Proto-Indo-Europeans were the Highlanders, who lived near the sea.

[khufu]

haplogroup R ancestors born in Siberia and not ind-europe

he ancestors close to nigros in

Papua New Guinea haplogroup S and south east asia ​

They do not have ancestors in indian or north indian or central asia

 

[Sile]

It appears that Haplogroup K went along the coast of India as Haplogroup LT split from it near the Arabian Sea and then kept on going to Bay of Bengal or were caught by the strong currents to the Sundaland. The seas being much lower by 120 meters offered a much smoother coastline for water flow thus stronger equatorial ocean current to loop back counterclock wise in the Northern Hemisphere but having no land mass opposite India the westward equatorial current pushed into the coasts of Africa. Probably Haplogroup P decided to go back as the Sundaland is very hot (Thailand is very hot year-round as it is very near or the Equator passes through Thailand). After backtracking instead of going back all the way to the Middle East they went north towards the Himalayas and into Central Asia. When they backtracked it was family reunion so it was quick movement across large distances. Haplogroup K and P with Q are family so they travel together. Of course, Haplogroup N and O went up north to China and N continued into Siberia and westward while O stayed in Southeast Asia, into eastern India and up the Mekong to Tibet.

Haplogroup R could have been born in the region covering Himalayas, Pamir Mountains and the Hindu Kush as well as Central Asia and Siberia.

https://pastmists.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/central-asia/

you do know the order of the Y tree , correct?

from K born in Hormuz ...............one line of K went north along the persin gulf to create I, J, G and H
the other K line went along southern iran .............when it got to Indus valley ...LT was born.....the new K1 Branch
- T split from LT and went west into eastern iran and northern afghan .........ancient K9 found in tarim basin was T1a
- L split from LT and the bulk went into India

K kept moving East and became K2 branch.......when it reached the Burma border X was created and little after N and O where created ...this was K2a branch

Remaining K became K2b branch and MP was created
- this MPS branch split into 2 branches MS branch and a P branch
- MS then split into M and S
and the P branch created Q and R branches

The south-east asian branches are M, S, Q, R and P...with P being the father of R and Q.
R and Q are 1st cousins of S and M
since S is in indonesia then its cousin lives next door which is R

to conclude
basal R-M207 is from sundaland in SE-Asia
Basal R1 is from Bhutan and himalyas area
basal R2 is from india

You cannot have R created next to S and expect it to arrive in central asia in less than 123years before a mutation

the problem is , that all these R1a people a crying because they do not want there beloved R1a to be born south of the caspian and black seas........too F@#$% bad for them

mal'ta boy was initially stated R* a dead branch found in siberia...he was 15 years old.....his marker has been reclassified as MA-1 ...it is a n extinct marker

below is a skeleton Y tree from November 2014
http://www.phylotree.org/Y/Y_tree_skeleton.pdf

 

[Robert6]

You obviously haven't read the paper I provided a link to, but at least read the December 9 entry on the Eurogenes Blog where he discusses the paper and gives his reasons for believing that the earliest Pit Grave kurgans on the eastern steppes are at least as old as the oldest of the Maikop kurgans in the Caucasus.

Even if Yamna is as much is old the Maikop, the Kurgans in southern Ukraine were there before the coming of Yamna from Volga Region.
Leila-Tepe is almost the same culturally with Maikop, so it is obvius that "Maikop" and also "North Pontic Maikop" are descendants of Leila-Tepe.
Also because of earliest Kurgans in Leila-Tepe, we must say that early Yamna in Volga is a Kurganized culture, and Yamna is autosomaly half Leila-Tepe(Armenian like 50% autosomaly)

 

[Aberdeen]

Even if Yamna is as much is old the Maikop, the Kurgans in southern Ukraine were there before the coming of Yamna from Volga Region.
Leila-Tepe is almost the same culturally with Maikop, so it is obvius that "Maikop" and also "North Pontic Maikop" are descendants of Leila-Tepe.
Also because of earliest Kurgans in Leila-Tepe, we must say that early Yamna in Volga is a Kurganized culture, and Yamna is autosomaly half Leila-Tepe(Armenian like 50% autosomaly)

No. Read the article I provided a link to in an earlier post.

