iranian, at least not more than Balto-Slavic is, in the sense they're all Satem languages. Albanian, or rather Proto-Albanian as what led to modern Albanian included about a millennium of Romance influence, is closest to Baltic (Orel). Baltic languages have most cognates with Albanian, and second would be Greek. Then Germanic cognates are the third biggest. Celtic not so much, pretty insignificant, and the number of cognates with Armenian can be counted in one hand.(A Coincise Historical Grammar of the Albanian language)

    buza though, it's an Albanian wanderwort, not Indo-Iranian, although I think it means face in Polish. It's related to Latin basium 'kiss'.

    Romanian has a significant number of loanwords from Albanian (from there some have passed into Polish and Ukrainian). For example Albanian sorra with Romanian cioara, 'crow'. We know it's a loanword not substratum because the Proto-Albanian form was *shtsharna (transliterated, I can't copy paste special characters for some reason). On the other hand Romanian does have some cognates with Albanian like modhulla, mazura 'pea', which can't be explained as a loanword. That's the Paleo-Balkanic substratum. But these are not Indo-Iranian. Albanian is not Indo-Iranian, it's its own family. But they are Satem languages, so of course they have similarities.

    Really though, where does hudhra 'garlic' (cognate with Greek σκόρδο) comes from?
    I can hear very clear how the R pronounced in Albanian is very closed if not identical to how R is pronounced in Iranian.
    For Slavic I also heard clear resemblances of the sounds to Iranian.
    But what clearly shows the common origin is the very closed folklore from Serbia,Montenegro,Albania with the folklore from North Iran.
    Besides,on some more detailed autosomal tests there is no Baltic admixture in Albanians (neither in South Slavs) but there is some Eastern Balkanic admixture in Baltic people.
    There is Eastern Balkanic in Ukraine,in Russia (I guess in Poland and West Slavs also).
    Which I think shows that Satem IE languages spread from SE Europe towards NE Europe and North Europe.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    04-07-12
    Posts
    98


    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    I can hear very clear how the R pronounced in Albanian is very closed if not identical to how R is pronounced in Iranian.
    For Slavic I also heard clear resemblances of the sounds to Iranian.
    But what clearly shows the common origin is the very closed folklore from Serbia,Montenegro,Albania with the folklore from North Iran.
    Besides,on some more detailed autosomal tests there is no Baltic admixture in Albanians (neither in South Slavs) but there is some Eastern Balkanic admixture in Baltic people.
    There is Eastern Balkanic in Ukraine,in Russia (I guess in Poland and West Slavs also).
    Which I think shows that Satem IE languages spread from SE Europe towards NE Europe and North Europe.
    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    I can hear very clear how the R pronounced in Albanian is very closed if not identical to how R is pronounced in Iranian.
    For Slavic I also heard clear resemblances of the sounds to Iranian.
    But what clearly shows the common origin is the very closed folklore from Serbia,Montenegro,Albania with the folklore from North Iran.
    Besides,on some more detailed autosomal tests there is no Baltic admixture in Albanians (neither in South Slavs) but there is some Eastern Balkanic admixture in Baltic people.
    There is Eastern Balkanic in Ukraine,in Russia (I guess in Poland and West Slavs also).
    Which I think shows that Satem IE languages spread from SE Europe towards NE Europe and North Europe.

    First point means absolutely nothing. How do you think -t- or -d-in the middle of the words is pronounced in English? Exactly like that Iranian r you describe. But that's not the Albanian r though, it's soft too, but no. Besides, Albanian does not have one r pronounciation, it also has the Spanish rr, and the distinction between the two is important as it changes the meaning of the words.

    Second point, languages spoken next to each other tend to resemble each other in phonetics. You can make a case on Basque as well, to someone who simply hears it and has no idea what that is will say sounds Spanish, but doesn't use Spanish words.

    Third point, are you aware of Proto-Indo-European religion? Are you aware of cultural exchanges through trade routes?

    Fourth, languages spread faster than people.

    Lastly, Satem/Kentum do not make a subfamily of Indo-European. It's a way of describing languages. This ties in with the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th points.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,969

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemra View Post
    Fourth, languages spread faster than people.

