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Thread: Free and independent Kurdistan is coming soon.

  1. #101
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    There're 50 million Kurds, and we will go nowhere. We're living on our ancestral homeland for thousands of years. We're the real survivors. And no matter what we will survive. After the great war, there will be a free prosperous independent Great Kurdistan, with Amed as capital!

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ua'Ronain View Post
    http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/10/09...treets-hamburg (Right Leaning American Media) Police in the northern German city of Hamburg say 14 people were injured overnight in clashes between Kurdish protesters and members of a hard-line Islamic movemen

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29530640 (BBC News UK Media) Article Snippet: 19 dead in Turkish Protests; Riot police used tear gas and water cannon in a number of towns and cities as the disturbances spread across the country, including Ankara and Istanbul. Curfews have now been imposed in several cities in south-eastern Turkey with large Kurdish populations. The unrest has spread to over 30 cities in Turkey.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-1...ir-str/5803544 (Left leaning American Media ABC News) Linked to fill out more information such as: The violence has prompted curfews to be imposed in five south-eastern provinces, restrictions unseen since the height of the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) war against Turkish forces in the 1990s.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/08/wo...ikes.html?_r=0 (left leaning American Media the New York Times) Turkish Inaction on ISIS Advance Dismays the U.S.

    http://www.voanews.com/content/voa-e...s/2480286.html (American media Voice of America) Turkish forces open fire on Syrian and Turkish Kurds. Snippet: The Syrian Kurdish protesters were joined in the open buffer zone by Kurds from Nusaybin on the Turkish side of the border. Kurds consider the two cities to be one with the border running down the middle of it.

    The two groups joined together in pulling down the wire fences that separated their cities. Turkish sources claim the Syrian Kurds opened fire on the Yurkish Soldiers first but media present said there were no signs of guns among the protesters.

    (that is right Turkey wont fire at ISIS but they will fire at Kurds attempting to get relief to kobani!)

    And finally the most telling piece from the article is this: Friday, the U.N. envoy to Syria, Staffan de Mistura, urged Turkey to let "volunteers" [Kurds] cross the border to reinforce Kurdish militias defending Kobani against Islamic State militants. He warned that 700 civilians who remain trapped in Kobani, plus about 12,000 gathered nearby, will most likely be "massacred" if the city falls to the Islamist.

    Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday he will not give into street protesters demanding his government do more to protect Kurds.
    Very interesting info, thanks.
    It's no secret Erdogan basically belongs to the Turkish Muslim brotherhood, and attempts to become a new Ottoman sultan, by drawing Turkey away from Europe and the west and back to the Islamic world. He also doesn't give a shit about democracy, running for president because he can't be PM anymore, and then changing the constitution so the president gets the power. He also seems more keen on fighting Assad than fighting Isis. Now, Assad is a murderer, but it now seems like in Syria, it's going to be either Assad or Isis.

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    http://www.dawn.com/news/1137387/pkk...against-ankara : "PKK threatens to resume fighting against Ankara" ; http://www.smh.com.au/world/kurdish-...12-114waq.html : "Kurdish leader threatens Turkish peace deal collapse"

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    Well, I can't talk freely here. The mod is censoring me. This is not funny anymore, I rest my case...

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Very interesting info, thanks.
    It's no secret Erdogan basically belongs to the Turkish Muslim brotherhood, and attempts to become a new Ottoman sultan, by drawing Turkey away from Europe and the west and back to the Islamic world. He also doesn't give a shit about democracy, running for president because he can't be PM anymore, and then changing the constitution so the president gets the power. He also seems more keen on fighting Assad than fighting Isis. Now, Assad is a murderer, but it now seems like in Syria, it's going to be either Assad or Isis.
    we called it Arab spring,
    we wellcome it,
    we were happy,

    but what happened at the end,
    we kill the murderer kantafi, but what happened to libya? tribal wars on and on,
    we replace Egyptian president, but what we show? the same,
    etc etc etc,

    was it an Arab spring?
    or it was a change of rulling murderes?


