Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: Was E1b1 very first inhabitants in Europe 42,000 YPD?...or Saami U5 haplogroup?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    26-08-14
    Posts
    238

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-Z2705

    Country: Canada



    Was E1b1 very first inhabitants in Europe 42,000 YPD?...or Saami U5 haplogroup?

    Does that mean that they were the very first inhabitants in Europe?

    Where haplogroup K (already in Europe) 39,000 YPD

    Or even Saami People haplogroup U5 (25,000 years ago, or as early was 50,000 years ago)?

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    17-03-15
    Posts
    75


    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by noUseForAname View Post
    Does that mean that they were the very first inhabitants in Europe?

    Where haplogroup K (already in Europe) 39,000 YPD

    Or even Saami People haplogroup U5 (25,000 years ago, or as early was 50,000 years ago)?
    I believe one of them must of been so.

  3. #3
    Regular Member PaschalisB's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-01-12
    Location
    Athens
    Posts
    135

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-CTS9320
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b

    Ethnic group
    Greek
    Country: Greece



    The mtDNA haplogroup U5 was most likely the first to arrive in Europe.
    As for yDNA it could have been C.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    26-04-15
    Posts
    44


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by noUseForAname View Post
    Does that mean that they were the very first inhabitants in Europe?

    Where haplogroup K (already in Europe) 39,000 YPD

    Or even Saami People haplogroup U5 (25,000 years ago, or as early was 50,000 years ago)?
    Doubt it. E haplogroup is descended from DE. It's cousins are in South/East Asian Islands outside of Africa. E is descended from South Asian invaders. The mtdna haplogroup M is found alongside them. Ther only place in Africa where M is found is in the horn of Africa and then it gets more common in the middle east where it disappears into the ocean islands. E did not come from Europe.

    Most E haplogroup males mated with mtdna L haplogroup females in Africa. The only places where E is dominant is Africa. E1b1b is found in greatest concentrations in North Africa and coastal Africa. E1b1b is reaches its highest concentration in Europe within Kosovo at 47% of the population. Then its Greece 30% of the population. Then the concentration drops off. The further North you go into Europe, the lower the concentrations.

    E1b1b is the only type E haplogroup found among Caucasoid populations. The highest concentrations in sub-Saharan Africa are among sub-Saharan Berbers, Cushitic Somalis, Tuaregs, Oromo, Sudanese.

    In Africa you will also find Eurasian R, J haplogroups mated to L haplogroup females in some places.

    There was some cultural exchange in North Africa where E1b1b males survived I, J, K Eurasian males and possibly were scattered into Europe.

    For all we know E1b1b males in Europe could be descendents of ancient slaves shipped to Europe. The Egyptians were notorious for enslaving Africans. E1b1b could be descended from African males who survived Eurasian civilizations.

  5. #5
    Earl Maleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-14
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,919

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    EV13 A7136 y18675G+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Malta



    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    E did not come from Europe.
    I have never came across anyone claiming that E comes from Europe, and probably none of the all the other haplogroups. The original E is split into some 40 branches with different timelines and time spans and events. It is probable that all haplogroups made an entrance into Europe from the East. Maybe some subclades made an entrance from North Africa.

    E1b1b is the only type E haplogroup found among Caucasoid populations. The highest concentrations in sub-Saharan Africa are among sub-Saharan Berbers, Cushitic Somalis, Tuaregs, Oromo, Sudanese.
    It has to be the only type as E1b1b covers ALL the E types found around the world probably mutated in Paleolithic times. I think what you mean is M78 to Z919 to L618 to V13 all the rest are hardly found in Europe.

    There was some cultural exchange in North Africa where E1b1b males survived I, J, K Eurasian males and possibly were scattered into Europe.
    I presume you mean E-M81 (found amoungst North African Berbers) who have a different time frame and migration routes to other E subclades.

