Albanian Tribe and Clan (Fis) Y-DNA

I plan on doing a deeper ydna ftdna once i can afford it to contribute to the albanian ftdna.
Hi Dibran, do you know the tribal region or village you originate from in Mirdita? You should test at ftdna because it would be really useful to see what branch you actually belong to. Majority of R1a though in the Balkans seem to have come with Slavs, but there is a 50/50 chance you might belong to a Germanic branch.
 
I previously posted about V13/CTS5856. Since then I've used the Genographic project samples to look deeper in the distribution of V13/CTS5856. The analysis of that group is too specific for this board, but I also looked at the distribution of all groups in Albania, and that might be of interest here. I picked albania since V13/CTS5856 is the major haplogroup there, and because people were interested in it :).

All what follows is based on data from the Genographic project ("The National Geographic Society’s Genographic Project") unless otherwise specified, with many thanks to them for their work and their kind permission for me to access their database.

I queried the Genographic project's database for all demographic fields containing "Albania". I selected all samples that had a male Albanian ancestry (including some Italian/Greek minorities). Limiting to those with Y-DNA info I had 109 samples. The samples belong to different phases of the project. The next statistics are based on the main one, containing 70 samples. The following were the totals over these 70, and the totals over the samples from the other phases that I mapped to the SNP's of the main phase (total n=109). I have to stress this is not a representative sample of Albania as a whole, as regions from where there was a lot of emmigration are obviously favored, most Genographic participants were descendants of emmigrants (especially to the US).

Levels in Albania:
E-M215: 33%
G: 6%
H: 1%
I1: 5%
I2: 12%
J1: 2%
J2: 16%
R1a: 8%
R1b: 20%

Some remarks:
93% of E-M215 was V13+ in the detailed samples.

The only detailed G was P303+.

About a quarter of the I2 was m223+, the rest P37+. P37 was completely F3245 in the detailed samples.

In the detailed samples J2a and J2b were nearly 50/50, J2b dominated by Z590.

The one detailed R1a is CTS3402+

Almost all R1b was P310-, and most of it was CTS9219+ like in Greece (although there's far fewer P310 in this very limited Albanian sample).
 
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I previously posted about V13/CTS5856. Since then I've used the Genographic project samples to look deeper in the distribution of V13/CTS5856. The analysis of that group is too specific for this board, but I also looked at the distribution of all groups in Albania, and that might be of interest here. I picked albania since V13/CTS5856 is the major haplogroup there, and because people were interested in it :).

All what follows is based on data from the Genographic project ("The National Geographic Society’s Genographic Project") unless otherwise specified, with many thanks to them for their work and their kind permission for me to access their database.

I queried the Genographic project's database for all demographic fields containing "Albania". I selected all samples that had a male Albanian ancestry (including some Italian/Greek minorities). Limiting to those with Y-DNA info I had 109 samples. The samples belong to different phases of the project. The next statistics are based on the main one, containing 70 samples. The following were the totals over these 70, and the totals over the samples from the other phases that I mapped to the SNP's of the main phase (total n=109). I have to stress this is not a representative sample of Albania as a whole, as regions from where there was a lot of emmigration are obviously favored, most Genographic participants were descendants of emmigrants (especially to the US).

Levels in Albania:
E-M215: 33%
G: 6%
H: 1%
I1: 5%
I2: 12%
J1: 2%
J2: 16%
R1a: 8%
R1b: 20%

Some remarks:
93% of E-M215 was V13+ in the detailed samples.

The only detailed G was P303+.

About a quarter of the I2 was m223+, the rest P37+. P37 was completely F3245 in the detailed samples.

In the detailed samples J2a and J2b were nearly 50/50, J2b dominated by Z590.

The one detailed R1a is CTS3402+

Almost all R1b was P310-, and most of it was CTS9219+ like in Greece (although there's far fewer P310 in this very limited Albanian sample).

Thanks Rafc!

Yes, almost all of Albanian R1b is P310- and most most it is under CTS9219>BY611 and some under PF7562 (according to data from Albanian Bloodlines at FTDNA and scientific studies).

