Politics Get Out of Europe Before You Wreck It: A French Message to Britain

[LeBrok]

True, true. Would you like Canada to join the EU?

Not at the moment. EU has lots work to do to make sure it is run properly and all members are economically solid. It might take some time to do proper integration.
There is already a very close relationship with EU with free trade being worked out and Canadians don't need visas to travel to EU countries.

 

[LeBrok]

There certainly hasn't been much publicity about this, and I doubt many Canadians would be pleased by this latest act of idiocy by Harper if they knew about it.

The trade agreement could be useful or not, depending on the terms, but there seems to be a lot of secrecy about it.

I have a feeling you are in a bad mood today. Let's start fixing Canada by getting rid of royals first. We need full independence.

It seams that sharing diplomatic premises is practiced by many.

Diplomatic co-location is not unprecedented: a British diplomat already uses space in the Canadian embassy in Mali, while in Burma a Canadian diplomat is temporarily housed in the British embassy as Ottawa establishes a more permanent presence. The UK also shares several premises with France and Germany.

http://www.theguardian.com/global/2012/sep/24/diplomacy-embassy-buildings-uk-canada

 

[FrankN]

It seams that sharing diplomatic premises is practiced by many.

Austria is using quite a number of German embassies. And- no - that doesn't mean that an "Anschluss" will be coming any time soon...

 

[Coolboygcp]

Actually, Canada joining the EU would be an interesting experiment. There is quite a lot of experience in Canada when it comes to dealing with linguistic differences, allowing for cultural autonomy while maintaining socio-political integration, and some people inside the UK might be more prepared to learn from Canada about "federalism" than from, say, Mr. Juncker. The British, but also the European discussion would change substantially if the enlargement perspective is not anymore solely towards Turkey and Ukraine (to name the elephants in the room; accessions of Serbia and other pats of former Yugoslavia are technically well manageable). If Canada should really be interested, this would also send powerful signals to countries like Norway and Switzerland, which could help the EU, not only by opening their wallets, but also by increasing pressure for grass-roots, community-oriented approaches.Half of the Caribbean (Martinique, Guadeloupe, British Virgin Islands, Curacao, St. Martin, etc.) is already in the EU, further enlargement there will anyway come sooner or later onto the agenda. That would be a golden opportunity to do away with the "one Commissioner per member state" principle, which is an important driving force behind the ever-growing bureaucracy in Brussels (though I fear we won't see any respective reform under a Juncker presidency). Australia is a different case- it has become quite "Asian" over the last decades. A closer integration into the SE Asian economic sphere is probably not only in Australia's self-interest, but would also provide Europe with an additional communication channel to that region.

I agree with you about Canada joining the EU, it would be an interesting experiment. Canada could help the UK with cultural autonomy, as they have a lot of experience with it. I think if Canada joined the EU, it would increase relations with the UK, and with France. Perhaps with Canada in the EU, there could be a Franco-German-British-Canadian alliance? The EU is already Canada's second-largest trading partner. But if/when it joins the EU, the EU would most likely become Canada's largest trading partner. Hopefully if Canada is interested, other Western nations like Norway and Switzerland will join the EU. I also hope that Iceland will eventually join the EU, and that Greenland rejoins the EU.

I also agree with you on the Caribbean. Sooner or later, the nations in the Caribbean will want to join as much of the Caribbean is already in the EU. Plus, if this happened there wouldn't be anymore CARICOM, or Caribbean Community; there really isn't a need for this organisations anyway.

I do believe that Australia's future is with Europe. Yes, it has a lot of trade with Asian countries. Yes, they are in it's general area. But culturally, socially, and economically, it doesn't have much in common with them. The only nation that it has much in common with in the region is New Zealand. I believe that Australia and New Zealand should both join the EU. These two nations are very similar culturally, politically, and socially to the UK. I think they would be quite good matches for the EU. Additionally, if Australia and New Zealand enter the EU, then the EU will ave an influence in that region of the world; and the EU will have even more economic reason to sign a Free-Trade/Association Agreement with China. If Australia and New Zealand join the EU, then they will stop their transition towards being Asian countries. I think that would be good.

