The Byzantine Empire must be revived

[Ike]

But that is what will happen, and the Balkans will remain less developed than some of the other EU countries.

While Balkan was under Ottoman occupation half of the Europe sucked the goods from their overseas colonies, so it's not a good comparison to make.
Even now EU countries don't restrain themselves from throwing religious war-starting bugs in here from time to time, just to keep us down.

 

[LeBrok]

Even now EU countries don't restrain themselves from throwing religious war-starting bugs in here from time to time, just to keep us down.

Yes, it is another conspiracy Ike can see. The whole world ganged up to keep Balkans down.
Your self-importance is too sensitive I would say.

 

[Ike]

No, no no. I didn't say the whole world. You've just made that up, because that would sound like something coming from the mouth of a paranoid man, which would consequently give you better position to mock my writings.
What's in it for you, I really don't know. They don't pay you for that? Some kind of weird inner satisfaction of kicking someone who is down runs through you.

 

[Fire Haired14]

No, no no. I didn't say the whole world. You've just made that up, because that would sound like something coming from the mouth of a paranoid man, which would consequently give you better position to mock my writings.
What's in it for you, I really don't know. They don't pay you for that? Some kind of weird inner satisfaction of kicking someone who is down runs through you.

I don't know anything about this subject but I see problems in the way you guys are arguing. I think we would learn much more and this would be a better forum if we all tried to correct the wrong ways we reason, not assume we(you as a individual) are perfect in the way we think and everyone who dis agrees is 100% wrong(everyone is born selfish), stop insulting each other so much, and had absolute respect for everyone.

 

[Echetlaeus]

I don't know anything about this subject but I see problems in the way you guys are arguing. I think we would learn much more and this would be a better forum if we all tried to correct the wrong ways we reason, not assume we(you as a individual) are perfect in the way we think and everyone who dis agrees is 100% wrong(everyone is born selfish), stop insulting each other so much, and had absolute respect for everyone.

I agree with your statement, but some people, whose names shan't be mentioned, are always willing to attack you, no matter what!

 

[Taranis]

In a way, the Byzantine empire was already revived, back in 1822, when modern Greece became independent. Modern Greece is much more of a revived Byzantium than a revived ancient Greece, as it has little of continuity with the latter, but a good deal of continuity with the former. As for reviving it in the sense of a totalitarian religious monarchy (by modern standards), I don't think the world needs any more of those...

 

[Echetlaeus]

In a way, the Byzantine empire was already revived, back in 1822, when modern Greece became independent. Modern Greece is much more of a revived Byzantium than a revived ancient Greece, as it has little of continuity with the latter, but a good deal of continuity with the former. As for reviving it in the sense of a totalitarian religious monarchy (by modern standards), I don't think the world needs any more of those...

The Greek Independence was not in 1822, alas almost a decade passed until a small part became an independent state. It took until 1947 for Greece to become the state that you see nowadays, and all of these land gains came after numerous wars against those who oppressed us for numerous centuries.

That said, Greece still has lands outside its nowadays borders.

 

[ΠΑΝΑΞ]

Ολυμπία/ Αλεξάνδρεια/Κωνσταντινούπολη

Instead of antiguity, the byzantine era offers us more "historical data", lucky the byzantinologists maybe you say but you have to know that is far the most complicated studies of history.
Generally the term "Byzantine" it is an exonym from a german scholar with a greek name (Ιερώνυμος)- Hieronymus Wolf 1516-1580, someone could say that they baptized after death, the byzantines i mean, which they prefer to call themselves as -Ρωμηοί, Ρωμιοί = Romans> Rumeli (the region of cent. Greece), some historians preferred the "East Roman Empire" which in some occasions is more reliable. ( i also want to remind to some of us that it is not named as Orthodox empire! The Roman rule was above all.) opa!..

-I realise for another time, being slightly off topic. (never mind, i would say about the collonists of city -Μέγαρα and -Βύζας, son of Poseidon and Κερόεσσα... )
But...

The thread is probably '' We need a strong coalition/federation/union in Balkans and(part of)l Anatolia; close ?
If yes, -i would say that i also agree with you for many reasons.
*I mind the fall of ''Polis'' as the start of the -East Question.
*The cold War seperate the Balkanians as western/eastern, allthough for centuries was the center of the world!
*I also think, that we (greeks) commoned a collectivist heritage with the rest of the balkanians birthplaced at byzantine ages.
*For somehow the balkans are deeply independent from the economic theories of the recently past century
I hope new political aspects for the region beyond left and right parties which tyrrant parliaments and opinions. (off topic or of topic?)
Dont know thats what you mean Eχετλαίε..?

(close)
The Thousand year Empire influent and inspire the Rennaisance later and still now our free modern world.
My personaly opinion is that the long lived empire is the big bang of Greek/Roman world.

