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Thread: Makin a map of EEF, WHG and ANE admixtures in Europe. Please post your data.

  1. #126
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    Country: Italy



    1 members found this post helpful.

    Venet ancestors

    My results based on Eurogenes K13 and that Excel file:
    EEF: 68.142275
    WHG: 21.004465
    ANE: 10.85326

    Based on Eurogenes ANE K7:
    ANE: 12.16
    ASE: 0.50
    WHG-UHG: 50.70
    East_Eurasian: 0.18
    West_African 0.16
    East_African: -
    ENF: 36.29

    Based on Eurogenes Hunter_Gatherer vs. Farmer:
    Anatolian Farmer: 16.18%
    Baltic Hunter Gatherer: 34.78%
    Middle Eastern Herder: 7.54%
    East Asian Farmer: -
    South American Hunter Gatherer: -
    South Asian Hunter Gatherer: -
    North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer: -
    East African Pastoralist: -
    Oceanian Hunter Gatherer: -
    Mediterranean Farmer: 41.50%
    Pygmy Hunter Gatherer: -
    Bantu Farmer: -

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    Quote Originally Posted by cattel View Post
    My results based on Eurogenes K13 and that Excel file:
    EEF: 68.142275
    WHG: 21.004465
    ANE: 10.85326

    Based on Eurogenes ANE K7:
    ANE: 12.16
    ASE: 0.50
    WHG-UHG: 50.70
    East_Eurasian: 0.18
    West_African 0.16
    East_African: -
    ENF: 36.29

    Based on Eurogenes Hunter_Gatherer vs. Farmer:
    Anatolian Farmer: 16.18%
    Baltic Hunter Gatherer: 34.78%
    Middle Eastern Herder: 7.54%
    East Asian Farmer: -
    South American Hunter Gatherer: -
    South Asian Hunter Gatherer: -
    North Eurasian Hunter Gatherer: -
    East African Pastoralist: -
    Oceanian Hunter Gatherer: -
    Mediterranean Farmer: 41.50%
    Pygmy Hunter Gatherer: -
    Bantu Farmer: -
    I am Venet in ancestory

    my numbers
    EEF 69
    WHG 22
    ANE 10


    UHG 49.96
    ENF 35.92
    ANE 11.49


    What town in Italy was your family from?
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    deleted by poster
    Last edited by Regio X; 09-02-15 at 00:33.

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    Country: France



    Hello, i'm almost 100% french (1/32 polish) my father is from languedoc , and my mother is from the north of the country. My results based on eurogenes k13:
    EEF:58,012
    WHG:29,61722
    ANE:12,37078

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    Country: France



    Eurogenes_ANE K7 Results:

    ANE 13.58%
    ASE 2.74%
    WHG-UHG 59.88%
    East_Eurasian 0.58%
    West_African -
    East_African 0.79%
    ENF 22.43%

    Eurogenes K13 Results through the Excel sheet:

    EEF 54.04838423
    WHG 32.00556804
    ANE 13.94604773

    Ethnicity is French, the whole family being from the German border, with additions from Northern Italy and Poland dating from late 19th - early 20th century.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orillion View Post
    Eurogenes_ANE K7 Results:


    Eurogenes K13 Results through the Excel sheet:


    Ethnicity is French, the whole family being from the German border, with additions from Northern Italy and Poland dating from late 19th - early 20th century.
    That's typical of France, west Germany, Belgium, and South Dutch. All samples from those regions I've seen kind of cluster together. Germans outside of that region cluster more so with Scandinavians and British-Irish, and in Southwest French they're very similar to Basque.

    France has always been genetically diverse, because it formed out of a multi-ethnic Roman province. Although West Germans look like they could mostly be from Gauls(under Rome) who became Germanic-speakers. I fit in this cluster, but not because I'm French or something but because I'm a mixture of very northern, very southern, and intermediate(West German) European elements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    That's typical of France, west Germany, Belgium, and South Dutch. All samples from those regions I've seen kind of cluster together. Germans outside of that region cluster more so with Scandinavians and British-Irish, and in Southwest French they're very similar to Basque.

