Differences between Western(Catholic-Protestant) and Orthodox civilisations.

[Garrick]

Hungary is not Eastern european country.



Hungary (similar to Poland Czech Rep. Germany Switzerland Poland etc..) is a Central European country, and it is part of western (catholic-protestant) western culture.

See the old Encyclopedia Britannica from 1911:

HUNGARY (Hungarian Magyarorszag), a country in the south-eastern pertion of Central Europe,
http://archive.org/stream/encyclopaediabrit13chisrich#page/894/mode/1up/search/hungary



See Modern Britannica:

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/276730/Hungary

Hungary, Hungarian Magyarország, landlocked country of central Europe. The capital is Budapest.


German BrockHaus Encyclopedia
http://www.brockhaus.de/.files/pdf/enzyklopaedie/BE_Burg.pdf

Columbia Encyclopedia
http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Hungary.aspx


French Larousse Encyclopedia
http://www.larousse.fr/encyclopedie/pays/Hongrie/111520


Hungary is Central European: CIA World Factbook
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/hu.html


Encarta Encyclopedia
http://web.archive.org/web/20091028125450/http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761559741/Hungary.html

You don't read carefully.

Renowned scientist Maddison put Hungary in East European countries (I just took from his book), yes it is Central European country, but it doesn't matter for this discussion.

What is important is:

Hungarian GDP per capita in 1000 year, is $400, as in Balkan and East European countries, Greece, United Kingdom and Scandinavian countries.

If you think that Hungary had higher GDP per capita in 1000 year comparing with Greece, Balkan and East European countries, United Kingdom and Scandinavian countries, you think mistakenly.

Of course, you can try to do your research and confute Maddison, but it must be serious scientific paper.

 

[Garrick]

The vast majority of serbian population was shepherd, the agriculture was less imortant in slavic balkan. That's why cultural and infrastructural and societal development were so slow and backward in the slavic balkan. The bartel-trade was the dominant in slavic balkan until the late 18th century.

You ignore facts, ignore scientists, even compare cities of 15 century as superior with city from VI century, etc. It is not way for discussion. I discuss with you only because I appreciate Hungarians and have good friends, but honestly discussion with you is without purpose.

You can read about Serba in medieval time (before Ottoman occupation):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_in_the_Middle_Ages

Medieval Serbia had a high political, economic, and cultural reputation in Europe.

...
And I will say my opinion:

Bickering between Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christians is completely unnecessary.

Separation of the church in 1054 had purely political reasons.

Someone who belongs to one of these churches, nor is therefore more capable or smarter, it has nothing to do with it.

 

[Ike]

Does the OP even know the differences between Orthodox and Catholic religion?
Does he think that all the major differences in the way of life were based on that, or there could be more factors involved?

The vast majority of serbian population was shepherd, the agriculture was less imortant in slavic balkan. That's why cultural and infrastructural and societal development were so slow and backward in the slavic balkan. The bartel-trade was the dominant in slavic balkan until the late 18th century.

And they were shepherds because they were not Catholic?

 

[Stears555]

You ignore facts, ignore scientists, even compare cities of 15 century as superior with city from VI century, etc. It is not way for discussion. I discuss with you only because I appreciate Hungarians and have good friends, but honestly discussion with you is without purpose.

You can read about Serba in medieval time (before Ottoman occupation):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_in_the_Middle_Ages

Medieval Serbia had a high political, economic, and cultural reputation in Europe.

...
And I will say my opinion:

Bickering between Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christians is completely unnecessary.

Separation of the church in 1054 had purely political reasons.

Someone who belongs to one of these churches, nor is therefore more capable or smarter, it has nothing to do with it.

This scolars give at least 300 dollar for central africa, and neglects the infrastructure. In balkan slavic countries and eastern slavs, there were no medieval urbanization, there were no banking systems, there were no money-based economic (because they were bartel economies until the late 18th century) there were no serious industry (balkanite commoners did not wear textile clothes(!!!), only their nobility, and they had to import textiles) they had no real shoes boots, they wore primitive opanka (prehistoric type of sandal) very few stone buildings existed, their churches were little and howel like, 99% of their churches were wooden. The metallurgy was prmitive (they were not able to made real serious armours , just some primitive forms of them) Were real doors in their houses? Or there were a carpet instead of doors? Did they knew the padlock? Or their higher aristocracy knew it? Their "towns" did not have town walls (or they had paladise walls) only some capital cities had. That's why I said there were at least 300 years difference in development in medieval era..

 

[Stears555]

Does the OP even know the differences between Orthodox and Catholic religion?
Does he think that all the major differences in the way of life were based on that, or there could be more factors involved?



And they were shepherds because they were not Catholic?

The religion and religious dogmas is not interesting, however the church as an institution and its infrastructure was important, because monks clergy had high impact in early and high medieval era culture technology and knowledge after the roman empire collapsed. The Greek led Orthodox church did not want to develop the orthodox countries to the level of Byzantine Empire, because byzantine orthodox church worked as national church, part of imperial politics, they spread their version of christianity to grow the influence of Byzantine Emperor and Empire. However Catholic church was really international, with international leaders (german french italian english spanish popes), whithout national interest, so they developed and taught the people for modern methods after the dark ages

 

[Stears555]

You don't read carefully.