    Lastly, Satem/Kentum do not make a subfamily of Indo-European. It's a way of describing languages. This ties in with the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th points.
    E? (means what?)

    1) How a language is spread faster than people?
    can I speak chinese before i hear or someone teach me?

    maybe the wind carry and spread chinese, before a china man come and speak to me,

    2) do yoy Believe that from a satem language can sprung a centum one? or oposite?
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  7. #7
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,294

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Scythian - English
    dava, don - river
    vay - wind
    yava - barley
    arp - deep
    oior - man
    pata - kill
    arima - one
    spu - eye

  8. #8
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,294

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Historic distribution of Iranic Languages:


    Modern distribution:

  9. #9
    Elite member
    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,517

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Historic distribution of Iranic Languages:


    Modern distribution:
    LeBrok this map from Wikipedia (as allot of things there when it becomes political) is not totally correct.

    I prefer to use the linguistic map of Columbia univiersity. Open link in another tap to enlarge the map.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    13-01-12
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    943

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    proly R1B

    Ethnic group
    Romanian
    Country: Romania



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Some cognates between Iranian and Romanian:
    Iranian Romanian
    booseh - kiss - buze (pronounced almost same) - lips
    In Albanian there is also buza - lip.
    jwrab - sock ciorap - sock - pronunciation is very closed. Albanian got also ciorape (sorry is quite hard to explain how ci is pronounced in Romanian,is like the Slavic C is pronounced.)
    This word is told to come from Turkic,but is quite too much coincidence to come in Romanian,Albanian and Iranic/Persian/Farsi from Turkic.
    Besides,it has 2 vowels one after another which is not that often in Turkic,but quite often in Romanian.
    For example another word,cioara (crow) having cognate Albanian sorrë .
    zena - woman - zana - romanian - fairy
    There are other words,but is quite hard to get,I need to open the book and read .

  11. #11
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,294

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    Some cognates between Iranian and Romanian:
    Iranian Romanian
    booseh - kiss - buze (pronounced almost same) - lips
    In Albanian there is also buza - lip.
    It is amazing, in Polish too, "buzia", lips/kiss/face depending on context.

    zena - woman - zana - romanian - fairy
    This one is common too, polish żona, russian жена - wife.
    There are other words,but is quite hard to get,I need to open the book and read .
    By all means, read up and contribute new words. :)

  12. #12
    Earl Maleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-14
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,920

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    EV13 A7136 y18675G+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Malta



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It is amazing, in Polish too, "buzia", lips/kiss/face depending on context.
    Boosaa is also kiss in Arabic. Its Bewsa in Maltese so this word seems to have gone round abit

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    13-01-12
    Location
    Bucharest
    Posts
    943

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    proly R1B

    Ethnic group
    Romanian
    Country: Romania



    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Boosaa is also kiss in Arabic. Its Bewsa in Maltese so this word seems to have gone round abit
    Well it is well known that was strong contact between Persians and Arabs.
    But it was no contact between Romanians,Albanians and Arabs.

  14. #14
    Elite member
    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,517

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Boosaa is also kiss in Arabic. Its Bewsa in Maltese so this word seems to have gone round abit
    This word is a "hear sound". It exists in allot of linguistic groups. I say hear loud because they are based on the sounds you hear when you kiss someone. They have no "real linguistic" background.

    Miau for a cat sound is a similar case.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    14-12-11
    Location
    Bărăgan
    Posts
    249

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Argeș(~SER+MAC)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Walati(Vlachs)

    Ethnic group
    Thraco-Roman
    Country: Romania



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It is amazing, in Polish too, "buzia", lips/kiss/face depending on context.

    This one is common too, polish żona, russian жена - wife.
    By all means, read up and contribute new words. :)
    The Romanian 'buze' came,most likely,from Getae-Thracian.See 'Buzes'(pg. 6/10),also the Romance cognates:

    http://www.academia.edu/1300082/Two_...01_1-4_p._5-17


    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/basium

  16. #16
    Elite member
    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,517

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Closest to Indo_Iranic languages would probably be Balto_Slavic, Greek, Albanian and Armenian I would say.

    If Thracian,Dacian, Tocharian and Hittite still existed they would probably come first place.