 

[Angela]

Is the paper under discussion the following?
https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/radiocarbon/article/view/16087

If so, I don't think things are quite so clear cut in terms of the dating.

See post #112 on the following Anthrogenica thread. As often is the case, the poster "Alan", a trained archaeologist, often provides some interesting facts and insights.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthr...languages-originated-Yamnaya-or-Maykop/page12

"I saw that paper on dating but it was very equivocal and basically spun things too by lumping Repin in with Yamnaya which is wrong. Yamnaya itself was still dated to 3300BC which is many centuries later than early Maykop and even 200 years before steppe Maykop.

The Uruk paper was overturned a little later by a German paper which showed much of the ideas about a Uruk connection were unsupported and the real connection was with Iran which makes a lot more sense."

 

[holderlin]

See post #112 on the following Anthrogenica thread. As often is the case, the poster "Alan", a trained archaeologist, often provides some interesting facts and insights.
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthr...languages-originated-Yamnaya-or-Maykop/page12

That's a good ass thread. Thanks

 

[oriental]

you do know the order of the Y tree , correct?

Good, you spelled it out. I was just writing from the top of my head sort of thinking out loud. I hope you realize I just do it for fun. Don't feel offended if my writing or opinions are contrary to anything sensible. I don't take offense if people to point out my errors and I make plenty.

 

[holderlin]

The thing about most people who argue against a Pontic Caspian PIE homeland, is that they tend to have no idea what they're talking about. This is proven time and again.

Most of what is missing tends to be the archaeolinguistics of the actual IE expansions, the trajectories of which rule out most alternatives. Ironically this is most evident in the Indo-Iranian languages.

 

[Taranis]

There is a hypothetical and possibly IE language that was before the Sumerian in the Mesopotamia, linguists name it Euphratic

Are you talking about Gordon Whittaker's proposal? Its pretty hair-raising because not only is the idea that Indo-European was spoken in southern Mesopotamia before the speakers of Sumerian arrived there fairly ridiculous in itself, Whittaker also fails to regularly correspond his supposed Sumerian/IE cognates. He just has Sumerian words that look superficially Indo-European.

The thing about most people who argue against a Pontic Caspian PIE homeland, is that they tend to have no idea what they're talking about. This is proven time and again.

Most of what is missing tends to be the archaeolinguistics of the actual IE expansions, the trajectories of which rule out most alternatives. Ironically this is most evident in the Indo-Iranian languages.

What I find ironic about most of these alternatives to the Pontic-Caspian steppe is that they are astonishingly Eurocentric - that certainly applies to the Anatolian hypothesis, and to Mario Alinei's Paleolithic Continuity hypothesis, as both really don't explain the existence and position of the Indo-Iranic and even moreso the Tocharian languages. The only major exception from that trend is the Out-of-India model, but it has even more problems to it.

I would like to point out something else, namely while the Pontic-Caspian steppe is the most plausible and most viable scenario, I would like to point out that I see a number of potential other Indo-European homelands that are never discussed, yet would be at least as viable as Anatolia, namely the Balkans peninsula and the north European plain.

 

[Silesian]

Even if Yamna is as much is old the Maikop,..........

Mandarin-honey

蜜 mì "honey"
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00334-006-0067-5

 

[holderlin]

Are you talking about Gordon Whittaker's proposal? Its pretty hair-raising because not only is the idea that Indo-European was spoken in southern Mesopotamia before the speakers of Sumerian arrived there fairly ridiculous in itself, Whittaker also fails to regularly correspond his supposed Sumerian/IE cognates. He just has Sumerian words that look superficially Indo-European.



What I find ironic about most of these alternatives to the Pontic-Caspian steppe is that they are astonishingly Eurocentric - that certainly applies to the Anatolian hypothesis, and to Mario Alinei's Paleolithic Continuity hypothesis, as both really don't explain the existence and position of the Indo-Iranic and even moreso the Tocharian languages. The only major exception from that trend is the Out-of-India model, but it has even more problems to it.

