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Thread: Makin a map of EEF, WHG and ANE admixtures in Europe. Please post your data.

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    4 members found this post helpful.

    Makin a map of EEF, WHG and ANE admixtures in Europe. Please post your data.

    In order to make such maps we need a lot of data from all over the Europe. By the nature of this data collection it will be a self reporting project. It is not the best way, but it might be the only way to gather data for these maps. Please post your EEF, WHG, EEF numbers with place of birth, or place of birth of your parents if they came from different region than you were born in.

    Little explanation of these admixtures:

    These admixtures can roughly tell you about your origin.
    WHG - West Hunter Gatherers, were the Mesolithic Europeans spread pretty much all over the Europe around 10 to 5 thousand BCE.
    EEF - Early European Farmers, were the Neolithic inhabitants of Europe, the first farmers who came 10 thousand years ago from Near East and first settled in Balkans and the rest of South Europe. In next 5 thousand years they've spread to every corner of Europe.
    ANE - Ancient North Eurasians, the hunter-gatherers and nomads from far East Europe and Central Asia. Latest research papers point to Indo-Europeans bringing ANE to every place in Europe.

    Example:
    Poland, Siedlce (country, city or region)
    EEF - 45
    WHG - 39
    ANE - 16

    One can say that I'm 39% very ancient European, 45% farmer from Near East, and 16% Indo-European. Or that I'm 55% Hunter-Gatherer and 45% Farmer.

    More information:
    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/201...est-three.html

    Some data from the paper by Lazaridis:
    EEF WHG ANE
    0.781 0.092 0.127 -- Albanian
    0.931 0 0.069 -- Ashkenazi_Jew
    0.593 0.293 0.114 -- Basque
    0.418 0.431 0.151 -- Belorussian
    0.715 0.177 0.108 -- Bergamo
    0.712 0.147 0.141 -- Bulgarian
    0.561 0.293 0.145 -- Croatian
    0.495 0.338 0.167 -- Czech
    0.495 0.364 0.141 -- English
    0.322 0.495 0.183 -- Estonian
    0.554 0.311 0.135 -- French
    0.675 0.195 0.13 -- French_South
    0.792 0.058 0.151 -- Greek
    0.558 0.264 0.179 -- Hungarian
    0.394 0.456 0.15 -- Icelandic
    0.364 0.464 0.172 -- Lithuanian
    0.932 0 0.068 -- Maltese
    0.411 0.428 0.161 -- Norwegian
    0.457 0.385 0.158 -- Orcadian
    0.713 0.125 0.163 -- Pais_Vasco
    0.817 0.175 0.008 -- Sardinian
    0.39 0.428 0.182 -- Scottish
    0.903 0 0.097 -- Sicilian
    0.809 0.068 0.123 -- Spanish
    0.746 0.136 0.118 -- Tuscan
    0.462 0.387 0.151 -- Ukrainian



    Here is the explanation how you can calculate your admixtures:
    http://bga101.blogspot.com.au/2013/1...europeans.html
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Maps done by Maciamo









    I only created rough maps on data above and some guesswork. They will be updated and improved when more data comes in.

    ANE map.jpgWHG map.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by LeBrok; 14-03-15 at 23:16.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    I think the best place to start would be the academic data from Lazaridis et al, yes? It's on page 10 of the supplement. Of course you'd have to choose which set is most informative.
    http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/s...1/001552-1.pdf

    Ed. Sorry, cross post, or is it? I'll have to check if the Eurogenes figures are lifted from the study, and if so, which he chose...

    Ed. Yes, it's the individual fit column. The Finns, Mordovians and Russians couldn't be done.


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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Interesting that at least two of the low frequency areas for ANE are non-Indo European speaking areas: Basque country, and part of Toscana.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Interesting that at least two of the low frequency areas for ANE are non-Indo European speaking areas: Basque country, and part of Toscana.

    Yes, and also interestingly the other none IE, Hungarians and Finns, are heavily ANE. Obviously other Asiatic peoples like Huns, Turks and Siberians brought more ANE with them. ANE wasn't exclusive to IE obviously.

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    I don't think the averages fit for Basque-like people. País Vasco possess 5% more ANE than "Basques", when everyone who's being following amateur projects knows that both samples are almost identical. So everything should be taken with caution while creating the averages.

    Mine (Catalonia)

    EEF 66,70916
    WHG 23,20789
    ANE 10,08295

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    with these numbers

    0.715 0.177 0.108 -- Bergamo
    0.712 0.147 0.141 -- Bulgarian
    0.675 0.195 0.13 -- French_South
    0.713 0.125 0.163 -- Pais_Vasco ..................................hmm, does it mean Paese Vasconic in Italian...I know its basque area?