    For all we know E1b1b males in Europe could be descendents of ancient slaves shipped to Europe. The Egyptians were notorious for enslaving Africans. E1b1b could be descended from African males who survived Eurasian civilizations.
    Sub clades such as E-V13 were found in Europe way before the classical Egyptian era or any slave trade we know of. Besides some of the earliest Pharoes are known to be from the E haplogroup. I dont think they were slaves ... so who were these Notorious Egyptians? E-M78 (which is thought to have been mutated in the area) has been present in Egypt thousands of years before the first pyramids were built and its much more probable that these people were E-folks themselves. You need to know history and get familiar with time frames and possible mutations to be able to compare ;)

  6. #6
    Regular Member khufu's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-02-14
    Posts
    39

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    z830
    MtDNA haplogroup
    R0a

    Country: Egypt



    The big question is

    how mtdna u come in africa before 20.000 years :)

    Who will not answer you why there are negrois in South Asia becous they not E or D

    not answar you with who come mtdna u to africa before 20.000 years

  7. #7
    Regular Member khufu's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-02-14
    Posts
    39

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    z830
    MtDNA haplogroup
    R0a

    Country: Egypt



    the proplem of haplogroup E With tyrants
    Who belong to haplogroup E

    teams of haplogroup E


    They're a group of slaves some arabs and some jews who I will make them pick cotton in my farm This is the place they deserve

    If this team slaves continued his work It will our haplogroup remain at the bottom

    Are there scientists from e1b1b ?

    only people out e1b1b help e1b1b people
    Anyone who wants to work this team stands against him

    We have smart more than Einstein and bravest warriors of Napoleon and Hitler and ramsis

    We are special in this world

    But we have traitors and agents They have agendas against somtime i think thise people not m35 and im sure people out m35 help m35 more than thise people

    Ten years on this case

    You must build a new team does not have innervated and not be slaves like them

    Do not blame other

    Clean your house first

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    26-04-15
    Posts
    44


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    I have never came across anyone claiming that E comes from Europe, and probably none of the all the other haplogroups. The original E is split into some 40 branches with different timelines and time spans and events. It is probable that all haplogroups made an entrance into Europe from the East. Maybe some subclades made an entrance from North Africa.



    It has to be the only type as E1b1b covers ALL the E types found around the world probably mutated in Paleolithic times. I think what you mean is M78 to Z919 to L618 to V13 all the rest are hardly found in Europe.



    I presume you mean E-M81 (found amoungst North African Berbers) who have a different time frame and migration routes to other E subclades.



    Sub clades such as E-V13 were found in Europe way before the classical Egyptian era or any slave trade we know of. Besides some of the earliest Pharoes are known to be from the E haplogroup. I dont think they were slaves ... so who were these Notorious Egyptians? E-M78 (which is thought to have been mutated in the area) has been present in Egypt thousands of years before the first pyramids were built and its much more probable that these people were E-folks themselves. You need to know history and get familiar with time frames and possible mutations to be able to compare ;)
    E's were rare deep into Eurasia. If not, non-existent.

    Haplogroup E belongs to haplogroup DE. They are characterized by their YAP mutation. They're Yap+. The only yap+ haplogroup found in Asia is D, which is found in Tibet. amongst the Ainu, and pygmies in the Andaman Islands. E's are dominant in sub-Saharan Africa and found in a minority of Southern Europeans and people in the Middle East.


    The spread of the E haplogroup around the world has been through sub-Saharan African blacks that were taken to the Americas.

    I'm not aware of any early pharaoh with an E haplogroup y-chromosome.

  9. #9
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,260


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    E's were rare deep into Eurasia. If not, non-existent.

    Haplogroup E belongs to haplogroup DE. They are characterized by their YAP mutation. They're Yap+. The only yap+ haplogroup found in Asia is D, which is found in Tibet. amongst the Ainu, and pygmies in the Andaman Islands. E's are dominant in sub-Saharan Africa and found in a minority of Southern Europeans and people in the Middle East.


    The spread of the E haplogroup around the world has been through sub-Saharan African blacks that were taken to the Americas.