Also, what do you think about various nations in Oceania, like Vanuatu, Fiji, etc, joining the EU? Also, what about nations that are of mostly European descent, such as Argentina? And what do you think about Cape Verde joining the EU?

 

[Coolboygcp]

I have a feeling you are in a bad mood today. Let's start fixing Canada by getting rid of royals first. We need full independence.

It seams that sharing diplomatic premises is practiced by many.


http://www.theguardian.com/global/2012/sep/24/diplomacy-embassy-buildings-uk-canada

Oh, Aberdeen's always in a bad mood. :grin:

But, don't get rid of the royals! Please no! God Save The Queen? If Canada gets rid of the royals, then the wheels shall turn towards it becoming the 51st state. And I don't think that Canadians would want that to happen.

Besides, most polls suggest that the majority of Canadians want to keep the monarchy. I like the monarchy, it brings a sense of continuity to a nation. In the US, we have Presidents who stay in office for 4-8 years. in the Commonwealth Realms, you have Prime Ministers, and you have Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith/ Elizabeth Deux, par la grâce de Dieu Reine du Royaume-Uni, du Canada et de ses autres royaumes et territoires, Chef du Commonwealth, Défenseur de la Foi. She has been in power for over 62 years! She is a symbol of continuity, and of the people of the Commonwealth.

 

[LeBrok]

Oh, Aberdeen's always in a bad mood. :grin:

But, don't get rid of the royals! Please no! God Save The Queen? If Canada gets rid of the royals, then the wheels shall turn towards it becoming the 51st state. And I don't think that Canadians would want that to happen.

Besides, most polls suggest that the majority of Canadians want to keep the monarchy. I like the monarchy, it brings a sense of continuity to a nation. In the US, we have Presidents who stay in office for 4-8 years. in the Commonwealth Realms, you have Prime Ministers, and you have Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith/ Elizabeth Deux, par la grâce de Dieu Reine du Royaume-Uni, du Canada et de ses autres royaumes et territoires, Chef du Commonwealth, Défenseur de la Foi. She has been in power for over 62 years! She is a symbol of continuity, and of the people of the Commonwealth.

Oh please, she is needed like a fifth wheel for the car (and I don't mean spare one), and nothing more than a reality show for old people. I don't need a symbol of continuity of monarchy, imperialism, feudalism and old useless traditions to remind me that Canada is not fully independent country yet.

 

[Coolboygcp]

Not at the moment. EU has lots work to do to make sure it is run properly and all members are economically solid. It might take some time to do proper integration.
There is already a very close relationship with EU with free trade being worked out and Canadians don't need visas to travel to EU countries.

Well what about in 5-10 years, or longer? Would you want Canada to join then?

 

[Coolboygcp]

Oh please, she is needed like a fifth wheel for the car (and I don't mean spare one), and nothing more than a reality show for old people. I don't need a symbol of continuity of monarchy, imperialism, feudalism and old useless traditions to remind me that Canada is not fully independent country yet.

The reality show bit was funny, I admit. But why is monarchy so bad? I don't understand why you act like it's so bad. It's not as if Canada was an absolute monarchy, it's a constitutional one. The Queen doesn't have much power, so why get rid of her? Do you think if you get rid of the Queen that Canada will change, and be better? Canada will at first, be the same, and it may later move towards being the 51st state without Canada having a Queen. Canada's future is with Europe. But, I think the monarchy has a place in Canada. Look how well Commonwealth countries that got rid of the monarchy turned out; South Africa, Papua New Guinea, Honduras, Kenya, most of Africa, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, the list goes on and on. Do you want your country to turn out like those?

I'm not saying the monarchy is without it's problems and quirks, but it has a purpose. It unites the Commonwelath Realms, and the Anglosphere.

I agree with you on the vast majority of things, but I don't agree with you on the monarchy in Canada.

 

[Echetlaeus]

I didn't say anything about the USA joining the EU. Why is it foolish for countries like Canada, Australia, and Zealand; which have a shared culture and history with Europe. The vast majority of Canandians, Australians, and New Zealanders are of European descent.

