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View Poll Results: Islam destroyed Anatolia?

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Thread: Has Islam "destroyed" Anatolia?

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Has Islam "destroyed" Anatolia?



    An ancient land of many cultures, indigenous and Indo-European. Much of important history and culture got lost?

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I guess we could say the same for every other Abrahamic religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FBS View Post
    I guess we could say the same for every other Abrahamic religion.
    Maybe, but the Turks also forced their mongolian language upon the IE speakers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie View Post
    Maybe, but the Turks also forced their mongolian language upon the IE speakers.
    1. Turkish isn't Mongolian, it's Turkic, there's a difference.
    2. I'm pretty sure modern Turks are descendants of the Anatolians rather than Turkic invaders genetically speaking, this is also the case for Hungarians, who seem to be descendants of native peoples of pre Magyar Hungary.

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    I suppose much remains to be discovered about ancient Anatolia, it has a very rich history.

    I don't know much about the recent history : Byzantium was taken by Turkic people who were converted to Islam.
    But after that, influence of Turkic culture seems to have been restricted?
    What was the influence of Islam?

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    IE changed it, Christians changed it, Turks changed it, Muslims changed it. Change is very normal for any country.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    1. Turkish isn't Mongolian, it's Turkic, there's a difference. 2. I'm pretty sure modern Turks are descendants of the Anatolians rather than Turkic invaders genetically speaking, this is also the case for Hungarians, who seem to be descendants of native peoples of pre Magyar Hungary.
    ad 1: Turkish ist much closely related to Mongolian ad 2: I agree 100%

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnie View Post
    An ancient land of many cultures, indigenous and Indo-European. Much of important history and culture got lost?
    the Turks destroyed Anatolia, not the Islam!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dodona View Post
    the Turks destroyed Anatolia, not the Islam!
    I think it is a combination. The Islam probably destroyed many non-muslim religious sites, churches, monasteries etc.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by dodona View Post
    ad 1: Turkish ist much closely related to Mongolian ad 2: I agree 100%
    Turkish belongs to the Turkic family which belongs to the greater Altic languages that include languages such as Japanese, Korean etc. Mongolian belongs to the Mongolic tree, and the greater Altic family. In other words, Turkish is no more related to Mongolian than it is to Japanese, or English is to Greek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dodona View Post
    ad 1: Turkish ist much closely related to Mongolian ad 2: I agree 100%
    Turkish just like Mongolian belong to the Altaic language family. But the Iranic component is heavy in Turkic tongues. It is so heavy that a Turkic group couldn't exist without the Iranic contribution. I go that far and claim Turkic is 50% like Mongolic and 50% like Iranic.

    2. I agree on the basis of this argument but notable contrary to Turks who do have a significant East Eurasian admixture. Hungarians are 99% West Eurasian. Averg Turk is 93% West Eurasian and 7% East Eurasian. But the "Turkic" contribution was most definitely higher than 7%. When the Turkic tribes came to Iran they must have been already 50% West Eurasian. And when they reached Anatolia they must have been already predominantly West Eurasian. So the Turkic component can be estimated at 15-30%

    Ottoman Islam didn't change Anatolia much more than Byzantine Christianity. And as I said previously the Eastern portion of Turkey is not part of the traditional Anatolia.
    AnatolieLimits.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Turkish just like Mongolian belong to the Altaic language family. But the Iranic component is heavy in Turkic tongues. It is so heavy that a Turkic group couldn't exist without the Iranic contribution. I go that far and claim Turkic is 50% like Mongolic and 50% like Iranic.