For the interested about history of that time
a safe, as objective link and usefull as a first guide entrance(!) to the subject is Byzantine chronicles- Βυζαντινόν Χρονικόν.
http://www.byzantium.xronikon.com/homegr.html#
available also in English version. (γοογλ translator-no good. -yet.)

 

[Vedun]

And who will be the leader of the new Byzantium Sanhedrin then?

Byzantium was the New Jerusalem, this was the place, where the Oldest Torah (Leningrad Codex) was constructed (written) in 11th century AD, as the "oldest Book of all times" and reliable source of all historical sources.

Then you consequently ask yourself, why was Russia in a total war with Byzantium and why the allegedly "1." Slavic "invasion" appeared in 6th century "AD" against Rome and Constantinople...when Slavs were already in constant wars with Avars (Hebrews) in Khazar Khanate...
The answer is because they did not want to accept the new Christian cult, which was created in Byzantium and Rome...

 

[Yetos]

Everybody in the Balkans will join the EU in the next 10-20 years, so they will co-operate in a different level, under different dominating influences.

If EU exists in 10-20 years,
the latest elections show Europeans to be sceptic,
the South Europe's problem could be solved easily if treaty's like Lisbon Maastrich (however is written) etc etc exist.
just think taxation in borders to eupoe's south and you will understand,

EU is not as planed in 1950's

Norway and Swiss are km better.

I don't want to buy a FIAT that is taxated in Netherlands, Neither drink a Cola that is taxated in Swiss, neither buy a sampoo made in Africa but taxated in France etc etc

 

[Yetos]

You would be OK with being subjugated by an elite class where there is no middle class only rich and poor, that is essentially a monarchical rule? Do you think the ordinary citizen of the Byzantine Empire was living a life of freedom and prosperity? It's only good to be King, until your assassinated (by your brother or your father's second wife, lol).

no matter the thread,
do you believe that modern EU, especially the last 6 years wants middle class?

NO, they wanted to destroy middle class,

both capitalism and communism do not want middle class,

simply as in USA, same in EU, although build by people for people, they are under big multinational corporations, and especially under the banker's will,
tell us in USA what justice was given when Liehman (bro) and Goldman (Such) and did simple worker took their money as big shares or managers?
a banker's will is stronger than millions people demand and vote,

 

[Yetos]

we turks are native Anatolians. LONG LIVE ANCİENT ANATOLİANS!

Ancient Anatolians spoke either Aramaic, either IE either Pelasgian/Etruscan, surely not Turkish

 

[wlkwos]

Why revived?

 

[Boreas]

I guess, this topic and many comments classify as white fasicm; middle level fasicm with heavily romatic nationalism

 

[Rethel]

glorious

Are you serious?
If it would be glorious, would not
collapse in sach disgracefull way
with such long agony.

Byzantine Empire?

This such a thing never existed.

It was always Roman Empire.
In XIII century were even 5 Roman Empires, but still...

Wouldn't we be better off if we create a super-state, an empire once again?

You should speak about this with Greeks and Turkies

Of course, it would be nice reconquer Constantinopole,
and it should be done in 1920, but now it is only dream...

it is a republic of free people.

Nihilistan?

It would sound much better.

Do you think the ordinary citizen of the Byzantine Empire was living a life of freedom and prosperity?

In the Roman Empire on the east even slut could be an empress.
About prosperity: did you never hear about byzantian pomp-luxury?

YI think that the Byzantines were living much better than the rest of the Europeans that time.

In the early Middle Ages probably yes.
West was very poor. This is the reason,
why orthodox buildings and ritus are so
rich in gold, and latin churches and ritus
so modest - compare to the eastern.

No Turks following Islam shall be in the new revived Byzantine Empire.
When I talked about the revival I meant a unification in the European lands. Once this power is established well, then we can move in the next step.
The capital city will be the most prestigious city in the European lands, for the time being. That being said, it cannot be Constantinople (at least in the beginning).
The regime must be democratic, to follow nowadays wave, an emperor would not be bad idea though.

In the world exist only a few worse exaples (or rather antiexamples)
how to ceate glorious empire, than so called Byzantium. Getting this
decline verion of Roman Empire as a exemplar model is simply stupid.

to revive the old Gods

how about no religion at all. That would be fair to everyone and no more wars. Problem solved.

That's why total ban of religion, like in Soviet Union or China, never worked. After 80 years (3 generations) of programed atheism in Russia 75% of people still believe in god.

Soviets and China WERE a DEEPLY RELIGIOUS states.
Their religion was called COMMUNISM.
They belived in:
- communism and socialism
- atheism
- evolution
- natural selection
- superiority of socialistic economics
- internationalism
- a.s.o.

And you could be kill or prisoned if you didn't share this belives.

This should tell us something.

Maybe, that atheism is unnatural, and faith in some kind of deity is better from even evolutionary point of view?

Hitler and Stalin didn't kill because they were atheists, they killed because they were psychopaths.

You are so wrong, or you don't know anything about them?