These countries are not "officially" colonies, but they share a monarch with the UK, speak the same language as it, are part of many groups with the UK (Five Eyes, AUSCANNZUKUS, ABCA Armies, etc.) The UK and Canada now share many embassies. All of these countries share the Westminster system, they all use the metric system, they all (except for Canada) drive on the left side of the road. They all have very similar cultures, similar values, etc. Additionally, there are already three Commonwealth nations in in the EU. (The UK, Cyprus, and Malta.) why not add a few more? Also, Ireland has a similar culture to the UK, and to the Commonwealth nations; and the entry of Commonwealth nations into the EU would benefit the UK, would benefit Ireland, would benefit the Commonwealth nations, and would benefit the EU.

Think about it, would you rather the EU accept countries such as Kosovo, Bosnia, Serbia, FYROM, etc. Or would you rather the EU accept fellow "Western" and "European" countries that share the same values as Western Europeans, that share the same language as some Western Europeans, and share a similar culture to that of Western Europeans. I would much rather the EU accept Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, keep the UK, further integrate, and enlarge, and become an effective United States of Europe.

I am not the only one who dares this vision. Look on Google, and you can finds hundreds of articles, websites, threads, forums, and posts that discuss this, and many Canadians, Australians, and New Zealanders would like their countries to join the EU, and many Europeans would like the same.

If these countries joined the EU, it would get much, much richer than it currently is. It would be the world's foremost economic power, political power, and superpower. With this extra money from these countries, amazing infrastructure projects could be completed, poor, Eastern European nations could become rich, and the EU, as well as Europeans would only benefit.

All of this 'exo' countries have different interests from Europe. I will agree only if they share the same values and the same targets.

If you ask me personally, I want an entity like the United States, i.e. United States of Europe.

Of course there are different type of countries and convergence is what we want to achieve, but I strongly believe that this union should be mostly related to European borders.

We can have, as we actually have, financial cooperation with the rest of the world.

Plus if you join the EU, tons of people will leave the sacred European land, for a better future in the New World. But we want to keep the people, and help the 'Old Lady' eventually.

 

[Echetlaeus]

Well what about in 5-10 years, or longer? Would you want Canada to join then?

Impossible for Canada to join the EU, imho. Not even in 50 years.

 

[Coolboygcp]

All of this 'exo' countries have different interests from Europe. I will agree only if they share the same values and the same targets.

If you ask me personally, I want an entity like the United States, i.e. United States of Europe.

Of course there are different type of countries and convergence is what we want to achieve, but I strongly believe that this union should be mostly related to European borders.

We can have, as we actually have, financial cooperation with the rest of the world.

Plus if you join the EU, tons of people will leave the sacred European land, for a better future in the New World. But we want to keep the people, and help the 'Old Lady' eventually.

They don't have different interests from Europe. They share the same values, the same targets, some of the same languages, the same monarch as the UK, etc.

I agree, I would like an United States of Europe. Would you rather the EU accept Eastern European nations like Ukraine, Serbia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Turkey, etc? Or would you rather the EU accept flurries such as Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, which share the same value, targets, languages, monarch, and culture with Europe and the UK.

Look at France, the country of France is in Europe, South America, Africa, Oceania, and North America. The UK is also in all of those continents mentioned. Spain is in Europe and in Africa. (Ceuta, Melilla, Canary Islands.) Portugal is in Europe and Africa. Cyprus is in entirely in Asia. Some consider Malta to be in Africa. 96% of Turkey is in Asia. Italy has some islands that can be considered to be in Africa.

The precedent has been set. If the EU was to only be in Europe, they shouldn't have accepted France, The UK, Spain, Portugal, Cyprus, Malta, Italy in the EU. And they shouldn't consider Turkey as a candidate for ascension. But they have, because like me; they believe that the EU should not only be in "geographic" Europe, but that it should be in countries with a European culture. Excerpt from the Copenhagen Criteria:

"Membership requires that candidate country has achieved stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights, respect for and protection of minorities, the existence of a functioning market economy as well as the capacity to cope with competitive pressure and market forces within the Union. Membership presupposes the candidate's ability to take on the obligations of membership including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union.

Well, there you have it, the EU doesn't say that you have to be in geographic Europe to join. If they had said that, they wouldn't have many members.

