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View Poll Results: LGM refugium of origin for I2? What say you?!

Voters
34. You may not vote on this poll
  • Franco-Iberian refuge

    8 23.53%
  • Italian peninsula

    5 14.71%
  • lower Rhone

    4 11.76%
  • Balkan peninsula

    18 52.94%
  • Ukrainian LGM refuge (north/northwest Black Sea shoreline region)

    9 26.47%
  • Anatolia

    2 5.88%
  • (North) Caucasus

    3 8.82%
  • Other -- please articulate

    2 5.88%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 26 to 28 of 28

Thread: The Official "I2 LGM refugium of origin" poll -- Let the debate begin !

  1. #26
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    Y-I2 is old in Europe and I think its ancestors were there before LGM, already among Gravettians, maybe rather between Central Europe and Eastern Europe more than in Western Europe without exclusion nevertheless. So more than a refugium can be supposed. If I had a preference I would say Balkans as a stronghold but without exclusivity. I think it could have been pushed (rather westwards and northwards) and displaced by Neolithic advance before being incorporated into agricultural groups; it's possible I2a1a ancestors arrived lately enough in Sardigna, from East Adriatic shores? the I2a1 of N-E Spain are maybe oldest there.. The Y-I2a1b ancestors I believe stayed for a while in mountainous refugia of Western Balkans and Carpathians; Y-I2a2 ancestors could have been settled more Central or East before recolonization of Northern lands; some could have chozen local mountainous refugia in front of farmers advance before partial assimilation. I have not definitive thoughts in fact; I believe a big part of Y-I2a2 groups - after some time of isolation from Farmers - were involved in proto-historic moves linked to metals on different directions. I'm not sure the today distribution of I2a2 in Northern Europe and the Isles is too old even if someones could have climbed northwards long ago. All guesses as often.

  2. #27
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    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    TMRCA of I2 is 22.000 years but it has not been found in paleolithic Europe, it was only found after spread of the Villabruna clade into Europe 14 ka

    I guess their refuge was the caves west of Antalya (Carain, Belba├ži, ...) during LGM and they learned about microliths and archery from the Boncuklu people (Konya area)

  3. #28
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5a

    Ethnic group
    Swiss
    Country: Switzerland



    Pointless ? just one I2c tribe in northcaucasia, can be at the origin of everything that people on eupedia is in search for ( pre-proto-indo-european, maykop signal... ) You are so focusing on gold and let silver in the hole... When R1b is found in pontic-steppe its the ANE signal, when CHG has being theorized, well R1b suddenly came from transcaucasia or iran, blabla... The details is the most important, we found some unusual mtdna haplogroups in maykop, so maybe, we gonna found some unusual y-dna haplogroups too. Like we found for exemple I2c around the caucasus and in Iran, G1 in eurasian steppe, iran, even on mongolia, in modern days. What are their signal ? For what are they match, in case of population mouvement, or cultural horizon ?

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