    France has always been genetically diverse, because it formed out of a multi-ethnic Roman province. Although West Germans look like they could mostly be from Gauls(under Rome) who became Germanic-speakers. I fit in this cluster, but not because I'm French or something but because I'm a mixture of very northern, very southern, and intermediate(West German) European elements.
    France is as "multi ethnic" as any country in this world. The French people cluster generally with Central and Northwest Europeans. Even the South French cluster closer to North French. Basques are compared to other Iberians significantly closer to French but yet not "extraordinary" more.

    The difference between South France and North France is not bigger as the difference between North Germany-South Germany or North Iberia and South Iberia.
    Last edited by Alan; 19-04-15 at 02:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    The difference between South France and North France is not bigger as the difference between North Germany-South Germany or North Iberia and South Iberia.
    You can look at any admixture results with samples from differnt regions in France. There's a lot of variation. They vary from almost British-like to Basque-like. Those are the two extremes.

    France is multi-ethnic in the ancient sense. Rome brought together various Gaulish and non-Gaulish tribes in a huge area to make provinces which eventually became France. The foundation of France is not the same as in all countries, and it covers a huge area, so we should expect variation.

    SouthWest French used to speak Basque(ancestral form), so it makes sense they're so similar to Basque.

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    Ethnic group
    Italian
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    These are very blunt tools looking at total affinity to very ancient population groups.Going by IBD analysis there are differences within Europe in terms of substructure..

    Ralph and Coop et al
    http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...l.pbio.1001555

    "One of the striking patterns we see is the relatively high level of sharing of IBD between pairs of individuals across eastern Europe, as high or higher than that observed within other, much smaller populations. This is consistent with these individuals having a comparatively large proportion of ancestry drawn from a relatively small population that expanded over a large geographic area. The “smooth” estimates of Figure 4 (and more generally Figures 5 and S17) suggest that this increase in ancestry stems from around 1,000–2,000 ya, since during this time pairs of eastern individuals are expected to share a substantial number of common ancestors, while this is only true of pairs of noneastern individuals if they are from the same population. The eastern populations with high rates of IBD are highly coincident with the modern distribution of Slavic languages, so it is natural to speculate that much of the higher rates were due to this expansion."


    "On the other hand, we find that France and the Italian and Iberian peninsulas have the lowest rates of genetic common ancestry in the last 1,500 years (other than Turkey and Cyprus), and are the regions of continental Europe thought to have been least affected by the Slavic and Hunnic migrations. These regions were, however, moved into by Germanic tribes (e.g., the Goths, Ostrogoths, and Vandals), which suggests that perhaps the Germanic migrations/invasions of these regions entailed a smaller degree of population replacement than the Slavic and/or Hunnic, or perhaps that the Germanic groups were less genealogically cohesive. This is consistent with the argument that the Slavs moved into relatively depopulated areas, while Gothic “migrations” may have been takeovers by small groups of extant populations [54],[55].

    In addition to the very few genetic common ancestors that Italians share both with each other and with other Europeans, we have seen significant modern substructure within Italy (i.e., Figure 2) that predates most of this common ancestry, and estimate that most of the common ancestry shared between Italy and other populations is older than about 2,300 years (Figure S16). Also recall that most populations show no substructure with regards to the number of blocks shared with Italians, implying that the common ancestors other populations share with Italy predate divisions within these other populations. This suggests significant old substructure and large population sizes within Italy, strong enough that different groups within Italy share as little recent common ancestry as other distinct, modern-day countries, substructure that was not homogenized during the migration period. These patterns could also reflect in part geographic isolation within Italy as well as a long history of settlement of Italy from diverse sources.
    In contrast to Italy, the rate of sharing of IBD within the Iberian peninsula is similar to that within other populations in Europe. There is furthermore much less evidence of substructure within our Iberian samples than within the Italians, as shown in Figure S2. This suggests that the reduced rate of shared ancestry is due to geographic isolation (by distance and/or the Pyrenees) rather than long-term stable substructure within the peninsula."