    2. I agree on the basis of this argument but notable contrary to Turks who do have a significant East Eurasian admixture. Hungarians are 99% West Eurasian. Averg Turk is 93% West Eurasian and 7% East Eurasian. But the "Turkic" contribution was most definitely higher than 7%. When the Turkic tribes came to Iran they must have been already 50% West Eurasian. And when they reached Anatolia they must have been already predominantly West Eurasian. So the Turkic component can be estimated at 15-30%
    That's what I said, Mongolic and Turkic families belong to the Altaic family tree. I didn't know the Iranic influence was so large. Yeah, obviously there's still some east Eurasian influence in modern Turks, much more than what modern Hungarians have, thanks for the extra info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    I didn't know the Iranic influence was so large. Yeah, obviously there's still some east Eurasian influence in modern Turks, much more than what modern Hungarians have, thanks for the extra info.
    In Altais and Central Asia it is already so heavy that basic grammer in Turkic tongues show signs of Iranism. Anatolian Turkish shows that much of additional Iranic influence that it is impossible to form two straight sentence without using Iranic words. And I guarantee you that. Anyone who disagrees can try it and I will prove him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    In Altais and Central Asia it is already so heavy that basic grammer in Turkic tongues show signs of Iranism. Anatolian Turkish shows that much of additional Iranic influence that it is impossible to form two straight sentence without using Iranic words. And I guarantee you that.
    Thanks for the info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    In Altais and Central Asia it is already so heavy that basic grammer in Turkic tongues show signs of Iranism. Anatolian Turkish shows that much of additional Iranic influence that it is impossible to form two straight sentence without using Iranic words. And I guarantee you that. Anyone who disagrees can try it and I will prove him.
    Turkic are haplo N1a and N1b , Mongols are haplo C3 , of course both mixed later
    After the Sintashta culture, Indo-Iranic R1a tribes conquered the steppe from the Dniestr till the Altai mountains, and split into Indic and Iranic
    Some Iranic tribes stayed on the steppe, the Scyths and Sarmats.
    They were driven out of the steppe by the Turks. Later the Turks arrived in Turkey as well, with some Iranic loanwords.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    Turkic are haplo N1a and N1b , Mongols are haplo C3 , of course both mixed later
    As far as I know N is more typical for Uralic speakers. While Turkic speakers are predominantly Q1a, C* and R*(the Iranic impact). Only exception are Yakuts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    As far as I know N is more typical for Uralic speakers. While Turkic speakers are predominantly Q1a, C* and R*(the Iranic impact). Only exception are Yakuts.
    This. Most of the mongoloid dna among original Turkic speakers was on the female side of course.

    Modern day Central Asians like the Kazakhs are Turkic/Mongolian hybrids. Turkmens are less Turkic and more Iranic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc View Post

    Modern day Central Asians like the Kazakhs are Turkic/Mongolian hybrids.
    There were more Slavic Kozaks in Western Ukraine than you can imagine, I guess. They are pretty much all "civilized" into Western life style these days.

    The Kazakhs tradition of "the steppe horse warrior" go much further in the past, to IE Scythians, the Saka nations of the steppe. These traditions had spread to other ethnicities like Mongols and Turks, who came to dominate steppe after Scythian dominance collapsed and big migrations started, from East to West.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    As far as I know N is more typical for Uralic speakers. While Turkic speakers are predominantly Q1a, C* and R*(the Iranic impact). Only exception are Yakuts.
    the Uralic were N1c , not N1b/N1a
    N1c branched off from N1 much earlier, some 13000 years ago, and 9000 years ago, they were allready at the Ural Mountains, they were the ones that brought the first pottery from China to Europe
    Yakuts returned east on horseback, much later and switched from Uralic to Turkic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    As far as I know N is more typical for Uralic speakers. While Turkic speakers are predominantly Q1a, C* and R*(the Iranic impact). Only exception are Yakuts.
    R* didn't survive the ice ages , shouldn't this be R1a?
    same for C* , C3 ?

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    R* retreated to the Middleast during the Ice Age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    R* didn't survive the ice ages , shouldn't this be R1a?
    same for C* , C3 ?
    When I wrote R* I simply tried to include R1a, R2 and R1b instead of mentioning them singly.

    As for the Yakuts coming from Urals. Well this explains why they are an exception among Turkic speakers and are predominantly N1.

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