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Thread: Alans(with Catacomb burial ritual) from River Don 8-th century 6 had haplogroup G2

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    Alans(with Catacomb burial ritual) from River Don 8-th century 6 had haplogroup G2

    Alans(with Catacomb burial ritual) from River Don 8-th century 6 had haplogroup G2
    https://www.academia.edu/7061155/_._...014._._312-315

    I did my best with translation of the part of the text, but I don't know if it is good enough

    For the analysis of Alanic paleo-DNA at the level of
    haplogroups (laboratory work was performed by VV
    Ilyinsky)
    were selected 12 samples of human teeth and bone fragments from the catacomb burials.
    (Ten from the excavations of VS Aksenov in Verhnesaltovskiy IV burial and two from the excavations of VA Sarapulkin in Dmitrov burial).

    For the investigation of the male line was carried out by analysis of 23 microsatellite loci (STR) of Y-chromosome of man. Definition of haplogroup of the female line was carried out by the study of mtDNA hypervariable regions. The task was to identify the nucleotide sequences of the hypervariable regions HVS-1, HVS-2, HVS -3 of mtDNA with subsequent determination of haplogroup of individuals and predictions of migration routes. As a result, in the 6 samples was found haplogroup G2 and 6 samples - mtDNA haplogroup I.

    In the North Caucasus, the territory of which
    is related to its origin the Don Alans, G2 occur in the form of two branches G2a1 (among Ossetians) and G2a3 (among Adyghes). G2a little occurs in Karachai and Balkars, as well as the Ingush and Chechens.
    Solving the problem of Alanian DNA is closely associated with the study of the role of Alans and Caucasian substrate in the formation of the Ossetian people, now takes on a more distinct shape. We got a first and very promising data on Alanian DNA of Khasar period.
    Required deep research in the field of paleo-DNA at the level of subclades not only of Alanic material
    of Khazar period and pre-Khasar period, but the study of paleo-DNA of carriers of Beneath-barrow(UnderKurgan type, Khazarian type) and of Yamna(Pit type, Bulgar type)
    burial rituals in the teritory of Khazar Khaganat, as well as simultaneous and preceding to them of Central-Caucasian substratum, that practiced burials in stone boxes, in underground and in above-ground tombs. Then it will become clear whether the male G2 of the Don Alans is the heritage
    of Sarmats, of Kangiuys, or a contribution of the Central Caucasian substratum.
    Last edited by Robert6; 15-08-14 at 17:00.

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    And 6 had mtdna I

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Google translation:
    3) To analyze Alanian paleo-DNA haplogroup level (laboratory work performed Iljinsky VV) were selected, 12 samples of human teeth and bone fragments from the catacomb burial. Investigation of the male line was carried out by analyzing 23 microsatellite loci (STR) Y-chromosome of man. Definition haplogroup female line was carried out the study of mtDNA hypervariable regions. The task was to identify the nucleotide sequences of the hypervariable regions HVS-1, HVS-2, HVS -3 mtDNA haplogroup, with subsequent determination of individuals and the predictions of migration routes. As a result, in the 6 samples was found haplogroup G2 and 6 samples - female haplogroup I.
    Scientists note that the North Caucasus, which are connected with the territory of their origin Don Alans, G2 occur as the two branches of the Ossetians (G2a1) and the Circassians (G2a3). G2a little occurs in Karachai and Balkars, as well as the Ingush and Chechens. The researchers write, and I quote: "The issue is Alan DNA is closely associated with the study of the role of Alan and Caucasian substrate in the formation of the Ossetian people, now takes on a more distinct shape. We got a first and very promising data about Alan DNA Khazar time." It is further noted that the need for a thorough research in the field paleoDNK level subclades not only Alanian material Khazar and predhazarskogo time, but the study of paleo-DNA carriers barrows and burial rites yamnogo on the territory of the Khazar Khanate as well as simultaneous and preceding them centrally-Caucasian substratum, practiced burial in stone boxes, underground and above-ground tombs. Then it can be ascertained whether the men G2 the Don Alan Sarmatian heritage, kangyuytsev or a contribution to the Central Caucasian substratum ..
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    How old are the corpses?

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    It is 8-th century from Don - Seversky Donets regions

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    If someone couldn't open the pdf file
    http://s002.radikal.ru/i200/1408/23/6847c3362248.jpg

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I did my best with translation of the part of the text, but I don't know if it is good enough

    For the analysis of Alanic paleo-DNA at the level of
    haplogroups (laboratory work was performed by VV
    Ilyinsky)
    were selected 12 samples of human teeth and bone fragments from the catacomb burials.
    (Ten from the excavations of VS Aksenov in Verhnesaltovskiy IV burial and two from the excavations of VA Sarapulkin in Dmitrov burial).