    Unfortunately, they didn't go into great detail about the Germans. As to them, I think I would tend to agree with Fire Haired's speculations. Also, this doesn't specifically address how much substructure there is in France compared to Germany or compared to Spain. The amount of substructure in Italy is of another order. They go into detail about it in the paper.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post


    Unfortunately, they didn't go into great detail about the Germans. As to them, I think I would tend to agree with Fire Haired's speculations. Also, this doesn't specifically address how much substructure there is in France compared to Germany or compared to Spain. The amount of substructure in Italy is of another order. They go into detail about it in the paper.
    I find it a little vague too. I wish they put some harder numbers into population replacement/mixing by region. From what they wrote and admixtures levels by country I gather that Slavs could count for around 50 percent of genetic material in Balkans, except Greece and Albania. On other hand Germanic genetic influence is not bigger than 5 to 10% in regions of Western Europe, not including Germanic speaking nations. Linguistic patterns also point to similar conclusions in my opinion.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    You can look at any admixture results with samples from differnt regions in France. There's a lot of variation. They vary from almost British-like to Basque-like. Those are the two extremes.

    France is multi-ethnic in the ancient sense. Rome brought together various Gaulish and non-Gaulish tribes in a huge area to make provinces which eventually became France. The foundation of France is not the same as in all countries, and it covers a huge area, so we should expect variation.

    SouthWest French used to speak Basque(ancestral form), so it makes sense they're so similar to Basque.


    My friend there are dozens of autosomal analysis of French people. Even if they are not divided by regions chances are high that many of them are mixed from different regions. And they always cluster next by each other building a fluent transition. Most of France and the French people re in general descend of pre Roman/Germanic Celtic tribes with allot of Germanic and Roman admixture.

    All I am saying is the genetic diversity in France is not bigger as the genetic diversity in many other parts of Europe.
    Last edited by Alan; 19-04-15 at 04:34.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I find it a little vague too. I wish they put some harder numbers into population replacement/mixing by region. From what they wrote and admixtures levels by country I gather that Slavs could count for around 50 percent of genetic material in Balkans, except Greece and Albania. On other hand Germanic genetic influence is not bigger than 5 to 10% in regions of Western Europe, not including Germanic speaking nations. Linguistic patterns also point to similar conclusions in my opinion.
    I agree, far-eastern Slavs are included. Russians and Ukrainians are probably mostly Central-European Slavic. They're far more similar to Poles than to their Finno-Urgic and Turkic neighbors, who are more similar to Bronze age Samara Yamna(and therefore more native to the region). Lots of Balkan Slavs also obviously have a lot of Polish-like Slavic input to. Most Serbians and Bosnians are closer to Poles than to Albanians and Greeks.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Fire-Haired you're dead wrong and stop trying to become an expert on everything. Northern Russians are way closer to Uralic populations than they are to Poles. Serbians and Bosnians also are 1/4th-1/3rd Slavic at the most. Only Slovenians get anywhere more than 50% Slavic. There was already plenty of Central and Eastern European-like DNA in the Balkans from pre-Slavic IE groups.

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    All i know is that according to GEDmatch, i always end up clustered very close to West Germans (3.41) and South Dutchs (4.3), and much much farther (almost twice as far according to the least square method) from French (7.78) per se. This is probably because most of my family comes from the Rhine valley (the Rhine having been the main trade route) and hasn't moved much in the last centuries (except for additions from afar at the time of the industrial revolution.

    As for French admixtures, i've always read that there was a slow admixture gradient from Portugal to Poland, and that French and German in particular often clustered together (with people from, say, Southwest France clustering a bit farther from Germans and a bit closer to Spaniards, etc.), but i suppose the same can probably be said about pretty much every other European country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    In order to make such maps we need a lot of data from all over the Europe. By the nature of this data collection it will be a self reporting project. It is not the best way, but it might be the only way to gather data for these maps. Please post your EEF, WHG, EEF numbers with place of birth, or place of birth of your parents if they came from different region than you were born in.

    Little explanation of these admixtures:

    These admixtures can roughly tell you about your origin.
    WHG - West Hunter Gatherers, were the Mesolithic Europeans spread pretty much all over the Europe around 10 to 5 thousand BCE.
    EEF - Early European Farmers, were the Neolithic inhabitants of Europe, the first farmers who came 10 thousand years ago from Near East and first settled in Balkans and the rest of South Europe. In next 5 thousand years they've spread to every corner of Europe.
    ANE - Ancient North Eurasians, the hunter-gatherers and nomads from far East Europe and Central Asia. Latest research papers point to Indo-Europeans bringing ANE to every place in Europe.