Renowned scientist Maddison put Hungary in East European countries (I just took from his book), yes it is Central European country, but it doesn't matter for this discussion.

What is important is:

Hungarian GDP per capita in 1000 year, is $400, as in Balkan and East European countries, Greece, United Kingdom and Scandinavian countries.

If you think that Hungary had higher GDP per capita in 1000 year comparing with Greece, Balkan and East European countries, United Kingdom and Scandinavian countries, you think mistakenly.

Of course, you can try to do your research and confute Maddison, but it must be serious scientific paper.

It is important, because Central European term is not just a geographic, but a cultural term, where the Western christian civilization was the dominant.

 

[Garrick]

This scolars give at least 300 dollar for central africa, and neglects the infrastructure. In balkan slavic countries and eastern slavs, there were no medieval urbanization, there were no banking systems, there were no money-based economic (because they were bartel economies until the late 18th century) there were no serious industry (balkanite commoners did not wear textile clothes(!!!), only their nobility, and they had to import textiles) they had no real shoes boots, they wore primitive opanka (prehistoric type of sandal) very few stone buildings existed, their churches were little and howel like, 99% of their churches were wooden. The metallurgy was prmitive (they were not able to made real serious armours , just some primitive forms of them) Were real doors in their houses? Or there were a carpet instead of doors? Did they knew the padlock? Or their higher aristocracy knew it? Their "towns" did not have town walls (or they had paladise walls) only some capital cities had. That's why I said there were at least 300 years difference in development in medieval era..

Of course, what do you expect in occupied countries 500 years under Ottomans, Islamic rule and Sharia law.

You could see, situation in Balkan counties was similar as in many other countries in Europe, including Hungary, Scandinavian countries, England etc. in 1000 year.

But Balkan countries had very hard times under Ottomans for 500 years, it is difficult and painful fate, full of victims.

Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs etc didn't have fortune with occupiers, what can people do.

You can not choose occupier.

But these people, with difficult fate, were defending Europe, and the further expansion of the Ottomans, and centuries were European allies, among other and Hungarians.

These are historical facts and you can find in the Internet or libraries.

If Balkans was free (wasn't occupied) and experienced humanism and renaissance today Balkan countries would be developed similar other European countries.
...

(Neither the present age is not without pitfalls. ISIS makes new Caliphate, which again including whole Balkans, plus Hungary, Slovakia, Austria etc. Maybe you think that you are more secure than some countries closer to current ISIS territories. But things can quickly change.

You probably didn't think where the weak links from current ISIS territories to Hungary.

Today things are very related.)
...

You failed to mention the fact that Hungarian and Serbian rulers had blood ties (in middle ages before Ottomans).

Do you think this would be possible that the Serbs were subordinated to Hungarians, or inversely, Hungarians subordinated to Serbs.

No, among royal families and nobles get married only equal among equals.

Hungary was Roman Catholic country, Serbia was Orthodox country, and yet, these two countries for centuries had good relations. Today these two countries are in very good relationships, too.

And you know during history Hungary had battles with some other Catholic countries, as Serbia had battles with some other Orthodox countries, this suggests that some other factors affecting.

Both Roman Catholics and Orthodoxes are Christians, every man or woman among them can be good person and good Christian.

Split of church - Roman Catholic and Orthodox, was due to political reasons, if you want about that can be discussed but in a particular topic.

 

[Stears555]

Of course, what do you expect in occupied countries 500 years under Ottomans, Islamic rule and Sharia law.

You could see, situation in Balkan counties was similar as in many other countries in Europe, including Hungary, Scandinavian countries, England etc. in 1000 year.

But Balkan countries had very hard times under Ottomans for 500 years, it is difficult and painful fate, full of victims.

Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs etc didn't have fortune with occupiers, what can people do.

You can not choose occupier.

But these people, with difficult fate, were defending Europe, and the further expansion of the Ottomans, and centuries were European allies, among other and Hungarians.

These are historical facts and you can find in the Internet or libraries.

If Balkans was free (wasn't occupied) and experienced humanism and renaissance today Balkan countries would be developed similar other European countries.
...

(Neither the present age is not without pitfalls. ISIS makes new Caliphate, which again including whole Balkans, plus Hungary, Slovakia, Austria etc. Maybe you think that you are more secure than some countries closer to current ISIS territories. But things can quickly change.

You probably didn't think where the weak links from current ISIS territories to Hungary.

Today things are very related.)
...

You failed to mention the fact that Hungarian and Serbian rulers had blood ties (in middle ages before Ottomans).

Do you think this would be possible that the Serbs were subordinated to Hungarians, or inversely, Hungarians subordinated to Serbs.

No, among royal families and nobles get married only equal among equals.

Hungary was Roman Catholic country, Serbia was Orthodox country, and yet, these two countries for centuries had good relations. Today these two countries are in very good relationships, too.

And you know during history Hungary had battles with some other Catholic countries, as Serbia had battles with some other Orthodox countries, this suggests that some other factors affecting.

Both Roman Catholics and Orthodoxes are Christians, every man or woman among them can be good person and good Christian.

Split of church - Roman Catholic and Orthodox, was due to political reasons, if you want about that can be discussed but in a particular topic.

