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Thread: Haplogroup C

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Haplogroup C

    Hello all. I am new here, so first up, greetings!

    I have had my genetic makeup mapped by Nat.Geo. and FDNA, and they gave my Y-DNA as C-F3393 and C-V222 respectively. I have not found any discussion of the C group on this site (maybe I didn't look well enough?) and would be very interested to learn what I can about this haplogroup, if anyone has any insights to share.

    Thanks and regards

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-M269*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1a19

    Ethnic group
    Turkish
    Country: Turkey



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Welcome aboard!

    That's very interesting. Is your paternal grandfather originally from Turkey/Anatolia ?

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    Thank you Icebreaker for the welcome !

    No, no known Turkish origins. Being partly Greek might of course introduce some Anatolian DNA into the mix, but nothing within several generations of recorded family history. My great great (great x 3?) grandfather on my father's side was definitely from Ithaka in north western Greece, from where he was involved in fighting the Turks in northern mainland Greece, and the family name is clearly not of Turkish origin either. My feeling is that any Turkic blood, which of course could easily be present in that part of the world, is unlikely to be in the main Y-DNA line of my father simply due to the Turkish occupation, at least in the last couple of hundred years. My overall genetic make-up seems to closely fit a Greek milieu, but I understand C is not common in the region, which leaves me perplexed and looking to know more about C. This haplogroup (C-M130) does seem to have a high incidence in North or Central Asia, but doesn't feature in Turkey. So I am wondering how great (etc) grand daddy got to be Greek!


    Quote Originally Posted by Icebreaker View Post
    Welcome aboard!

    That's very interesting. Is your paternal grandfather originally from Turkey/Anatolia ?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    V222 is the SNP of interest, it is much more specific than F3393.

    C-V222 is a subclade of C-V20, which is known to be a very ancient European clade, not an Asian one like most of the rest of C (itself an extremely ancient haplogroup). The discussion of C-V20 on this forum has mainly dealt with it being found in Mesolithic Spain, in a sample known as La Brana 1. That is, it has been proven to be an ancient European clade, much like Haplogroup I, and some here have speculated it to be even more ancient to Europe than Haplogroup I.

    Nowadays, C-V20 is very rare, but it is generally acknowledged as a key to understanding the earliest Y-lines in Europe. It is, along with I2 and F2, one of the only 3 haplogroups yet to have been found in Mesolithic Europe.

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    F2 has been found in a sample from Mesolithic Europe?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Haired14 View Post
    F2 has been found in a sample from Mesolithic Europe?
    Sorta yeah, Ajvide 70 (Mesolithic/Neolithic cusp sample from Sweden) tested as F2. Of course, it's possible that the call for the terminal SNP was a false positive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Sorta yeah, Ajvide 70 (Mesolithic/Neolithic cusp sample from Sweden) tested as F2. Of course, it's possible that the call for the terminal SNP was a false positive.
    Mesolithic/Neolithic : what is the context of this indivuidual?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    V222 is the SNP of interest, it is much more specific than F3393.

    C-V222 is a subclade of C-V20, which is known to be a very ancient European clade, not an Asian one like most of the rest of C (itself an extremely ancient haplogroup). The discussion of C-V20 on this forum has mainly dealt with it being found in Mesolithic Spain, in a sample known as La Brana 1. That is, it has been proven to be an ancient European clade, much like Haplogroup I, and some here have speculated it to be even more ancient to Europe than Haplogroup I.

    Nowadays, C-V20 is very rare, but it is generally acknowledged as a key to understanding the earliest Y-lines in Europe. It is, along with I2 and F2, one of the only 3 haplogroups yet to have been found in Mesolithic Europe.
    C-M8 is a brother clade to the C-V20 clade
    C-V20 is European and C-M8 is Japanese
    They must be very old clades and there must haven been many other brothers in between that all went extinct.

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    Thanks so much, Sparkey. That is really very interesting. So would that effectively mean C-V20 is pre-Indo-European and autochthonous to Europe? Might this also explain the higher than average Neanderthal gene contribution in my gene make-up?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
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    U4a (Cornish)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    Mesolithic/Neolithic : what is the context of this indivuidual?
    Pitted Ware. The thread dealing with him and similar samples is here. We talk about Ajv70 on the second page. Plenty of doubt that he was actually F2, but he certainly does not seem to have been I.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaudrakon View Post
    Thanks so much, Sparkey. That is really very interesting. So would that effectively mean C-V20 is pre-Indo-European and autochthonous to Europe?
    Yes, it seems pretty clear that C-V20 is native to Europe since at least the Mesolithic, quite possibly earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaudrakon View Post
    Might this also explain the higher than average Neanderthal gene contribution in my gene make-up?
    No, not really. C-V20 is old, but it's definitely Sapiens, as is all known surviving Y-DNA. Your Neanderthal autosomal admixture is effectively independent of your Y-line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkey View Post
    Yes, it seems pretty clear that C-V20 is native to Europe since at least the Mesolithic, quite possibly earlier.