    For the investigation of the male line was carried out by analysis of 23 microsatellite loci (STR) of Y-chromosome of man. Definition of haplogroup of the female line was carried out by the study of mtDNA hypervariable regions. The task was to identify the nucleotide sequences of the hypervariable regions HVS-1, HVS-2, HVS -3 of mtDNA with subsequent determination of haplogroup of individuals and predictions of migration routes. As a result, in the 6 samples was found haplogroup G2 and 6 samples - mtDNA haplogroup I.

    In the North Caucasus, the territory of which
    is related to its origin the Don Alans, G2 occur in the form of two branches G2a1 (among Ossetians) and G2a3 (among Adyghes). G2a little occurs in Karachai and Balkars, as well as the Ingush and Chechens.
    Solving the problem of Alanian DNA is closely associated with the study of the role of Alans and Caucasian substrate in the formation of the Ossetian people, now takes on a more distinct shape. We got a first and very promising data on Alanian DNA of Khasar period.
    Required deep research in the field of paleo-DNA at the level of subclades not only of Alanic material
    of Khazar period and pre-Khasar period, but the study of paleo-DNA of carriers of Beneath-barrow(UnderKurgan type, Khazarian type) and of Yamna(Pit type, Bulgar type)
    burial rituals in the teritory of Khazar Khaganat, as well as simultaneous and preceding to them of Central-Caucasian substratum, that practiced burials in stone boxes, in underground and in above-ground tombs. Then it will become clear whether the male G2 of the Don Alans is the heritage
    of Sarmats, of Kangiuys, or a contribution of the Central Caucasian substratum.

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    Thanks Robert6. The results are surprisingly uniform. All belonging to same haplogroup G2 and mtDNA I. They must have come from very secluded place in Caucasus. It is interesting how they managed to get Iranaisd (if there is such word) without mixing with other IE haplogroups?
    I would prefer if they analyzed DNA to deeper subclades, or autosomal distances. We could be in a position to find their closest cousins in today's populations.
    Nevertheless, a great find, thanks.

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    But which are IE Haplogroups?

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    R1a-Z93 where in South Asia before the proto-Indo-Iranians

    http://i023.radikal.ru/1407/59/cd24245b498a.png
    Around the Dnieper river, L. Kleijn place the proto-Indo-Aryans
    http://www.egyptologie.be/decan_coll...ans_kleijn.htm
    Ukrainians (Hmelnitsk) 0% R1a-Z93 из 179
    Ukrainians (Cherkassy) 0% R1a-Z93 из 114
    Ukrainians (Belgorod) 0% R1a-Z93 из 56
    http://dienekes.blogspot.gr/2014/03/...gins-of-y.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert6 View Post
    R1a-Z93 where in South Asia before the proto-Indo-Iranians

    http://i023.radikal.ru/1407/59/cd24245b498a.png
    Around the Dnieper river, L. Kleijn place the proto-Indo-Aryans
    http://www.egyptologie.be/decan_coll...ans_kleijn.htm
    Ukrainians (Hmelnitsk) 0% R1a-Z93 из 179
    Ukrainians (Cherkassy) 0% R1a-Z93 из 114
    Ukrainians (Belgorod) 0% R1a-Z93 из 56
    http://dienekes.blogspot.gr/2014/03/...gins-of-y.html
    I think Z93 were the proto II, which spread almost 3 thousand years ago in Asia before Alans existed. If Alans spoke Iranian language, lack of Z93 or some R1a and R1b in a mix is very surprising.
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...an-split-of-IE

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Thanks for posting this, Robert6.

    Tthe uniformity of the paternal and maternal haplogroups could indicate that all the individuals are related - perhaps 6 brothers.

    G2 is not surprising for Alanic people. I hypothesized several years ago that the Alans could have brought some G2a1 lineages into Europe, based on the fact that the Ossetians (descendants of the Kingdom of Alania) carry a lot of G2a1. I have since changed my mind and believe that the original Central Asian Alans were primarily R1a people who also carried haplogroups from various assimilated Central Asian people such as G2a3b1, J2, Q and R1b. The Alans would have mixed with the native G2a1 people when they settled in the central Caucasus.

    Since the samples come from the Don region, G2a3b1 is in fact more likely than G2a1, as the Kuban is a hotspot for G2a3b1. Central Asian G2 is also essentially the Indo-European G2a3b1.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Thanks for posting this, Robert6.

    Tthe uniformity of the paternal and maternal haplogroups could indicate that all the individuals are related - perhaps 6 brothers.