Wrong. Independent Serbian state was founded in 1217, after the Byzantine power declined. There are very few historical record about the region, due to the late introduction of literacy in Serbia. Read the points in the #1 post of the article, which contain enormous differences. And think it over again. The topic is not about relations between nations or subordinance , it is about civilizations and history.

 

[Yetos]

The religion and religious dogmas is not interesting, however the church as an institution and its infrastructure was important, because monks clergy had high impact in early and high medieval era culture technology and knowledge after the roman empire collapsed. The Greek led Orthodox church did not want to develop the orthodox countries to the level of Byzantine Empire, because byzantine orthodox church worked as national church, part of imperial politics, they spread their version of christianity to grow the influence of Byzantine Emperor and Empire. However Catholic church was really international, with international leaders (german french italian english spanish popes), whithout national interest, so they developed and taught the people for modern methods after the dark ages

I THINK I HEARD ENOUGH LIES,

First
you are not a hungarian, but we all know who you are behind that flag,
your poison is clear,
your false statements and view of histpory is obvious,

second
IF YOU ARE A CATHOLIC (I doupt, you seem a muslim to me)
THEN YOU KNEW NEW TESTAMENT WAS WRITTEN IN GREEK, AND TRANSLATED IN ARABIAN FIRST, ITALA NEXT,

AFTER THAT THE NEXT TRANSLATION IN EUROPE WAS IN SLAVIC , WHEN CHURCH WAS UNITED, BY PUSHING OF BYZANTINES?
WHY?
WHY SLAVS HAD BIBLE IN THEIR LANGUAGE 600 YEARS BEFORE GERMANS?
IF BYZANTINE CHURCH WANTED TO GOVERN THEM? WHY THEY TRANSLATE THE BIBLE TO OCS?
except if you blind.

THIRD,
if you are a Catholic then you know about 4 Popes or Patriarchs, (it is the same title)
1 Jerusalem
2 Syrria Antiocheia
3 Egypt Alexandreia
4 Italy Rome

then Roman Pope gave title to Nova Roma brother, Patriarch

so 5th Patriarch split from 4rth,

and who are next?
Russian Serbian etc who sprung of 5th not from others?

IF BYZANTINE CHURCH WANTED SLAVS TO SERVE HER? WHY GAVE THEM THE ULTIMATE TITTLE?

a new Patriarch is about to open in N America,
to make a patriarch you need certain numbers, which soon might be reached,

on the other hand mister wise guy, which I think we all know what you are doing,
tell us if a nation has its own religion a bible in its own language, a liturgy, ceremonial in its own language, and a patriarch, why to be enslaved by another church or nation?

So GREEK BYZANTINE CHURCH DID WORK AS YOU SAY, BUT OPOSITE, GAVE WRITTEN, SPOKEN LITURGY, AND THE HIGHEST TITLE To OTHERS,

remember to be a Patriarch need 2 other patriarchs to put their hands,
not the votes of a council only, but the submissions of 2 others Patriarchs!!!!

now I still wonders why no Pope or Patriarch in America,
why no Pope or Patriarch in Germany?!!! or in Spain? or in Brazil which is 2-3 times Italy?
tell me, when you go to church, the liturgy/ceremony is it in your own language? and since when,
can you answer me that?


PS
according to christians 50 days after ressurection, the 'pupils' spoke in all the known languages,
not only in Greek or in Latin, but in all,

PS2
I am not a christian, I like more the some protestant small village churches, than the collosal fanfaran temples and titles,
but when I hear such statements, I really get upset,
besides, I think I know, and all here know who might post such false and why,

 

[King Bardhyl]

I THINK I HEARD ENOUGH LIES,

First
you are not a hungarian, but we all know who you are behind that flag,
your poison is clear,
your false statements and view of histpory is obvious,

second
IF YOU ARE A CATHOLIC (I doupt, you seem a muslim to me)
THEN YOU KNEW NEW TESTAMENT WAS WRITTEN IN GREEK, AND TRANSLATED IN ARABIAN FIRST, ITALA NEXT,

AFTER THAT THE NEXT TRANSLATION IN EUROPE WAS IN SLAVIC , WHEN CHURCH WAS UNITED, BY PUSHING OF BYZANTINES?
WHY?
WHY SLAVS HAD BIBLE IN THEIR LANGUAGE 600 YEARS BEFORE GERMANS?
IF BYZANTINE CHURCH WANTED TO GOVERN THEM? WHY THEY TRANSLATE THE BIBLE TO OCS?
except if you blind.

THIRD,
if you are a Catholic then you know about 4 Popes or Patriarchs, (it is the same title)
1 Jerusalem
2 Syrria Antiocheia
3 Egypt Alexandreia
4 Italy Rome

then Roman Pope gave title to Nova Roma brother, Patriarch

so 5th Patriarch split from 4rth,

and who are next?
Russian Serbian etc who sprung of 5th not from others?

IF BYZANTINE CHURCH WANTED SLAVS TO SERVE HER? WHY GAVE THEM THE ULTIMATE TITTLE?

a new Patriarch is about to open in N America,
to make a patriarch you need certain numbers, which soon might be reached,

on the other hand mister wise guy, which I think we all know what you are doing,
tell us if a nation has its own religion a bible in its own language, a liturgy, ceremonial in its own language, and a patriarch, why to be enslaved by another church or nation?

