Alans(with Catacomb burial ritual) from River Don 8-th century 6 had haplogroup G2

[Goga]

And yet there is no R1a of Central Asian subclade in North Caucasus

What do you mean? I'm sure there's some R1a-Z93 (native Central Asian type, and not the native West Asian Z93 type) among the Ossetians. https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Ossetian/default.aspx?section=ysnp

 

[Alan]

Just another proof that Ossetians are not "assimilated" Caucasic Speakers and also a proof that though R1a was and is one of the most prominent Haplogroups of Iranic speakers, it is not the only one.

And Ialways said that Alanians was that Sarmatian tribe which was local to the region. Also Ossetians have some R1b and I too.

 

[Silesian]

Ossetian subclade of R1b1a2a2 CTS9219+, connected to Avars.
In South Ossetia
Bibil(Bibilyaur Bibilti) and some others "are the best of Avars" according to Georgian chronicles
Bibilti is R1b1a2a2 CTS9219.


In North Ossetia
Badil (Badilyata) was Madzhar or Avar or came from the city named Madzhar
Kubatiev is Badilyat, and R1b1a2a2 CTS9219.

R1b1a2a2 CTS9219 is showing up in Poland,Czech/Russia/Ukraine, and Bulgaria[Pomak] and just recent in Sicily (Arberesh) Italy Albanian. R1b-CTS7822+ is positive in Armenian who could also be R1b-CTS9219+.
b3a. R1b-L23: Z2103+ Z2105+ CTS7822+ and CTS9219+
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/ht35new/default.aspx?section=yresults

 

[Maciamo]

But there is no Central Asian subclades of haplogroup R1a in North Caucasus.
And North Caucasian R1a subclades Z2122+ , Z2123+, Y23592+ isn't yet found in Central Asia.

And you can find G2a1a1 Z6638 in Central Asia very close to Caucasian G2a1a1


221740 Khalilov Abdulkhalil Uzoqbek 19c. Uzbekistan G-M201 14 22 15 10 15-16 10 12 12 12 10 29 17 9-9 10 11 25 16 21 30 13-13-14-14 10 10 20-21 15 15 16 17 36-37 11 10 11 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 12 9 12 21-22 14 10 12 12 15 8 14 24 22 16 13 11 14 10 11 11 13
320827 Ravshanov Qirq Adilbay 1850 from Trukish tribe named Qirq Uzbekistan G-M201 14 22 15 10 15-17 11 12 11 12 10 29 17 9-9 11 11 24 16 21 30 12-13-14-14 10 10 20-21 16 15 15 20 36-38 11 10 11 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 12 10 12 21-22 14 10 12 12 15 8 13 22 22 16 14 11 13 10 11 11 13
184836 Ruslan Uzbekistan G-M201 14 22 15 10 16-17 11 12 12 12 10 28 16 9-9 11 11 24 16 21 28 13-13-14-15 10 10 20-21 15 15 15 19 38-44 11 11 11 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 12 11 12 21-22 14 10 12 12 16 8 13 21 22 17 13 11 13 10 11 11 13

I didn't know about these Central Asian G2a1a1. So it's not impossible that the original Alans were G2a1a1. We need more data to find out.

 

[Maciamo]

While R1a in Georgia(South Caucasus) mostly are relict unrelated branches of paragroup Z93+ and Z94-
So paragroup R1a-Z93*(R1a-Z93* Z93+ and Z94- but not tested for Z95) is possibly autochthonous to South Caucasus.

Or rather an Early Bronze Age (Yamna, Maykop) steppe people migration across the Caucasus.

 

[Goga]

Z93* is NOT native to the Steppes. But rather native to West Asia and some of it native to Central Asia. Z93* is much more likely from the Iranian Plateau, since the Maykop people came from the Iranian Plateau and settled down in the southern and central parts in the Caucasus mountains. Later on the migrated up to north, into the Yamna Horizon.

 

[Silesian]

Z93* is NOT native to the Steppes. But rather native to West Asia and some of it native to Central Asia. Z93* is much more likely from the Iranian Plateau, since the Maykop people came from the Iranian Plateau and settled down in the southern and central parts in the Caucasus mountains. Later on the migrated up to north, into the Yamna Horizon.

Are any R1a from Iranian Plateau found in Jasz people living in the region known as "Jászság"
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Jaszsag/default.aspx?section=yresults

 

[Aberdeen]

Z93* is NOT native to the Steppes. But rather native to West Asia and some of it native to Central Asia. Z93* is much more likely from the Iranian Plateau, since the Maykop people came from the Iranian Plateau and settled down in the southern and central parts in the Caucasus mountains. Later on the migrated up to north, into the Yamna Horizon.