    G2 is not surprising for Alanic people. I hypothesized several years ago that the Alans could have brought some G2a1 lineages into Europe, based on the fact that the Ossetians (descendants of the Kingdom of Alania) carry a lot of G2a1. I have since changed my mind and believe that the original Central Asian Alans were primarily R1a people who also carried haplogroups from various assimilated Central Asian people such as G2a3b1, J2, Q and R1b. The Alans would have mixed with the native G2a1 people when they settled in the central Caucasus.

    Since the samples come from the Don region, G2a3b1 is in fact more likely than G2a1, as the Kuban is a hotspot for G2a3b1. Central Asian G2 is also essentially the Indo-European G2a3b1.
    http://www.blutspendezurich.ch/Media...20G%282%29.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post

    Tthe uniformity of the paternal and maternal haplogroups could indicate that all the individuals are related - perhaps 6 brothers.
    They were from two different places
    Verhnesaltovsky IV burial of 10 samples (only in 7 out of 10 were found fragments of DNA) detected in four Y-dna G2 and six mtdna I
    Dmitrov burial two samples, both had Y-dna G2, with no result for mtdna
    Last edited by Robert6; 17-08-14 at 19:40.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Thanks for posting this, Robert6.

    Tthe uniformity of the paternal and maternal haplogroups could indicate that all the individuals are related - perhaps 6 brothers.

    G2 is not surprising for Alanic people. I hypothesized several years ago that the Alans could have brought some G2a1 lineages into Europe, based on the fact that the Ossetians (descendants of the Kingdom of Alania) carry a lot of G2a1. I have since changed my mind and believe that the original Central Asian Alans were primarily R1a people who also carried haplogroups from various assimilated Central Asian people such as G2a3b1, J2, Q and R1b. The Alans would have mixed with the native G2a1 people when they settled in the central Caucasus.

    Since the samples come from the Don region, G2a3b1 is in fact more likely than G2a1, as the Kuban is a hotspot for G2a3b1. Central Asian G2 is also essentially the Indo-European G2a3b1.
    But there is no Central Asian subclades of haplogroup R1a in North Caucasus.
    And North Caucasian R1a subclades Z2122+ , Z2123+, Y23592+ isn't yet found in Central Asia.

    And you can find G2a1a1 Z6638 in Central Asia very close to Caucasian G2a1a1


    221740 Khalilov Abdulkhalil Uzoqbek 19c. Uzbekistan G-M201 14 22 15 10 15-16 10 12 12 12 10 29 17 9-9 10 11 25 16 21 30 13-13-14-14 10 10 20-21 15 15 16 17 36-37 11 10 11 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 12 9 12 21-22 14 10 12 12 15 8 14 24 22 16 13 11 14 10 11 11 13
    320827 Ravshanov Qirq Adilbay 1850 from Trukish tribe named Qirq Uzbekistan G-M201 14 22 15 10 15-17 11 12 11 12 10 29 17 9-9 11 11 24 16 21 30 12-13-14-14 10 10 20-21 16 15 15 20 36-38 11 10 11 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 12 10 12 21-22 14 10 12 12 15 8 13 22 22 16 14 11 13 10 11 11 13
    184836 Ruslan Uzbekistan G-M201 14 22 15 10 16-17 11 12 12 12 10 28 16 9-9 11 11 24 16 21 28 13-13-14-15 10 10 20-21 15 15 15 19 38-44 11 11 11 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 12 11 12 21-22 14 10 12 12 16 8 13 21 22 17 13 11 13 10 11 11 13

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    While R1a in Georgia(South Caucasus) mostly are relict unrelated branches of paragroup Z93+ and Z94-
    So paragroup R1a-Z93*(R1a-Z93* Z93+ and Z94- but not tested for Z95) is possibly autochthonous to South Caucasus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Thanks for posting this, Robert6.

    Tthe uniformity of the paternal and maternal haplogroups could indicate that all the individuals are related - perhaps 6 brothers.

    G2 is not surprising for Alanic people. I hypothesized several years ago that the Alans could have brought some G2a1 lineages into Europe, based on the fact that the Ossetians (descendants of the Kingdom of Alania) carry a lot of G2a1. I have since changed my mind and believe that the original Central Asian Alans were primarily R1a people who also carried haplogroups from various assimilated Central Asian people such as G2a3b1, J2, Q and R1b. The Alans would have mixed with the native G2a1 people when they settled in the central Caucasus.

    Since the samples come from the Don region, G2a3b1 is in fact more likely than G2a1, as the Kuban is a hotspot for G2a3b1. Central Asian G2 is also essentially the Indo-European G2a3b1.
    R1b-2103 branches are found in Osset/Alan region-R1b-L277+,R1b-L584+, and R1b-7822+. 1 Digor Ossetian[R1b1a2a2 Z2105+ CTS9219+] has already tested positive.