    the strange is that with kantafi and Assand and rest, Islam had not a multiethnic movable army
    after Arab spring, and democracy and elimination of 'murderers presidents' I still see no progress to 20th century and democratic rules,
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    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    the strange is that with kantafi and Assand and rest, Islam had not a multiethnic movable army
    after Arab spring, and democracy and elimination of 'murderers presidents' I still see no progress to 20th century and democratic rules,
    Give them more time. Creation of new states is always a messy business. Look at history of modern Europe. We could have destroyed the whole world!
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Give them more time. Creation of new states is always a messy business. Look at history of modern Europe. We could have destroyed the whole world!
    that is what I am afraid,

    time works for who?

    ok by time we might see progress,
    but with time we might see war in our towns,

    lets see, hope you are right,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    that is what I am afraid,

    time works for who?

    ok by time we might see progress,
    but with time we might see war in our towns,

    lets see, hope you are right,
    I see your point now.
    I'm a bit more optimistic. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    I think Kurds have not tried enough to get it. (I might be wrong, but this is my opinion),.

    Really? You are wrong in this particular case.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Well, I can't talk freely here. The mod is censoring me. This is not funny anymore, I rest my case...
    You were censored because I reported your unconstructive, dangerous and hateful speech about the destruction of nations, specific cities and peoples.

    You will find no one on these forums that is more pro-Kurd than myself that has also spent an unhealthy amount of time researching Kurdish issues and advocating for all of the Kurds no matter where they live.

    So do not dare go down the road as usual and claim everyone is out to get the Kurds when the only reason you were reported was because the words you chose have no place in this debate.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    we called it Arab spring,
    we wellcome it,
    we were happy,

    but what happened at the end,
    we kill the murderer kantafi, but what happened to libya? tribal wars on and on,
    we replace Egyptian president, but what we show? the same,
    etc etc etc,

    was it an Arab spring?
    or it was a change of rulling murderes?


    the strange is that with kantafi and Assand and rest, Islam had not a multiethnic movable army
    after Arab spring, and democracy and elimination of 'murderers presidents' I still see no progress to 20th century and democratic rules,
    The Arab Spring was hijacked in Egypt and Syria by Islamic movements.

    What started as a more liberal movement by students and the younger generations was exploited by radical elements who have no qualms about using intimidation, violence , bombs or twisting religious dogma to justify getting whatever it is that they want.

    The only way for democracy/republics to work without this sort of chaos is for the state to be strictly secular. Those who govern on a national level should not be divided into political parties that cater to just one tribe, sect, religion or race.

    If you want a stable country for the people then the foundation needs to be strong. They should be formed on a strong constitution that spells out protections for everyone with basic human rights; such as but not limited to free speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of expression, freedom of religion. The citizens should have iron clad protections that cannot be changed no matter who assume power. All the laws should apply to everyone equally.


    If your nation has a mosaic of cultures and religions it should be strength and not a weakness. Everyone must be afforded equal protection under the law bar none. No government can rule a multi-ethnic nation together if it only enriches one ethnic group, tribe or sect over the others. Iraq is a prime example when people separate themselves on the Sunni-Shia (religion) or Arab-Kurd (ethnicity) that it is a disaster waiting to happen.

    A democracy is only as strong as the citizens that empower them! Invest in things that benefit everyone such as education and industry while leaving big ticket divisive issues out of the government sphere.


    The military, militias and police forces should be a blend of everyone. No Shia or Sunni or Kurd militias because a proper central government will be protecting everyone equally.

    Even after all of this is accomplished they would still have to find a common national identity that they can all rally behind and use to strengthen the whatever it is that holds them together.

    I do not mean to make it sound easy but in my opinion all of those things are needed for democracy to work with some semblance of harmony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Key question is to whom Turkey supports.

    I think this is a fairly easy one to answer. Turkey supports Turkish interests!

    I think they have miscalculated though and are finding out that their current path is not a viable answer when it leaves you at odds with every regional power, 2 super powers and an emboldened Kurdish movement that is rapidly gaining fame, financing, weapons, credibility and sympathy from the west as well as the Russians.

    The current path of Turkey is one of isolation and civil insurrection at home as they want what they cannot have.

    They want Assad out and the Russians, Iranians and Shia lead Iraq all strongly oppose this. [And while I do think if Syria only had Iraq and Iran in its corner we would not hesitate to remove him. But as it stands now the Russians hold too many cards.. I KNOW if we Americans do not play nice with Syria that Putin would not hesitate to put the clamps down on Ukraine and shut off much of Europe’s natural gas supply (winter is coming) and let’s face it if it comes down to toppling Assad or saving a European nation the west will always side with European interests for the sake of stability at home.] this section of the reply I borrowed from another post I made

    They want to stomp on anything resembling the PPK or any autonomous Kurdish quasi-state on their border.

    But sadly they do not even see the forest for the trees! As they dither the rest of the world is watching the Kurds fight heroically against the odds when confronted with ISIS in Iraq and Syria.

    We watched as the Iraqi army routed as Isis marched to Mosul. We watched them push deeper into Anbar province the last few days as they assaulted Ramadi on three fronts and have inched closer to Baghdad as they moved in 10,000 fighters. The Iraqi army has American military equipment for individual soldiers such as night vision, body armor, rifles and other small arms as well as American anti-armor weapons. They also have American tanks, artillery, apache attack helicopters and Russian fighter jets that they purchased. On top of that they have Iranian revolutionary guard units mixed in with Shia Awaking Council Militias that are all backing the Iraqi national army. And with all of that Iraq is struggling to contain ISIS let alone drive them out of Iraq.



    In one corner we have ISIS reviled around the globe for brutality, rape, slavery, war brides, concubines, kidnapping, beheadings, amputations, public executions where they leave the body on display to terrorize the local population and intimidate anyone who dares to not submit to them. In 8 months of fighting in Iraq alone 24,000 civilians have been killed or injured. Of those 8500 were fatalities. Between June 1st and August 31st of this year the United Nations listed 11,159 civilian casualties in Iraq alone.

    In the other corner we have a myriad lose knit at the best of times Kurdish resistance that stretches from Syria to Iraq with fighters from Turkey as well. I am talking about the KRG in Iraq to the PYD/YPJ in Syria and the PKK in Turkey and PJAK in Iran. [There are others as well]

    What we see is images of Kurds in Iraq and Syria fighting against all odds with courage and bravery to defend their homelands because no one else will. It is one of the most inspiring moments I have witness in my life. We see them defending anyone that they can; not just Kurds or Sunnis but anyone. We see the struggle; we see the lack of proper equipment and we watch as they fight with aging cold war era weapons. This is the classic underdog story that many people love to root for, this is David vs Goliath and it is winning the war of hearts and minds across Europe and North America.

    Turkey is now caught between a rock and a hard place; they face isolation and a rebellion at home. And they have no idea how little clout they have in this situation. Washington and London have made it very clear that we will not deploy ground forces to fight ISIS. So now we end up needing the Kurds, we will rely on Kurdish Peshmerga to do a lot of the fighting for us. The Kurds have fought Saddam Hussein, they now fight ISIS which the majority of the world considers the most ruthless movement on the planet with no morality or respect for human rights.

    The standard guidelines of politics dictate that they should be rewarded for their sacrifices.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Very interesting info, thanks.
    It's no secret Erdogan basically belongs to the Turkish Muslim brotherhood, and attempts to become a new Ottoman sultan, by drawing Turkey away from Europe and the west and back to the Islamic world. He also doesn't give a shit about democracy, running for president because he can't be PM anymore, and then changing the constitution so the president gets the power. He also seems more keen on fighting Assad than fighting Isis. Now, Assad is a murderer, but it now seems like in Syria, it's going to be either Assad or Isis.
    I have done a lot of reading about the current ruling Turkish party and while they have similar ideology and are very sympathetic to the Muslim brotherhood they are not exactly the same. Yes they did/do support Morsi in Egypt and Hamas in Gaza but that does not make them a pan-Sunni party that rules Turkey, gaza, formerly Egypt and one of the fighting faction in Libya.

    I would argue that Turkey was never really in line with the west or Europe but used elements of our influence to create what we know today as Turkey. We agree that he is much more autocratic and cracks down on dissent readily with a heavy hand and has no respect for a free and open press/media/social media by his closing access to YouTube & twitter and trying to silence critics.

    But he would not dare to go all Islamic at the moment as there is still a strong nationalistic opposition in Turkey that would explode if he made such a move quickly. It would turn Turkey into a battle royal pitting the Islamic movement vs nationalists vs the Kurds. For now the ruling party and nationalists have a surging economy and everyone likes money and a common enemy in the Kurds to unite them.

    If they were to start fighting with each other Turkey would go to hell in a hand basket almost overnight.



    As for Syria I am banking on an Assad Pyrrhic victory via the coalition removing ISIS. It is one thing to bomb ISIS with tacit approval from the Syrian regime or a military expedition to prevent a humanitarian disaster and another entirely to create a buffer/no fly zone inside of Syrian borders or going further and trying to topple Assad with government forces of any kind. The Russians, Iranians and Shia dominated Iraq would oppose such a move.

    And while I do think if Syria only had Iraq and Iran in its corner we would not hesitate to remove him. (or allow the buffer zone with a no fly zone) But as it stands now the Russians hold too many cards.. I KNOW if we Americans do not play nice with Syria that Putin would not hesitate to put the clamps down on Ukraine and shut off much of Europe’s natural gas supply (winter is coming) and let’s face it if it comes down to toppling Assad or saving a European nation the west will always side with European interests for the sake of stability at home.

    Another way of looking at it would be this; Russia has incredible leverage it could bring to bear if it were to defend Russian interests in Syria while Turkey does not.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Ua'Ronain; 13-10-14 at 21:54. Reason: added image

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Turkey was the frontier of radical Islam after Kemal.

    today turkey is stronger in economy, in military, is the 2nd NATO/OTAN force,
    but must choose its allies,

    either back to kemalism and a κοσμιο cosmo, a soft islam, either a radical,

    you can not be in both NATO EU and radical Islam,

    besides the majority of IS are known Chechens warriors, an ethnic ID that Turkey supported in the past against ex USSR and Russia,
    so what is terrorism for Turkey (PKK and rest Kurds) is Friendly to Rest and especially Russia,
    What is Terrorism for rest and Russia (chechens) is Friendly to Turkey,

    no matter what, the amazing is the stance that Iran is keeping,
    I have not heard a sound about what is going on,
    I think they are either afraid the most, or they wait for the correct time, or they just stay pathetic,
    unpredicted their will and stance.

    It is not the business of USA to solve the case,

    IT IS A MATTER OF ALL OF US TO STOP TERROR, AND I AM WAITING MUCH MORE FROM EUROPE, IN THE MATTER OF ID CARDS, PASSPORTS, PERSONA NON GRADA etc.

    Turkey is arresting wounded Kurds as terrorists,
    and accept in her Hospital the wounded Jihands to get heal, in a Humanistic view and stance,

    do you want photos and videos?
    Last edited by Yetos; 15-10-14 at 00:42.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    no matter what, the amazing is the stance that Iran is keeping,
    I have not heard a sound about what is going on,
    I think they are either afraid the most, or they wait for the correct time, or they just stay pathetic,
    unpredicted their will and stance.
    http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Mid...#axzz3G4BaxVLl : "Khamenei blames U.S., 'wicked' Britain, for creating ISIS"

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    Btw, Iran is not afraid of anybody. Iran is closely monitoring the situation from a distance. ISIS can't touch such a strong independent country like Persia, with Russia as an ally, at all. Also, Iran is using Hezbollah (Shia, Iranian) against ISIS. Hezbollah is destroying ISIS in Assad region, and ISIS will never be able to defeat Hezbollah (Shia). Also, Israel is playing dirty double games to by supporting ISIS. All what is currently is happening in the Middle East is good for the interests of Israel. Israel is shifting its own problems to other regions, like into Kurdistan. Why? Kurdish population was never enemies of Israel. Also, like Turkye, Israel is playing with fire. Turkye is burning and will burn much more by the same fire. What about Israel? What if Kurds and Kurdistan will become enemies of Israel? After all, current events in Kurdistan are because of the Western World helped and is helping Turkye, ISIS and other Islamist groups. What will happen if ALL 50 million Kurds will work together with Iran, Hezbollah (also in Lebanon) and Russia, ha? Ever thought about that?
    Last edited by Goga; 14-10-14 at 02:54.

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    It's all about the survival. Kurds have their own interests. Kurds (children of the Medes) from Kurdistan (land of the Sun & Fire) will choose what is the best for them. We survived for thousands of years. We survived in much more difficult times. And of course, this time we will survive too. There're 50 million Kurds! No matter what, there will be a free independent Great Kurdistan. Personally I do believe that an alliance with Russia & Persia are the best for Kurdish interests. And that one day Kurdistan and Persia will make a pact and form some kind of an 'Iranian Union'. Persian and Kurds together will be very strong. It's obvious that the Turks & Sunni Arabs are the biggest enemies of the 'Iranic race'. I sincerely hope that Kurdish leaders will go through this path…
    Last edited by Goga; 14-10-14 at 11:37.

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    Friends, I have great news! With a great joy I want to state that the last great patriotic war of liberation of Northern Kurdistan just started! Turkish fighter jets bombed Northern Kurdistan! Kurds are peaceful folks. We wanted to liberate Northern Kurdistan through peaceful way. The so called peace process is finished, Turks can't play games any longer. They're desperate. Turks showed their face. Their dogs, ISIS, will be exterminated and by extermination I really mean that EVERY ISIS member will die very soon. Turks want to fight, so let fight!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Btw, Iran is not afraid of anybody. Iran is closely monitoring the situation from a distance. ISIS can't touch such a strong independent country like Persia, with Russia as an ally, at all. Also, Iran is using Hezbollah (Shia, Iranian) against ISIS. Hezbollah is destroying ISIS in Assad region, and ISIS will never be able to defeat Hezbollah (Shia). Also, Israel is playing dirty double games to by supporting ISIS. All what is currently is happening in the Middle East is good for the interests of Israel. Israel is shifting its own problems to other regions, like into Kurdistan. Why? Kurdish population was never enemies of Israel. Also, like Turkye, Israel is playing with fire. Turkye is burning and will burn much more by the same fire. What about Israel? What if Kurds and Kurdistan will become enemies of Israel? After all, current events in Kurdistan are because of the Western World helped and is helping Turkye, ISIS and other Islamist groups. What will happen if ALL 50 million Kurds will work together with Iran, Hezbollah (also in Lebanon) and Russia, ha? Ever thought about that?
    From what I know, most Israelis hate Erdogan, because he funds the Hamas and compares Israel to Nazi Germany. Many support the Kurds, in fact, from what I read, there's going to be a large protest on Friday in front of the Turkish embassy in Tel Aviv to allow supplies and ammunition to move into the surrounded city of Kobani. Many Israelis are sympathetic to the Kurdish cause, hell, many Israelis are of Kurdish origin (Kurdish Jewish anyway). Most Israelis despise Iran because Iran refuses to recognise Israel at all, and in many cases denied the Holocaust which pisses off most Israelis. It seems like Israel is starting to create closer relations to non western countries like India, Russia and China.

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    there was a congress today of coalitiona gainst Jihand,

    the members,

    Saudi Arabia
    United Arab Emirates
    Qatar
    Iraq
    Turkey !!!
    Jordania
    Egypt
    Bahrein
    Lebanon

    Australia
    Belgium
    Netherlands
    France
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    BRitain
    Italy
    Denmark
    Spain

    New Zealand
    Canada

    why when i read it I roll on floor laughing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Kurds are peaceful folks. We wanted to liberate Northern Kurdistan through peaceful way. The so called peace process is finished, Turks can't play games any longer. They're desperate.
    Almost forty thousand Turkish soldiers were killed by PKK over the last 20 years. Let me tell you how you wanted to liberate Northern Kurdistan in a peaceful way. Some rat founded a vile terrorist organization, which is PKK, of which bandits dredged up unborn babies from the wombs of their mothers with bayonets, tortured children until they no longer breathed, arranged countless raids to harbour patrols, sold heroin to teenagers and made them addicted so that they could buy new guns. That's how peaceful you are. No less savage than IS. Kurds are peaceful folks? Not if they support PKK. Now, you demand help from Turkey. Well, that makes you a little pathetic.

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    Turkey is a terrorist state and is using state terror on it’s neighbours. In the past Turks genocide many ethnicities, but this time they will not succeed. This time Turkey will be abolished before it can commit some horrible crimes again against innocent women and children. Btw, I’m sure that my freedom humanist organisation the PKK killed much more than 4000 Turkic terrorists. How many so called suicide were reported in Turkye, ha?

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    I thought that the Turks love rats, mad dogs and wolves, since they love Daesh rats, mad dogs. But I will promise you, that we Kurds will exterminate all those Islamic Turkish ISIS rats and mad dogs very soon in the near future. They're useless, failed and angry people, and useless people who commit crimes have no tight to live! Soon there will be no Daesh and Turks will be on their own. And they will have to face 50 million Kurds!

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    1 members found this post helpful.

    Turkish Support for ISIS and the reality of the Kurdish Question

    Because of just how big of a topic this is I am going to direct the bulk of my answers into a new thread that I will create. The sheer volume of information about this needs to be addressed in a uniform way with headings, links and all relevant information in one easy to find place.

    I will post all known links between Turkey, Syria, Iraq, PKK, YPD, KRG, Iran, FSA, the West and all other known actors in the multi axis conflict that is going on in the middle east. From ISIS to Al Qaeda and other terror listed groups and who supports whom.


    To Diocletian do not worry there is plenty of mud to sling when it comes to ISIS but you cannot ignore Turkey's role while blaming Washington for everything. I am also going to add that you do not have an objective view towards the Kurdish question. Your number of 40,000 dead soldiers is a misrepresentation of the truth. A quick Google search would prove this! You scream about PKK but not one time have I seen you try to understand what caused the PKK to be created int he first place. Widespread discrimination of the Kurdish people on a massive scale for the ENTIRE history of what we know as the Republic of Turkey. I will make sure to list each and every law, massacre and injustice done to the Kurds to lead to the creation of PKK for you in great detail in my new series of threads.

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    THE IMPORTANCE OF KOMBANE TOWN.

    what make Kombane a 'wanted' city for IS?

    Kombane is town at the borders near turkey, nothing important, nothing special,
    then why IS lost so much forces on taking it and is important to IS as much as to send even suiciders 'man bombs'

    by looking at the map we surely can realize its position,
    Kombane is a corridor,

    Iraq soon will be Bagdat and souroundings, and North ex-Iraq might be the 'free Kurdistan'
    but there is oil there, and that oil must find an exit,
    The Mussulle oil must be sold, but who will get the profit of 'protection'?

    in that case Kombane is an important city,

    there are oil pipe lines (corridors) that transfer oil to Arabian Gulf and Mediterennean,
    now if IS takes Kombane then 2 options exists.
    1. the pipe lines pass from Turkey, which means money for Turkey, stronger position and EXCLUSIVE OIL TRANSPORTER and seller, A MONOPOLION , since Russian, Azer, etc etc pipe lines pass through Turkey
    2. the pipe lines pass from Kombane but are in control of IS, that means money to Jihadists,

    now if Kombane stays under Kurds, that means a forced unification of Kurds, since North Kurdistan Mossulle and West Kurdistan will profit the oil, and Kombane will be the 'pipe line' the road of oil to mediterrennean sea.
    that makes Kombane a 'desirable' city, so desirable, that IS is interested more, than to take Bagdat, and Turkey to face a civil war, by healing' Jihadists and arresting her own wounded citizens.

    now I do not know if in case of Kombane, if IS is working for Turkey, or Turkey is working for IS, or both for their own, but from the numbers more than 3500 Jihadists dead for that town, we can realize the importance.

    the enclosure of kombane started with 4 000 jihadists and now are more than 12 000 Jihadists there,

    the passport show much Chechenian origin of Jihadists there, and some turkish passport citizenship but from another nativity, origin.

    It seems now that is not Ukraine for Syrria, but more,

    personally at the begin I believed that the chess game among Obama and Putin was Syrria (Assand) and Ukraine. but seems Turkey is also in that chess game,


    PS
    to expand more think the Λαττακεια Latakia harbor (exit of the previous corridor) to unite with Israeli/Cyprus oil deposits and pipe lines,

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