The Science of Blonde Hair

[JS Bach]

Maybe it is baseless, but on other hand we just have your subjective opinion. Can you find a more scientific survey into this subject to substantiate your claim?

There are online rankings of celebrities like this one: http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-l...le-the-hottest-celebrities-of-all-time?page=2 where all you have to do to vote is click the thumb-up or thumb-down button. So at least it seems democratic in some ways. Of the top 100 in this list, I counted half as being blondes, and I don’t think any country - even Finland - has proportionally that many blondes. I’d be interested to have these celebrities tested for Eurogenes7 or Eurogenes8 to see what proportions they have of EEF, WHG, ANE, etc.

There was a rating system described in the movie “The Social Network” that had Harvard students rank women in pairs for looks, and which was calculated using the standard rating system used by the U.S. chess federation. That would seem like a pretty accurate measuring system to me, if sampled widely and accurately, and maybe with tweaking a parameter or two. I don't know if one has been done though.

 

[LeBrok]

There are online rankings of celebrities like this one: http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-l...le-the-hottest-celebrities-of-all-time?page=2 where all you have to do to vote is click the thumb-up or thumb-down button. So at least it seems democratic in some ways. Of the top 100 in this list, I counted half as being blondes, and I don’t think any country - even Finland - has proportionally that many blondes. I’d be interested to have these celebrities tested for Eurogenes7 or Eurogenes8 to see what proportions they have of EEF, WHG, ANE, etc.

There was a rating system described in the movie “The Social Network” that had Harvard students rank women in pairs for looks, and which was calculated using the standard rating system used by the U.S. chess federation. That would seem like a pretty accurate measuring system to me, if sampled widely and accurately, and maybe with tweaking a parameter or two. I don't know if one has been done though.

It would be interesting to see preference of Chinese, or Amazonian Indians for example.

 

[Aaron1981]

Did you ask the world?


1. Brazil
2. Russia
3. Colombia
4. Great Britain
5. Philippines
6. Spain
7. Australia
8. Bulgaria
9. South Africa
10. Canada

Wow..that list? It's horrible. In no universe should UK women be anything more than the top 10 foogliest. I'm a little biased against my own I suppose.

 

[Fire Haired14]

I think beauty is a very subjective thing. In the list LeBrok found, Finipino women rank fairly high, but I don't generally find them attractive - there's just something about their features I don't like. But some other people may think that Filipino women are very attractive. And a lot of people think blondes are very attractive but I don't, perhaps because opposites attract. I have brown hair that used to be blond, blue eyes and fairly pale skin, and although I'm attracted to pale redheads, I'm otherwise most attracted to women with dark hair and a bit darker complexion. But lots of people love blonds. So I don't think it's possible to make a list of certain types of women that everyone finds attractive. It's more subjective than that.

I agree that's true but there are laws to it. In some ethnic groups women might fall under these laws more than others. The subjective thing is true when people say there's a huge difference between "hillbilly women", french women, Russian women, Czech women, British women, etc.

 

[Fire Haired14]

It would be interesting to see preference of Chinese, or Amazonian Indians for example.

You'll probably mostly find that preference in east Asia and native Americans. There's oftnly a biased, where people from a certain ethnic-cultural group are more attracted to their own.

 

[LeBrok]

You'll probably mostly find that preference in east Asia and native Americans. There's oftnly a biased, where people from a certain ethnic-cultural group are more attracted to their own.

If this is true then I'm not sure how you can claim that half of men on this planet prefers blonds?

 

[Angela]

You'll probably mostly find that preference in east Asia and native Americans. There's oftnly a biased, where people from a certain ethnic-cultural group are more attracted to their own.

I think that's true to a certain extent. The ancient Greeks were certainly aware of differences in pigmentation by area, but, having a healthy sense of self esteem, they held that unlike the too pale northerners and the too dark "Ethiopians", they were "just right".

However, as Aberdeen said, for others it's a question of "opposites attract". Then, there's the fact that elite groups who are an intrusive force with perhaps a different "phenotype" will favor their own phenotype, and people in lower social groups will come to favor it too, as a sign of privilege. That was partly the case for the preference for blonde hair in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, I think.

You might want to pick up a copy of the book "The White Lotus" by John Hersey to see how it would work in a future world where the Chinese conquered the West:

It also changes with time and fashions...the ideal of beauty in the high Middle Ages was for women to be as hairless as possible (perhaps for a contrast with men) so they plucked out a lot of hair along their foreheads, and even their eyelashes and eyebrows.