    I'm not aware of any early pharaoh with an E haplogroup y-chromosome.

    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...plogroup-E1b1a

    As you can see he was actually E1b1a, the SSA group.

    We now know that E1b1b1a (E-M78 and perhaps E-V13) were already in the Carpathian Basin (think Hungary) by 4700 BC, and no, they didn't just "stay for a while". They've been in Europe for about 7,000 years.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    26-04-15
    Posts
    44


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...plogroup-E1b1a

    As you can see he was actually E1b1a, the SSA group.

    We now know that E1b1b1a (E-M78 and perhaps E-V13) were already in the Carpathian Basin (think Hungary) by 4700 BC, and no, they didn't just "stay for a while". They've been in Europe for about 7,000 years.
    E's were not found all over the world in ancient times. They were pretty much just in Africa with some leaking into western Asia around 5,000 BC. They were not in Asia before that.

    There were 2 bodies found in 2 small areas in the basin that were dated to 5000-3000 years ago. It's impossible to say under what circumstances they arrived there but they showed up alongside populations that may have originated in the Middle East.


    They were not in Europe before 4900-3000 BC.

    E haplogroups have had an extreme minority presence for thousands of years but it's been a minor presence. They were not the original inhabitants of Europe.

    The Yap+ y-chromosomes likely originated among Indian Ocean Islanders or people that left Africa but stuck to the coast of Asia, avoiding the mainland. Yap+ y-chromosomes are near non-existent in Asia with only D having a presence in Tibet.

    The ancestors of the E-chromosome peoples were likely tropical and aquatic. They may have had canoes. They may have interacted with the ancestors of Polynesians and Australoids. The y-chromosome of E-haplogroup men is closer to those of Andaman Island pygmies and Ainu than those of mainland Eurasians.

    49,000 years ago, the ancestors of E-haplogroup men could have been racing the ancestors of Australian aborigines and Polynesians on canoes towards Japan and Australia but then turned back towards Africa.

  11. #11
    Earl Maleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-14
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,919

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    EV13 A7136 y18675G+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Malta



    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    E's were not found all over the world in ancient times. They were pretty much just in Africa with some leaking into western Asia around 5,000 BC. They were not in Asia before that.

    There were 2 bodies found in 2 small areas in the basin that were dated to 5000-3000 years ago. It's impossible to say under what circumstances they arrived there but they showed up alongside populations that may have originated in the Middle East.


    They were not in Europe before 4900-3000 BC.
    Dont forget already a 7000 year old skeleton was found in North West Spain.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    26-04-15
    Posts
    44


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Dont forget already a 7000 year old skeleton was found in North West Spain.
    Do you have a link?

  13. #13
    Earl Maleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-14
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,919

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    EV13 A7136 y18675G+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Malta



    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    Do you have a link?
    whereas the Y-chromosomal analyses permitted confirmation of the existence in Spain approximately 7,000 y ago of two haplogroups previously associated with the Neolithic transition: G2a and E1b1b1a1b.

    http://www.pnas.org/content/108/45/18255.full

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    26-04-15
    Posts
    44


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    whereas the Y-chromosomal analyses permitted confirmation of the existence in Spain approximately 7,000 y ago of two haplogroups previously associated with the Neolithic transition: G2a and E1b1b1a1b.

    http://www.pnas.org/content/108/45/18255.full
    27 specimens. Only 7 could be identified. 6 males, 1 female.

    1 out of the males was e. 5 of the males were G.

    Again, a sample from around the same time period as the Carpathian Basin skeletons show that G's are dominant in Europe.


    This E seems to be a member of a minority.

  15. #15
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,295

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    27 specimens. Only 7 could be identified. 6 males, 1 female.

    1 out of the males was e. 5 of the males were G.

    Again, a sample from around the same time period as the Carpathian Basin skeletons show that G's are dominant in Europe.