 

[Echetlaeus]

They don't have different interests from Europe. They share the same values, the same targets, some of the same languages, the same monarch as the UK, etc.

I agree, I would like an United States of Europe. Would you rather the EU accept Eastern European nations like Ukraine, Serbia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Turkey, etc? Or would you rather the EU accept flurries such as Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, which share the same value, targets, languages, monarch, and culture with Europe and the UK.

Look at France, the country of France is in Europe, South America, Africa, Oceania, and North America. The UK is also in all of those continents mentioned. Spain is in Europe and in Africa. (Ceuta, Melilla, Canary Islands.) Portugal is in Europe and Africa. Cyprus is in entirely in Asia. Some consider Malta to be in Africa. 96% of Turkey is in Asia. Italy has some islands that can be considered to be in Africa.

The precedent has been set. If the EU was to only be in Europe, they shouldn't have accepted France, The UK, Spain, Portugal, Cyprus, Malta, Italy in the EU. And they shouldn't consider Turkey as a candidate for ascension. But they have, because like me; they believe that the EU should not only be in "geographic" Europe, but that it should be in countries with a European culture. Excerpt from the Copenhagen Criteria:

"Membership requires that candidate country has achieved stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights, respect for and protection of minorities, the existence of a functioning market economy as well as the capacity to cope with competitive pressure and market forces within the Union. Membership presupposes the candidate's ability to take on the obligations of membership including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union.

Well, there you have it, the EU doesn't say that you have to be in geographic Europe to join. If they had said that, they wouldn't have many members.

Balkans are Europe, of course they should be in EU. I have my doubts about Turkey (I do not say a clear no).

If they do not mind geography, they should not call it European Union, for European citizens are all those people who live in Europe, but something else. I have no problem if they change the name (the word Europe must not be used in this case).

e.g. Economic and Social Union of the Northern Hemisphere (ESUNH) would be an OK name.

 

[Aberdeen]

I have a feeling you are in a bad mood today. Let's start fixing Canada by getting rid of royals first. We need full independence.

It seams that sharing diplomatic premises is practiced by many.


http://www.theguardian.com/global/2012/sep/24/diplomacy-embassy-buildings-uk-canada

I'm sure you've been in this country long enough to know why it's difficult to get rid of the monarchy. First of all, it would be very difficult to get enough provinces to agree on anything in order to make such a major change to the constitution. It's a long and difficult process. More importantly, if we got rid of the monarchy, what would we replace it with? Many people, including myself, dislike the idea of making Canada a republic unless we can be sure that the president would always remain a figurehead with no political power. But once a complex constitutional process starts, there's no telling where it will end up. We might get a system where we have a president constantly fighting with Parliament, and even less useful work would get done than at present. Also, there is a small but vocal minority of people who actually like the monarchy and they're apt to become one issue voters if Parliament tries to get rid of that anachronism. And politicians fear one issue voters.

I agree we need to fix Canada's constitution - we need to get rid of the monarchy and either abolish the Senate or replace it by one elected proportionally, to act as a check on the House of Commons. The danger of that idea is that it could produce deadlock, so perhaps just getting rid of the Senate is best. But this country isn't united enough in its sense of direction at the moment to be able to make the necessary changes. Maybe you could run for Parliament and become the inspirational leader we need to unite Canadians so we could fix things. I wouldn't vote for you though - your economic views are too Albertan (or maybe just too warped from growing up under communism).

 

[Echetlaeus]

^ Do you also pay the queen like the Brits do Canadian bros?

 

[Engel]

Countries should stay independent and not join any union. EU was a mistake just as the euro is.
Now is there is an american continent union aka AU.No. If AU forms, then it will implode like the EU

 

[oriental]

Ontario is the most populous province in Canada and in the American War of Independence in 1776, all the British monarchists left the US for Ontario. You have big fight if you want to get rid of the monarchy. I waved to Queen (I like her) and her clown Prince Philip in India when I was in India. Ha, ha, he always acted like a clown. I have ambivalent feelings about the monarchy.