For J2b samples could you give me deeper SNP classification below L283, Z590 if available: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L283/

I'd be curious if you see any Z1043, Z1048.
 
Thanks Rafc!

Yes, almost all of Albanian R1b is P310- and most most it is under CTS9219>BY611 and some under PF7562 (according to data from Albanian Bloodlines at FTDNA and scientific studies).

For J2b samples could you give me deeper SNP classification below L283, Z590 if available: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L283/

I'd be curious if you see any Z1043, Z1048.

Nothing lower than Z590 was tested, unfortunately.
 
Hi Leka,

So sorry for the late response. I didnt even see I was replied to. Still pretty new to this site. As for where in Mirdita I am unsure. I more and more am starting to suspect that My paternal line descends from Epirus. This would explain the higher likelihood of R1a.

So the way family oral history goes(which is always questionable) The Kocis of my line descend from a clan of Mirditore by the name Pershpala sometimes written as pershpalaj. I connected with a couple of Mirdit with this surname and tried convincing them to test to see if our paternal ancestors share the same haplogroup. Never tested though so kind of at a loss on that end. The story claims that 3 brothers broke off from an unknown point of origin. Some went to mirdita(and then later diber), others went to Bulgaria, and Turkey.

My father says the surname was kind of like a title. Much like many albanian surnames are. it is a turkish word for Ram or something or other. The story claims we left Mirdita due to blood feuds(we dont know what year this was) and settled in Okshtun in Dibra vogel. The martanesh region. The name Koci was adopted from warring with the Ottomans apparently. Later we converted to Islam.

Interestingly there is a Koci clan which is believed to originate in Epirus(this would explain R1a, given the intermixed region). This Koci clan even had a group who settled in Arbanas Bulgaria, and Turkey. The group in Arbanas would move to Moldova where Vasil Lupu Coci half albanian and half moldovan would being prince of Moldova for 19 years.

." The Coci family settled in Wallachia (Țara Rumânească) in the first half of the 16th century.[1] His father, Nicolae (Neculai) Coci was a shopkeeper from Macedonia, the son of Constantin (Coce) and Ecaterina.[2] Nicolae entered Moldavian nobility in 1593.[3] According to some sources, his father was born in Arbanasi (a village in modern Bulgaria), while some other historians claim Arbănaşi (modern Romania).[4]
Dimitrie Cantemir (1673–1723) called him Albanezul ("Albanian"); some historians maintain that Lupu's father, Neculai, was of Albanian origin.[5] Nicolae Bănescu (writing in 1926) maintained that his father was of Balkanic origin, while his mother was Romanian (Moldavian).[6] Seton-Watson (writing in 1934) mentioned him as being of Albanian origin.[7][better source needed] English historian Steven Runciman (1903–2000) maintains that his father was an Albanian adventurer, and his mother was a Moldavian heiress.[8]According to historian Ioan Bolovan (1997), Vasile Lupu's father was an Albanian from Arbanasi, probably with distant origin from Epirus.[9][verification needed] According to historian Toader Nicoară (2005), he may have been an Albanian from Arbanasi, Bulgaria.[10] In modern historiography,[by whom?] his descent has been described as of mixed Albanian and Greek origin."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasile_Lupu



Its believed his clan were Orthodox. This is interesting given my father claims we were orthodox and mirdita was catholic. There are too many gaps for me to be certain of a connection to the Koci clan in Epirus. It wouldnt explain the name shift from Pershpalaj. It does however explain the high italian and greek that showed up in his gedmatch reports(if there is any accuracy to these tests). Could it be possible something in the oral history was lost in translation? perhaps it was a woman who married into the Koci clan that was connected to the Pershpalaj, and as is often with oral history things get twisted, and they claimed it was from the fathers line. Idk. I just know much of my families history has been in Diber for at least 300 years now. The Kocis who went from Epirus to Bulgaria went in 1450s. Perhaps one of the brothers went to Diber instead.