1. If Stalin wouldn't became an atheist, he will be a priest and wouldnt kill anyone.

2. Stalin, as a bolsheviks before him, was killing, because belived, that he will not answer
before anyone - he belived that we are only animals (as atheists do) and it doesn't matter
how much people you kill - the most important thing is to survive and have power. When
you compare this with class conflict (which was based on atheism too) you have alleready
killing machine.

3. Hitler wasn't killing because he was psychopat, but because he shared your belives about
natural selection. Only the best can survive, so he thought, that Germans are superior to others
and must survive. The lower species must be exterminate, exactly as darvinism predicted and as
you are beliving. So, his deeds were very logical and based on atheism and natural selection.
You belive in that, so what do you want from him? He was as theory of evolution wanted him to be.

Actually, Hitler was a devout christian who claimed in his writings that he was "doing the Lord's work".

Americans (and as I see Canadians too) have a very interesting usefullness for Hitler.
They mostly know nothing about him, his belives and ideology, but they allways use
him, as a scarecrow, impute him sayings of somebody else, or twisting his words.

1. Hitler was a christian, as everybody else, when he was young and only then.
2. Hitler was using sometimes christian language in political purposes, because 99% of Germans were christians.
3. Hiler as a adoult men was an atheist, who belived deeply in evolution and natural selection.
4. He was rather a beliving germanic-pagan and spiritualists than a christian.
5. This saying which you quoted, if it is even true, wasn't about christian God, but some kind of providence or fate.
6. He was planning to wipe out christianity once and for all - the same claimed today neonazists groups.
7. He hated Jews, so how he can be beliving in jewish God and messiah.

Lincoln

Atheist?

Are you lost your mind?

And Jefferson was at least a deist, not an atheist.

You remember that the richest part of Europe through all Middle Ages were Islamic Al Andalus with biggest city in Europe Cordoba, till it was destroyed and million books burned by Christians?

You really are beliving in that myth? etrified:

Turks are no natives of Anatolia.

People living in Turkey mostly are anatolians natives.
Language and concept of that nation - aren't.

Can you argee with that formulation of matter?

Modern Greeks probably mostly arent the Greeks at all.
In VI-VIII centuries most of modern Greece land was slavic,
and greek language was useing only in costline, before that
period and even after that time there lived many different romanic
if not romanian people, during the Ottoman rules many Turks were
hellenized and probably settled there many jannissaries, and even in
XIX and XX century, the heart of Greece were (and is still) setteled by
Albanians - Attica, Beotia, Eubea and many parts of Peloponez. It is
like in Rome and in whole Latium, Toskany and Campania would live
exclusivly Berbers, and Italians would clame, that they are ancient
Romans - it would be an absurd... Or Palestinians in Jerusalem,
and Judea as native Israelites! Did Medinat Jisrael do that?

And who will be the leader of the new Byzantium Sanhedrin then? Byzantium was the New Jerusalem, this was the place, where the Oldest Torah (Leningrad Codex) was constructed (written) in 11th century AD, as the "oldest Book of all times" and reliable source of all historical sources. Then you consequently ask yourself, why was Russia in a total war with Byzantium and why the allegedly "1." Slavic "invasion" appeared in 6th century "AD" against Rome and Constantinople...when Slavs were already in constant wars with Avars (Hebrews) in Khazar Khanate... The answer is because they did not want to accept the new Christian cult, which was created in Byzantium and Rome...

What is this nonsens? etrified:

 

[Yetos]

In the Roman Empire on the east even slut could be an empress.
About prosperity: did you never hear about byzantian pomp-luxury?

I like some of your thoughts !!!! true indeed, and sence of humor
but you have to admit that was also the oposite sometimes in East Roman Empire,
'Borgias' were not only in West,
neither luxury was a priviledge of East.
Anyway Monks, Arc Bishops, and judges or rich existed in both East and West,

 

[Garrick]

However, I see no evidence that the Balkan states would agree to enter into some sort of political confederation with Greece.

Why not? It is very good idea. This idea in Serbia would have a lot of supporters.

 

[Rethel]

Why not? It is very good idea. This idea in Serbia would have a lot of supporters.

Probably, if it would be an "Empire of the Serbs... and maybe some Greeks too..."
As it was during the rein of Stephan Dushan and his son.

 

[Garrick]

Probably, if it would be an "Empire of the Serbs... and maybe some Greeks too..."
As it was during the rein of Stephan Dushan and his son.

It's not that. Serbs usually prefer holistic approach, while the emperor Dushan had partial approach. In other words, the whole territory where Byzantine civilization has flourished have priority over particular interests. So Serbs can support restored Byzantium because in this new superstate everyone will be better and it can be realized conditions for long-term development. Small poor states have no such chance.

 

[Sile]

Western European leaders in majority of historical decisions, have always blundered.

Byzantine should have been allowed to fall to the russians in the turko-russian wars and only when that happened should the British, france etc interfered and had their "Crimean wars against Russia "