    0.692 0.202 0.106 for me , would mean I fit in the above group, where and for what reason did you merge ANE and WHG
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    with these numbers
    ...
    0.713 0.125 0.163 -- Pais_Vasco ..................................hmm, does it mean Paese Vasconic in Italian...I know its basque area?
    ....
    "País vasco" is simply Spanish for "Basque Country".

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The latest Academic [Lazaridis] figures from April 2014;
    p.111: http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/s...4/001552-3.pdf

    EEF WHG ANE
    Albanian: 78.1 / 9.2 / 12.7
    Ashkenazi_Jew: 93.1 / 0 / 6.9
    Basque: 59.3 / 29.3 / 11.4
    Belarusian: 41.8 / 43.1 / 15.1
    Bergamo: 71.5 / 17.7 / 10.8
    Bulgarian: 71.2 / 14.7 / 14.1
    Croatian: 56.1 / 29.3 / 14.5
    Czech: 49.5 / 33.8 / 16.7
    English: 49.5 / 36.4 / 14.1
    Estonian: 32.2 / 49.5 / 18.3
    French: 55.4 / 31.1 / 13.5
    French_South: 67.5 / 19.5 / 13
    Greek: 79.2 / 5.8 / 15.1
    Hungarian: 55.8 / 26.4 / 17.9
    Icelandic: 39.4 / 45.6 / 15
    Lithuanian: 36.4 / 46.4 / 17.2
    Maltese: 93.2 / 0 / 6.8
    Norwegian: 41.1 / 42.8 / 16.1
    Orcadian: 45.7 / 38.5 / 15.8
    Sardinian: 81.7 / 17.5 / 0.8
    Scottish: 39 / 42.8 / 18.2
    Sicilian: 90.3 / 0 / 9.7
    Spainish: 80.9 / 6.8 / 12.3
    Spainish_North: 71.3 / 12.5 / 16.3
    Tuscan: 74.6 / 13.6 / 11.8
    Ukrainian: 46.2 / 38.7 / 15.1

    The SHG (Sandinavian Hunter-gatherers) seem to be having ANE admixture as well;

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    The SHG (Sandinavian Hunter-gatherers) seem to be having ANE admixture as well;
    Is the Norwegian SHG admixture contained in ANE or is it the 4th admixture showing as separate reading but in small amounts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Is the Norwegian SHG admixture contained in ANE or is it the 4th admixture showing as separate reading but in small amounts?
    It is pretty clear that the Scandinavian hunter gatherers specifically had minority ANE ancestry, there is plenty of evidence. The mtDNA of the Scandinavian and Russian hunter gatherers is very similar, the PWC and Karelian hunter gatherers shared nearly 40% of the exact same mtDNA haplotypes. There was some type of genetic connection between eastern Europe and Scandinavia during the Mesolithic.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Is the Norwegian SHG admixture contained in ANE or is it the 4th admixture showing as separate reading but in small amounts?
    That i dont know;
    I just obtained that info from p.10:
    http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...01552.full.pdf
    Loschbour and Stuttgart had little or no ANE ancestry, indicating that it was not as pervasive in central Europe around the time of the agricultural transition as it is today. (By implication ANE ancestry was also not present in the ancient Near East; since Stuttgart which has substantial Near Eastern ancestry lacks it.) However, ANE ancestry was already present in at least some Europeans (Scandinavian hunter-gatherers) by ~8,000 years ago, since MA1 shares more alleles with Motala12 than Loschbour: f4 (Motala12; Loschbour; MA1, Mbuti) = 0.003 (Z=5.2 standard errors from zero) (SI12). While SHG may have contributed ANE ancestry to modern Europeans, it cannot have been the only population that did so, as no European population has its lower f3-statistic with it in Table 1, and few populations fit a model of EEF-SHG admixture (SI12)


    And i seriously hope who ever will make this map he/she is not taking the Internet-Blog figures (Eurogense) too seriously especially not in comparison to the actual academic data from the study itself; reasons should be obvious;

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    And i seriously hope who ever will make this map he/she is not taking the Internet-Blog figures (Eurogense) too seriously especially not in comparison to the actual academic data from the study itself; reasons should be obvious;
    What, you've never actually seen any academic studies with obviously bogus results? I can show you several if you're really interested.

    Your constant whining and efforts to appeal to authority are getting tiresome. Try using that noodle of yours for a change.

    Of course, the best thing to do would be to make two maps, one based on the latest Lazaridis et al. figures and another on this updated Eurogenes K13 averages sheet:

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9o3...5hUlNvNzg/edit

    Then we can see how they correlate with each other and which one makes more sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polako View Post
    What, you've never actually seen any academic studies with obviously bogus results? I can show you several if you're really interested.