The classifications recently changed on 23andme. So I have no idea if they classified me into a subgroup or not. They stated I was R-M417 a subgroup of M512. So Idk what that means. I am interested in doing the Ftdna y test but Idk how many markers I should test at.


Also if it is of any help I could post my gedmatch results. My fathers as well. I recently had him take the test. Interestingly enough he has alot of Greek relatives. Overwhelmingly so. Which makes me wonder if our clan was in fact in south albania and Cameria region. His maternal line was T1 which seems less common in the Balkans. It is higher in Bulgaria.

mtDNA-T1-map (2).jpg

My mothers line was H11a

mtDNA-H1-H3-map (1).jpg
 
Hi Dibran,

I will keep an eye for a Preshpalaj in Mirdite, probably your best bet, and will let you know if I find such family. Although, we can't deduce where your origins lie based on your last name alone, as you mentioned 'Koci' used to be a title and most likely was changed in recent history. There are many non related families in Kosova and North Albanian who carry such last name, Koci, a family from Kabashi tribe and another from Thaçi come to mind.

Epirus to mee doesn't makes sense, you could have come from North for all we could tell. The only way to find that out is test Y-STR markers at Family Tree DNA (which of course is too late as you have tested somewhere else, I saw your thread), and see who matches you within the genealogical time frame and what branch of R1a you belong to. I don't know too much about the company you have tested but I don't believe they test STR markers, so in short you won't be able to find out who are your closest matches paternally. Hypothetically speaking, if you are M458 confirmed by this new company, you won't be able to know if your paternal ancestors were Serbs, Bulgarians/Macedonians, Croats etc.
 
Hi Dibran,

I will keep an eye for a Preshpalaj in Mirdite, probably your best bet, and will let you know if I find such family. Although, we can't deduce where your origins lie based on your last name alone, as you mentioned 'Koci' used to be a title and most likely was changed in recent history. There are many non related families in Kosova and North Albanian who carry such last name, Koci, a family from Kabashi tribe and another from Thaçi come to mind.

Epirus to mee doesn't makes sense, you could have come from North for all we could tell. The only way to find that out is test Y-STR markers at Family Tree DNA (which of course is too late as you have tested somewhere else, I saw your thread), and see who matches you within the genealogical time frame and what branch of R1a you belong to. I don't know too much about the company you have tested but I don't believe they test STR markers, so in short you won't be able to find out who are your closest matches paternally. Hypothetically speaking, if you are M458 confirmed by this new company, you won't be able to know if your paternal ancestors were Serbs, Bulgarians/Macedonians, Croats etc.


Hi Leka. As far as I know. According to some reading LivingDNA does specify the grouping and mutation of both maternal and paternal lineages. Rather than a broad assessment it should give me an idea.

Some sample profiles I looked up by people in twitter also had specific mutations.

FtDNA is not out of the question. I plan to eventually test and join the group. But as I understand LivingDNA is the best company right now. Money wise and results wise. Aside from let's say health related data. Considering I used my PayPal it was more advantageous at the moment.
 
Hi Leka. As far as I know. According to some reading LivingDNA does specify the grouping and mutation of both maternal and paternal lineages. Rather than a broad assessment it should give me an idea.

Some sample profiles I looked up by people in twitter also had specific mutations.

FtDNA is not out of the question. I plan to eventually test and join the group. But as I understand LivingDNA is the best company right now. Money wise and results wise. Aside from let's say health related data. Considering I used my PayPal it was more advantageous at the moment.

Did you get your results?
 
Did you get your results?

Hi Leka,

It can take up to 3 months. I should have my results between march nd end of April. Will update as soon as available.
 
Pershendetje te gjitheve

un jam Bersant Selmani shqiptar nga Prishtina Kosove
haplogrupi I2c
me prejardhje nga Juniku Kosove
fisi Morina nga Mirdita Shqiperi

hi to all

i am Bersant Selmani albanian from Prishtina Kosova
haplogroup I2c
region of origin Junik Kosova
Morina clan from Mirdita Albania
 
Pershendetje te gjitheve

un jam Bersant Selmani shqiptar nga Prishtina Kosove
haplogrupi I2c
me prejardhje nga Juniku Kosove
fisi Morina nga Mirdita Shqiperi

hi to all

i am Bersant Selmani albanian from Prishtina Kosova
haplogroup I2c
region of origin Junik Kosova
Morina clan from Mirdita Albania

Si je Bersant?