    Example:
    Poland, Siedlce (country, city or region)
    EEF - 45
    WHG - 39
    ANE - 16

    One can say that I'm 39% very ancient European, 45% farmer from Near East, and 16% Indo-European. Or that I'm 55% Hunter-Gatherer and 45% Farmer.

    More information:
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/201...est-three.html

    Some data from the paper by Lazaridis:
    EEF WHG ANE
    0.781 0.092 0.127 -- Albanian
    0.931 0 0.069 -- Ashkenazi_Jew
    0.593 0.293 0.114 -- Basque
    0.418 0.431 0.151 -- Belorussian
    0.715 0.177 0.108 -- Bergamo
    0.712 0.147 0.141 -- Bulgarian
    0.561 0.293 0.145 -- Croatian
    0.495 0.338 0.167 -- Czech
    0.495 0.364 0.141 -- English
    0.322 0.495 0.183 -- Estonian
    0.554 0.311 0.135 -- French
    0.675 0.195 0.13 -- French_South
    0.792 0.058 0.151 -- Greek
    0.558 0.264 0.179 -- Hungarian
    0.394 0.456 0.15 -- Icelandic
    0.364 0.464 0.172 -- Lithuanian
    0.932 0 0.068 -- Maltese
    0.411 0.428 0.161 -- Norwegian
    0.457 0.385 0.158 -- Orcadian
    0.713 0.125 0.163 -- Pais_Vasco
    0.817 0.175 0.008 -- Sardinian
    0.39 0.428 0.182 -- Scottish
    0.903 0 0.097 -- Sicilian
    0.809 0.068 0.123 -- Spanish
    0.746 0.136 0.118 -- Tuscan
    0.462 0.387 0.151 -- Ukrainian



    Here is the explanation how you can calculate your admixtures:
    http://bga101.blogspot.com.au/2013/1...europeans.html
    On EEF the paper states: Early European Farmer (EEF): apparently this is a hybrid component, the result of mixture between "Basal Eurasians" and a WHG-like population possibly from the Balkans. (possibly from Balkans) how do you know it came from near east (does it say on a paper?).

    This might correlates with Maciamo arguing about E-V13 (10,000 ybp), as its peak or roots is south east balkans. And before that its a subclade of M-78 (south east Africa). And M-78 might have crossed (before 10,000 ybp) straight to south east balkans (or even Iberia) and not through Levant and Anatolia.
    It also correlates with I2a1...So only possible early Neolithic in Europe I2a1 and E-V13?....Then I2a1 and E-V13 has nothing to do with near east farmers nor even migrating from the near east

    Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).
    Cruciani et al. (2007)

    On the other side looks like its pretty complicated, if we can say the more Yanmaya R* (4,500) from the graph the less Mesolithic or Neolthic, and more the WHG and EEF then more Mesolithic and early Neolithic. Credit goes to Sardinains and Bulgarians with pretty high I2a1 and Albanians and Greeks with E-V13
    How come then Spain, tuscany, basques, Bergamo has one of the highest EEF and its very very high in R1b?....
    Last edited by noUseForAname; 03-06-15 at 02:47.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noUseForAname View Post
    On EEF the paper states: Early European Farmer (EEF): apparently this is a hybrid component, the result of mixture between "Basal Eurasians" and a WHG-like population possibly from the Balkans. (possibly from Balkans) how do you know it came from near east (does it say on a paper?).
    To be exact EEF is European hybrid, and it was found in Stuttgart. However it has over 80% component which came with first farmers. It is called Early Neolithic Farmer admixture. From archaeology we know that first farmers happened in Near East, and then farming spread to Europe through Balkans. We are yet to physically find and sequence this supposed ENF genome. Though it is pretty sure thing that we will find it there.