    Your constant whining and efforts to appeal to authority are getting tiresome. Try using that noodle of yours for a change.

    Of course, the best thing to do would be to make two maps, one based on the latest Lazaridis et al. figures and another on this updated Eurogenes K13 averages sheet:

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9o3...5hUlNvNzg/edit

    Then we can see how they correlate with each other and which one makes more sense.
    If it gets too tiresome just quit;
    And obviously you seriously think that the "data" you and your expert Blog create are on par with data from academic sources and proper institutions; funny or sad;

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    Quote Originally Posted by polako View Post

    Of course, the best thing to do would be to make two maps, one based on the latest Lazaridis et al. figures and another on this updated Eurogenes K13 averages sheet:

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9o3...5hUlNvNzg/edit

    Then we can see how they correlate with each other and which one makes more sense.
    Thanks for the latest numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody1 View Post
    The latest Academic [Lazaridis] figures from April 2014;
    p.111: http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/s...4/001552-3.pdf
    Is Lazaridis a geneticist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Is Lazaridis a geneticist?
    He is a Post-Doctoral Fellow at David Reich's Genetics Lab at Harvard University.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    He is a Post-Doctoral Fellow at David Reich's Genetics Lab at Harvard University.
    Thanks, I knew, but I asked if he was a geneticist.

    According to this, He has a PhD on "Information and Computer Science"
    If it's true, He is not geneticist, even if he is a Post-Doctoral Fellow at David Reich's Genetics Lab at Harvard University

    http://contactbee.com/en/contact/view/5000459


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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Thanks, I knew, but I asked if he was a geneticist.

    According to this, He has a PhD on "Information and Computer Science"
    If it's true, He is not geneticist, even if he is a Post-Doctoral Fellow at David Reich's Genetics Lab at Harvard University

    http://contactbee.com/en/contact/view/5000459


    Education/degrees

    University of California, Irvine - Ph.D. , Information and Computer Science

    University of California, Irvine - Master of Science (M.S.) , Information and Computer Science

    National Technical University of Athens - Diploma in Engineering , Electrical and Computer Engineering
    Lazaridis often co-authors with Nick Patterson, who is usually described as a "computational biologist" rather than a geneticist, and the same may apply to Lazaridis. Lazaridis also often co-authors with David Reich, who is in fact a geneticist, in the strictest sense of the term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Thanks, I knew, but I asked if he was a geneticist.

    According to this, He has a PhD on "Information and Computer Science"
    If it's true, He is not geneticist, even if he is a Post-Doctoral Fellow at David Reich's Genetics Lab at Harvard University

    http://contactbee.com/en/contact/view/5000459


    Education/degrees

    University of California, Irvine - Ph.D. , Information and Computer Science

    University of California, Irvine - Master of Science (M.S.) , Information and Computer Science

    National Technical University of Athens - Diploma in Engineering , Electrical and Computer Engineering
    I'm afraid I don't get your point. The study of population genetics is heavily dependent on such disciplines. It is not only or even primarily focused on the changes in the cells. Population genetics is, in fact, a new discipline. Regardless, the paper to which you refer was prepared by the Reich Lab at Harvard Medical School under the direction of David Reich (who is a geneticist proper), with Lazaridis as the lead author. The paper also lists as contributing authors a whole host of renowned population geneticists.

    Iosif Lazaridis, Nick Patterson, Alissa Mittnik, Gabriel Renaud, Swapan Mallick, Peter H. Sudmant, Joshua G. Schraiber, Sergi Castellano, Karola Kirsanow, Christos Economou, Ruth Bollongino, Qiaomei Fu, Kirsten Bos, Susanne Nordenfelt, Cesare de Filippo, Kay Prüfer, Susanna Sawyer, Cosimo Posth, Wolfgang Haak, Fredrik Hallgren, Elin Fornander, George Ayodo, Hamza A. Babiker, Elena Balanovska, Oleg Balanovsky, Haim Ben-Ami, Judit Bene, Fouad Berrada, Francesca Brisighelli, George B.J. Busby, Francesco Cali, Mikhail Churnosov, David E.C. Cole, Larissa Damba, Dominique Delsate, George van Driem, Stanislav Dryomov, Sardana A. Fedorova, Michael Francken, Irene Gallego Romero, Marina Gubina, Jean-Michel Guinet, Michael Hammer, Brenna Henn, Tor Helvig, Ugur Hodoglugil, Aashish R. Jha, Rick Kittles, Elza Khusnutdinova, Toomas Kivisild, Vaidutis Kučinskas, Rita Khusainova, Alena Kushniarevich, Leila Laredj, Sergey Litvinov, Robert W. Mahley, Béla Melegh, Ene Metspalu, Joanna Mountain, Thomas Nyambo, Ludmila Osipova, Jüri Parik, Fedor Platonov, Olga L. Posukh, Valentino Romano, Igor Rudan, Ruslan Ruizbakiev, Hovhannes Sahakyan, Antonio Salas, Elena B. Starikovskaya, Ayele Tarekegn, Draga Toncheva, Shahlo Turdikulova, Ingrida Uktveryte, Olga Utevska, Mikhail Voevoda, Joachim Wahl, Pierre Zalloua, Levon Yepiskoposyan, Tatijana Zemunik, Alan Cooper, Cristian Capelli, Mark G. Thomas, Sarah A. Tishkoff, Lalji Singh, Kumarasamy Thangaraj, Richard Villems, David Comas, Rem Sukernik, Mait Metspalu, Matthias Meyer, Evan E. Eichler, Joachim Burger, Montgomery Slatkin, Svante Pääbo, Janet Kelso, David Reich, Johannes Krause
    doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.1101/001552

