Albanian Tribe and Clan (Fis) Y-DNA

[Skerdilaidas]

This thread will be an attempt to map out the genetic paternal lines, or Y-DNA haplogroups, of the Albanian tribes or clans (which many have an oral tradition of common decent from one man). I decided to make this thread in english since it is easier given the terminology of the field and to welcome any helpful input from non-Albanian speakers. Albanians that know their Clan/Fis and have tested please contribute to this thread and the Albanian project, and if you do know your Clan and have not tested, I encourage you to do so.

I am from Drenica, Central Kosova and belong to Elshani Clan sub branch of the Thaci Clan, and I am R1b1a2a


So far this is what we have.

Official web page of the Albanian clan Y-DNA Project at FTDna
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Abanian_DNA_Poject/default.aspx?section=results


This web page is moderated by an Albanian mod from Kosova, and if you have any question, you can contact him in the email on the link.

[Silesian]

This thread will be an attempt to map out the genetic paternal lines, or Y-DNA haplogroups, of the Albanian tribes or clans (which many have an oral tradition of common decent from one man). I decided to make this thread in english since it is easier given the terminology of the field and to welcome any helpful input from non-Albanian speakers. Albanians that know their Clan/Fis and have tested please contribute to this thread and the Albanian project, and if you do know your Clan and have not tested, I encourage you to do so.

I am from Drenica, Central Kosova and belong to Elshani Clan sub branch of the Thaci Clan, and I am R1b1a2a


So far this is what we have.

Official web page of the Albanian clan Y-DNA Project at FTDna
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Abanian_DNA_Poject/default.aspx?section=results


This web page is moderated by an Albanian mod from Kosova, and if you have any question, you can contact him in the email on the link.

Semargl shows Z2103 predicted, the project you linked show Albanians from different regions.

http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/country/4/

Also kit N76544 Albanian Zym, Prizren, Koso, is not listed in your link.
B3.3. R1b-L23: Should order Z2103 & CTS7822
https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults


Have any of the R1b's been tested for L584 or L277 or CTS-7822 ?

thanx

[FBS]

J2b2* - Gashi i Gurit
E1b1b1a2* - Kelmendi

[Skerdilaidas]

Semargl shows Z2103 predicted, the project you linked show Albanians from different regions.

http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/country/4/

Also kit N76544 Albanian Zym, Prizren, Koso, is not listed in your link.
B3.3. R1b-L23: Should order Z2103 & CTS7822
https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults


Have any of the R1b's been tested for L584 or L277 or CTS-7822 ?

thanx

Semargl link is not working for me for some reason? Albanian Clans/Tribes stretch in 5 countries in the Ballkans: North Albanian, Kosova, Montenegro, Macedonia, and Serbian. So for every test we are also including the location, and as much info as we can gather from them to confirm that they indeed do decent from the Clans they claim.

Kit N76544 is not added, I will check with the admin of the webpage, but most likely because his Clan is not confirmed. We are trying to include in this project only people that decent from the Northern Albanian Clans, but I am sure this will expand in the future if there are other Albanians that want to join.

What you see on that page is actually what we know so far of their y-dna and clades, hopefully they upgrade in the future.


cheers!

[Skerdilaidas]

J2b2* - Gashi i Gurit
E1b1b1a2* - Kelmendi

It seems that you are the Kelmendi example, according to your profile. Can you please tell us a bit more about yourself, where you come from, and a brotherhood if there is such, and if you could do the same for the Gashi example?

If you are not comfortable to post such info here, you can email the mod at the link I have provided, or you can pm me.

Thanks!

[Silesian]

Semargl link is not working for me for some reason? Albanian Clans/Tribes stretch in 5 countries in the Ballkans: North Albanian, Kosova, Montenegro, Macedonia, and Serbian. So for every test we are also including the location, and as much info as we can gather from them to confirm that they indeed do decent from the Clans they claim.

Kit N76544 is not added, I will check with the admin of the webpage, but most likely because his Clan is not confirmed. We are trying to include in this project only people that decent from the Northern Albanian Clans, but I am sure this will expand in the future if there are other Albanians that want to join.

What you see on that page is actually what we know so far of their y-dna and clades, hopefully they upgrade in the future.


cheers!

Fantastic news, a Sicilian (Arberesh) has just joined our R1b-CTS9219+ clan.
I have a feeling more Albanians will be joining our R1b clan.

84950-_b3a. R1b-L23: Z2103+ Z2105+ CTS7822+ and CTS9219+
https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

[Skerdilaidas]

Fantastic news, a Sicilian (Arberesh) has just joined our R1b-CTS9219+ clan.
I have a feeling more Albanians will be joining our R1b clan.

84950-_b3a. R1b-L23: Z2103+ Z2105+ CTS7822+ and CTS9219+
https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

I certainly will in the near future

[FBS]

Let me be more specific

J2b2* - Gashi i Gurit from highlands of Burim (ex Istog) they actually consider themselves Drenicak
E1b1b1a2* - Kelmendi - from Rugova

[Skerdilaidas]

Let me be more specific

J2b2* - Gashi i Gurit from highlands of Burim (ex Istog) they actually consider themselves Drenicak
E1b1b1a2* - Kelmendi - from Rugova

Thanks, brother! Istog is in the border but some villages of Istog fall into Drenica.

[Skerdilaidas]

New

Dibra clan, Dibra e Madhe, Macedonia: I1 L22

https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ection=results

[Skerdilaidas]

There is a new company that looks quite decent for testing with next generation illumina-based chip. Cheaper and more accurate on y-DNA, mtDNA, and they seem to have more population references then all other companies.The only down side for is that they are only offering services in USA for now, but I believe they will be expanding globally pretty soon: www.tribecode.com.

[noUseForAname]

I was born in Prishtina and will be doing DNA test soon.....

This is what we have so far for Albanians...

Region/Haplogroup	I1	I2*/I2a	I2b	R1a	R1b	G	J2	J*/J1	E-V13
Albania	2	12	1.5	9	16	1.5	19.5	2	27.5
Kosovo Albanians	5.5	2.5	0	4.5	21	0	16.5	0	47.5
Albanians (Macedonia)	1	9		1.5	18.8	1.6	21.9		39.1
Greece (Peloponnese)									47
Greece (South)	3	20		2.2	19.6	5.5			43.5
Greece (North)	2	12		19	14.6	5.2			35.4
Greece (Crete)		13		8.8	17		39		8.8
Greece (Thrace)		19		22	12		19		19
Greece (ethnic Greeks)		19		16	11.7	9	17		19
Macedonia (ethnic Slavic)	1	33	1.5	5.1	15.2	1.5			24.1
Bulgaria	4	20	2	17	11	5	11	3	23.5
Bosniaks	4	56	0	16	3	2	3.5	0.5	10
Bosnian Croats	0	71	2	12	2	1	1	0	9
Bosnian Serbs	2.5	31	2.5	13.5	6	1	8.5	0	22.5
Croatia	5.5	37	1	24	8.5	2	6	1	10
Serbia	8.5	33	0.5	16	8	2	8	0.5	18

As per Abanians it it looks like they have over 45% of E-V13 9,000 years OLD and which is thought to be born at the same area, south east Balkans.

My guess is R1b is Celtic and came with the Roman Empire to balkans or even before.
R1b migrated from north Mesopotamia 5,000 years ago and found home in west Europe Britain Ireland etc....but it could have even came to balkans before it went to west Europe....

As per Albanians these are some current scientific facts...

Y haplogroup E1b1b (E-M35) in the modern Balkan population is dominated by its sub-clade E1b1b1a (E-M78) and specifically by the most common European sub-clade of E-M78, E-V13.[68] The area in and around Albanian speaking regions has the highest known percentages E-V13 in the world, and it is thought that the majority of E-V13 in Europe and elsewhere descend from a common ancestor who lived in the Balkans in the late Mesolithic or Neolithic, and that men of this lineage began to spread outside the Balkans as early as the Neolithic, or even as recently as the Roman era.[68][69][70][71][72][73]

In contrast, another major discovery relevant to the study of E-V13 origins was the announcement in Lacan et al. (2011) that a 7000 year old skeleton in a Neolithic context in a Spanish funeral cave, was an E-V13 man. (The other specimens tested from the same site were in haplogroup G2a, which has been found in Neolithic contexts throughout Europe.) Using 7 STR markers, this specimen was identified as being similar to modern individuals tested in Albania, Bosnia, Greece, Corsica, and Provence. The authors therefore proposed that, whether or not the modern distribution of E-V13 of today is a result of more recent events, E-V13 was already in Europe within the Neolithic, carried by early farmers from the Eastern Mediterranean to the Western Mediterranean, much earlier than the Bronze age.
It appeared identical at the seven markers tested to five Albanian, two Bosnian, one Greek, one Italian, one Sicilian, two Corsican, and two Provence French samples and are thus placed on the same node of the E1b1b1a1b-V13 network as eastern, central, and western Mediterranean haplotypes (Fig. S1).

Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).
—Cruciani et al. (2007)

[kuqezi]

I was born in Prishtina and will be doing DNA test soon.....