Un jam nga Dibres Vogel.

Prejardhje nga Mirdita.

Haplogroup R1a.

My family doesn't know when we left Mirdita exactly. Only that our last name originally was Pershpalaj before we went to Diber.
 
This clan business is interesting. Any one has some kind of detailed history of how these clans came to be? Are they created in recent history or there is a possibility much older then that? If people were already mixed in ancient times the probability is that these clans would be pretty mixed too, but only a proper DNA study can determine that. Example there were many misconceptions with some racial separation between Christian and Muslim Lebanese or some kind of Racial purity within Jews. Dna testing seem to have busted these conceptions.

Recent history, they were result of the Ottoman Empire destroying the governing institutions of medieval Albania; an attempt at reorganizing society. There is a book for them if you want "The Tribes of Albania: History, Society and Culture" by Robert Elsie. Religious intermixing was common.
 
From Istog-Vrella
Krasniqi Clan
E-V13 via 23andme
 
From Istog-Vrella
Krasniqi Clan
E-V13 via 23andme

Hi Stratioti, it would be really great if we could get your sample either at ftdna of yseq to find out your branch/cluster. Do you by any chance know which Krasniqi brotherhood you belong to, and where from you originate prior to Vrella? I will also need your last name so we can list you. Please pm me if you wish or email me (I can pm you my email because I am not allowed to post it here util I have 10 posts)
 
Hi Leka,

It can take up to 3 months. I should have my results between march nd end of April. Will update as soon as available.

Hi Dibra,

I had a chance to look a bit into Preshpalaj, and there is such a family in Spaç, though, they are not related to Spaçi tribe - who are predominantly J2b2-PH1751. They came to Spaç from Kalaj of Kthelle e Eperme.
 
Hi again,

My last name is BLAKAJ, dont know how to be more specific about my clan(Krasniqi).
Prior to Vrella we orginate from Isniq which is a fact and before that there are 2 theories. One that we came from Bjake(Albania) one that we came from Berane(Montenegro).

Mother side came late from Albania, from Mirdite(Clan Morine). Mothers side are catholic still today. Fathers side where catholic a couple generations ago but changed faith to Islam in 19th century.

Do you have any link or guide for "ftdna of yseq" ?
 
Hi again,

My last name is BLAKAJ, dont know how to be more specific about my clan(Krasniqi).
Prior to Vrella we orginate from Isniq which is a fact and before that there are 2 theories. One that we came from Bjake(Albania) one that we came from Berane(Montenegro).

Mother side came late from Albania, from Mirdite(Clan Morine). Mothers side are catholic still today. Fathers side where catholic a couple generations ago but changed faith to Islam in 19th century.

Do you have any link or guide for "ftdna of yseq" ?

Interesting. Thanks for this info Stratioti. So you are Blakaj. We do have another Krasniqi-Blakaj tested as E-V13.

Yes, it would be great if you test at FTDNA or YSEQ (minimum Y37), as well as your maternal side (Y-DNA).

To really dig in deeper into the Y-DNA and help our project, we need Albanians to test at either: FTDNA (Y37+) or YSEQ Alpha-Beta (Y37) and join "Albanian Bloodlines" group at YSEQ for results analysis.
(23andMe, Geno2, LivingDNA are such a low resolution when it comes to Y-DNA).

In addition, you may click here for the links, testing options, and further info.
 
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Thanks Stratioti! I figured that you're probably Blakaj because I wasn't aware of any other Krasniqi family that lives in Vrelle. Please see the links that Trojet provided and if you need assistance, let us know.
 
I would encourage more south Albanians to test as well. I would like to see if there's any paternal connection between ghegs and tosks (seems to be in some cases).
 

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