    This correlates with Maciamo arguing about E-V13 (10,000 ybp), as its peak or roots is south east balkans. And before that its a subclade of M-78 (south east Africa). And M-78 might have crossed (before 10,000 ybp) straight to south east balkans (or even Iberia) and not through Levant and Anatolia.
    If E-V13 came with farmers to Balkans, it most likely started in Near East and walked from there to Europe with other farmers of G2a type, as minority clade. If it came to Europe in Mesolithic, then it came as hunter-gatherer. It could have originated in Saharan Africa, then came to Iberia, bringing North African admixture, which was found in some WHGs. When farmers came and acquired V13 from hunter gatherers it could spread around in bigger numbers throughout Europe with farmers.

    Looking at E-V13 map, it looks wide spread in every part of Europe, therefore very ancient. It started expansion in Mid Neolithic to my guess, and in direction from South to North.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    To be exact EEF is European hybrid, and it was found in Stuttgart. However it has over 80% component which came with first farmers. It is called Early Neolithic Farmer admixture. From archaeology we know that first farmers happened in Near East, and then farming spread to Europe through Balkans. We are yet to physically find and sequence this supposed ENF genome. Though it is pretty sure thing that we will find it there.

    If E-V13 came with farmers to Balkans, it most likely started in Near East and walked from there to Europe with other farmers of G2a type, as minority clade. If it came to Europe in Mesolithic, then it came as hunter-gatherer. It could have originated in Saharan Africa, then came to Iberia, bringing North African admixture, which was found in some WHGs. When farmers came and acquired V13 from hunter gatherers it could spread around in bigger numbers throughout Europe with farmers.

    Looking at E-V13 map, it looks wide spread in every part of Europe, therefore very ancient. It started expansion in Mid Neolithic to my guess, and in direction from South to North.
    As yet , there has never been found any E in central europe in neolithic farming times

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    To be exact EEF is European hybrid, and it was found in Stuttgart. However it has over 80% component which came with first farmers. It is called Early Neolithic Farmer admixture. From archaeology we know that first farmers happened in Near East, and then farming spread to Europe through Balkans. We are yet to physically find and sequence this supposed ENF genome. Though it is pretty sure thing that we will find it there.

    If E-V13 came with farmers to Balkans, it most likely started in Near East and walked from there to Europe with other farmers of G2a type, as minority clade. If it came to Europe in Mesolithic, then it came as hunter-gatherer. It could have originated in Saharan Africa, then came to Iberia, bringing North African admixture, which was found in some WHGs. When farmers came and acquired V13 from hunter gatherers it could spread around in bigger numbers throughout Europe with farmers.

    Looking at E-V13 map, it looks wide spread in every part of Europe, therefore very ancient. It started expansion in Mid Neolithic to my guess, and in direction from South to North.

    Recent discoveries in Europe, such as Cyprus and mainland Greece has shown that farming started early in south east Europe. In Franchthi Cavein Greece there are no certain gathering of plant foods attested before c.11,000bc, although large numbers of seeds of the Boraginaceae family may come from plants gathered to furnish soft bedding or for the dye which their roots may have supplied. First appearing at c. 11,000bc are lentils, vetch, pistachios, and almonds. Then c. 10,500bc appear a few very rare seeds of wild oats and wild barley. Neither wild oats nor wild barley become at all common until c. 7000bc[19][20] in Cyprus. The oldest agricultural settlement ever found on a Mediterranean island has been discovered in Klimonas. between 9100 and 8600 bc

    Anthropological and archaeological evidence from sites across Southwest Asia and North Africa indicate use of wild grain (e.g., from the c. 20,000bc site of Ohalo II in Israel, many Natufian sites in the Levant and from sites along the Nile in the 10th millennium bc).
    It was not until after 9500 bc that the eight so-called founder crops of agriculture appear: first emmer and einkorn wheat, then hulled barley, peas,lentils, bitter vetch, chick peas and flax. These eight crops occur more or less simultaneously on Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB) sites in the Levant
    By 7000 bc, sowing and harvesting reached Mesopotamia.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_agriculture

    What i understand is not the near East (considering Syria, Anatolia, Mesopotamia) but the far north east Africa (M-78 peak) and the very south west Levant like Ohalo.
    So that might mean that by 10,000 BC there was already farming in the far south east Balkans that came from north east Africa and the far south west Levant.
    It looks like the peak was south east Africa which at the same time spread in one direction at Crete and then Peloponnese (reaching south East Europe without going across through Levant and Anatolia) and the other group spread through Levant Syria and reached Mesopotamia by 7,000 BC. It might be that this second group may not be E-V13 or M-78 in majority as nowadays this group has minimal %.

    It also correlates with M-78 and E-V13 link through north east Africa and not the other way around through north Levant and Anatolia.

    Maybe not as a minority as you mention because who else was there before G2a I2a1 and E-V13 and with higher numbers?, i Would suppose (at early Neolithic through mid Neolithic) the Majority in Europe (excluding current Russia) was:
    1: I2a1 & I1
    2: E-V13
    3: G2a1 (dont know why or how by today is still low)
    4: R1b (became a majority in Europe after 4,000 ybp)
    5: R1a (pushed more south to current Europe from Today Russia after around 4,000 ybp)
    J2 not much info, (probably came in more numbers after the bronze age)
    Last edited by noUseForAname; 30-05-15 at 02:09.

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    don’t have much info about R1a, and J2 (probably came much later)
    ???

    There is a sample of R1a from Karelia (7500 years old), three samples of R1a near the Belarusian-Russian border (one 6000 years old and two 4500 years old). Then there are six R1a samples from Corded Ware cultures in East Germany (4 samples) and Poland (2 samples), then one R1a sample from the Lusatian culture and two from another of Urnfield cultures - all from period 4800 - 3000 years ago.

    Check this thread if you want to see maps:

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...cape-of-Europe

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    These are locations of ancient DNA samples of R1a and R1b haplogroups found so far, from period 8000 - 2000 years ago:



    The two oldest samples - 7500 ybp (from Southern Deer Island, Lake Onega, Karelia) and 6000 ybp (found near the city of Velizh) were hunter-gatherers.

    Samples of R1a from Poland and East Germany were found in the context of Copper-Bronze Age Corded Ware cultures (4600 ybp, 4400 ybp and 4000 ybp), as well as the Lusatian Culture (3100 ybp). Samples of R1b from Germany were found in the context of Copper-Bronze Age Bell Beaker cultures (4500 ybp and 4300 ybp):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusatian_culture

    Only the burial site belonging to Urnfield cultural horizon located near Dorste (3000 ybp) happened to contain both R1a (x2) and R1b (x1):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urnfield_culture

    The most important of all settlements of the Lusatian Culture found so far, was Biskupin:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biskupin


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    Quote Originally Posted by Domen View Post
    These are locations of ancient DNA samples of R1a and R1b haplogroups found so far, from period 8000 - 2000 years ago:

    And modern dominant haplogroups by country for comparison - R1b is pink here (while R1a is red like before):


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    And modern dominant haplogroups by country for comparison - R1b is pink here (while R1a is red like before):
    I meant early Neolithic through mid Neolithic and if excluding current Russia and the far north east Belarus.

    Still looks like as below (early Neolithic through mid Neolithic) the Majority in Europe (excluding current Russia) was:
    1: I2a1 & I1
    2: E-V13
    3: G2a1 (dont know why or how by today is still low)
    4: R1b (became a majority in Europe after 4,000 ybp)
    5: R1a (pushed more south to current Europe from Today Russia after around 4,500 ybp)
    J2 not much info, (probably came in more numbers after the bronze age)


    By the way Croatia has much more I* then R1a....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    with these numbers
    ...
    0.713 0.125 0.163 -- Pais_Vasco ..................................hmm, does it mean Paese Vasconic in Italian...I know its basque area?
    ....
    "País vasco" is simply Spanish for "Basque Country".

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    I'm mostly French Canadian, with wee little bit of Scot, Dutch, Austrian, English, Portugese, Abenaki and Ojibwe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    And modern dominant haplogroups by country for comparison - R1b is pink here (while R1a is red like before):
    A map, where R1 is treated as one clade would be much truer,
    than artificial deviding these both on two separate groups.

    In such case:

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Rethel; 23-04-16 at 20:43.

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