So GREEK BYZANTINE CHURCH DID WORK AS YOU SAY, BUT OPOSITE, GAVE WRITTEN, SPOKEN LITURGY, AND THE HIGHEST TITLE To OTHERS,

remember to be a Patriarch need 2 other patriarchs to put their hands,
not the votes of a council only, but the submissions of 2 others Patriarchs!!!!

now I still wonders why no Pope or Patriarch in America,
why no Pope or Patriarch in Germany?!!! or in Spain? or in Brazil which is 2-3 times Italy?
tell me, when you go to church, the liturgy/ceremony is it in your own language? and since when,
can you answer me that?


PS
according to christians 50 days after ressurection, the 'pupils' spoke in all the known languages,
not only in Greek or in Latin, but in all,

PS2
I am not a christian, I like more the some protestant small village churches, than the collosal fanfaran temples and titles,
but when I hear such statements, I really get upset,
besides, I think I know, and all here know who might post such false and why,

The Hudson Incident was an incident that gave rise to the foundation of the Albanian Orthodox Mission in America under the leadership of Fan Noli, who later would become the leader of the Orthodox Church of Albania. Eastern Orthodoxes in the United States would usually carry with them their lithurgy and language, however the case of the Albanians was different. Since they had been prohibited their own language in churches and schools, they established their first national church in Boston, United States.^[1]



Background

In 1907, a young Albanian emigrant to the United States, Kristaq Dishnica, died in Hudson, Massachusetts of influenza.^[2] Dishnica was an Albanian patriot, and since the Greek Church had excommunicated him, no Orthodox Church in the area would perform his funeral rites. As Dishnica was laid to rest in a Worcester cemetery without any religious service, the ire of the Albanians in Massachusetts arouse.

Fan Noli, an Albanian who had emigrated one year earlier to Boston, and who at that time was simply a church cantor,^[3] recognized this as an opportunity to serve the spiritual needs of his own community and to champion the cause for religious and political freedom in Albania. Noli was able to garner the support of Archbishop Platon, head of the Russian Orthodox Church in the United States, who ordained him as a priest on March 18, 1908 at the Cathedral of St. Nicholas^{[disambiguation needed]} in New York City.^[2]

A week later Fan Stylian Noli was appointed administer of the Albanian Orthodox Mission in America, and later elevated to the rank of Mitred Archmandrite.^[2]


Aftermath

As a result Saint George Albanian Orthodox Church is organized at the Knights of Honor Hall on Tremont Street in Boston. The church later evolved into the Saint George Albanian Orthodox Cathedral, which is also the seat of the Albanian Archdiocese of the Orthodox Church in America.^[4]




Fan S. Noli









In March 1908, Noli thus led the first time in Albanian the Orthodox liturgy for the Albanian-American community. Noli had prepared his own translation of the liturgy into Albanian, and used it also during a tour several major cities of Europe in 1911. Soon after Albanian independence in 1912, Noli (who in 1924 would also be a political figure and prime minister of Albania), traveled to Albania where he would be ordained a bishop and become the head of the church.

We have a long list of albanian orthodox personalities killed by Orthodox Church of Greece and by Patriarchate of Constantinople.

 

[King Bardhyl]

[h=1]Visarion Xhuvani[/h]

Metropolitan Visarion Xhuvani (14 December 1890 – 15 December 1965) was the primate of the Orthodox Autocephalous Church of Albania from 1929 to 1937. He was a main contributor to the autocephaly, and a close collaborator of Fan Noli.
Xhuvani participated in the Congress of Lushnjë, December 1920, being elected senator. He was a member of the Albanian parliament from 1919 to 1924. During this time he cooperated with Noli, emphasizing the need for an Authocphalus Orthodox hurch in Albania, strongly opposing the Patriarchate of Constantinople attempts to keep the Orthodox community under the Greek influence and prohibit the Albanian language from being used in all ceremonies. He was a main contributor in the Orthodox Congress of 1922, where the Autocephaly of the Albanian Orthodox Church was proclaimed.

Xhuvani was elected Primate of OACA in 1929, where King Zog pushed the Autochephaly as a priority of his state.^[3][4] Despite the contradictions, Xhuvani served until 1937, the Church of Constantinople recognized the OACA, adding Xhuvani's removal as an ultimate condition. Xhuvani was forced to resign and was succeeded by Kristofor Kisi. Fan Noli would recall him as one of the most energetic clerics of Albania.^[1] Beside Albanian, Xhuvani knew English, German, Romanian, Serbo-Croatian, Italian, and Old and New Greek languages. He has translated several theological studies into Albanian. He was the promoter of the Kristoforidhi's monument in the main plaza of Elbasan.

During World War II he helped Jewish families by providing fake documents of Albanian nationality and citizenship^[5] while serving as Bishop of Berat.