So, how do you explain the near perfect split between Z-283 in Europe and Z93 in Asia, with the dividing line being right where archeology would suggest the Indo-European homeland is? IMO, the Iranian Plateau was the location of the first expansion of IE folk to the east.

 

[Goga]

So, how do you explain the near perfect split between Z-283 in Europe and Z93 in Asia, with the dividing line being right where archeology would suggest the Indo-European homeland is? IMO, the Iranian Plateau was the location of the first expansion of IE folk to the east.

http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com.tr/2014/03/y-dna-r1a-spread-from-iran.html

 

[Goga]

So, how do you explain the near perfect split between Z-283 in Europe and Z93 in Asia, with the dividing line being right where archeology would suggest the Indo-European homeland is?

Who's saying that only R1a has something to do with PIE homeland? What about R1b, J2, G2 etc.? there's still no proof that PROTO Indo-Europeans were exclusively R1a or R1a at the first place. Also, I believe that R1a* is from West Asia / Iranian Plateau also, because the native oldest types of R1a are in West Asia.

 

[Aberdeen]

http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com.tr/2014/03/y-dna-r1a-spread-from-iran.html

A person can draw imaginary directional arrows wherever they want. That doesn't change the fact that if you draw a line north from Crimea, pretty much all the Z93 is on one side and pretty much all the Z282 is on the other side. Older types of subclades do indicate that R1a probably originated in Asia, but that doesn't change anything about where the Z93/Z282 split appears to have occurred a few thousand years ago.

 

[Goga]

First of all Z292 is absolutely not the same as Z93. Is African R1b the same as the European R1b, or West Asian R1b? No. Ancient people who were Z93 were absolutely not the same as ancient Z293 people. They belonged to a different ethnicity/civilization. Also, there is no evidence that Z93/Z292 occurred in the European Parts of the Steppes. East European R1a is NOT diverse and almost exclusively Z292. So that means that Z292 migrated into the East European Steppes after the split. Later on R1a Z292 mixed with the local European populations, like I2a, I2b, I1, N1c1 etc. and different European mtDNA. So R1a Z292 people who migrated into Europe mixed to much with the locals, and became very different people from the original R1a*. Original R1b* & R1a* were most likely very close to the 'Gedrosia' auDNA, because R1a* evolved somewhere around the Iranian Plateau / Zagros mountains.

 

[Silesian]

Google translation:
..........It is further noted that the need for a thorough research in the field paleoDNK level subclades not only Alanian material Khazar and predhazarskogo time, but the study of paleo-DNA carriers barrows and burial rites yamnogo on the territory of the Khazar Khanate as well as simultaneous and preceding them centrally-Caucasian substratum, practiced burial in stone boxes, underground and above-ground tombs. Then it can be ascertained whether the men G2 the Don Alan Sarmatian heritage, kangyuytsev or a contribution to the Central Caucasian substratum ..

Don't Jewish men also carry G2a1?
The Ashkenazi Jewish G2a1a men......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_G2a1_(Y-DNA)

 

[Aberdeen]

First of all Z292 is absolutely not the same as Z93. Is African R1b the same as the European R1b, or West Asian R1b? No. Ancient people who were Z93 were absolutely not the same as ancient Z293 people. They belonged to a different ethnicity/civilization. Also, there is no evidence that Z93/Z292 occurred in the European Parts of the Steppes. East European R1a is NOT diverse and almost exclusively Z292. So that means that Z292 migrated into the East European Steppes after the split. Later on R1a Z292 mixed with the local European populations, like I2a, I2b, I1, N1c1 etc. and different European mtDNA. So R1a Z292 people who migrated into Europe mixed to much with the locals, and became very different people from the original R1a*. Original R1b* & R1a* were most likely very close to the 'Gedrosia' auDNA, because R1a* evolved somewhere around the Iranian Plateau / Zagros mountains.

I think you mean A282, not Z292. And, since Z282 is R1a1a1b1 and Z93 is R1a1a1b2, it appears that they're very closely related. Estimates I've read for the time of the division would seem to match the estimated time of the first split in the presumed IE population. And I really don't follow your logic - if eastern Europe R1a is almost all Z282 and western Asia is almost all Z93, how does that "prove" anything other than what I said about the dividing line being right around the presumed IE homeland? And the probable location of the origins of R1a don't tell us anything about where R1a1a1b was located geographically when it split, as that happened many thousands of years after R1a split from R1*. I'm certainly no geneticist, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding this, but everything the experts tell us about the subclades of R1a appears to me to suggest that there was a population on the steppes a few thousand years ago that split in half, with one group going east and another going west.