I would like to point out something else, namely while the Pontic-Caspian steppe is the most plausible and most viable scenario, I would like to point out that I see a number of potential other Indo-European homelands that are never discussed, yet would be at least as viable as Anatolia, namely the Balkans peninsula and the north European plain.

Yes.

Baltic here, or as you say the Polish plane just south there of.

 

[Aberdeen]

..........
What I find ironic about most of these alternatives to the Pontic-Caspian steppe is that they are astonishingly Eurocentric - that certainly applies to the Anatolian hypothesis, and to Mario Alinei's Paleolithic Continuity hypothesis, as both really don't explain the existence and position of the Indo-Iranic and even moreso the Tocharian languages. The only major exception from that trend is the Out-of-India model, but it has even more problems to it.

I would like to point out something else, namely while the Pontic-Caspian steppe is the most plausible and most viable scenario, I would like to point out that I see a number of potential other Indo-European homelands that are never discussed, yet would be at least as viable as Anatolia, namely the Balkans peninsula and the north European plain.

I think most people who've looked at the issue associate IE with the horse, wheeled vehicles and pastoralism, and are also thinking that the IE homeland must have been situated somewhere where part of its population might logically have moved south and east from their homeland into Iran, Afghanistan and India. That's why most people are so "Eurocentric" as to think that the IE homeland was likely located on the steppes rather than being in the Balkans or northern Europe.

 

[worldpedia]

The thing about most people who argue against a Pontic Caspian PIE homeland, is that they tend to have no idea what they're talking about. This is proven time and again.

Most of what is missing tends to be the archaeolinguistics of the actual IE expansions, the trajectories of which rule out most alternatives. Ironically this is most evident in the Indo-Iranian languages.

Oh really, lol. What is "proven time and again"? Please explain? I do enjoy every second how you do ridicule yourself.

The homeland of the so called 'Aryans' that invade India was BMAC. But there are heavily links between West Asia and BMAC and ahuge discontinuity and huge differences between BMAC and Andronovo culture (Sintashta).

Culturally and archeologically BMAC is much closer to the Western Iran (Leyla-Tepe) than to Sintashta. Also BMAC and Western Iran have common Y-DNA haplogroups like J2a, T and R1a-Z93. Also linguistically, there're lots of ancient links between West Iran and BMAC.

 

[worldpedia]

I think most people who've looked at the issue associate IE with the horse, wheeled vehicles and pastoralism, and are also thinking that the IE homeland must have been situated somewhere where part of its population might logically have moved south and east from their homeland into Iran, Afghanistan and India. That's why most people are so "Eurocentric" as to think that the IE homeland was likely located on the steppes rather than being in the Balkans or northern Europe.

Homeland of Aryans that invaded India was BMAC, that is in South Central Asia. The Bronze Age Aryan Oxus civilization was closer to West Iran than to Andronovo culture (Sintashta). So homeland of Aryans that moved into India WAS BMAC and NOT Andronovo, the Steppes or whatever...

 

[worldpedia]

The thing about most people who argue against a Pontic Caspian PIE homeland, is that they tend to have no idea what they're talking about. This is proven time and again.

If you have so much knowledge, what are the proves you're speaking about?

 

[Aberdeen]

Homeland of Aryans that invaded India was BMAC, that is in South Central Asia. The Bronze Age Aryan Oxus civilization was closer to West Iran than to Andronovo culture (Sintashta). So homeland of Aryans that moved into India WAS BMAC and NOT Andronovo, the Steppes or whatever...

Mr. Goga, I presume?

 

[worldpedia]

Mr. Goga, I presume?

Yes it is, on dec. 22 I'll be unbanned. I couldn't wait for another 2 days and had to react to some untrue info. But you didn't give answer to my question. Why do you think that the homeland of Aryans that invaded India came from Andronovo, while it's an accepted fact that they came from BMAC. And on the other side BMAC culture is much,much closer to Leyla-Tepe than to Andronovo (Sintashta). There's a cultural and archeological discontinuity between Andronovo (Sintashta) - BMAC and there're strong links between Bmac and Leyla-Tepe. This is my last post on this account, and I'll wait for next two days untill I'll be unbanned...

