Free and independent Kurdistan is coming soon.

Kurdish problem is bigger, as Greek I happened to know quite a few about them, and if I am wrong I call upon the kurds of the forum to falsify me, Kurds are generally under 3 major sub nationalistic divisions and under many leaders (patriarchs if you like) that before 100 years could fight each other, they never tried to unite and succed a unification, and if they fail now, they start war among each other, as happens always, the only combined actions of sub tribes are shown today, Kurds had many opportunities to become indipendent from the times of British Empire and revolt of Arabs and liberation of Damaskos, till the 1920's the Greek-Turkey wars, but they decide to ally with Turks, so Today they face either a Turkization, or Arabization, either a genocide or a destruction Those who know History, know about the Armenians and Greeks and Neo-Turks IT IS VERY HARD AND DIFFICULT TO ESCAPE FROM OTTOMANS, and Neo-Turks are much much smarter than Ottoman sultans, besides Turkey has excellent diplomacy, and excellent army,

Turks in the late 19th and first quarter of 20th century (there we think about Ottomans in last phase and after them Turkish nationalists) did more genocides and massacres, where victims were Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians, all non-Muslim nations (and of course Turkish president Erdogan again talks about Neo-Ottoman Balkans and his Balkan allies).

But after twenties only numerous minority who remained in Turkey were Kurds, and they came on line.

Questions are: how many massacres and crimes were against Kurds from thirties to now, how many Kurdish villages and resorts are destroyed, how many them Kurds had to escape, what all kinds of repressions against Kurds leaded by Turkish regime, what human rights Kurds have in Turkey now etc., it would be good that Kurds are talking about it, evidence in Internet is awful and very serious for Turkish regime.
 
banning a language and culture of a group of people is racism in its extreme form .....you know this and everyone knows this. But since the concept of nationlism in the 18th century we see every nation percentage of lies have increased ten fold.

the term , "because they are muslim then they are part of the Turkish nation" is 100% wrong....what does religion have to do with ethnicity and nationalism?

It is wrong, but not because it doesn't have its own sense of logic. What we refer to as "nation" was called "millet" in the Ottoman period. Millet was differentiated according to the religion. So, if you were Albanian, Bosniak, Kurd, Turk, Circassian etc. you were muslim and therefore part of the extended Turkish identity. That's probably why "Turkish" is regarded equal to "muslim" in Europe. This type of understanding didn't change when the republic was established.

No way are the Turkish casualities even comparable to those of Kurds. Not even the slightest. All this conflict took place in the pred. Kurdish East not in Central nor Western Turkey. It was 3000 Kurdish villages destroyed and not a single Turkish one. I am not denying that there are Turkish casualities but you have to see it in an objective way. Those casualties are not the result of Kurdish "aggressions" towards peacefull Turkish public. It was a reaction to the century long oppression.

Yes, thousands of Kurdish villages were destroyed by Turkish forces, I'm not denying this. Do you confirm that PKK kidnapped school teachers and burned schools down and rejected any financial betterment initiative to the area, threatened Kurdish families who tried to keep away from the conflict in order to recruit more terrorists from among the young to the training camps?

If it were only Kurdish rebels. Most of the massacred people were simple civilians. Massacred to give the Kurds the message of "keep silent or die".

True. But I need to correct that "keep silent or die" part. "Keep silent" means "don't keep sending more terrorists to the camps". If they were to listen this advice, then PKK comes and says "you didn't send us more terrorists, die!!!!". That's how you add to the total number of "only civilian" Kurdish casualties. :giggle:

Kurds were regarded as part of Turkish 'wider' nation, or as the valuable/precious ally from the battle of Manjikert almost a millenium before,
always indipentended and always under Ottomans or Neo Turks
the last alliance of Kurds and Turks was in1920's with Kemal and Topal Osman in Trapezous and Kerasous areas, (Trabzon Giresun)

if you are really a Turk then you know the 2 biggest allies of Turks in History were Kurds and Azeris,
and after 1500 Albanias (Arnauts) in Balkans, the ones who did not paid blood taxation

the Kurdish awakening in Turkey started around 1960's and grow after 1970-80s

Kurds have had been a good ally to Turks also during the Armenian Genocide. Most of the "dirty job" was executed by them.
 
It is wrong, but not because it doesn't have its own sense of logic. What we refer to as "nation" was called "millet" in the Ottoman period. Millet was differentiated according to the religion. So, if you were Albanian, Bosniak, Kurd, Turk, Circassian etc. you were muslim and therefore part of the extended Turkish identity. That's probably why "Turkish" is regarded equal to "muslim" in Europe. This type of understanding didn't change when the republic was established.

almost correct,
Muslim were identified as Turks in census that Ottomans did before 1900






Kurds have had been a good ally to Turks also during the Armenian Genocide. Most of the "dirty job" was executed by them.