 

[Engel]

Ontario is the most populous province in Canada and in the American War of Independence in 1776, all the British monarchists left the US for Ontario. You have big fight if you want to get rid of the monarchy. I waved to Queen (I like her) and her clown Prince Philip in India when I was in India. Ha, ha, he always acted like a clown. I have ambivalent feelings about the monarchy.

Easy there boy!! Show some respect for the prince

 

[Maleth]

Look at France, the country of France is in Europe, South America, Africa, Oceania, and North America. The UK is also in all of those continents mentioned. Spain is in Europe and in Africa. (Ceuta, Melilla, Canary Islands.) Portugal is in Europe and Africa. Cyprus is in entirely in Asia. Some consider Malta to be in Africa. 96% of Turkey is in Asia. Italy has some islands that can be considered to be in Africa.

The precedent has been set. If the EU was to only be in Europe, they shouldn't have accepted France, The UK, Spain, Portugal, Cyprus, Malta, Italy in the EU. And they shouldn't consider Turkey as a candidate for ascension. But they have, because like me; they believe that the EU should not only be in "geographic" Europe, but that it should be in countries with a European culture. Excerpt from the Copenhagen Criteria:

You forgot to mention that Greece has many Islands close to so called Asia. With the same measuring stick then you can consider the whole of Europe as part of Asia as its attached to it. Borders as we know them are relatively a recent thing. Azerbaijan have an ad on CNN claiming they are the European charm of the orient! We like to think of a world either black or white (for statistical purposes) but in reality there is lots of different shades of gray in between.

 

[Coolboygcp]

Countries should stay independent and not join any union. EU was a mistake just as the euro is.
Now is there is an american continent union aka AU.No. If AU forms, then it will implode like the EU

That is utter bullshit. The EU was not a mistake! The EU was a very wise thing to do. Without the EU, Europe could be at war once again. Without the EU; people would not have the essential human right of freedom of movement. Without the EU, Europe would become as deregulated as the US, and they would have widespread lobbying. That would be very bad. In the US, over 90% of corn, soy, rapeseed/canola, and cotton is GMO. The EU only has one GMO approved for human consumption, and GMOs have to be labeled. Many EU countries such as France, Ireland, Austria, Luxembourg, and others have banned GMOs. Could you imagine if that happened in the US? Corporations have a lot of power in the US.

The European Project has succeeded so far, and it shall not "implode". Yes, Europe has been having economic problems as of late, but so has much of the world. The economy in Europe is getting much better. Integration is increasing, and more nations are joining the EU.

Do you honestly think, that small nations like Luxembourg and Malta could survive on their one without the EU? They are too small to have lots of embassies, consulates, ambassadors, etc. It would just be idiotic for these countries to release their own currency; thus they have the Euro.

More nations will join the Euro in the coming years, like Denmark, Poland, etc. You say that the Euro was a mistake, and that it has imploded. How so? Why? Because, it hasn't. The € is still worth more than the $.

And as for an "American Union", it will never happen. North American nations don't have much in common, but geography. Mexico iscalligned with the Latin American sphere. Canada is aligned with the UK, The Commonwealth, and Europe. It has much more in common with them, than the US and Mexico. The US would ever join such a union as, most Americans are reluctant to change. The entirety of the world except the US and Liberia (Burma is converting to the Metric System.) uses the metric system. It makes so much more sense, is much easier to use and remember; yet Americans favour the US system of measurements. I am American and a European, but I use the metric system, as it makes immensely more sense.

 

[Coolboygcp]

Ontario is the most populous province in Canada and in the American War of Independence in 1776, all the British monarchists left the US for Ontario. You have big fight if you want to get rid of the monarchy. I waved to Queen (I like her) and her clown Prince Philip in India when I was in India. Ha, ha, he always acted like a clown. I have ambivalent feelings about the monarchy.

You are correct. The United Empire Loyalists did go to Canada. Canada will not get rid of the monarchy, in my opinion. All polls show that the monarchy's popularity has only increased. If they were to get rid of them, they should have done it in the '90's, as that was when their popularity was lowest due to Diana's death, etc. But now, especially thanks to William, Kate, and Prince George; their popularity has soared. Without the monarchy, what would Canada become? The 51st state? I think Canada should keep the monarchy and join the EU. Also, I like the monarchy.