    No, not really. C-V20 is old, but it's definitely Sapiens, as is all known surviving Y-DNA. Your Neanderthal autosomal admixture is effectively independent of your Y-line.
    Thanks, that's clearer.

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    Is there any pocket of haplogroup C left in Europe? Any specific subclades? There is no Eupedia page about C, so...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moi-même View Post
    Is there any pocket of haplogroup C left in Europe? Any specific subclades? There is no Eupedia page about C, so...
    some in this link

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moi-même View Post
    Is there any pocket of haplogroup C left in Europe? Any specific subclades? There is no Eupedia page about C, so...
    Yes, C-V20 is the major European clade of C, but it itself is rare in Europe, being dwarfed by I and R clades, and even E and N. Here's an article from Familypedia on HG C. C (other than C-V20) is more common outside of Europe, and C-clades are the majority of lineages among Australian Aborigines. Keep in mind that C is very old, much older than I and R, so the average C-bearing European is not extremely closely related to the average C-bearing Australian Aborigine, though they are more closely related to the Aborigine than they are to, for example, an average R-bearing Celt.

    Are you y-HG C or related to someone who is C?
    Last edited by RobertColumbia; 08-04-16 at 05:37. Reason: fix contradiction

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I don't know anyone who is y-C, but I was curious of what's left of this old haplogroup in Europe. I read C-V20 is present in Southern Europe and some Asian C-M217 is present in Eastern Europe, but this kind of info is usually a footnote in wider C distribution review.

    Since Eupedia is more oriented towards Europe, I was hoping to get a more detailed sumary... Maybe there are too few samples, so it's hard to see any trend among hg C in Europe?

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    My Paternal hg is C and my DNA test says I am 85% north african. How come ? I thought berbers have the subclade E1b1b1 ?

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    No clue ?

    thought there were plenty of experts in this forum :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orca1 View Post
    No clue ?

    thought there were plenty of experts in this forum :)
    Without having fine subclades of haplogroup C nobody can trace the route from its place of origin. It could be very ancient and always been in your area, before it left Africa for the world. It could have come with Turks from Central Asia 1,000 years ago to Near East and then with mercenaries of some army to your area. Or as recent as 100 years ago on a ship with a merchant who had love affair with your great grandmother. As long as a father has a son, his Y chromosome will live forever, even though original autosomal DNA changes completely. I'm assuming that your C is Y DNA, not mtDNA.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Hi LeBrok,

    Yes it's Y DNA, My mtDNA is N1b1. I have just got results from 23andme and all it says about paternal line is C, no subclade ( where can I get the subclade from? )

    The ancestry composition says I have about 85% North African (0.2 middle eastern), 10% European, the rest 0.something subsaharan, and 0.something unassigned.

    The turks came about 500 years ago with their mercenaries and until now we know roughly who is turk/balkan who is not in the area, family names etc... Also if my genetic map is 85% north african and from an unusual subclade it means my ancesters lived more than 1000 years in north africa to melt completely with the local genetic pool ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orca1 View Post
    Hi LeBrok,

    Yes it's Y DNA, My mtDNA is N1b1. I have just got results from 23andme and all it says about paternal line is C, no subclade ( where can I get the subclade from? )

    The ancestry composition says I have about 85% North African (0.2 middle eastern), 10% European, the rest 0.something subsaharan, and 0.something unassigned.

    The turks came about 500 years ago with their mercenaries and until now we know roughly who is turk/balkan who is not in the area, family names etc... Also if my genetic map is 85% north african and from an unusual subclade it means my ancesters lived more than 1000 years in north africa to melt completely with the local genetic pool ?
    Go through these threads: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/forums/...ting-companies
    And welcome to Eupedia.

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    Thanks LeBrok.

    I think I need 10 posts at least to be able to open my first thread in this Forum :).

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    I mean I just don't get it when 23andme say I'am 85% north African where my subclade is not noth african at all ....but Asian ??

    Maybe someone can explain me the big picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orca1 View Post
    I mean I just don't get it when 23andme say I'am 85% north African where my subclade is not noth african at all ....but Asian ??

    Maybe someone can explain me the big picture.
    Because Y DNA is on 2% of DNA.

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    OK. And how long it takes for a DNA composition to melt up to 80% into a certain group ? 500 years? 1000, 10 thousands..?In this case I find it irrelevant to know that my Y DNA originate to 60 thousands years ago in Asia.... 23andme provide only hg C and no subclade which leaves it more ambiguous and vague. Is there a way to map my DNA composition in a more detailed way ? so I can track back my ancestors since the out of Africa all the way down to few hundreds years ago ? :)

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