    This E seems to be a member of a minority.
    Perhaps the same way as G is minority now in Europe, though it used to be so dominant. Proportions of haplogroups change from millennium to millennium.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  16. #16
    Earl Maleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-14
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,919

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    EV13 A7136 y18675G+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Malta



    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    27 specimens. Only 7 could be identified. 6 males, 1 female.

    1 out of the males was e. 5 of the males were G.

    Again, a sample from around the same time period as the Carpathian Basin skeletons show that G's are dominant in Europe.
    This is what you just stated a few minutes ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    E's were not found all over the world in ancient times. They were pretty much just in Africa with some leaking into western Asia around 5,000 BC. They were not in Asia before that.

    This E seems to be a member of a minority.[/QUOTE]

    In fact they were in Europe around 5,000 BC. You dont seem to be well updated and informed (saying that with respect) but yet you post around like a confident professional which makes your arguments uncredibable anyway with your ballistic statements, or otherwise an obvious agenda of some sort

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    26-04-15
    Posts
    44


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Perhaps the same way as G is minority now in Europe, though it used to be so dominant. Proportions of haplogroups change from millennium to millennium.
    All these studies point to G haplogroup males being in Europe a long time before E1b1b's and others showed up. The E1b1b skeleton was found among G haplogroup males. G's were the majority.

    For all we know this E1b1b male was a refugee or someone who migrated from North Africa after Eurasians had already established settlements in North Africa. Could have arrived there via a trade route, caravan.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    26-04-15
    Posts
    44


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    This is what you just stated a few minutes ago.




    This E seems to be a member of a minority.
    In fact they were in Europe around 5,000 BC. You dont seem to be well updated and informed (saying that with respect) but yet you post around like a confident professional which makes your arguments uncredibable anyway with your ballistic statements, or otherwise an obvious agenda of some sort
    The body was dated to around 5000-4000 BC. 1 body amongst several. 5 out of the 6 male bodies genetically screened belong to the G haplogroup.

    We got look back at the rest of the world at the time. Neolithic Revolution begins around 10000 BC in Asia. The Eurasians have domesticated animals and crops. They're moving around. They're building things. They eventually take Eurasian crops and animals into North Africa.

    Could have Eurasian expansion forced groups native to Africa to move? The E1b1b males don't see to be in Europe before or at the beginning of the Neolithic. We have evidence that they got there later.

  19. #19
    Advisor LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,295

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    All these studies point to G haplogroup males being in Europe a long time before E1b1b's and others showed up. The E1b1b skeleton was found among G haplogroup males. G's were the majority.
    and E could have been their minority for a very long time.
    For all we know this E1b1b male was a refugee or someone who migrated from North Africa after Eurasians had already established settlements in North Africa. Could have arrived there via a trade route, caravan.
    Let's look at it as one of possibilities, and not the truth.

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    26-04-15
    Posts
    44


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    and E could have been their minority for a very long time.
    Let's look at it as one of possibilities, and not the truth.
    The truth is that none of the studies show E1b1b being present prior to the Neolithic or in the early Neolithic. At the Carpathian site, the E1b1b remains were found at 2 sites among other foreign y-haplogroups. They were not evenly distributed in the region. At the Spanish site, the E1b1b skeleton was found among 5 other males that belonged to G.

    There is no evidence of them being present in the early Neolithic or before the Neolithic.

  21. #21
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,260


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
    All these studies point to G haplogroup males being in Europe a long time before E1b1b's and others showed up. The E1b1b skeleton was found among G haplogroup males. G's were the majority.

    For all we know this E1b1b male was a refugee or someone who migrated from North Africa after Eurasians had already established settlements in North Africa. Could have arrived there via a trade route, caravan.
    Oh, for goodness sakes, I've never heard such special pleading. You think it's a coincidence that there are all those hot spots of E-V13 in and around Greece and the Balkans?