They also prized women being pregnant so the pregnant silhouette was preferred; if you weren't pregnant you wore a sort of cushion under your dress. I don't think that it's at all a look that would appeal to men today.
http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/files/2011/06/liberal_arts1.jpg

For a time in the nineteenth century, the "Circassian" woman was held to be the epitome of female beauty. Hucksters and marketeers made a fortune selling products guaranteed to make you look like one. I'm partial to that look myself, but then I think everybody looks better with dark hair...a better contrast with pale features, for sure. I've even been known to put a darker rinse in my hair just to get that effect.

That's not to mention the changes in preference over the twentieth century for large mouth versus small mouth, a tan versus indoor pale, a boyish figure versus a voluptuous one and on and on. Or, what about the influence of advertising and the mass media? I can tell you for a fact that the decisions made by a very small group of people dictate what we consider "attractive", whether we know it or not. That partly explains the difference in the number of actresses sporting blonde hair versus dark hair now, or how "a 4 became the new 6, and the 2 the new 4". (It's from The Devil Wears Prada, a movie I'm sure you didn't see. I was there, and I could see it happening. The sample sizes came in a size 6, so that's the size you had to be to be a model. Then, they decided it had to be a four, and then sometimes a two...that's why models are anorexic...they have to starve to get to that size when they also have to be 5'10.)

It's all complicated, and, indeed, subjective.

 

[Fire Haired14]

I understand some of what I said might be offensive, and I was quick to assume.

 

[Aberdeen]

I agree that's true but there are laws to it. In some ethnic groups women might fall under these laws more than others. The subjective thing is true when people say there's a huge difference between "hillbilly women", french women, Russian women, Czech women, British women, etc.

I have no idea what you're trying to say. There are cultural preferences, and they do change over time, as Angela pointed out. IMO, some of those cultural preferences would seem bizarre in other times and places - I recently read an article on the BBC News talking about how at one point the ancient Greeks thought that women were more attractive if they had facial tattoos and shaved heads. But individual preferences can and often do override cultural preferences.

 

[Angela]

I understand some of what I said might be offensive, and I was quick to assume.

I certainly wasn't offended FireHaired. All I was trying to point out is that if you take a broader view, taking into account not only other cultures, but also different time periods, it becomes pretty clear that things like this are not only very subjective, they're also culture and time period specific.

 

[Fire Haired14]

I have no idea what you're trying to say. There are cultural preferences, and they do change over time, as Angela pointed out. IMO, some of those cultural preferences would seem bizarre in other times and places - I recently read an article on the BBC News talking about how at one point the ancient Greeks thought that women were more attractive if they had facial tattoos and shaved heads. But individual preferences can and often do override cultural preferences.

It'll be hard find a guy who prefers women with short hair over long hair. The eras of women having short hair, was probably driven by women(same thing with skinny models), who didn't understand what men were attracted to. Most pre-15th century depictions of women have long hair.

Well, when my older relatives look at old videos they say they looked weird with mullets and puffy hair, but looked like they do now to themselves. I've had the same experience when I get a hair cut. If I went back in time to 1984 and lived until 1988, the 80s styles would start to look normal to me, because my mind would adapt. There are specific laws of attraction, that can be expressed using different styles. The "ideal" woman ancient Romans depicted, Upper Palaeolithic depictions of women from Europe and Siberia, Neolithic depictions of women from Hungary, depictions of women from ancient Mesopotamia, etc., etc. are all very attractive and show the same features. I don't think its mostly subjective and cultural.

 

[LeBrok]

It'll be hard find a guy who prefers women with short hair over long hair. The eras of women having short hair, was probably driven by women(same thing with skinny models), who didn't understand what men were attracted to. Most pre-15th century depictions of women have long hair.

Well, when my older relatives look at old videos they say they looked weird with mullets and puffy hair, but looked like they do now to themselves. I've had the same experience when I get a hair cut. If I went back in time to 1984 and lived until 1988, the 80s styles would start to look normal to me, because my mind would adapt. There are specific laws of attraction, that can be expressed using different styles. The "ideal" woman ancient Romans depicted, Upper Palaeolithic depictions of women from Europe and Siberia, Neolithic depictions of women from Hungary, depictions of women from ancient Mesopotamia, etc., etc. are all very attractive and show the same features. I don't think its mostly subjective and cultural.

Certainly there is cultural aspect and a genetic aspect of what we perceive as feminine beauty. Then we have few other elements interacting and overlapping with each other, like how women see themselves attractive, how society describes attractive women, (by fashion or other social trends), how men perceive women sexy. There is enough things in the mix to blur the picture and make it confusion to understand.

Personally I never understood fashion and prefered to stay true to my natural inclinations. If I find clothes making me look good. (the looking good part is hard to define though, lol). I can wear them to the end of my life. Fashion should be very personal, matching clothes, hair, tan to the body shape and size. To make people look good in a Universal (genetic) sense of beauty. However I realise that personal fashion is an oxymoron. It is a personal style I'm after.
There was something about fashion few years back that made half of girls walking around with muffin top look.

 

[Angela]

Certainly there is cultural aspect and a genetic aspect of what we perceive as feminine beauty. Then we have few other elements interacting and overlapping with each other, like how women see themselves attractive, how society describes attractive women, (by fashion or other social trends), how men perceive women sexy. There is enough things in the mix to blur the picture and make it confusion to understand.

Personally I never understood fashion and prefered to stay true to my natural inclinations. If I find clothes making me look good. (the looking good part is hard to define though, lol). I can wear them to the end of my life. Fashion should be very personal, matching clothes, hair, tan to the body shape and size. To make people look good in a Universal (genetic) sense of beauty. However I realise that personal fashion is an oxymoron. It is a personal style I'm after.
There was something about fashion few years back that made half of girls walking around with muffin top look.

:startled::startled:They're called "low rise" pants...an unfortunate fashion trend, added to which , in this case, they're being worn way too tight. Pictures like this are what convince me that some people don't look in mirrors before they go outside. To all our gentlemen posters, if your female significant other asks if this look makes her appear fat, please tell her yes, it does. I know that comment doesn't usually benefit you, but you owe it to the rest of us.

 

[Angela]

Fire Haired14: It'll be hard find a guy who prefers women with short hair over long hair. The eras of women having short hair, was probably driven by women(same thing with skinny models), who didn't understand what men were attracted to. Most pre-15th century depictions of women have long hair.

Well, when my older relatives look at old videos they say they looked weird with mullets and puffy hair, but looked like they do now to themselves. I've had the same experience when I get a hair cut. If I went back in time to 1984 and lived until 1988, the 80s styles would start to look normal to me, because my mind would adapt. There are specific laws of attraction, that can be expressed using different styles. The "ideal" woman ancient Romans depicted, Upper Palaeolithic depictions of women from Europe and Siberia, Neolithic depictions of women from Hungary, depictions of women from ancient Mesopotamia, etc., etc. are all very attractive and show the same features. I don't think its mostly subjective and cultural.

You could say, I think, that women getting their hair "bobbed" in the twenties, and the sudden craze for a more "boyish" silhouette (even to the point that some women "bound" their breasts) could have something to do with the fact that women wanted more "freedom" and it was felt short hair required less grooming time (although, in fact, longer hair you can bundle up into a chignon is lower maintenance) and women didn't want to be relegated solely to a "motherly" role. (Of course, during more conservative periods like the 1950s, the hour glass silhouette once more came into fashion.)
http://blog.fidmmuseum.org/museum/2010/03/1920s-silhouette.html

Even today, as a professional woman, it's easier to be taken more seriously and to avoid the office "lech" if you don't dress in a very "figure enhancing" or feminine manner.

However, I can tell you emphatically that most women today absolutely hate the fact that they're supposed to have what they consider to be totally unrealistic body shapes.

Also, there were in fact differences in the female form as memorialized in the UP/Neolithic in Europe, the Metal Ages in other places, and the Greco/Roman era. The "goddess" figurines from the UP and the early Neolithic in Europe (and Anatolia) are pretty similar (and obscenely and unattractively fat in my opinion-a walking advertisement for not spending your reproductive years perpetually pregnant). However, it's hard to know whether that was their idea of the ideal female form, or just their idea of a "fertility" goddess, pictured perhaps realistically for their time as a woman who had endured many, many pregnancies. I say that because there are other figurines which show a more "normal" form, which might be the goddess when "young" perhaps.

UP figurines:The Venus of Willendorf
http://www.dominiquenavarro.com/imagesdom/Venus of Willendorf/Venus-of-Willendorf_03.jpg

Neolithic figurine from Cucuteni:
https://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/5500705/il_570xN.222918505.jpg

Things were different by the Greco/Roman Classical Era:

The Venus de Milo:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/MG-Paris-Aphrodite_of_Milos.jpg

I personally don't find the proportions of some of the Greek and Roman statues of the goddesses particularly aesthetically pleasing...a little too heavy on the bottom for the size of the top, to be delicate about it.

The most beautiful female form I can off hand remember from ancient art is this representation of Ishtar...
http://garyosborn.moonfruit.com/communities/2/004/005/471/112/images/4585746524_328x443.jpg

That and the "wasp waisted" ladies of ancient Crete:
http://www.nmia.com/~jaybird/ThomasBakerPaintings/images.html/necklace_bearer_ hi_res.jpg

Of course, that's totally subjective on my part , and impossible for some women to achieve naturally. Probably something like the Venus de Milo is, in fact, achievable, and would be healthy as well for the majority of women, but it's not what the fashion industry or Hollywood are currently promoting.

 

[Aberdeen]

:startled::startled:They're called "low rise" pants...an unfortunate fashion trend, added to which , in this case, they're being worn way too tight. Pictures like this are what convince me that some people don't look in mirrors before they go outside. To all our gentlemen posters, if your female significant other asks if this look makes her appear fat, please tell her yes, it does. I know that comment doesn't usually benefit you, but you owe it to the rest of us.

There is no question a married man dreads more than "Do these jeans make me look fat?" Because any woman self-aware enough to ask that question already knows the answer. And if the man says "no", she knows he's lying and thinks he doesn't love her enough to risk her anger in order to have her back. But if he says "yes", he's an insensitive jerk. When a woman asks that question, she's really asking the man to perform a miracle by altering reality so the jeans don't make her fat. And if he won't do that one little thing for her, he doesn't really love her.

It's a good thing women are so fascinating, because they aren't always easy to live with. But I guess the challenge keeps things interesting.

 

[Aberdeen]

It'll be hard find a guy who prefers women with short hair over long hair. The eras of women having short hair, was probably driven by women(same thing with skinny models), who didn't understand what men were attracted to. Most pre-15th century depictions of women have long hair.

Well, when my older relatives look at old videos they say they looked weird with mullets and puffy hair, but looked like they do now to themselves. I've had the same experience when I get a hair cut. If I went back in time to 1984 and lived until 1988, the 80s styles would start to look normal to me, because my mind would adapt. There are specific laws of attraction, that can be expressed using different styles. The "ideal" woman ancient Romans depicted, Upper Palaeolithic depictions of women from Europe and Siberia, Neolithic depictions of women from Hungary, depictions of women from ancient Mesopotamia, etc., etc. are all very attractive and show the same features. I don't think its mostly subjective and cultural.

The slim figures and bobbed hair of the women of the 1920's was a reaction to the voluptuous but conservative "Gibson girl" of the preceding decade and men liked the "new women" or "flappers" of the 1920s because they were seen as more independent and more interesting. The same thing happened in the 1960s when skinny models with bobbed hair and skippy clothes replaced the voluptuous but conservatively dressed models of the 1950s. So new fashion trends are often just a reaction to the previous trend. But individual preference will always play a part. If you prefer the Venus of Willendorf, you're what they call a "fat chaser".

 

[Angela]

There is no question a married man dreads more than "Do these jeans make me look fat?" Because any woman self-aware enough to ask that question already knows the answer. And if the man says "no", she knows he's lying and thinks he doesn't love her enough to risk her anger in order to have her back. But if he says "yes", he's an insensitive jerk. When a woman asks that question, she's really asking the man to perform a miracle by altering reality so the jeans don't make her fat. And if he won't do that one little thing for her, he doesn't really love her.

It's a good thing women are so fascinating, because they aren't always easy to live with. But I guess the challenge keeps things interesting.

Well...by and large I think you've analyzed the situation pretty well....:grin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emHSO5dr6dk

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoFNoLW1XCg
[/URL]

 

[LeBrok]

You could say, I think, that women getting their hair "bobbed" in the twenties, and the sudden craze for a more "boyish" silhouette (even to the point that some women "bound" their breasts) could have something to do with the fact that women wanted more "freedom" and it was felt short hair required less grooming time (although, in fact, longer hair you can bundle up into a chignon is lower maintenance) and women didn't want to be relegated solely to a "motherly" role. (Of course, during more conservative periods like the 1950s, the hour glass silhouette once more came into fashion.)
http://blog.fidmmuseum.org/museum/2010/03/1920s-silhouette.html

http://blog.fidmmuseum.org/museum/2010/03/1920s-silhouette.html

In my eyes, it doesn't matter how long the hair needs to be for woman to be sexy. It is more important how it goes with her face. Some faces look better with longer some with shorter hair, or curled or bobbed. Probably I won't be far from the truth saying for all men, that we live in very exciting times in hair fashion. One month we can have a brunet with long hair, in another curly blond, and yet she being the same wife or girlfriend.

The Venus de Milo:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/MG-Paris-Aphrodite_of_Milos.jpg

Classical Greek beauty is more of my thing.

what the fashion industry or Hollywood are currently promoting.

Perhaps, because fashion designers are mostly gay men, and as such don't feel what sexy women should look like? Other thing is the straighter the silhouette the easier to make cloths. I wish it was more about women and men who are going to wear them, and less about art, cosmetics and clothes, the products themselves.

 

[Norvila]

I would recommend article about blonde hair, pale skin and light eyes
http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/looks.shtml
Please note South East Baltic were there is a max of these features has sharp increase of archeological artifacts dating 1-2c AC. Scandinavia with UK had big impact of the Migration period that followed with Vendel.