Serb with I1

Origin of Serbian I1-Z63 is still unclear. Maybe came with Slavs, maybe with Goths or Gepids.

Serbian I1-P109 is from Normans whithout doubt.
All Serbian P109 are from Drobnjaci tribe [video]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drobnjaci[/video]
Serbian holders of P109 from Drobnaci tribe are close to some Sicilian guy who is P109, they are around 900-950 years genetically distant from him.
Which means that Sicilians guy and Serbian holders of P109 are descendant of Normans which settled in Sicily and southern Italy and in the late 11th century they tried to invade Balkans.

Have you tried GED match Bachus?
 
Was your main MT haplogroup U4 or U5 or H or H1?

Usually the main Balkan haplogroup is H for women

I know just my Y DNA for now.

Yes, in the Balkans the most common mt DNA is H (but also in whole Europe), in Serbia is 41% [video]https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_mtdna_haplogroups_frequency.shtml[/video]

You have some Balkan ancestrors, right?
 
Thank you for the Bulgarian info. Of the 4% who are I1, do you have a breakdown of how many are Z63, Z58, etc?

Do you know which branches of Z63 are the most common?

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Unfortunately we don't have an official breakdown of haplogroup I1, my estimates are from FTDNA and some other testing. For now nobody under Z63 has done a deeper SNP test, but I suppose they must be from the popular branches as they have matches at 37 markers. Sometimes Bulgarians even with the most popular I2a-Dinaric have no matches at any level.
 
Not for me. I have a great doubt regarding your statement.

Why?

Have you heard Jovica Krtinić when he talked about Norman origin of Drobnjaci (I1-P109)?
 
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Why?Have you heard Jovica Krtinić when he talked about Norman origin of Drobnjaci (I1-P109)?
Yes I've heard him. However, I do not remember any convincing argument which would indisputably support connection between the Balkan I-P109 and Normans. The only thing I agree is that their ancestor came from the Northern Europe.

To be precise we are talking about the I-FGC22045 subclade.
 
Yes I've heard him. However, I do not remember any convincing argument which would indisputably support connection between the Balkan I-P109 and Normans. The only thing I agree is that their ancestor came from the Northern Europe.

To be precise we are talking about the I-FGC22045 subclade.

What is your opinion about origin of Balkan I1-P109?
 
Other than DYS 455=8 for indicating M253, the STR values are extremely difficult for predicting SNPs. Even in the Z63 project the values are all over the place.

If an Ancestry.com or 23andMe test has been performed, you can get more specific SNP results than the companies will reveal.

I wonder if the Serbian results match the ancient Wielbark samples.
 
What is your opinion about origin of Balkan I1-P109?
I believe I-FGC22045 came to the Balkans between 350 and 650 AD. It could've come with some of the East Germanic tribes, but it could've also come with the Slavs. The point is I believe it went through a continental route. And my main argument is that its closest "brother" clade I-FGC22046(xFGC22045) is today found in Sweden and Bulgaria. Sweden and Bulgaria were not on the way Normans were passing at the time of their expansion.

Finally none of the I-FGC22046 results are today found in any of the regions Normans had under their control.
 
Haplogroup I1 is 8,4% among Serbs.

On the "Serbian DNA project" there is a total 1742 samples and I1 is 146 which is 8,4% [video]https://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedinacne-grupe/?grp-filter=I1&lang=lat[/video]
 
Hi Bachus, could that be due to the higher testing/activity by Macura and Drobnjak family groups?
 
Hi Bachus, could that be due to the higher testing/activity by Macura and Drobnjak family groups?

Maybe partly, but without regard to it I1 is higher among Serbs than among other Balkan nations.

Majority of Serbian I1 came from Drobnjaci and Macura clans, but there are others subclades among Serbs except Z63 an P109, and those are M227 and M253.

Not all Serbian I1-P109 is from Drobnjaci and not all Serbian I1-Z63 is from Macure, but majority it is.