This is what we have so far for Albanians...

Region/Haplogroup	I1	I2*/I2a	I2b	R1a	R1b	G	J2	J*/J1	E-V13
Albania	2	12	1.5	9	16	1.5	19.5	2	27.5
Kosovo Albanians	5.5	2.5	0	4.5	21	0	16.5	0	47.5
Albanians (Macedonia)	1	9		1.5	18.8	1.6	21.9		39.1
Greece (Peloponnese)									47
Greece (South)	3	20		2.2	19.6	5.5			43.5
Greece (North)	2	12		19	14.6	5.2			35.4
Greece (Crete)		13		8.8	17		39		8.8
Greece (Thrace)		19		22	12		19		19
Greece (ethnic Greeks)		19		16	11.7	9	17		19
Macedonia (ethnic Slavic)	1	33	1.5	5.1	15.2	1.5			24.1
Bulgaria	4	20	2	17	11	5	11	3	23.5
Bosniaks	4	56	0	16	3	2	3.5	0.5	10
Bosnian Croats	0	71	2	12	2	1	1	0	9
Bosnian Serbs	2.5	31	2.5	13.5	6	1	8.5	0	22.5
Croatia	5.5	37	1	24	8.5	2	6	1	10
Serbia	8.5	33	0.5	16	8	2	8	0.5	18

As per Abanians it it looks like they have over 45% of E-V13 9,000 years OLD and which is thought to be born at the same area, south east Balkans.

My guess is R1b is Celtic and came with the Roman Empire to balkans or even before.
R1b migrated from north Mesopotamia 5,000 years ago and found home in west Europe Britain Ireland etc....but it could have even came to balkans before it went to west Europe....

As per Albanians these are some current scientific facts...

What clan do you hail from?

[Skerdilaidas]

Most of the R1b that is found on Albanians is not "Celtic" nor did it come with Romans. R1b in the Balkans is pretty old.

[noUseForAname]

Most of the R1b that is found on Albanians is not "Celtic" nor did it come with Romans. R1b in the Balkans is pretty old.

Yes, as i have noted it could had came to the Balkans before it even went to the west. Actually it came to the balkans first because it couldn't reach the other way around to British isles Although R1b found a home on the current celtic areas for whatever reasons. Because they have the highest percentage.
From the map below it looks like it went to those balkans areas at least 5,000 years ago.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...1b_Y-DNA.shtml

[noUseForAname]

There is a new company that looks quite decent for testing with next generation illumina-based chip. Cheaper and more accurate on y-DNA, mtDNA, and they seem to have more population references then all other companies.The only down side for is that they are only offering services in USA for now, but I believe they will be expanding globally pretty soon: www.tribecode.com.

thanks for sharing this Skerdilaidas....how much accurate is tribecode?...has anyone used it?...will it give more detailed subclades?
am not sure if this one works here in Canada...

[Skerdilaidas]

thanks for sharing this Skerdilaidas....how much accurate is tribecode?...has anyone used it?...will it give more detailed subclades?
am not sure if this one works here in Canada...

No problem, mate. I have heard that they are more accurate then 23andme for sure on y-DNA/mtDNA, and also autosomally. You can't order it from Canada yet, because I have tried (I live in Canada too). Few people I know that have done 23andme and live in US, have ordered it, but they are still waiting to get their results. I will update this thread once they get them.

You mentioned that you come from Pristina. Are you from the city itself or municipality, and do you happen to know which clan you hail from?


BTW here is what their Ethnic Composition map looks like:

[Skerdilaidas]

[noUseForAname]

No problem, mate. I have heard that they are more accurate then 23andme for sure on y-DNA/mtDNA, and also autosomally. You can't order it from Canada yet, because I have tried (I live in Canada too). Few people I know that have done 23andme and live in US, have ordered it, but they are still waiting to get their results. I will update this thread once they get them.

You mentioned that you come from Pristina. Are you from the city itself or municipality, and do you happen to know which clan you hail from?


BTW here is what their Ethnic Composition map looks like:

Thanks for sharing this, i think https://www.familytreedna.com/ might be better (not so certain though), a buddy Maleth from Malta who is E-V13 strangely discovered through his surname that it came from Germanic region, but not to confuse this as he also noted that before E-V13 went to Germany it might have migrated from the south east Balkans were E-V13 is considered to have its roots for at least 7,000 years.

here is his explanation....http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...up-E1b1b/page2

Yes i was born in the city of Prishtina itself, but my father was born in Prizren. Dont know about the clan, pretty embarrassing though, but i will ask from my father....

the map showed does not look promising, spcially if we are talking about dna..... british isles are R1b same as basques and most France and Spain, Russia is R1a, pretty inaccurate for Italian peninsula taking the 20% European...they should take into account E-V13 which is much older than R1b in british Isles, R1b migrated there from area of todays Georgia and far north east todays Turkey to brtish isles around 4,000 years ago. And therefore Italian dna is pretty much mixed with r1b, I, and E-V13 (lowest percentages) which is found more on the very south and argued that it migrated there from south east Balkans.

[noUseForAname]

New

Dibra clan, Dibra e Madhe, Macedonia: I1 L22

https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ection=results

Skerdilaidas....

is there any chance we can gather all those tested from familytreedna.com here?

I would be interested to conduct a research paper in regards to y dna of Albanian speaking regions.

[Skerdilaidas]

Skerdilaidas....

is there any chance we can gather all those tested from familytreedna.com here?

I would be interested to conduct a research paper in regards to y dna of Albanian speaking regions.

What do you mean by "gather them here"? The member kuqezi is actually the moderator for the Albanian project at ftDNA, so he most likely can help with data. So far though on the OP link, we have only listed people that can confirm their Clan, but that could change in the future for instance on a bigger or whole Albanian project. Also, not all the examples were actually tested from ftDNA either, some are from 23andme and National Geographic.

That is actually what we are attempting to accomplish, but it might take a while since not many Albanians seem to interested on genetics.

[Skerdilaidas]

Thanks for sharing this, i think https://www.familytreedna.com/ might be better (not so certain though), a buddy Maleth from Malta who is E-V13 strangely discovered through his surname that it came from Germanic region, but not to confuse this as he also noted that before E-V13 went to Germany it might have migrated from the south east Balkans were E-V13 is considered to have its roots for at least 7,000 years.

here is his explanation....http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...up-E1b1b/page2

Yes i was born in the city of Prishtina itself, but my father was born in Prizren. Dont know about the clan, pretty embarrassing though, but i will ask from my father....

the map showed does not look promising, spcially if we are talking about dna..... british isles are R1b same as basques and most France and Spain, Russia is R1a, pretty inaccurate for Italian peninsula taking the 20% European...they should take into account E-V13 which is much older than R1b in british Isles, R1b migrated there from area of todays Georgia and far north east todays Turkey to brtish isles around 4,000 years ago. And therefore Italian dna is pretty much mixed with r1b, I, and E-V13 (lowest percentages) which is found more on the very south and argued that it migrated there from south east Balkans.

No problem. Yeah I agree, ftDNA is the best option, specifically if you want to trace your y-dna further down. However, for how much tribecode is charging, and if they turn out to be a lot more accurate then 23andme with their advanced technology (which most likely are), are certainly worth it.

The map I linked is just a sample of what your autosomal dna looks like at tribecode, so not really connected to y-dna's. The fella in that map most likely is somewhere from South America.

[Aaron1981]

R1b in Albania is from the Illyrians and linked to the steppe before arriving in central-East Europe during the metal ages. These men likely brought their version of IE language along with them. While E-V13 is the dominant haplogroup among men in the Balkans, there is no way in hell these individuals spoke PIE in any form.

Bold statements eh? But likely true.

[Skerdilaidas]

R1b in Albania is from the Illyrians and linked to the steppe before arriving in central-East Europe during the metal ages. These men likely brought their version of IE language along with them. While E-V13 is the dominant haplogroup among men in the Balkans, there is no way in hell these individuals spoke PIE in any form.

Bold statements eh? But likely true.

Yeah most likely true. But Illyrians too were probably more diverse in y-dna, rather then just R1b. Illyrians settled in Central Europe for bit before they descended down into Balkans, so they most definitely had R1b (that was re-enforced in Balkans) but also some clades of I.

[noUseForAname]

What do you mean by "gather them here"? The member kuqezi is actually the moderator for the Albanian project at ftDNA, so he most likely can help with data. So far though on the OP link, we have only listed people that can confirm their Clan, but that could change in the future for instance on a bigger or whole Albanian project. Also, not all the examples were actually tested from ftDNA either, some are from 23andme and National Geographic.

That is actually what we are attempting to accomplish, but it might take a while since not many Albanians seem to interested on genetics.

There are couple of scientific papers done and therefore it came up with the table i have showed in regards to dna by ethnicity.

I meant how can we find all those Albanians from those scientific papers and familytreedna and 23andme, and have all their details described here, like their region or their Clan....then when more people would join we might have a much bigger sample, and therefore i can start conducting a new research papers.

if you go to this website below you will find samples from Albanians and the research papers...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...attaglia2008-9

one is Bataglia 2008, Pericic 2005, etc...