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults
    H. event.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I have since changed my mind and believe that the original Central Asian Alans were primarily R1a people who also carried haplogroups from various assimilated Central Asian people such as G2a3b1, J2, Q and R1b. The Alans would have mixed with the native G2a1 people when they settled in the central Caucasus.
    If Alans had even some R1a in them, that (East Iranized) R1a would also be NATIVE to Central Asia. VERY different to the European types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    R1b-2103 branches are found in Osset/Alan region-R1b-L277+,R1b-L584+, and R1b-7822+. 1 Digor Ossetian[R1b1a2a2 Z2105+ CTS9219+] has already tested positive.

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults
    Ossetian subclade of R1b1a2a2 CTS9219+, connected to Avars.
    In South Ossetia
    Bibil(Bibilyaur Bibilti) and some others "are the best of Avars" according to Georgian chronicles
    Bibilti is R1b1a2a2 CTS9219.


    In North Ossetia
    Badil (Badilyata) was Madzhar or Avar or came from the city named Madzhar
    Kubatiev is Badilyat, and R1b1a2a2 CTS9219.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    If Alans had even some R1a in them, that (East Iranized) R1a would also be NATIVE to Central Asia. VERY different to the European types.
    And yet there is no R1a of Central Asian subclade in North Caucasus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert6 View Post
    And yet there is no R1a of Central Asian subclade in North Caucasus
    What do you mean? I'm sure there's some R1a-Z93 (native Central Asian type, and not the native West Asian Z93 type) among the Ossetians. https://www.familytreedna.com/public...x?section=ysnp

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    Just another proof that Ossetians are not "assimilated" Caucasic Speakers and also a proof that though R1a was and is one of the most prominent Haplogroups of Iranic speakers, it is not the only one.

    And Ialways said that Alanians was that Sarmatian tribe which was local to the region. Also Ossetians have some R1b and I too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert6 View Post
    Ossetian subclade of R1b1a2a2 CTS9219+, connected to Avars.
    In South Ossetia
    Bibil(Bibilyaur Bibilti) and some others "are the best of Avars" according to Georgian chronicles
    Bibilti is R1b1a2a2 CTS9219.


    In North Ossetia
    Badil (Badilyata) was Madzhar or Avar or came from the city named Madzhar
    Kubatiev is Badilyat, and R1b1a2a2 CTS9219.
    R1b1a2a2 CTS9219 is showing up in Poland,Czech/Russia/Ukraine, and Bulgaria[Pomak] and just recent in Sicily (Arberesh) Italy Albanian. R1b-CTS7822+ is positive in Armenian who could also be R1b-CTS9219+.
    b3a. R1b-L23: Z2103+ Z2105+ CTS7822+ and CTS9219+
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert6 View Post
    But there is no Central Asian subclades of haplogroup R1a in North Caucasus.
    And North Caucasian R1a subclades Z2122+ , Z2123+, Y23592+ isn't yet found in Central Asia.

    And you can find G2a1a1 Z6638 in Central Asia very close to Caucasian G2a1a1


    221740 Khalilov Abdulkhalil Uzoqbek 19c. Uzbekistan G-M201 14 22 15 10 15-16 10 12 12 12 10 29 17 9-9 10 11 25 16 21 30 13-13-14-14 10 10 20-21 15 15 16 17 36-37 11 10 11 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 12 9 12 21-22 14 10 12 12 15 8 14 24 22 16 13 11 14 10 11 11 13
    320827 Ravshanov Qirq Adilbay 1850 from Trukish tribe named Qirq Uzbekistan G-M201 14 22 15 10 15-17 11 12 11 12 10 29 17 9-9 11 11 24 16 21 30 12-13-14-14 10 10 20-21 16 15 15 20 36-38 11 10 11 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 12 10 12 21-22 14 10 12 12 15 8 13 22 22 16 14 11 13 10 11 11 13
    184836 Ruslan Uzbekistan G-M201 14 22 15 10 16-17 11 12 12 12 10 28 16 9-9 11 11 24 16 21 28 13-13-14-15 10 10 20-21 15 15 15 19 38-44 11 11 11 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 12 11 12 21-22 14 10 12 12 16 8 13 21 22 17 13 11 13 10 11 11 13
    I didn't know about these Central Asian G2a1a1. So it's not impossible that the original Alans were G2a1a1. We need more data to find out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert6 View Post
    While R1a in Georgia(South Caucasus) mostly are relict unrelated branches of paragroup Z93+ and Z94-
    So paragroup R1a-Z93*(R1a-Z93* Z93+ and Z94- but not tested for Z95) is possibly autochthonous to South Caucasus.
    Or rather an Early Bronze Age (Yamna, Maykop) steppe people migration across the Caucasus.

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