I know, I know the story of Topal Osman, his army were Kurds, at 1922-23

they could have their own state that time,
it would a Bigger Greece, a indipendent Kurdistan, a Bigger Armenia (the 2 kings, the proposal of Pontic and armenian state), and a indipendent Laz state, and a pure core Neo Turk state from Adrianoypolis and Prussa to Myrsina and Kastamone
but they decided to follow the Muslim relation than their indipendence.

anyway, things are tough today for the 2 'allies'.

I hope a good solution for both, with less damage possible.


btw
do you believe that if Kurdistan make indipendent state, then Turkey might be a trully Alobites Allevi islamic state, closer to kemalic believes? or will turn again to deep islamic roots?
 
btw
do you believe that if Kurdistan make indipendent state, then Turkey might be a trully Alobites Allevi islamic state, closer to kemalic believes? or will turn again to deep islamic roots?

Kemalists comprise of Alevis, which are de facto secularists, and secular nationalist Sunnis. Quite a big part of the Islamists comprise of religious Sunni Kurds. If Kurdistan establishes its independence and takes land from Turkey, there would be an immediate population exchange like we did in 1923, but this time on the ethnic basis rather than the religious. That would weaken the Islamist side in Turkey, making the country more secular, progressive and pro-European.
 
Kemalists comprise of Alevis, which are de facto secularists, and secular nationalist Sunnis. Quite a big part of the Islamists comprise of religious Sunni Kurds.
This is what I'm afraid about Kurds. Vast section of their society is susceptible to ISIS and fundamentalists ideology. However so far they prove not to be the case.
 
This is what I'm afraid about Kurds. Vast section of their society is susceptible to ISIS and fundamentalists ideology. However so far they prove not to be the case.
As long genocidal maniac criminals like Islamist Barzani are at power in South Kurdistan, there will be NEVER Kurdistan. I’m sure the responsible will be caught and brought to justice! According to me the main responsible of the Yezidi attempted genocide are Islamist Erdogan and Barzani! They should be brought to the Hague tribunal. Barzani is still trying to genocide the Yezidis and sending his Daesh mad dogs to Shingal to intimidate and genocide the Yezidis. There is more chance for the free Ezdixan than free Kurdistan. The Yezidis are the original Kurds, Kurds in South Kurdistan are Muslim and do look like their Muslim Arab neighbours.
 
The REAL Kurds are the Yezidis and the PKK (Alevi Kurmanji, Yezidi, Alevi Zazaki, Rojava (Syrian) Kurds, secular Kurds etc.). Both groups fight against Islam and for Kurdistan. Arabized or Turkified Muslims. They lost their touch with Kurdistan, Kurdish identity, Kurdish history and Kurdish culture. The PKK is the best nationalistic/patrioric non-CORRUPT PAN-Kurdistan group to lead Kurdish race toward total independence.
 
Arabized Islamic Fundamentalist Sunni Muslim ‘Kurds’ in Southern Kurdistan are trying to genocide the true original Kurds, the Yezidis. Before Islam, all ethnic Kurds were like the Yezidi. The world must take action and bring the responsible into justice! Barzani must be brought to the Hague Tribunal!
 
I hope so... Kurds definitelly deserve to have their own country. Just look at their effords, they produce their own tanks & fight against those neanderthals called Isis (a typical derivative of another dangerous militarian Osirian (Osiris) / Asura आसुर Abrahamic (against Brahmanic अ ब्राह्म ) Islamic offspring/derivative...

http://rt.com/news/191312-syria-kurds-home-made-armor/

2.si.jpg




Whole families among Kurds, Yazides who were tortured, barbarically slaughtered by the Isis/Osiris members...
yazidi-1.jpg


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/10/uk-iraq-security-yazidis-killings-idUKKBN0GA0FJ20140810

Kurdish women fighters(kshatria; this is their genetic memory) who are a nightmare, fear and trembling to the Isis (Osiris) neanderthals, degeneratives...

kurdwomen-360x217.jpg


hqdefault.jpg



The-first-Sirian-battalion-formed-of-Kurdish-women-7.jpg


enhanced-buzz-wide-5273-1385993820-25.jpg


Yazidic people(who preserved the original Mesopotamic antique pre Islamic/pre Abrahamic faith...

pfaui.jpg


coatKurdistan.jpg


Kurds, as descendants of the Kuru tribes, kshatrias, from the Kurukshetra war...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_Kingdom#mediaviewer/File:ചിതിയുടെയും-ഉപകരണങ്ങളുടെയും_മാതൃക.jpg

melek-taus.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnicayana
 
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I hope so... Kurds definitelly deserve to have their own country. Just look at their effords, they produce their own tanks & fight against those neanderthals called Isis (a typical derivative of another dangerous militarian Osirian (Osiris) / Asura आसुर Abrahamic (against Brahmanic अ ब्राह्म ) Islamic offspring/derivative...

http://rt.com/news/191312-syria-kurds-home-made-armor/

2.si.jpg




Whole families among Kurds, Yazides who were tortured, barbarically slaughtered by the Isis/Osiris members...
yazidi-1.jpg


http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/10/uk-iraq-security-yazidis-killings-idUKKBN0GA0FJ20140810

Kurdish women fighters(kshatria; this is their genetic memory) who are a nightmare, fear and trembling to the Isis (Osiris) neanderthals, degeneratives...

kurdwomen-360x217.jpg


hqdefault.jpg



The-first-Sirian-battalion-formed-of-Kurdish-women-7.jpg


enhanced-buzz-wide-5273-1385993820-25.jpg


Yazidic people(who preserved the original Mesopotamic antique pre Islamic/pre Abrahamic(pagan, primitive, non original)) faith...

pfaui.jpg


coatKurdistan.jpg


Kurds, as descendants of the Kuru tribes, kshatrias, from the Kurukshetra war...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_Kingdom#mediaviewer/File:ചിതിയുടെയും-ഉപകരണങ്ങളുടെയും_മാതൃക.jpg

melek-taus.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnicayana
Kurdish women nightmare for ISIS?
I may be wrong but personally I think they are an inspiration for Isis!
Imagine if they catch one alive!
ISIS is made of brainless people that that fight for the color of genital hair and seen a women in the front line to them is a trophy not a nightmare.
I don't know if this is a Kurdish propaganda with women but if it is then its naive. Women's place is not the front line. Most of the women that go to frontline either have their men or are looking for one there.
The bulldoze painted in fatigue is another naivety keeping in mind the speed of bulldozer.
I also sympathize with their plight for independence but exaggeration like this women decrease my sympathy.
I appreciate your different and enthusiastic point of view though.
 
Kurdish women nightmare for ISIS?
I may be wrong but personally I think they are an inspiration for Isis!
Imagine if they catch one alive!
ISIS is made of brainless people that that fight for the color of genital hair and seen a women in the front line to them is a trophy not a nightmare.
I don't know if this is a Kurdish propaganda with women but if it is then its naive. Women's place is not the front line. Most of the women that go to frontline either have their men or are looking for one there.
You already showed us your hyper nationalistic side, and now we learn about your chauvinism. "Women should know their place."
Didn't occur to you that women joining combat troops is a sign of Kurds being more egalitarian and their women free to choose their destiny? Same as finding women in Western arm forces. Something incompressible for ISIS, Taliban and obviously you.
 
You already showed us your hyper nationalistic side, and now we learn about your chauvinism. "Women should know their place."
Didn't occur to you that women joining combat troops is a sign of Kurds being more egalitarian and their women free to choose their destiny? Same as finding women in Western arm forces. Something incompressible for ISIS, Taliban and obviously you.

In the society where I come from women are held in higher standard.
They are considered the symbol of beauty, intelligence and humanism. Many times they have exerted a lot of influence on the society.They are expected to bring to life the next generation after the present one. War causes a lot of traumatic brain diseases. How will they raise their newborn? Did you know that a female is a lot worth compared to a male? A female can bring to life 5 babies, but a male can 100 000. So a women must be protected to keep the humanity going.
I like to remind you a story: I think Bernard Show said ones that when Don Quixote learned how to read he become a gentleman. But when he started to believe what he was reading he became a laughing stock. Do you really believe the press when they claim that Kurdish female fighters are a nightmare for ISIS fighters?
ISIS fighters are a organisation where about 5 people have the ability to think. The rest are brainless criminals. They have no ideology or believes or education. They are simply crazy. They get exited by the smell of blood and the noise of battlefield, many intoxicated. Simply people left behind by the evolution. So if you think hey get angry when they see a female fighter then Either you or me has to be the Don Quixote.
The Kurds want to show civility by sending their women to the infantry?
 
The Kurds want to show civility by sending their women to the infantry?
Female warriors are part of Kurdish culture. Ancient Medes (ancestors of the Kurds) had female warriors / military commanders too, like all other ancient Iranic tribes. You should show some respect to other peoples culture.
 
In the society where I come from women are held in higher standard.
They are considered the symbol of beauty, intelligence and humanism. Many times they have exerted a lot of influence on the society.They are expected to bring to life the next generation after the present one. War causes a lot of traumatic brain diseases. How will they raise their newborn? Did you know that a female is a lot worth compared to a male? A female can bring to life 5 babies, but a male can 100 000. So a women must be protected to keep the humanity going.
Exactly you described one of pillars of chauvinism. Women are so precious that they need to be protected, locked and decided for. I understand your appreciation for women, but why don't ask women of what they want and let them make their own choices? Ask them if they want your "higher standard" of protection?

I like to remind you a story: I think Bernard Show said ones that when Don Quixote learned how to read he become a gentleman. But when he started to believe what he was reading he became a laughing stock. Do you really believe the press when they claim that Kurdish female fighters are a nightmare for ISIS fighters?
I don't care how one journalist see this case. I say, if women want to fight it is their own decision to make.

ISIS fighters are a organisation where about 5 people have the ability to think. The rest are brainless criminals.
I didn't know you know them personally, so well.

They have no ideology or believes or education. They are simply crazy.
What? They are islamist and believe that Islam will conquer the world. The last time I checked it constitutes ideology and beliefs, and it takes education to learn this ideology. Many of them are educated people from the West and believe in Islamist ideology.

They get exited by the smell of blood and the noise of battlefield, many intoxicated.
Exactly predisposition of most young men, either christian or muslim.

Simply people left behind by the evolution.
Do you think Islamism is genetic?

The Kurds want to show civility by sending their women to the infantry?
Again your chauvinism comes to the surface. You think they were send to infantry, but the truth is that they volunteered to infantry. Do you really think you have more civility because you would protect women against their will? I have a feeling that you would the best in Saudi Arabia, where men and state protects women to the max.
 
Exactly you described one of pillars of chauvinism. Women are so precious that they need to be protected, locked and decided for. I understand your appreciation for women, but why don't ask women of what they want and let them make their own choices? Ask them if they want your "higher standard" of protection?


I don't care how one journalist see this case. I say, if women want to fight it is their own decision to make.

I didn't know you know them personally, so well.

What? They are islamist and believe that Islam will conquer the world. The last time I checked it constitutes ideology and beliefs, and it takes education to learn this ideology. Many of them are educated people from the West and believe in Islamist ideology.

Exactly predisposition of most young men, either christian or muslim.

Do you think Islamism is genetic?

Again your chauvinism comes to the surface. You think they were send to infantry, but the truth is that they volunteered to infantry. Do you really think you have more civility because you would protect women against their will? I have a feeling that you would the best in Saudi Arabia, where men and state protects women to the max.

I don't question women's intelligence!
But I question their physical ability? War is a physical contest as well. Obviously I am left behind the physiology of modern times but I prefer my women not fight. I prefer the women keep doing the mission that god has given to them, their beauties and their softener and politeness. The women fighters for me are disguised me.
 
In the society where I come from women are held in higher standard.
They are considered the symbol of beauty, intelligence and humanism. Many times they have exerted a lot of influence on the society.They are expected to bring to life the next generation after the present one. War causes a lot of traumatic brain diseases. How will they raise their newborn? Did you know that a female is a lot worth compared to a male? A female can bring to life 5 babies, but a male can 100 000. So a women must be protected to keep the humanity going.
I like to remind you a story: I think Bernard Show said ones that when Don Quixote learned how to read he become a gentleman. But when he started to believe what he was reading he became a laughing stock. Do you really believe the press when they claim that Kurdish female fighters are a nightmare for ISIS fighters?

Is that the old Islamic fear if women warriors eliminate men they losses 72 virgins, tell us about it if is true or no, one newspaper headline:

ISIS Militants Fear Being Killed by Woman and Losing 72 Virgins for Martyrdom; Kurdish Co-Commander Defending Kobane Is Female

http://http://www.christianpost.com...-commander-defending-kobane-is-female-128058/
 
Is that the old Islamic fear if women warriors eliminate men they losses 72 virgins, tell us about it if is true or no, one newspaper headline:

ISIS Militants Fear Being Killed by Woman and Losing 72 Virgins for Martyrdom; Kurdish Co-Commander Defending Kobane Is Female

http://http://www.christianpost.com...-commander-defending-kobane-is-female-128058/

I feel I have said enough. This is a Kurdish independence thread and I will leave it here.
Thanks God for the american bombs that are shaking the ground!
 
Albanopolos:In the society where I come from women are held in higher standard.
They are considered the symbol of beauty, intelligence and humanism. Many times they have exerted a lot of influence on the society.They are expected to bring to life the next generation after the present one. War causes a lot of traumatic brain diseases. How will they raise their newborn? Did you know that a female is a lot worth compared to a male? A female can bring to life 5 babies, but a male can 100 000. So a women must be protected to keep the humanity going.

I don't question women's intelligence!
But I question their physical ability? War is a physical contest as well. Obviously I am left behind the physiology of modern times but I prefer my women not fight. I prefer the women keep doing the mission that god has given to them, their beauties and their softener and politeness.

Imagine if they catch one alive!

Some of this sounds very lovely, but the realities of life and war make a mockery of much of it. Where is the society that doesn't have some level of sexual assault against women, or violence, both in the family and outside of it? Do you know the rates of sexual abuse and rape? Sometimes it's by a stranger, sometimes by an acquaintance or friend. Have you ever heard the term date rape? Even sadder, it can happen within the family. Are you aware of how many women are the victims of violence by the men in their lives (many times in the context of alcohol abuse), violence which sometimes leads to murder? A whole branch of the law is devoted to it. This is very real.

Are all men, or most men, or even a big percentage of men to be indicted in this way? Of course not, but these things happen, and girls and women have to be encouraged not to passively accept abuse, but to report the incidents and to defend themselves when they can. Sometimes, a woman can be in jeopardy from the men in her own society, in even more horrible situations, from the men in her own family, and a kind, strong, man might not be around to fight her battles for her. Better to know karate, or, if you are going to be in special jeopardy, how to handle firearms, to be able to protect yourself if needs must.

Which brings me to war, civil war as well as war against aggressors. You're from the Balkans if I remember correctly. Italy saw a lot of refugees from the Balkan Wars. How good a job did men do in terms of protecting their women during the recent fratricidal wars there? Please believe me that I mean no disrespect to the decent men who did their best to protect their families. I'm not saying they didn't try, but just maybe if women had had some part in defending their own communities, a few outcomes might have been different; some men might have been spared slaughter, some women might have been spared mass rape over extended periods. Those women would have been a lot better off, in my opinion, if they had access to weapons and knew how to use them.

I know another situation a lot better. A good number of the partisans in my area who harried the German forces in order to provide support for the allies were women. The partisans as a whole were not a huge percentage of the population. How many people of either sex have that kind of courage? The women partisans made a big difference. Some of them did actual fighting, where others gathered intelligence, carried messages, transported weapons, actions for which they were often better suited than the men particularly because they weren't suspected as much. We have video archives where these women recount how, as young girls, most of them, they hid guns in the bike baskets under laundry, or went into the mountains to bring intelligence and food. Some died, yes, after rape and torture. Of those who survived, some became politicians, important in the post war reconstruction of Italian society. I'm not a Communist, but I have tremendous respect for a woman like Nilde Lotti:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilde_Iotti

As for the various Kurdish political groups, I am not qualified to comment on what is accepted in their society, or how much of this is for propaganda purposes. I will tell you, however, that if I were a woman in the Middle East, knowing what these ISIS monsters do to people, including women and children, I would beg, borrow or steal to get my hands on the most deadly weapons available, and I'd learn how to use them. If nothing else, as a mother, I would owe it to my children.
 
As of today the US State Department confirmed that this weekend they have had direct talks with the PYD the main Syrian Kurdish political alliance... you may have heard of the YPG-YPJ fighters in Kobane in the news. The Turks HATE the PYD because they think of them as the Syrian version of PKK.

Today, Kurds in Kobane are on parapet of defense of free world.

If Kobane falls into the hands of jihadists the path toward South Europe can be open, what Kurdish representative says:

Kurdish official: ISIS must stop, otherwise go up in Bulgaria and Romania


http://news.newsdirectory1.com/kurd...stop-otherwise-go-up-in-bulgaria-and-romania/

"In this context, Gharib Hassou representative Syrian faction Democratic Union (PYD) in Iraqi Kurdistan said, according to an interview broadcast by French website Mediapart that “currently, we (Kurdish fighters border with Turkey – No) are the only outpost that prevents formation Islamic State. If we fall we could see a domino-effect. For that, one day, may fall across Syria, Turkey, can reach up to the borders of Europe, in Romania and Bulgaria. ” Hassou’s statement reminds me of the fact that a leader of ISIS warned in July that Spain is “legitimate territory”, featuring a map of the “caliphate” that includes Romania, Bulgaria and Greece."

Of course, Serbia, Hungary, some west Balkan countries etc. are also in risk, especially since there are forces in the Balkans which can be ISIS allies.

Kurds need full the support, but there is an impression that Europe did not understand enough seriousness of situation.

One article before three years:

http://www.meforum.org/3059/europe-islamists
 

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