    We also have an E-V13 in Avellaner Cave in northeast Spain (Catalonia) in a Neolithic setting from 5,000 BC.
    Marie Lacan et al from 2011:
    http://www.pnas.org/content/108/45/18255.full

    E-V13 and J2 were part of the Neolithic farmer migrations, ok? We don't know if M78, for example, reached Europe in the Mesolithic. It's possible, as it's probably old enough. We just don't know. We have an absolute dearth of Mesolithic and even Neolithic samples from southern Italy, Greece, the islands, etc.

    In the latest phylogeny of "E", Trombetta and Cruciani et al , before these dna results were even released, hypothesized specifically that the E-V13 mutation took place in Europe.
    http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/conten....full.pdf+html

    This is their estimate of it's TMRCA8.1kya '95% CI 5.6-10.8kya)
    I'd say that's about spot on.

    It also had to be pointed out to you that one of the tested Pharaoh mummies, that of Ramses III, was indeed "E"; in fact he was E1b1a.

    I think you have some reading to do before you start arguing your points so vehemently and arrogantly.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Oh, for goodness sakes, I've never heard such special pleading. You think it's a coincidence that there are all those hot spots of E-V13 in and around Greece and the Balkans?



    We also have an E-V13 in Avellaner Cave in northeast Spain (Catalonia) in a Neolithic setting from 5,000 BC.
    Marie Lacan et al from 2011:
    http://www.pnas.org/content/108/45/18255.full

    E-V13 and J2 were part of the Neolithic farmer migrations, ok? We don't know if M78, for example, reached Europe in the Mesolithic. It's possible, as it's probably old enough. We just don't know. We have an absolute dearth of Mesolithic and even Neolithic samples from southern Italy, Greece, the islands, etc.

    In the latest phylogeny of "E", Trombetta and Cruciani et al , before these dna results were even released, hypothesized specifically that the E-V13 mutation took place in Europe.
    http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/conten....full.pdf+html

    This is their estimate of it's TMRCA8.1kya '95% CI 5.6-10.8kya)
    I'd say that's about spot on.

    It also had to be pointed out to you that one of the tested Pharaoh mummies, that of Ramses III, was indeed "E"; in fact he was E1b1a.

    I think you have some reading to do before you start arguing your points so vehemently and arrogantly.
    According to Trombetta et al, 2015, page 13:

    The TMRCA of E-V13 chromosomes (8.1kya;95% CI 5.6-10.8 kya) is consistent with a previous hypothesis about a post- Neolithic expansion of this haplogroup in Europe (Cruciani et al 2004; 2007).


    It is consistent with Cruciani et al, 2007, Trombetta et al. say that it is consistent.

    Cruciani et al, 2007:

    The low E-V13 frequency (0.9%) and microsatellite variance (0.13) in northern Africa do not support an antiquity greater than in western Asia. Thus, the most parsimonious and plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in western Asia about 11 ky ago, and its presence in northern Africa is the result of a more recent introgression. Under this hypothesis, E-V13 chromosomes sampled in western Asia and their coalescence estimate detect a likely Paleolithic exit out of Africa of E-M78 chromosomes devoid of the V13 mutation, which later occurred somewhere in the Near East/Anatolia.
    ...

    Post neolithic expansion is not 42,000YPD. Which proofs the setter of thread give for 42,000YPD. No one. It is contrary to whole knowledge.

    The thread is meaningless.

  23. #23
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,260


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    According to Trombetta et al, 2015, page 13:

    The TMRCA of E-V13 chromosomes (8.1kya;95% CI 5.6-10.8 kya) is consistent with a previous hypothesis about a post- Neolithic expansion of this haplogroup in Europe (Cruciani et al 2004; 2007).


    It is consistent with Cruciani et al, 2007, Trombetta et al. say that it is consistent.