 

[Goga]

I think you mean A282, not Z292. And, since Z282 is R1a1a1b1 and Z93 is R1a1a1b2, it appears that they're very closely related. Estimates I've read for the time of the division would seem to match the estimated time of the first split in the presumed IE population. And I really don't follow your logic - if eastern Europe R1a is almost all Z282 and western Asia is almost all Z93, how does that "prove" anything other than what I said about the dividing line being right around the presumed IE homeland? And the probable location of the origins of R1a don't tell us anything about where R1a1a1b was located geographically when it split, as that happened many thousands of years after R1a split from R1*. I'm certainly no geneticist, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding this, but everything the experts tell us about the subclades of R1a appears to me to suggest that there was a population on the steppes a few thousand years ago that split in half, with one group going east and another going west.

Where is the presumed IE homeland? If you mean Yamna Horizon, than there is NO evidence at all that Z292 / Z93 spilt occurred there. Why? Because at this moment no ancient subclade of R1a and ancestral to Z282 AND Z93 has been found there. R1a in Western Asia is VERY diverse. The ancestral R1a both to Z282 and Z93 has been found in West Asia / Iranian Plateau. Also, just take me as an example. I'm neither Z282 nor Z93. But this is OT because this topic is about the East Iranic ALANIANS and their G2a1 Y-DNA haplogroup. Another proof that ancient speakers of East Iranic language belonged also at least to G2a1.

 

[Robert6]

What do you mean? I'm sure there's some R1a-Z93 (native Central Asian type, and not the native West Asian Z93 type) among the Ossetians. https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Ossetian/default.aspx?section=ysnp

I mean that relatively old(more than 4500 years old each clade) subclades R1a Z2123, R1a Z2122 that are in North Caucasus, these subclades did not yet found in Central Asia.

 

[Robert6]

Are any R1a from Iranian Plateau found in Jasz people living in the region known as "Jászság"
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Jaszsag/default.aspx?section=yresults

The Jaszsag project have only one close match with eastern territories like the Iran, for now is that one haplotype
277016 Koza Pusztamonostor, Hungary Hungary G-M201 13 22 15 10 13-14 11 12 11 12 11 29 18 9-9 11 11 23 16 21 30 13-13-14-14



Close to
203133 Isadiar Esma'il Shah-bodaghlu ca. 1844-1914 Unknown Origin G-M201 13 22 15 10 13-14 11 12 11 12 11 29 18 9-9 11 11 23 16 20 30 13-13-14-14 10 11 20-20 16 13 20 19 37-38 11 10


Shah Bodaghlu (Persian: شاه بداغلو‎, also Romanized as Shāh Bodāghlū) is a village in Bastamlu Rural District, in the Central District of Khoda Afarin County, East Azerbaijan Province, Iran. At the 2006 census, its population was 91, in 21 families.

 

[Goga]

I mean that relatively old(more than 4500 years old each clade) subclades R1a Z2123, R1a Z2122 that are in North Caucasus, these subclades did not yet found in Central Asia.

Not sure. because R1a Z2123 & R1a Z2122 is evolved from Z94 (or more precisely from Z2124). And in turn Z94 evolved out of Z93. And you can find Z94 everywhere from the Jews who live(d) in the Near East to Kirgizstan.

 

[Robert6]

Not sure. because R1a Z2123 & R1a Z2122 is evolved from Z94 (or more precisely from Z2124). And in turn Z94 evolved out of Z93. And you can find Z94 everywhere from the Jews who live(d) in the Near East to Kirgizstan.

The thing that I wanna say, is that R1a-Z2122 and R1a-Z2123 didn't came to North Caucasus and to western Urals from Cenral Asia(beacause there are no R1a-Z2122 and R1a-Z2123 in Cenral Asia), but most posibly they came from western Iran from Zagros region in the time of Bronze age

 

[Alan]

So, how do you explain the near perfect split between Z-283 in Europe and Z93 in Asia, with the dividing line being right where archeology would suggest the Indo-European homeland is? IMO, the Iranian Plateau was the location of the first expansion of IE folk to the east.

To be fair Aberdeen z93 and z283 d various other clades meet right between Iran, Kurdistan and Balochistan.