Xhuvani's contribution to the Autocephaly of the Albanian Church was immense. He stands right by Noli on this point of view.
The Autocephalic Orthodox Church was proclaimed in Berat, on September 12, 1922 with four metropolitans, two seminaries, and twenty nine monasteries. It was not recognized by the Patriarchate in Constantinople which continued to insist Greek was used as language of the liturgy. Despite Noli's attempts taking advantage even of his engagement in politics there was no success in consecrating Albanian bishops. Therefore the Albanian Church turned versus the Patriarchate of Peć which agreed to consecrate them instead. Xhuvani was consecrated bishop in Kotor, Kingdom of Slovenes, Croats, and Serbs from Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, residing in Sremski Karlovci.^[3] He kept good relations with the Yugoslav church and authorities.^[6]
The Patriarch of Constantinople declared that the process was invalid on their point of view.^[7] Xhuvani would take over after Noli's exile and continue on the same path with persistence. As a countermeasure to Greek pressure, the Albanians expelled the bishop Hierotheos and imprisoned the other bishop Kristofor in a monastery, both elected from Constantinople. The relations were frozen for some time due to Xhuvani's strong oppositions to granting any requests to the Greek side. He was considered "an obstacle for the agreement" even from the Albanian government. The Churches of Constantinople and the one of Moscow didn't recognize the Autocephaly, while the Serbian Orthodox Church and the Romanian one recognized it in silence.
New negotiations started in 1935, finalizing on 1937 with the recognition of the Autocepalic Church of Albania by Patriarch Benjamin I of Constantinople. The Albanian side proposed Kristofor Kisi while the Greek side proposed Eulogios Kourilas, an Albanian from Ziçisht^[3] with a very strong pro-Greek background. The delegation from Albanian government (including Koço Kota and Josif Kedhi) agreed on Kurilla's and Kotokos' presence under Kisi's hierarchy, in contradiction with what Xhuvani insisted. Xhuvani was constrained to resign but continued serving the Orthodox church in Albania.

 

[King Bardhyl]

So the role of Orthodox Church of Greece and by Patriarchate of Constantinople has always been negative in Albania's history.




While the Vatican's role has always been positive, during the centuries of Turkish occupation and later, giving a extraordinary help to this small country and without an international support.

I can bring so much evidences but i don`t want to go off-topic.

 

[Yetos]

Hahahahaha,

tell me, which church burries ex-comunicated?


AND BECAUSE I TIRED OF YOUR POISON AND STUPIDITY,

the FIRST WHO DECLARED GREEK REVOLUTION, ALEXANDROS YPSILANTIS
IS STILL EX_COMMUNICATED BY CON/POLIS PATRIARCHAT AND WAS BURRIED IN AUSTRIA.

ΛΑΜΠΡΟΣ ΚΑΤΣΩΝΗΣ ANOTHER GREEK HERO, WHO IS STILL EX-COMUNICATED FROM ORTHODOX CHURCH

KAZANTZAKIS Νικος A GREEK SCHOLAR, EX-COMUNICATED FROM GREEK ORTHODOX CHURCH

FOR YOUR INFORMATION
MORE THAN 63 GREEK HEROES OF GREEK REVOLT, AND MORE THAN 19 Scholars are still ex-comunicated.

and you tell us what?

your stupid and nationalistic ideas?
and church is your what your nightmare?
ex-comunication is ex-comunication,
no matter catholic, no matter orthodox,
ex-comunicated can not be burried in a church/religion holy ground, but in public cemeteries

the rest are in your head,
it is obvious who did and what did,
History has been written, and can not be changed to satisfy you.

now if you want to change the laws of religion,
GO AND TELL PRIESTS WHY THEY DO NOT WANT SUICIDERS TO HOLY GROUNDS AND WHY SOMETIMES DO NOT DO THE BURRIAL CEREMONY IN PUBLIC GROUNDS

cause its religion, by suicide you put your shelf in ex-comunication, etc etc

I never like christianity, But I hate liers, for political reasons,
besides the blind it is you,
search the History of G Maniakis, and G Kastriotis then tell us your story.

 

[King Bardhyl]

Yetos, first don`t make propaganda and don`t go off toppic.
Second i am not interesed about your internal problems.
Third, i repeat:
We have a long list of albanian orthodox personalities killed by Orthodox Church of Greece and by Patriarchate of Constantinople, especailly teachers of albanian language.

One example :

Petro Nini Luarasi

Petro Nini Luarasi (born on April 22, 1864 in Luaras, Kolonjë District, Albania, then Ottoman Empire, and died on 17 August 1911 in Ersekë, Kolonjë District, Albania, then Ottoman Empire) was an Albanian rilindas activist, Christian orthodox priest, teacher and journalist. His father, Nini Petro Kostallari, had also been active in the Albanian National Revival as a publicist and teacher.
Once that he finished the Qestorat seminary school under Koto Hoxhi,^[1] he worked as a teacher in the villages of Kolonjë District, where he taught Albanian in disguise and prepared a number of friends as future teachers of Albanian. In 1887-1893 he opened in Ersekë and in some villages of the Kolonjë District Albanian language schools.
Subsequently he emigrated to the United States in the 1904 - 1908 period, where he was an active member of the Albanian National Movement and initiator of the patriotic associations Motherland Nostalgia (Albanian: Mall i mëmëdheut) and The Pellasgian (Albanian: Pellazgu). Luarasi also worked as a director and teacher of the first Albanian School of the Gjerazi sisters in Korçë and in 1909-1911 he worked as a director of the Negovani school, which had been founded by Papa Kristo Negovani.
He also contributed to the organizations for the Liberation of Albania from the Ottoman Empire.^{[2][3][4][5][6]}
Petro Nini Luarasi was one of the delegates of the Monastir Congress that sanctioned the creation of the Albanian alphabet in 1908. For his patriotic deeds, teaching of the Albanian language and social activism he was persecuted both by the Young Turks and the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople. He died poisoned by them on 17 August 1911.^{[3][4][5][6][7]}

Writing Activity

He collaborated, published and was editor in chief with the following magazines:

• Nations's Union (Albanian: Bashkimi i kombit) (published in Monastir during the 1909-1910 period), where he was editor-in-chief;
• Drita, (published in Sofia, Bulgaria during the 1907 - 1908 period);
• The Nation, (Albanian: Kombi) published in Boston, in 1908;
• The Freedom (Albanian: Liria) published in Thessaloniki during the 1909-1910 period.

