Serb with I1

[I1a3_Young]

There is no proof that I1-Z63 is Germanic much less Gothic,i will repeat again,this clade is almost absent where Goths are thought to originate Scandinavia.
It is common in other regions of Europe.

Other clades of I1 are another story for which we can speak of Germanic origin.

I-Z63 formed 4600 ybp, TMRCA 4000 ybp info

How about you post the theories or data from which you make your conclusions.

 

[despot]

Germanic Movements

View attachment 9622

View attachment 9623

Kingdoms established

View attachment 9624

Germania by Ptolemy - many of these combined to form the "large" tribes.

View attachment 9625

Expansion by dates - see what I mean when I said the line between old Germanic people and Scandinavians is very hard to draw.

View attachment 9626

I forget the date of this map but it's post slavic expansion and after the many tribes combined. The Franks are never even mentioned in very old tribe lists. I posted this to show what the Saxons became eventually.

View attachment 9627

interesting.

 

[Milan.M]

How about you post the theories or data from which you make your conclusions.

Hungary Neolithic-oldest I1 found,from where it dispersed.
I1-Z63 descent from this clade,simple we found it all over Europe.

 

[I1a3_Young]

Hungary Neolithic-oldest I1 found,from where it dispersed.
I1-Z63 descent from this clade,simple we found it all over Europe.

One data point is not sufficient data for a good conclusion, although I personally believe that I1 was in the Balkans during the Last Glacial Maximum and then spread up the Danube.

However, all of the I1 in the Balkans NOW has come down from Germanic/Scandinavian areas.

I1 has a TMRCA (time to most recent common ancestor) of 4600 ybp. The BAB5 I1 sample in Hungary is 7000 ybp. That means BAB5 is not the MRCA.

There are 305 or more SNPs for I1, of which M253 is only one. M253 is only one of 305 SNPs that all I1 test positive for. Did M253 form 20000 ybp or 7000 ybp? We have no way of knowing due to lack of samples.

But the most recent I1 guy, the one we are descended from, lived only 4600 ybp. That is 2650 BC and it's in the Germanic/Scandinavian population.

If Hungary were the spread out point then the diversity of I1 would be there.

They have begun a Turkish study for 350 people 7000 to 10000 ybp. It will be interesting if they find I1 there and interesting if they don't.

 

[Milan.M]

But the most recent I1 guy, the one we are descended from, lived only 4600 ybp. That is 2650 BC and it's in the Germanic/Scandinavian population.

How do you know where he lived,also in 2650 B.C hardly was Germanic in that era.

We cleared that this clade has nothing to do with Goths, had it come with them we would find the norse branch in much bigger amount in the Balkans than I1-Z63.
Take a look in Scandinavian clades of I1.
There is no proof that I1-Z63 spread with Germanic people in the Balkans or anywhere else,except in your case Anglo-Saxons perhaps.
I-Z63 formed 4600 ybp, TMRCA 4000 ybp info
We don't know where it was at this period,and if we find I1-Z63 outside Germanic territories prior migration period we can easy close this discussion.
A 2014 study in Hungary uncovered remains of nine individuals from the Linear Pottery culture, one of whom was found to have carried the M253 SNP which defines Haplogroup I1.

 

[I1a3_Young]

How do you know where he lived,also in 2650 B.C hardly was Germanic in that era.

We cleared that this clade has nothing to do with Goths, had it come with them we would find the norse branch in much bigger amount in the Balkans than I1-Z63.
Take a look in Scandinavian clades of I1.
There is no proof that I1-Z63 spread with Germanic people in the Balkans or anywhere else,except in your case Anglo-Saxons perhaps.
I-Z63 formed 4600 ybp, TMRCA 4000 ybp info
We don't know where it was at this period,and if we find I1-Z63 outside Germanic territories prior migration period we can easy close this discussion.
A 2014 study in Hungary uncovered remains of nine individuals from the Linear Pottery culture, one of whom was found to have carried the M253 SNP which defines Haplogroup I1.

You keep repeating the same things and I suspect that there is a language barrier between us.

Z63 is absolutely moved by Gothic tribes. I'm part of the Z63 FB group and FTDNA project. It's plainly obvious. If you don't want to believe me, believe Maciamo who is the very knowledgeable author of Eupedia.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml

Haplogroup I1 is the most common type of haplogroup I in northern Europe. It is found mostly in Scandinavia and Finland, where it typically represent over 35% of the Y chromosomes. Associated with the Norse ethnicity, I1 is found in all places invaded by ancient Germanic tribes and the Vikings. After the core of ancient Germanic civilisation in Scandinavia, the highest frequencies of I1 are observed in other Germanic-speaking regions, such as Germany, Austria, the Low Countries, England and the Scottish Lowlands, which all have between 10% and 20% of I1 lineages.

Germanic migrations

The Germanic migrations dispersed I1 lineages to Britain (Anglo-Saxons), Belgium (Franks, Saxons), France (Franks, Visigoths and Burgundians), South Germany (Franks, Alamanni, Suebi, Marcomanni, Thuringii and others), Switzerland (Alamanni, Suebi, Burgundians), Iberia (Visigoths, Suebi and Vandals), Italy (Goths, Vandals, Lombards), Austria and Slovenia (Ostrogoths, Lombards, Bavarians), Ukraine and Moldova (Goths), as well as around Hungary and northern Serbia (Gepids). The I1 found among the Poles (6%), Czechs (11%), Slovaks (6%) and Hungarians (8%) is also the result of centuries of influence from their German and Austrian neighbours. The relatively high frequency of I1 around Serbia and western Bulgaria (5% to 10%) could be owed to the Goths who settled in the Eastern Roman Empire in the 3rd and 4th centuries.The Danish and Norwegian Vikings brought more I1 to Britain, Ireland, the Isle of Man, Normandy, Flanders, Iberia, Sicily... The Swedish Vikings (Varangians) set up colonies in Russia and Ukraine, and outposts as far as the Byzantine Empire, the Caucasus and Persia. The higher frequency of I1 in Northwest Russia (east of the Baltic) hints at had a particularly strong Varangian presence, which is concordant with the establishment of the Kievan Rus' by the Swedes.

On the blue underline, I disagree that S2078 is uncommon in those areas. It's almost the only version of Z63 found in Scandinavia and is very common in the British Isles.

 

[Milan.M]

You keep repeating the same things and I suspect that there is a language barrier between us.

Z63 is absolutely moved by Gothic tribes. I'm part of the Z63 FB group and FTDNA project. It's plainly obvious. If you don't want to believe me, believe Maciamo who is the very knowledgeable author of Eupedia.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I1_Y-DNA.shtml





View attachment 9632

On the blue underline, I disagree that S2078 is uncommon in those areas. It's almost the only version of Z63 found in Scandinavia and is very common in the British Isles.

Yes i suspect that there is indeed language barrier.

For Last time;I1-Z63 is almost absent in Scandinavia where Goths originate,if this clade was spread by Goths from Scandinavia we would expect the Norse clade I1-L22 to be predominant where Goths migrated and not only but also other "Nordic" lineages of R1b U106 and R1a Z284,but we found "Gothic" clade I1-Z63 which is almost absent in Scandinavia that was probably later arrival there from Germany, but nothing else of other "Gothic" clades,absolutely impossible to anyone who can think except the wishful thinkers
.But i guess this is not about wishful thinking.

A look at the phylogenetic tree shows that the Finns, Swedes and Norwegians belong primarily to the northern cluster I1-L22.
R1a Z284 is another haplogroup associated with Scandinavia.
R1b U106 is another haplogroup associated with Scandinavia.

The Goths should had been carriers of this haplogroups and clades and not the almost non existent I1-Z63 in Scandinavia.

Tell me if there is something you don't understand again.

 

[I1a3_Young]

Yes i suspect that there is indeed language barrier.

For Last time;I1-Z63 is almost absent in Scandinavia where Goths originate,if this clade was spread by Goths from Scandinavia we would expect the Norse clade I1-L22 to be predominant where Goths migrated and not only but also other "Nordic" lineages of R1b U106 and R1a Z284,but we found "Gothic" clade I1-Z63 which is almost absent in Scandinavia that was probably later arrival there from Germany, but nothing else of other "Gothic" clades,absolutely impossible to anyone who can think except the wishful thinkers
.But i guess this is not about wishful thinking.

A look at the phylogenetic tree shows that the Finns, Swedes and Norwegians belong primarily to the northern cluster I1-L22.
R1a Z284 is another haplogroup associated with Scandinavia.
R1b U106 is another haplogroup associated with Scandinavia.

The Goths should had been carriers of this haplogroups and clades and not the almost non existent I1-Z63 in Scandinavia.

Tell me if there is something you don't understand again.

How about you draw a map where you think the Goths came from and present evidence to back up your claim. I hope it doesn't come from Jordane's fantasy tales of magical swords, sons of gods, and battles against Amazon women.

 

[Bachus]

I1-Z63 among Serbs (not all results are on this table)

 

[eyeswideopen]

Hello all. New to this forum but curious on your thoughts and data on I1-M253. I'm Serbian from Sumadija and it seems this haplo group is not as common. i've posted my results below in case it helps. Thank you! Hope some light can be shed on this..

DYS393	DYS390	DYS19	DYS391	DYS385	DYS426	DYS388	DYS439	DYS389I	DYS392	DYS389II
13	23	14	10	13-14	11	14	11	12	11	28

 

[n1tr0dr]

You currently only have 12 markers, it's hard to tell. Have you tried nevgen.org? I suggest you aslo to go to Poreklo forum and ask there. They can say if you have matches on all 12 markers with anyone from 2200+ tested Serbs.

I1 isn't that uncommon in Serbia - we make about 8% here.

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Commander Spock]

Hello all. New to this forum but curious on your thoughts and data on I1-M253. I'm Serbian from Sumadija and it seems this haplo group is not as common. i've posted my results below in case it helps. Thank you! Hope some light can be shed on this..

DYS393	DYS390	DYS19	DYS391	DYS385	DYS426	DYS388	DYS439	DYS389I	DYS392	DYS389II
13	23	14	10	13-14	11	14	11	12	11	28

Maybe I1>M253>P109>FGC22045, but hard to tell from 12 markers test.