 

[Aberdeen]

Yes it is, on dec. 22 I'll be unbanned. I couldn't wait for another 2 days and had to react to some untrue info. But you didn't give answer to my question. Why do you think that the homeland of Aryans that invaded India came from Andronovo, while it's an accepted fact that they came from BMAC. And on the other side BMAC culture is much,much closer to Leyla-Tepe than to Andronovo (Sintashta). There's a cultural and archeological discontinuity between Andronovo (Sintashta) - BMAC and there're strong links between Bmac and Leyla-Tepe. This is my last post on this account, and I'll wait for next two days untill I'll be unbanned...

We've been through all this before. IE folk from the steppes Iranized the Kurdish population of what is now Iran, as well as conquering what is now Afghanistan and Pakistan and eventually parts of India. Regardless of what route they took, the countries that are now Kazakhastan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan had Iranic populations before Iran did, and they remained Iranian until the Turkish expansion. But I suppose you're just going to reply with something I think is nonsense, so there's no point in the two of us discussing it further.

 

[Taranis]

I think most people who've looked at the issue associate IE with the horse, wheeled vehicles and pastoralism, and are also thinking that the IE homeland must have been situated somewhere where part of its population might logically have moved south and east from their homeland into Iran, Afghanistan and India. That's why most people are so "Eurocentric" as to think that the IE homeland was likely located on the steppes rather than being in the Balkans or northern Europe.

One point I'd like to make about wheels is (you may say, playing devil's advocate), evidence for the wheel is actually attested from the Central European Funnelbeaker culture, which is usually regarded as pre-IE. Like you said, the fact that this terminology is reconstructable for PIE is a very strong case for the Pontic-Caspian steppe, but I do think its worthwhile looking at the unlikely alternatives, even if only for the merit of debunking them.

Yes it is, on dec. 22 I'll be unbanned. I couldn't wait for another 2 days and had to react to some untrue info. But you didn't give answer to my question. Why do you think that the homeland of Aryans that invaded India came from Andronovo, while it's an accepted fact that they came from BMAC. And on the other side BMAC culture is much,much closer to Leyla-Tepe than to Andronovo (Sintashta). There's a cultural and archeological discontinuity between Andronovo (Sintashta) - BMAC and there're strong links between Bmac and Leyla-Tepe. This is my last post on this account, and I'll wait for next two days untill I'll be unbanned...

You're definitely outstretching things by creating a new account with a false claim about the country you're living in, in order to avoid your ban. :useless:

I understand that you feel emotional about the topic, and I concede its interesting, but I'm under the impression you're mixing things up: as I recall you are of Kurdish ancestry, and for some reason you want the Indo-European homeland to be placed close to the area of your own people, that is in northern Mesopotamia: it is quite ridiculous though since clearly non-Indo-European languages are attested from there early on, most importantly Akkadian (a Semitic language, distantly related with modern Arabic and Hebrew), and the Hurrian.

Don't get me wrong, the Kurds speak an Indo-European language (part of the Iranic, and in turn part of the Indo-Iranic branch), no doubt about that, but please, leave the Proto-Indo-Europeans out of Mesopotamia. Wherever their homeland and whichever scenario is the most correct one, they certainly don't belong there.

 

[worldpedia]

We've been through all this before. IE folk from the steppes Iranized the Kurdish population of what is now Iran, as well as conquering what is now Afghanistan and Pakistan and eventually parts of India. Regardless of what route they took, the countries that are now Kazakhastan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan had Iranic populations before Iran did, and they remained Iranian until the Turkish expansion. But I suppose you're just going to reply with something I think is nonsense, so there's no point in the two of us discussing it further.

Lol, you mean 'Iranoid' folks from Western parts of the Iranian Plateau / Zagros Mountains Iranized folks in South Central Asia. Folks who lived in Kazakhastan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan were East Iranic people, who came actually from the West Asia. In that area there's still lots of West Asian Y-DNA, like J2a and lots of West Asia auDNA... Original Iranic people came from an area between Leyla-Tepe and the Zagros Mountains, you like it or not. Kurds are West Iranic people and Iranic people in Central Asia were EAST Iranic people. Dude, do you really think you know my history better than I do ... ?