Who is behind Argentina2

[Yetos]

his name is paul Singer (I might have orthographic mistake)

his work, to buy cheap the loans and ask more,

Elliott Management Corp.,
Aurelius Capital Management.
the USA Republicans huge donator

The one who even press African Ghana to open war with Argentina, by garble\misrepresent the international sea laws
the well known Argentinian fregate.

in case you do not know him

he made 500% profit from Peru, a country that has 18,3 child malnutrition
he gave 9 000 000 $ and took 45 000 000 $

he manage to get 400 000 000 $ Kongo bonds for 10 000 000 $ and took 127 000 000
Profit 1270%

my best regards to USArs and especially to the Republicans,
they must be proud to have such a usurer as donator.

[LeBrok]

What do you mean "behind Argentina", like helping them?

Seriously Yetos, ask yourself a question. How guy worth 1.5 billion can rule Argentina or argentinian economy, which is estimated at 2.5 trillion?! Can Brazilian secret service kill him if he gets too deep in Brazilian politics? How difficult is this?
http://www.forbes.com/profile/paul-singer/

Sorry, but your conspiracies don't make much sense at all.

How is your "Occupy Wallstreet" movement going? Even students don't seem to care at the moment. It must be painful for you!

[Yetos]

What do you mean "behind Argentina", like helping them?

Seriously Yetos, ask yourself a question. How guy worth 1.5 billion can rule Argentina or argentinian economy, which is estimated at 2.5 trillion?! Can Brazilian secret service kill him if he gets too deep in Brazilian politics? How difficult is this?
http://www.forbes.com/profile/paul-singer/

Sorry, but your conspiracies don't make much sense at all.

How is your "Occupy Wallstreet" movement going? Even students don't seem to care at the moment. It must be painful for you!

I did not say he rule argentina,
I say Destroy Argentina for second time,

hmm, the race just started, turtle or rabbit, we 'll see in future.

Paul Singer demands 832 000 000 $ for hedge funds that he bought for 48 000 000 $ a profit over 1700%
the problem of Argentina is most with USA cause by what seems a US judge named Tom Grieza , an 83 year old man from the times of NIxon!!!!,
I wonder why he did not retired yet??????



the 2001 Argentina 'broke' was mainly after Goldman-sachs,

[Yetos]

The case will be solved good or bad way in 15/01/2015, day of the RUFO (rights upon future offers)
but seems that if twin Grieza-Singeur took their money with 1700% profit
4 others banks that accept the 'haircut' CityGroup HSBC JPMOrgan and Deutsche bank lose their money,

seems after a decade money voltures who demand 1700% profit are above Argentina,

my question is
WHAT IS MORAL AND FAIR?

1) SOMEONE WHO TOOK A LOAN NOT TO PAY
2) To ask money with 1700% profit in 6 years

what is moral and fair
1) to protect the loan shark
2) to pay the depth no matter the effects upon people who never heard what bond is, and are willing to work.

[Ike]

..I say Destroy Argentina...

Yes, we are perfectly aware that Argentina is currently under occupation. Bad times for them also.

[LeBrok]

The case will be solved good or bad way in 15/01/2015, day of the RUFO (rights upon future offers)
but seems that if twin Grieza-Singeur took their money with 1700% profit
4 others banks that accept the 'haircut' CityGroup HSBC JPMOrgan and Deutsche bank lose their money,

seems after a decade money voltures who demand 1700% profit are above Argentina,

my question is
WHAT IS MORAL AND FAIR?

1) SOMEONE WHO TOOK A LOAN NOT TO PAY
2) To ask money with 1700% profit in 6 years

what is moral and fair
1) to protect the loan shark
2) to pay the depth no matter the effects upon people who never heard what bond is, and are willing to work.

Could you tell us why Argentina signed such bad deal but Germany, France, Russia, China, Australia etc never did?

[bicicleur]

Could you tell us why Argentina signed such bad deal but Germany, France, Russia, China, Australia etc never did?

yes, please tell us.

cause this Paul Singer , he seems to be a real bad, greedy guy, a vulture
he probably is

at the same time he's the ideal scapegoat

but in reality it's Argentinian politics that drove the country to bankruptcy in 2001
something that can't be told

politicians allways cover each other
with or without this case, Argentinian economy and financial situation are a mess - again

[Yetos]

Could you tell us why Argentina signed such bad deal but Germany, France, Russia, China, Australia etc never did?

that is not the problem,

seek again

Argentina broke at 2001,
Haircuts, new agreements etc had happened,
Argentimna pay some to the rest countries and bank like 'Paris circle' deutsche bank etc etc

Singer bought pre 2001 bonds, at 2008 with a prize of 48 million$ and demands with his pal, a 1700% profit in less than 6 years.
that creates another circle, at 15/01/2015 the RUFO desicion will be determin,
if the Grieza-Singer demands turned to be accepted then haircuts etc etc in the future will have no meaning and USA laws might turn international, giving to each userer the right to be a shark.
but if not, the loan sharks that take huge % above normal market might face an end, and USA law must stop anex userers

[oriental]

I am not too familiar with all the details but it seems to start with Peron then there was the war over the Malvinas or Falkland Island with Thatcher with Reagan helping her with satellite information. The Argentinian economy took a nosedive. I think the Argentian bonds went into the international markets. The bonds were dirt cheap. I think Singer bought some for a song as it were (bad pun). Gradually the economy began to improve as other banks went easy by not demand the loans by taking a cut. The Singer character was going for the original face value of the bonds. His funds are called "vulture funds" in Wikipedia.

http://www.theguardian.com/global-de...ds-key-players

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/...t-providers-2/

http://america.aljazeera.com/article...turefunds.html

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/...t-providers-2/

http://www.projectcensored.org/10-vu...s-debt-relief/

http://www.businessinsider.com/vultu...sphere-2011-11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulture_fund

[LeBrok]

that is not the problem,

seek again

Argentina broke at 2001,
Haircuts, new agreements etc had happened,
Argentimna pay some to the rest countries and bank like 'Paris circle' deutsche bank etc etc

Singer bought pre 2001 bonds, at 2008 with a prize of 48 million$ and demands with his pal, a 1700% profit in less than 6 years.
that creates another circle, at 15/01/2015 the RUFO desicion will be determin,
if the Grieza-Singer demands turned to be accepted then haircuts etc etc in the future will have no meaning and USA laws might turn international, giving to each userer the right to be a shark.
but if not, the loan sharks that take huge % above normal market might face an end, and USA law must stop anex userers

You still didn't explain why Argentina made such bad choice in selling their debt to international bankers. Why such "bad luck" didn't happen to other countries, well except the Greeks?

I'm not defending Paul Singer, I just can't see how 45 million profit can destroy Argentinian economy of 500 billion dollars, and make him rule the country. For the country to go bankrupt look for nothing more than internal problems.
You know people Yetos. If a person makes a mistake then first reaction is to blame someone else, or at least blames bad luck. And the poor always blame the rich, the politicians, the emigrants, and foreign workers, and the bad luck. It has to be a reason my good people like them are poor, right?

[Yetos]

You still didn't explain why Argentina made such bad choice in selling their debt to international bankers. Why such "bad luck" didn't happen to other countries, well except the Greeks?

I'm not defending Paul Singer, I just can't see how 45 million profit can destroy Argentinian economy of 500 billion dollars, and make him rule the country. For the country to go bankrupt look for nothing more than internal problems.
You know people Yetos. If a person makes a mistake then first reaction is to blame someone else, or at least blames bad luck. And the poor always blame the rich, the politicians, the emigrants, and foreign workers, and the bad luck. It has to be a reason my good people like them are poor, right?

I am not telling Argentina is innocent at 2001,
I say that maybe corruption there was bigger in my country Greece,
Greece was lucky cause found some economical allies, as a state, but not as people,
the main problem here in Argentina2 is not who is responsible,
Argentina made a lot of chances and tryied to pay,

the problem in Argentina2 is not economical, is moral,
Neither Brazil neither China even EU who also lost money in Argentina1 press so much, for such numbers of profit, all accepted haircut.

the man bought 'cutten' bonds of >180 millions (180-245 if remember correct) for 48 millions and ask >800 (832) millions, as the bonds had never been cut,
that is the non moral in the case.

my point is that since some spoke of globalization, some must also put and check a global law to avoid politicians take 'bad' loans and also prohibit such 'vultures' to act.
I never shared the idea of globalization, but since is running, international laws must be written to avoid such cases,

in Argentina2 we face a country judge to ignore all international situation and status, and deny the haircuts that have been done, although accepts haircut bonds to be returned as 'non haircut', and puts his desicion above all others,

what I mean, the bonds that Paul Singer bought were 'cut', so he bought them for 1/3 of prize, he finds a country judge, and demands to be returned as non cut, that is the situation,

[LeBrok]

You are right about this moral dilemma. It is not right for Singer to gauge the poor or anyone else for this matter. But it is also not right for Argentina not to pay back money they borrowed or break the contracts.

[Ike]

the problem in Argentina2 is not economical, is moral,

Exactly what happens in Yugoslavia for the last 2 decades. For example a politicians gets loans to do some infrastructural jobs. They divert the jobs to some subsidiary companies owned by their friends. They get 300 mils to get 200 mils job done, and they split 100 mil surplus. Then they return the favor by importing 300 Peugeots for the police force. Politician and his friends are happy, Peugeot is happy, EU is happy because the people will be paying debts for generations to come.

EU knows exactly what is happening, and is in fact supporting this by promoting those corrupted politicians as "the only ones that are democratic". People can't do anything, because "democratic elections" are always skewed. Every time, as the elections draw near, we get extremely strong EU propaganda through all media pushing exactly these notorious criminals, and we hear verbal constructs that remind of a blackmail, threatening to push Balkan countries away in poverty, seclusion, economic sanctions or eventually a war, if their beloved partners don't win.

Democratic here in Europe means viable for corruption.

[roseroser]

I was there, amazing places ;)