  17. #17
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,294

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Closest to Indo_Iranic languages would probably be Balto_Slavic, Greek, Albanian and Armenian I would say.
    Do you mean in this order?

    If Thracian,Dacian, Tocharian and Hittite still existed they would probably come first place.
    It makes sense. Usually the neighborly languages have biggest influence on each other and closer relation.

  18. #18
    Elite member
    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,517

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Do you mean in this order?

    I am not sure about the order.

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    14-12-11
    Location
    Bărăgan
    Posts
    249

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Argeș(~SER+MAC)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Walati(Vlachs)

    Ethnic group
    Thraco-Roman
    Country: Romania



    Romanian barza- stork
    Albanian bardhe-same meaning
    Gorani barz-high
    Ossetian barz- birch

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Append...European_nouns

    http://www.kavehfarrokh.com/wp-conte...positionof.pdf
    pg169
    Romanian bucuros -happy
    Albanian bukurosh-handsome
    Sogdian bukharak-place of good fortune

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukhara

  20. #20
    Elite member
    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,517

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Diurpaneus View Post
    Romanian barza- stork
    Albanian bardhe-same meaning
    Gorani barz-high
    Ossetian barz- birch

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Append...European_nouns

    http://www.kavehfarrokh.com/wp-conte...positionof.pdf
    pg169
    Romanian bucuros -happy
    Albanian bukurosh-handsome
    Sogdian bukharak-place of good fortune

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bukhara
    Something else which has caught my attention.


    Among Kurds there is a linguistic group called Gorani. On the Balkans there is a ethno-linguistic group called also Gorani.

    Among Kurds there is an linguistic group called Zoran and Zoran exists as male name. On the Balkans I have heard Zoran exists also as male name is that true?

  21. #21
    Regular Member Ike's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-12-10
    Posts
    1,128


    Country: Yugoslavia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Something else which has caught my attention.


    Among Kurds there is a linguistic group called Gorani. On the Balkans there is a ethno-linguistic group called also Gorani.

    Among Kurds there is an linguistic group called Zoran and Zoran exists as male name. On the Balkans I have heard Zoran exists also as male name is that true?
    Yep, both true.

  22. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    14-12-11
    Location
    Bărăgan
    Posts
    249

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Argeș(~SER+MAC)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Walati(Vlachs)

    Ethnic group
    Thraco-Roman
    Country: Romania



    Quote Originally Posted by Diurpaneus View Post
    Romanian barza- stork
    Albanian bardhe-same meaning
    Gorani barz-high
    Ossetian barz- birch

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Append...European_nouns

    http://www.kavehfarrokh.com/wp-conte...positionof.pdf
    pg169
    Another one:


    Romanian "barz" means "white-spotted".


    So , we have a white-spotted animal(the stork), and a white-spotted tree(the birch).

  23. #23
    Elite member
    Join Date
    14-11-10
    Posts
    2,517

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a1a1
    MtDNA haplogroup
    HV2a1 +G13708A

    Ethnic group
    Kurdish
    Country: Germany



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurpaneus View Post
    Another one:


    Romanian "barz" means "white-spotted".




    So , we have a white-spotted animal(the stork), and a white-spotted tree(the birch).
    In Farsi there is boland for high.

    In Kurdish there is berêz and bilind for high or as polite form in a title, berêz is used as "your highness"
    Last edited by Alan; 27-05-14 at 18:31.

  24. #24
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,294

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurpaneus View Post
    Another one:


    Romanian "barz" means "white-spotted".


    So , we have a white-spotted animal(the stork), and a white-spotted tree(the birch).
    Bird called Bażant in polish.

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    18-05-14
    Posts
    144


    Ethnic group
    Slavic
    Country: Slovenia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    The Polish Bażant does not derive from "Romanian", but it is a Polish version of another slavic word, Fazan. (B - V - Pf - F betatism) or PHEASANT.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Alternation of words wth L or R in IEan languages
    By MOESAN in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 16-04-20, 14:13
  2. Replies: 47
    Last Post: 27-02-18, 23:12
  3. Replies: 185
    Last Post: 07-11-14, 23:03
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-09-11, 09:31
  5. Words from old Germanic languages in modern English and Latin languages
    By Maciamo in forum European Culture & History
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 15-12-06, 14:05

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •