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Thread: Was E1b1 very first inhabitants in Europe 42,000 YPD?...or Saami U5 haplogroup?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Oh, for goodness sakes, I've never heard such special pleading. You think it's a coincidence that there are all those hot spots of E-V13 in and around Greece and the Balkans?



    We also have an E-V13 in Avellaner Cave in northeast Spain (Catalonia) in a Neolithic setting from 5,000 BC.
    Marie Lacan et al from 2011:
    http://www.pnas.org/content/108/45/18255.full

    E-V13 and J2 were part of the Neolithic farmer migrations, ok? We don't know if M78, for example, reached Europe in the Mesolithic. It's possible, as it's probably old enough. We just don't know. We have an absolute dearth of Mesolithic and even Neolithic samples from southern Italy, Greece, the islands, etc.

    In the latest phylogeny of "E", Trombetta and Cruciani et al , before these dna results were even released, hypothesized specifically that the E-V13 mutation took place in Europe.
    http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/conten....full.pdf+html

    This is their estimate of it's TMRCA8.1kya '95% CI 5.6-10.8kya)
    I'd say that's about spot on.

    It also had to be pointed out to you that one of the tested Pharaoh mummies, that of Ramses III, was indeed "E"; in fact he was E1b1a.

    I think you have some reading to do before you start arguing your points so vehemently and arrogantly.
    Trombetta study was done using DNA from living people, in modern times. They were using blood and swap samples. They were using living people. The claim is that E-V13 must have happened in Europe/Eurasia because E-V13 is rare in Africa. Possible but what if E-V13 developed in a part of Africa and moved to Europe because the population was displaced?

    Ramesses 3 lived in 1155 BC and was not related to Ramesses the first or second. He existed in post-Neolothic times, over 1900 years after the founding of the Dynastic Egypt.

    Egyptians were subjugating and displacing Africans for thousands of years by that time.

  2. #27
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    -please delete this -

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Trombetta and Cruciani published their paper before the release of the Nagy paper showing through ancient DNA that, in fact, a definite E-M78 and a possible E-V13 had already made their way into the Lengyel and Sopot cultures by 4700 BC, which is at the transition from the Middle to Late Neolithic, not the Bronze Age. Obviously, that is an expansion from further south or south/east, unless you think they were helicoptered into those areas, or you indeed think they were already there in the Mesolithic.

    You are coming dangerously close to posting deliberately obfuscating and misleading posts. Y DNA "E" and YDNA J2, for that matter, were in Europe in the NEOLITHIC.

    Is it clear?
    When did possible become certain? Lets stick to the facts...

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    When did possible become certain? Lets stick to the facts...
    It became certain and a FACT the day that samples from ancient bodies in a Neolithic context dated to 6800 BC* came out Y DNA J2 and E. Is that simple enough?

    *6800 to 7000 years ago.
    Last edited by Angela; 04-07-15 at 14:49. Reason: to correct date


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  5. #30
    Regular Member Ike's Avatar
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    Ok, so possible E-V13 is now a certain E-V13. Gottcha.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It became certain and a FACT the day that samples from ancient bodies in a Neolithic context dated to 6800 BC came out Y DNA J2 and E. Is that simple enough?
    Weren't the 3 bodies from those 2 studies from 5000-3000 BC?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Natgeno3? next generation out on the 15th of October 2015
    Where did u get that info or do u have a source? I'm looking forward to this update of the geno chip as the current version is outdated, but haven't heard anything concrete...

  8. #33
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    Where did u get that info or do u have a source? I'm looking forward to this update of the geno chip as the current version is outdated, but haven't heard anything concrete...
    its called

    Introducing Geno 2.0 Next Generation - A Revolutionary Breakthrough


    Will be available only in USA from October 2015 and early 2016 elsewhere. Price is just under $200US not inc freight

    Geno 2.0 was 150K AIMs and the Geno 2.0 Next Gen is 750K SNP @$199,

    http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/n...25&gsk&MR21280
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    its called

    Introducing Geno 2.0 Next Generation - A Revolutionary Breakthrough


    Will be available only in USA from October 2015 and early 2016 elsewhere. Price is just under $200US not inc freight

    Geno 2.0 was 150K AIMs and the Geno 2.0 Next Gen is 750K SNP @$199,

    http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/n...25&gsk&MR21280
    Thanks, but that's still NatGeo Geno 2.0 which has been available since 2012 and it still can be ordered. I thought you were talking about NatGeo Geno 3.0

    Either way I hope that the next Geno chip (Geno 3.0 or whatever they call it) is on the way. Hopefully the October 2015 date turns out to be correct :)

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    Weren't the 3 bodies from those 2 studies from 5000-3000 BC?
    Nagy provides dates on p. 59 of her dissertation.
    http://d-nb.info/1072530740/34

    Sopot Culture-5,000 to 4800 cal BC

    Lengyel Culture-5,000 to 4300 cal BC

    Therefore, the post should have said 6800 years ago (or 7,000 years ago), not 6800 BC. I will edit the post.

  11. #36
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    Thanks, but that's still NatGeo Geno 2.0 which has been available since 2012 and it still can be ordered. I thought you were talking about NatGeo Geno 3.0

    Either way I hope that the next Geno chip (Geno 3.0 or whatever they call it) is on the way. Hopefully the October 2015 date turns out to be correct :)
    call it version 3 or next gen matters little , they give you results for all your positive and all your negative SNP, they do not only supply you with positive SNP results like all other testers.

    i still do not need to test a new snp found for the last year ........., i just check my natgeno2 results and then advise ftdna in writing, that i was already tested positive or negative for that snp and since i have already transferred results to ftdna , please update ftdna...........which they do , they have no choice.

    so from the old 150k SNP to 750k SNP ................it is big

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