In these journals he published teaching, poetry and publicistic writings. In his political work Excommunication of the Albanian letters (Albanian: Mallkimi i shkronjave shqipe) and The Diffamation of the Albanian (Albanian: Çpërfolja e shqiptarit) (Manastir, 1911),^[8] he protected the rights of the Albanian people to their own national culture. He propagated the main ideas of the Albanian National Revival which were those of uniting the Albanian people in their fight for the freedom of Albania, no matter the religious beliefs.^[2]
Recognition

Petro Nini Luarasi has been awarded by the Albanian Government the title People's Teacher of Albania. A high school bears his name in Tirana, Albania.^[9] On 13 January 2012 the President of Albania, Bamir Topi decorate Luarasi after death Honor of Nation Order of Albania.^[10]



Work titles

• Articles in Drita, Sofje, 1907–1908, as editor-in-chief of the paper;
• Excommunication of the Albanian letters (Albanian: Mallkimi i shkronjave shqipe) Manastir, 1911;
• The Diffamation of the Albanian (Albanian: Çpërfolja e shqiptarit) Manastir, 1911.

Your church made the Excommunication of the Albanian letters, excommunicated the albanian language not just persons.
So, pls stop.

 

[Garrick]

Wrong. Independent Serbian state was founded in 1217, after the Byzantine power declined. There are very few historical record about the region, due to the late introduction of literacy in Serbia. Read the points in the #1 post of the article, which contain enormous differences. And think it over again. The topic is not about relations between nations or subordinance , it is about civilizations and history.

Your assumptions have not foothold.

When you saw that Maddison's book disproves your assumptions you started to mix different things.

Balkans and Serbia in Middle ages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Balkans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_in_the_Middle_Ages

However, there is no need to prove the unprovable.

Progress of Western societies starts in time of Humanism and Renaissance.

Hungary is only partially experienced progress due to Humanism and Renaissance, and Balkan countries are not due to Ottoman occupation.

You are angry at Maddison who put Hungary in East European countries, but you put Balkan countries outside Europe, you can see map where is Balkans.

...
Stearsss 555, cycles are variable.

Once Spain and Italy were most developed (at least in Europe), before them Ancient Rome etc.. We can come to Egypt. China was more developed than Europe long time.

And Hungary had hard times, and now much lags behind Western Europe.

Twenty four years ago and more, Yugoslavia (including Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia etc) was more developed than Hungary.

It is completely pointless to argue about "some of this and that", instead of bickering, and insistence of unproven, it is much better to discuss about constructive things and real problems and opportunities.

And, one more thing, do not underestimate people. People (anywhere in the world) can to be less educated but to have a natural wisdom and different experiences.

...
Once again, starting points of assumptions have no foothold, if you want we can write rigorous paper about it. Honestly, there is nothing more constructive to be discussed here, except you give new evidence about of development of countries in Europe and beyond, before 14.-15. century.

...
Openly, because I hang out with the Hungarians and otherwise have a good opinion about Hungarians, very smart people, and Budapest is very beautiful and attractive city (I just do not like Hungarian goulash), probably you are not Hungarian, and I suppose your ethnicity, but I'm not going to think about it, simply here is nothing to say constructively.

 

[Yetos]

Yetos, first don`t make propaganda and don`t go off toppic.
Second i am not interesed about your internal problems.
Third, i repeat:
We have a long list of albanian orthodox personalities killed by Orthodox Church of Greece and by Patriarchate of Constantinople, especailly teachers of albanian language.

One example :

Petro Nini Luarasi

Petro Nini Luarasi (born on April 22, 1864 in Luaras, Kolonjë District, Albania, then Ottoman Empire, and died on 17 August 1911 in Ersekë, Kolonjë District, Albania, then Ottoman Empire) was an Albanian rilindas activist, Christian orthodox priest, teacher and journalist. His father, Nini Petro Kostallari, had also been active in the Albanian National Revival as a publicist and teacher.
Once that he finished the Qestorat seminary school under Koto Hoxhi,^[1] he worked as a teacher in the villages of Kolonjë District, where he taught Albanian in disguise and prepared a number of friends as future teachers of Albanian. In 1887-1893 he opened in Ersekë and in some villages of the Kolonjë District Albanian language schools.
Subsequently he emigrated to the United States in the 1904 - 1908 period, where he was an active member of the Albanian National Movement and initiator of the patriotic associations Motherland Nostalgia (Albanian: Mall i mëmëdheut) and The Pellasgian (Albanian: Pellazgu). Luarasi also worked as a director and teacher of the first Albanian School of the Gjerazi sisters in Korçë and in 1909-1911 he worked as a director of the Negovani school, which had been founded by Papa Kristo Negovani.
He also contributed to the organizations for the Liberation of Albania from the Ottoman Empire.^{[2][3][4][5][6]}
Petro Nini Luarasi was one of the delegates of the Monastir Congress that sanctioned the creation of the Albanian alphabet in 1908. For his patriotic deeds, teaching of the Albanian language and social activism he was persecuted both by the Young Turks and the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople. He died poisoned by them on 17 August 1911.^{[3][4][5][6][7]}