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    I think I know what happened. Spanish_North includes Basques and Northern Spaniards. Dienekes' separated the real Basque individuals from the rest, calling this group País_Vasco. Seems like Lazaridis (aka Dienekes') forgot to change the nomenclature he was using in the Dodecad Project...LOL!

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    If anyone finds others posting their admixtures on other sites please copy them here with the link to the site. Thanks

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    I don't think it is smart to make a map like how Maciamo does, but it can be useful and help learn what how each is distributed. Some Europeans also have ancestry from other populations(i.e. east Asians and Sub Saharan, Africans) and their Eurogenes K13 conversion-WHG EEF ANE scores will not be 100% accurate. The best way to get an idea how Laz's WHG, EEF, and ANE is distributed in Europe is to print out an outline map of Europe off the internet and write in the percentages with pencil or make pie charts on excel and glue them on the map.

    The EEF component probably sucks in all middle eastern ancestry that does not have a Neolithic origin in Europe, so should just stand for middle eastern ancestry. Askenazi Jews score 93.1 EEF, and most of that is probably recent modern-like middle eastern ancestry. We also have to remember that Stuttgart aka EEF had some WHG ancestry. After the Laz genomes are accessible and the paper with 3,00-9,000YBP Russian genomes is published, amateurs like Dienekes and Davidski will probably make very accurate calculators for predicting ANE, WHG, middle eastern ancestry percentages in Europe.

    Davidski created two Mammoth-ME-ENA-SSA admixtures, where the mammoth reference is either La Brana-1 or MA1. Based on those admixtures and Laz's EEF-WHG-ANE test I think Stuttgart had ~20% WHG ancestry. If you recalculate results WHG goes way up and EEF way down. When I saw the recalculated results of Baltic people it is shocking that there are still people with so much Mesolithic ancestry, they are ~70% hunter gatherer(over 50% WHG!!) and only ~30% middle eastern.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    I don't think it is smart to make a map like how Maciamo does, but it can be useful and help learn what how each is distributed. Some Europeans also have ancestry from other populations(i.e. east Asians and Sub Saharan, Africans) and their Eurogenes K13 conversion-WHG EEF ANE scores will not be 100% accurate. The best way to get an idea how Laz's WHG, EEF, and ANE is distributed in Europe is to print out an outline map of Europe off the internet and write in the percentages with pencil or make pie charts on excel and glue them on the map.

    The EEF component probably sucks in all middle eastern ancestry that does not have a Neolithic origin in Europe, so should just stand for middle eastern ancestry. Askenazi Jews score 93.1 EEF, and most of that is probably recent modern-like middle eastern ancestry. We also have to remember that Stuttgart aka EEF had some WHG ancestry. After the Laz genomes are accessible and the paper with 3,00-9,000YBP Russian genomes is published, amateurs like Dienekes and Davidski will probably make very accurate calculators for predicting ANE, WHG, middle eastern ancestry percentages in Europe.

    Davidski created two Mammoth-ME-ENA-SSA admixtures, where the mammoth reference is either La Brana-1 or MA1. Based on those admixtures and Laz's EEF-WHG-ANE test I think Stuttgart had ~20% WHG ancestry. If you recalculate results WHG goes way up and EEF way down. When I saw the recalculated results of Baltic people it is shocking that there are still people with so much Mesolithic ancestry, they are ~70% hunter gatherer(over 50% WHG!!) and only ~30% middle eastern.

    if he makes a map like maciano does based on the ethnic markers known, he can then place us individuals on it to basically plot us. In this way we can at least get a trend

    What are you scared of?

    We do not need to place the ancient at this point in time

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