He was a Kven that went and live between Norse people.
After,some of his ancestors went to Baltic countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yotvingians#Name
His ancestors did well in Baltic.
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He was a Kven that went and live between Norse people.
After,some of his ancestors went to Baltic countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yotvingians#Name
Some other info from archeological finds in modern Kaliningrad:
http://www.kantiana.ru/crossroads/documents/Archaeological_catalogue_eng.pdf
Authors (Polish, Lithuanian and Russian) research viking age finds in modern Kaliningrad, ancient Prussia and finds out Norse warriors among local people. Norse chieftains graves. Large cemetery near Truso. And other finds. Among conclusions is also this note:
"It was within the limits of this interethnic (Balts, Varangians - my comment) contacts route where Grand Duchy of Litowsky came into being, probably as an instrument of control over its (Neman trade route - my comment) uninterrupted activity".
Everything starts to make sense. Piece by piece.
Some new questions still do arise.
1) Scandinavian colonies are attested in Prussia coastal areas (Truso, Kaup and some others, vikings from modern Sweden territory). And then we have Yatwings deeper inland. There are several touchpoints but for my theory to hold we need both sources to be in majority one clan. Can the Baltic ones (Yatwings + Truso colonists) be the same folk? Could it be there were two gangs/clans operating and later conflicting - Rurik's men and alikes (L550, L1025-) on Kiev/Novgorod trade route and Yatwigr's (?) men (L550, L1025+, possibly M2783+) on Neman trade route?
What started as simple speculation, turned into google searches. I still dont give 100% credibility to this idea, but at least I have learned a lot on Varyag Balt early interactions
Hard to have anything from this particular area. If we talk about Lithuania then according eupedia:
42% - N1C
38% - R1A
6% - I1
5% - I2
5% - R1B
This is where I sum up my findings, put them into facts/speculation:
a) facts, that archeology shows Scandinavian influence, burials, which can't be done without Scandinavian warlords and rather big population moving in, finds relate to Uppland, Roslagen, Gotland regions;
b) fact/findings that Balt N1C1 is rather young, uniform and overpresented in Balts nobility (almost exclousively ethnic Baltic nobles were N1C1) VS R1A being different clades, different ages, mixed
c) fact that L1025 pre-Baltic clades are found among modern Swedes and Finns, around Uppland and Alands. L555 (pre L1025) as well.
d) speculation, but mainstream one, about Yotwingians/Yatwigr Norse etimology.
e) speculation, at least attested in some sources about Gediminas (L550-> L1025-> L551) being son of Skolmantas (Yatwing warlord and shaman)
f) my own speculation, which comes from above, about Norse etimology for leičiai (leitis) from Old Norse 'leita' - search/look for.
and the main speculation, also my own:
N1C1 clades entered Balts in viking age by Norsified N1C1 men.
Jatvigr is Norse. Rurik's folk is Norse (you can find in net list of Rus delegation that met some foreign leader(s)). Almost exclousively those guys had Norse names written in Russian manner since the chronicle was Russian, btw among them Jatvjag Gunnarev is mentioned.
I think also Kuningas or Koningas in Finnic comes from Norse. Knyaz in Russian, Kunigaikstis in Lithuanian.
They in few generations got Rusified/Baltified later. I suspect they were already Norsified before, maybe also just for few generations.
Arivistro, you're so enthusiastic about your theory, so I don't want to spoil it. But the general explanation is that all N1C1 were just there in the Lithuanian territory from Narva culture times...
I know the general explanation. I propose new one.Arivistro, you're so enthusiastic about your theory, so I don't want to spoil it. But the general explanation is that all N1C1 were just there in the Lithuanian territory from Narva culture times...
Kristina
Before claiming unknown origin of Italian lido which came from Latin litus please check the wictionary:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/litus#Latin
First sentence: "Probably from Proto-Indo-European *lei (“to flow”), perhaps the same source as the name of Lithuania."
There are many words that are shared on Proto-IE level between Baltic languages and Latin.
Please also re-read my explanation on Gallians. There are no such thing in Latvian language, trust me I speak it. But we have -galieši, -gaļi, in English they would be siders or enders. Semigallians are on Žemaičai side. Lettigallians are on Lietuva side. That is it. I sometimes do bad stuff to my hair when I see a smart person coming up with Semigallians as semi Gallians That is absolutely unprofessional and shows that person has researched nothing on our language before proposing mysterious links.
Also no need to create exact Lietuva, for etimilogy purposes root "let", "liet", "leit" has to be proposed and later explained. There is this nice Baltic word "liet" - "to pour", "lietus" - "rain". Your proposal is also valid as a version. Be it mud or meadow or pouring water, all are valid versions. I prefer leičai version, since we call Lithuanian "leitis" and Lithuania "leišmale" since long, long times ago.
I think when you say "among the Sweddish-speaking Finns" I agree with you. But I would go farther than that. Have you heard of Kvenland? According to map on this site Kvens (which later became Sweddish speaking Finns) lived in Northern 2/3 of Sweden + Finland at early viking times.
http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsEurope/ScandinaviaFinland.htm
Also I have noticed another thing paternally.
L550+L1025- can be found in Scandinavia, around Uppsala
L550+L1025+, M2783- also can be found in Scandinavia, around Uppsala, but those are very rare cases
L550+L1025+M2783+ it is Baltic clade.
It seems that L1025 tribe suffered heavy losses somewhere at viking ages. The L1025 clan M2783 who went into South Baltics survived in big numbers. The L1025 clan Y4706 which stayed in FennoScandia was heavily beaten, almost dissappeared. It is so rare that not long ago (few months ago) everyone thought simply L1025 was South Baltics.
I think a lot of surprises await us once ancient dna from both sides of Baltics appear. First, everyone will be surprised to see no South Baltic clade in Balts in early AD samples. Second, everyone will be surprised seeing much more N1C1 in Sweden in early AD samples (in upper 2/3 of Sweden). And I will be all smiles: "I told ya!"
The L1025 clan Y4706 which stayed in FennoScandia was heavily beaten, almost dissappeared.
Birger Jarl seems to have headed for Finland just after having both crushed theFolkung uprising of 1247-1248 and finalized the Treaty of Lödöse with Norway earlier in the summer of 1249.
Sweden's previous attempts to gain a foothold in Estonia in 1220 may have urged Sweden to settle for what was still available. Eric's Chronicle also points out the threat from Russians, mentioning that the "Russian king" had now lost the conquered land.
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