Writing Activity

He collaborated, published and was editor in chief with the following magazines:

• Nations's Union (Albanian: Bashkimi i kombit) (published in Monastir during the 1909-1910 period), where he was editor-in-chief;
• Drita, (published in Sofia, Bulgaria during the 1907 - 1908 period);
• The Nation, (Albanian: Kombi) published in Boston, in 1908;
• The Freedom (Albanian: Liria) published in Thessaloniki during the 1909-1910 period.

In these journals he published teaching, poetry and publicistic writings. In his political work Excommunication of the Albanian letters (Albanian: Mallkimi i shkronjave shqipe) and The Diffamation of the Albanian (Albanian: Çpërfolja e shqiptarit) (Manastir, 1911),^[8] he protected the rights of the Albanian people to their own national culture. He propagated the main ideas of the Albanian National Revival which were those of uniting the Albanian people in their fight for the freedom of Albania, no matter the religious beliefs.^[2]
Recognition

Petro Nini Luarasi has been awarded by the Albanian Government the title People's Teacher of Albania. A high school bears his name in Tirana, Albania.^[9] On 13 January 2012 the President of Albania, Bamir Topi decorate Luarasi after death Honor of Nation Order of Albania.^[10]



Work titles

• Articles in Drita, Sofje, 1907–1908, as editor-in-chief of the paper;
• Excommunication of the Albanian letters (Albanian: Mallkimi i shkronjave shqipe) Manastir, 1911;
• The Diffamation of the Albanian (Albanian: Çpërfolja e shqiptarit) Manastir, 1911.

So, pls stop.

Ok I had enough,

he was killed by Con/polis patriarchat?

what is next?

you tottaly changed the subject by your imaginations, so plz stop.

Byzantine church help in translation of Bible,
Byzantine church create patriarchats there wher no existed,
Byzantine church ex-comunicated Greek revolt Heroes, and Greek scholars,

and now you tell me that killed an Albanian nationalist?

you should be ashamed,

If Byzantine church was to kill someone, really dangerous, that could be Ismael kenan who study in Orthodox schools in Ioannina,
the rest is your fictional stories and your imagination,
ex-communication is ex-communication, no matter Orthodox Catholic Arabian African,
but I am not expecting from a muslim to understand it.

Besides you did not answer me,
byzantine church gave birth to 3 Patriarchates, and is about o give to a 4rth?
why Brazil for example or Germany does not have its own?


your sick methods, show who you are and what you want and up to,

I do not give a penny to guys like you,
but I will stay here, to reject your poisonous lies.


you are so blind that you can not even see the finger when they show you the moon,
Con/polis Patriarchate ex-communicated more than 63 Greek revolt heroes, and more than 19 scholars.

the first who declare Greek indipendence died in Austria ex-communicated,
now search elsewhere,
ex-communication does not mean kill,
search who did not want Albanian indepence,

 

[King Bardhyl]

Papa Kristo Negovani

Papa Kristo Negovani, born Kristo Harallambi, and also known as Kristo Negovani (1875 - February 12, 1905) was an Albanian nationalist figure, religious leader and writer^{[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]}

Biography

Born in the village of Negovan, now part of Florina in Northern Greece, then Manastir Vilayet, Ottoman Empire, he pursued his secondary schooling in Athens, Greece and later emigrated to Brăila, Romania. There, he came into contact with the Albanian National Revival movement. In 1897, he returned to his native village and worked as a teacher and parish priest.
Negovani transformed his house into a school and taught over one hundred children and adults to read and write Albanian. He preached and said the Divine Liturgy in Albanian, much to the displeasure of the Greek Orthodox hierarchy and was assassinated for his activity on February 12, 1905 by a local pro-Greek band.^{[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]}

I am not describing the way they killed him and five others between them and his brother.
Is from your region West Macedonia.

 

[Yetos]

Papa Kristo Negovani

Papa Kristo Negovani, born Kristo Harallambi, and also known as Kristo Negovani (1875 - February 12, 1905) was an Albanian nationalist figure, religious leader and writer^{[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]}

Biography

Born in the village of Negovan, now part of Florina in Northern Greece, then Manastir Vilayet, Ottoman Empire, he pursued his secondary schooling in Athens, Greece and later emigrated to Brăila, Romania. There, he came into contact with the Albanian National Revival movement. In 1897, he returned to his native village and worked as a teacher and parish priest.
Negovani transformed his house into a school and taught over one hundred children and adults to read and write Albanian. He preached and said the Divine Liturgy in Albanian, much to the displeasure of the Greek Orthodox hierarchy and was assassinated for his activity on February 12, 1905 by a local pro-Greek band.^{[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]}

I am not describing the way they killed him and five others between them and his brother.
Is from your region West Macedonia.

Sorry I know about that guy,
you do not tell the rest,
he was not killed by Con/polis Orthodox but from Greek army,


Why you did not tell the rest about that guy?
your Kristo made a fortune, and cooperate with bandits, and komitatzides
his best friend was Bel-Kamen whos life is very well known, he was attacking from Korytsa to Monasterion to Kozani,

the arque of Korytsas Photios and papa Kristo, Belkamen actions,
maybe you should search better History of Aetos and Flamboyro and Bel Kamen (White Rock in Slavic), and Neve Ska

In the Makedonian struggle, big stories happened,
like the killer of Paulos Melas, and his origin, etc etc,

now when you find why Korytsas Photios and papa Kristo almost fight each other,
as also who was your hero Bel-Kamen and how much fortune they mange to get then you can come back again

your papa Kristo was killed in a battle among Greeks and Bel-Kamenos mens, he was with the pro-Albanian bandits of Bel-Kamenos
later Topal killed Korytsas Photios,

so stop your stupidity about Churches etc etc,

 

[Stears555]

Your assumptions have not foothold.

When you saw that Maddison's book disproves your assumptions you started to mix different things.

Balkans and Serbia in Middle ages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Balkans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_in_the_Middle_Ages

However, there is no need to prove the unprovable.

Progress of Western societies starts in time of Humanism and Renaissance.

Hungary is only partially experienced progress due to Humanism and Renaissance, and Balkan countries are not due to Ottoman occupation.

You are angry at Maddison who put Hungary in East European countries, but you put Balkan countries outside Europe, you can see map where is Balkans.

...
Stearsss 555, cycles are variable.

Once Spain and Italy were most developed (at least in Europe), before them Ancient Rome etc.. We can come to Egypt. China was more developed than Europe long time.

And Hungary had hard times, and now much lags behind Western Europe.

Twenty four years ago and more, Yugoslavia (including Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia etc) was more developed than Hungary.

It is completely pointless to argue about "some of this and that", instead of bickering, and insistence of unproven, it is much better to discuss about constructive things and real problems and opportunities.

And, one more thing, do not underestimate people. People (anywhere in the world) can to be less educated but to have a natural wisdom and different experiences.

...
Once again, starting points of assumptions have no foothold, if you want we can write rigorous paper about it. Honestly, there is nothing more constructive to be discussed here, except you give new evidence about of development of countries in Europe and beyond, before 14.-15. century.

...
Openly, because I hang out with the Hungarians and otherwise have a good opinion about Hungarians, very smart people, and Budapest is very beautiful and attractive city (I just do not like Hungarian goulash), probably you are not Hungarian, and I suppose your ethnicity, but I'm not going to think about it, simply here is nothing to say constructively.

Again, you can't refute with your link that first independent Serbian state was born in 1217.

Orthodox countries are not experienced the renaissance, which was a Catholic (and later also protestant) movement which was born in Italy, because your Orthodox faith. (As you don't experianced former western medieval philosophies (scholasticism) and former Western art forms: Romanesque and gothic architecture.

What was yugoslavia before ww2? Backward rural country. Remember Belgrad had only 100 000 population in 1910, Even Szeged city of Hungary had such 100 000 population.
"Twenty four years ago and more, Yugoslavia (including Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia etc) was more developed than Hungary." Yugoslav economy based on cheap and free Bristish and French loans, and the time of pay-back arrived. It was considered part of the "winner allied side" of ww2. Serbia remained a backward part of yugoslavia (see your infrastructure) , an economic dependent of the richer region of croatians and slovenians.

Western World was in political chaos and economic decline in most of the 14-15th cenuries. Remember the plague which halved most of the population of Western Europe? The real development of the west was in the 11th to the late 13th century. Most towns and cities , the irbanisation appeared in that era. However urbanization stopped and slowed down in the 14 and 15th century. Most of Western Europe was in serious crisis.

By the high western standards, Orthodox Balkan Slavic countries had no material proof of prosperity between the 11-14th century.

 

[Stears555]

Crisis of the Late Middle Ages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_the_Late_Middle_Ages


The Crisis of the Late Middle Ages refers to a series of events in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries that brought centuries of European prosperity and growth to a halt.^[1] Three major crises led to radical changes in all areas of society. They were: demographic collapse, political instabilities and religious upheavals.
A series of famines and plagues, beginning with the Great Famine of 1315–17 and especially the Black Death of 1348, reduced the population perhaps by half or more as the Medieval Warm Period came to a close and the first century of the Little Ice Age began. Along with depopulation came social unrest and endemic warfare. Soil exhaustion, overpopulation, wars, and epidemic diseases helped cause hundreds of famines in Europe during the Middle Ages, including 95 in Britain and 75 in France.^[2][3] In France, the Hundred Years' War, crop failures and epidemics reduced the population by two-thirds.^[4]
Popular revolts in late medieval Europe and civil wars between nobles within countries such as the Wars of the Roses were common—with France fighting internally nine times—and there were international conflicts between kings such as France and England in the Hundred Years' War. The unity of the Roman Catholic Church was shattered by the Western Schism. The Holy Roman Empire was also in decline, in the aftermath of the Great Interregnum (1247–1273), the Empire lost cohesion and politically the separate dynasties of the various German states became more important than their common empire.