Many families from different regions with different surnames found out that they are close to Macure or Drobnjaci, because Macure and Drobnjaci migrated from Montenegro and Dalmatia for centuries.
Even among Croats, Bosnian and Sanžak Muslims exist subclades of Drobnjaci and Macure, because many Orthodox Serbs in the past were convert to Islam and Catholicism.
 
Are there any Y-DNA origins established for pockets of I1-M227 among Serbian population tested? Tha Macura map seams to establish the pocket concentrations for I1.
I see in some forums talk about Saxon Miners in the area of Kopaonik, Bor and the mountains of West Bulgaria, but that is not aligning with the Macura I1 map hot spots (Prijepolje, Valjevo-Kragujevac-Uzice triangle and Lika for example). Also, I did not see any reference to the specific Saxon miners' haplogroups if I1. I am probably not very well informed on this.

I see now that Bachus stating conformation of P109 with Sicily testing. The theory of Normans (Normandy Vikings) in south Adriatic 1081-2, 1984-5 the south of Scadar Lake leaves a lot of questions. What is the connection between south Adriatic coast and today's Prijepolje (Drobnaci concentration)? Did anyone try to find any further explanation? Is a few years in the 1080s a sufficient time for this transformation?

Since P109 is common in Rusia, Poland and Sweden from same Viking source, isn't it more logical it arrived in Balkans from the North-East? Austro-Turkish and Rusia-Turkish wars of 1780s were a much more significant event and not that far from today's concentrashen of Serbian Drobnjak P109. The Bulgarian, Serbes and Romanians altogether fought Ottomans as I understand the history. After that, and the Great Plague of 1738 there was a significant move of populations.
 
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@Zvrk9

Regions where Saxon miners were settled are not sufficiently tested, that regions are Kosovo, area around Kopaonik and northeastern Macedonia.
There is few people from Kosovo and Kopaonik who are probably descendants of Saxons and they have R1b-U106 and I2-M223 haplogroups.
Recently around 300 Serbs from Kosovo was tested and results will come out for the few months, then it will be cleaner about descandants of Saxons among Serbs, maybe some I1 of Saxon origin will appear.

Until now it seems that there is no I1 of Saxons origin among Serbs, and it semms that all Serbian I1 is from Normans or Goths and others eastern Germanic tribes.
Drobnjak cluster of I1-P109 is probably from Normans which tried to conquered southern/central Balkans 1081-1085 led by Robert Guiscard [video]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Guiscard#Against_the_Byzantines[/video]
Some guy from Sicily who is I1-P109 and Drobnjaci have common ancestor by male line from 900 years ago. That is very solid proof for Norman origin of Drobnjak I1-P109, because Normans tried to invade the Balkans from Sicily and southern Italy, they were present in Sicily since 1038.
A lot of Drobnjaks were settled in Prijepolje in the past, and because of that 1/4 of male population of Prijepolje are I1-P109.

Macura cluster of I1-Z63 probably came to Balkans with Goths in 5th century [video]macure.net/en/Home#Istorija_BalkanPeninsula[/video]
 
Sorry Bachus, I was making changes as you were responding. I was editing as I realized some questions were already answered.

Since P109 is common in Rusia, Poland, and Sweden, assuming from the same P109 Viking source, isn't it more logical it arrived in Balkans from the North-East? Austro-Turkish and Rusia-Turkish wars of 1780s were a more significant event and not that far from today's concentration of Serbian Drobnjak P109. The Russians, Bulgarians, Serbs, and Romanians altogether fought Ottomans as I understand the history. After that, and the Great Plague of 1738 there was a significant move of populations. This is the time of formation of the Military Frontier with Ottomans and many migrations.

Yes, Normans were in Sicily and Northern Italy earlier but no evidence of any significant presence in Adriatic earlier or for an extended time. I can't attach web links yet, when you get a chance try on Wikipedia Norman_conquest_of_southern_Italy. Yes, same link as yours.
 
Easy explanation is from regular contact with the I1 in Wielbark of Poland circa 300-900 AD, plus Visigoth migrations.

Z63 and P109 both should have been spread from Visigoths.

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