    Cruciani et al, 2007:

    The low E-V13 frequency (0.9%) and microsatellite variance (0.13) in northern Africa do not support an antiquity greater than in western Asia. Thus, the most parsimonious and plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in western Asia about 11 ky ago, and its presence in northern Africa is the result of a more recent introgression. Under this hypothesis, E-V13 chromosomes sampled in western Asia and their coalescence estimate detect a likely Paleolithic exit out of Africa of E-M78 chromosomes devoid of the V13 mutation, which later occurred somewhere in the Near East/Anatolia.
    ...

    Post neolithic expansion is not 42,000YPD. Which proofs the setter of thread give for 42,000YPD. No one. It is contrary to whole knowledge.

    The thread is meaningless.

    Trombetta and Cruciani published their paper before the release of the Nagy paper showing through ancient DNA that, in fact, a definite E-M78 and a possible E-V13 had already made their way into the Lengyel and Sopot cultures by 4700 BC, which is at the transition from the Middle to Late Neolithic, not the Bronze Age. Obviously, that is an expansion from further south or south/east, unless you think they were helicoptered into those areas, or you indeed think they were already there in the Mesolithic.

    You are coming dangerously close to posting deliberately obfuscating and misleading posts. Y DNA "E" and YDNA J2, for that matter, were in Europe in the NEOLITHIC.

    Is it clear?

    In addition, the location of E-M78 and E-V13 in areas that are very close to current hotspots for E-V13 is very suggestive indeed, to say the least.

    Like it or lump it, whether it's what was taught in Serbian schools or not, those are the facts.

    It's true, however, that there is no proof that yDna "E" was in Europe in the Mesolithic, much less 42,000 years ago, although E-M78 is just barely old enough to have possibly made it into Europe by around 22,000 BC. If we ever get remains from the Greek Islands in the Mesolithic, for example, or Crete, say, or the Dodecanese from that period, it will be very interesting to see what turns up.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603


    Country: Serbia



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Trombetta and Cruciani published their paper before the release of the Nagy paper showing through ancient DNA that, in fact, a definite E-M78 and a possible E-V13 had already made their way into the Lengyel and Sopot cultures by 4700 BC, which is at the transition from the Middle to Late Neolithic, not the Bronze Age. Obviously, that is an expansion from further south or south/east, unless you think they were helicoptered into those areas, or you indeed think they were already there in the Mesolithic.

    You are coming dangerously close to posting deliberately obfuscating and misleading posts. Y DNA "E" and YDNA J2, for that matter, were in Europe in the NEOLITHIC.

    Is it clear?

    In addition, the location of E-M78 and E-V13 in areas that are very close to current hotspots for E-V13 is very suggestive indeed, to say the least.

    Like it or lump it, whether it's what was taught in Serbian schools or not, those are the facts.

    It's true, however, that there is no proof that yDna "E" was in Europe in the Mesolithic, much less 42,000 years ago, although E-M78 is just barely old enough to have possibly made it into Europe by around 22,000 BC. If we ever get remains from the Greek Islands in the Mesolithic, for example, or Crete, say, or the Dodecanese from that period, it will be very interesting to see what turns up.
    Angela, you can see from my older messages that I didn't accept that E-V13 came via Gibraltar, or by sea from Lybia (and I mostly don't accept sea paths in very old times). And it is logical that E-V13 found in middle Europe in the time 5,000-3,400 BC (Lengyel culture). But what this do with the thread and 42,000 years ago?

    My opinion always is that E-V13 arrived from Near East/minor Asia, and I wrote about it more time.

    And National Geographic thinks so:


  25. #25
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-09-11
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5,117

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a1 ..Pannoni

    Ethnic group
    North Alpine Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Angela, you can see from my older messages that I didn't accept that E-V13 came via Gibraltar, or by sea from Lybia (and I mostly don't accept sea paths in very old times). And it is logical that E-V13 found in middle Europe in the time 5,000-3,400 BC (Lengyel culture). But what this do with the thread and 42,000 years ago?

    My opinion always is that E-V13 arrived from Near East/minor Asia, and I wrote about it more time.

    And National Geographic thinks so:

    Natgeno3? next generation out on the 15th of October 2015
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •