Differences between Western(Catholic-Protestant) and Orthodox civilisations.

[King Bardhyl]

If you are receiving mail, which you are think is threatening, report to Admin.

I've done this, time ago.

 

[Yetos]

What you disturb, the fact that i publish a private message or the threatening content ?

Why you post that and the rest of the message?

 

[King Bardhyl]

Why you post that and the rest of the message?

I can make if the moderator give me the permision.

 

[Yetos]

I can make if the moderator give me the permision.

no matter what you say,
the first Greek officers of Albanian origin is a fact,
Greece, in order to support the non racism, opened the gates of military high school, to the first Albanians who were borned in Greece, took Greek citizenship, and their parents are in Greece for more than 20 years,
Greek high military High school has 2 branches, the Foreign and the domestic,
from the foreign every year graduate more than 60 officers 20 naval and 20 pilots and 150 doctors and engineers.
in The domestic are the one who will support Greek army forces, or allied in NATO.
until now from the domestic graduate 35 officers from Slav Makedonia, under special treaty among NATO.
from now on Greek citizens of Albanian origin can pass to serve the Greek military forces,

Thank you.

PS,

you understand Greek very well so stop nonsense

ΗΡΑΚΛΕΙΔΗΣ

BTW you did not ask me how and what I was doing in Devolis?
I think you know the case of Hydroelectric plants and the 'doctor'

 

[Garrick]

What`s the problem Ike? Why you start to speak me?

BTW, DID YOU LIKE MY NEW AVATAR?

Bardhyl
You don't have n Albanian states in your avatar more.

What did you come up with new?

Now, you copy Slavic Macedonians.

Your message is that Ancient Greeks are ancestors of Albanians.

Hmm. But you spoke that Illyrians are ancestors. Actually you mentioned and Pelasgians. And some other Ancients people. Maybe all of them together.

...
Oh no. You just adore Ancient Greece.

 

[King Bardhyl]

Bardhyl
You don't have n Albanian states in your avatar more.

What did you come up with new?

Now, you copy Slavic Macedonians.

Your message is that Ancient Greeks are ancestors of Albanians.

Hmm. But you spoke that Illyrians are ancestors. Actually you mentioned and Pelasgians. And some other Ancients people. Maybe all of them together.

...
Oh no. You just adore Ancient Greece.

Ncncnc, nothing of all of those you say. It`s a little secret.
And you are a new entry in this region , so need other 1500-2000 years to start to understand the secrets .

 

[Garrick]

Ncncnc, nothing of all of those you say. It`s a little secret.
And you are a new entry in this region , so need other 1500-2000 years to start to understand the secrets .

One old Serbian adage says (it is generally, not offense):

"Do you not adorn yourself with extraneous feathers".

 

[King Bardhyl]

Most of medieval Hungarian cathedrals and palaces were destroyed during the Ottoman wars. [/QUOTE]

Hungary and Serbia had very good relations in Middle age, including kinship of Royal families:
http://books.google.rs/books?id=Y0N...ties with hungarians Uros middle ages&f=false

In the time of Ottoman Empire, Serbs were among defenders of Hungary and Austria:

“The Hungarian kings encouraged the immigration of Serbs to the kingdom, and hired many of them as soldiers and border guards.”

“European powers, and Austria in particular, fought many wars against the Ottoman Empire, relying on the help of the Serbs that lived under Ottoman rule. During the Austrian–Turkish War (1593–1606), in 1594, the Serbs staged an uprising in Banat, the Pannonian part of Turkey. Sultan Murad III retaliated by burning the remains of Saint Sava the most sacred saint of all Serbs. Serbs created another center of resistance in Herzegovina, but when peace was signed by Turkey and Austria, they were abandoned to Turkish vengeance.

“The Great War between Ottomans and the Holy League took place from 1683 to 1699. The Holy League was created with the sponsorship of the Pope and including Austria, Poland and Venice. These three powers incited the Serbs to rebel against the Ottoman authorities, and soon uprisings and guerrilla warfare spread throughout the western Balkans, ranging from Montenegro and the Dalmatian coast to the Danube basin and Old Serbia (Macedonia, Raška, Kosovo and Metohija).”

Etc.
...
Balkan nations, especially Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs, had hard time five centuries under Ottoman Empire, Islamic rule and Sharia law.

Prior to Ottoman conquest, Balkan regions were developed as other European regions, but under Ottoman rule these regions enormous lagged. ...

Hungarian king Louis I of Hungary, who ruled 1342-1382, had idea to unite Balkan nations, Serbs, Bosnians, Bulgarians and Wallachians against Ottomans.

He wanted that they convert to Roman Catholicism and make a united front against Muslim inviders.

But Ottomans were penetrated rapidly and they were numerous superior against defender militaries.

Serbs lost two key battles, battle of Marica, 1371 and battle of Kosovo, 1389.
And other nations lost their battles, Balkans became territory of Ottoman Empire.
...
And Hungarians lost battles, and part of Hungary were Ottoman territory, but much time shorter than Balkan.
Possible it is reason why ISIS included Hungary (as Slovakia and Austria) in Caliphate, the part of Caliphate called Orobpa).

You can see this map in Internet, and in forum you would be find it in related threads.

Let`s speak about serbian myths:

Some nations show restraint, shyness, or reluctance when it comes to exalting historical events and national heroes. India, for example, a country where thousands of myths originated, has refrained from underscoring the deeds of her national heroes.
Sylvain, Levy, India: "India does not have that worship of great men so important to us ... India has given birth to an exceptional genious, Asvaghosha ... Asvaghosha belongs entirely to Western learning" (cited by J. Grenier, "Imaginary India," Les lIes, Gallimard, 1959).
Conversely, it has become the characteristic of the Serb nation - as various scholars have observed - to glorify personages and events associated with nationalists pride. For imaginative, sentimental, or other reasons which shall not be examined here, the Serbs have created nationalistic myths as India has created religious ones.

Illustrative of this conception are a few examples picked at random from various books:
"Dusan’s achievement became more than a historical memory. It was to constitute a political programme for the Serbs who, early in the nineteenth century, were liberated from over five centuries of Turkish rule" (H.C. Darby [and others] ,A short history of Yugoslavia from early times to 1966, London, Cambridge U.P. 1966, p. 87) II "Nineteenth-century British statesmen did not use the affairs of Plantagenet England as an argument in forming their policy, but the memory of Dusan’s Empire, kept alive by folk-tales and ballads, was an important factor in the "Eastern Question" and the "Macedonia Problem" (ibidem). // "Urosh III who was murdered by his son Stefan Dushan was regarded as a saint although he had revolted against his own father, murdered his own brother and sought to murder his own son" (Temperley, op. cit., p. 63-64) II "Czar Stefan was named "Dushan" because he strangled his father, but his name is interpreted as ‘victorious’, (K. Jirecek, Geschichte derSerben, p. 365-366). II Plusieurs de leurs rois ont ete eleves au rang des saints de cette eglise sans l’avoir toujours merite par leur conduite" — "In this Church, several of their kings were elevated to the rank of saints without always deserving it through their conduct" (A. Boue, La Turquie d’Europe, II p. 65). II "Historically, Marko Kraljevich is a petty Serbian chieftain who served under the Turks against his Christian brethern when it paid him to do so... but popular imagination had attached to him the attributes of the ancient war-God" (Durham, Some Tribal . . . p. 108).
In so doing, however, they have insisted to the extreme upon the rights of their own nation which clash with those of other nations.

True, for instance, the Battle of Kosova, so greatly exalted by the Serbo-Montenegrins since Karadzic's time, was an important and sad event for the Slavs. However, when viewed objectively, one must concede that this battle, as specialist have not failed to remark - was not fought by the Serbs alone, but by a coalition of Balkan nations: Bulgarians, Vlachs, and Albanians (including 10 000 Croats). As a consequence, these nations should be imparted the merit due to them. Various sources suggest that the most numerous troops were the Albanian and that they were placed in the front rows.

The important role of the Albanians in this battle is attested by Greek and Turkish sources: Hierax, Chronique sur l’Empire des Turcs, Sathas, Bibliotheca Graeca, I, p. 247. See also S. Pulaha, The Albano-Turkish War in Ottoman sources (in Albanian), Tirana, 1968 and Enciklopedija Jugoslavije, knj. 4, Zagreb, 1960, p. 467.
The Ottoman army was led by Sultan Murad I and the military commander Evrenos Bey. The battle began with the advance of the Serbian cavalry and Albanian infantry, which completely destroyed the left wing of the Ottoman. Problems for the Christians began when Vuk Branković betrayed and withdrew and the Ottomans were finally achieved by substantial reinforcements and were thus able to defeat the enemy army, tired and outnumbered.

Practically the whole Serbian and Albanian nobility was exterminated on the spot along with Albanian Princ Teodor I Muzaka and Serbian Prince Lazar Hrebeljanović.

Source: Historia ovvero Historia turco-bizantina 1341-1462 Ducas

Besides, the victory of the Turks in that battle is said to have been occasioned by the treason of Vuk Branković, Knez Lazar's son-in-law, who deserted to the Turks at the critical point of the battle with a large number of Serbs.


At the turn of the century, an attempt was made by the Serbian intelligentzia to deny the betrayal (see A. Arnautovic, La poesie kossovienne, Paris (pamphlet, reprint from Revue You goslave, 1919).


The important role of myths becomes evident when one thinks that the Battle of Nikopolis on the Danube, where the army of Sigismond of Hungary fought in 1395 against Beyazit, was just as decisive as that of Kosova, and perhaps as important, according to some scholars, as the very capture of Constantinople by the Turks. Yet we are heedless of its importance because of lack of myths. The Turkish victory on this battle is also due to the Serb troops fighting on the Turkish side, Beyazid being married to the sister of Stefan Lazarevic.

.... . This victory of Islam was to no small degree due to the Servian troops fighting on the Turkish side. The Servians recovered Belgrade, but in the long run this gain hardly compensated them for the disaster which they prepared by strengthening the Ottoman Empire," (C.N. E. Eliot, Turkey in Europe, 1965 ed. p. 41).

”Furthermore, in response to Turkish pressure, some Serbian noblemen wed their daughters, including the daughter of Prince Lazar, to Bayezid. In the wake of these marriages, Stefan Lazarević became a loyal ally of Bayezid, going on to contribute significant forces to many of Bayezid’s future military engagements, including the Battle of Nicopolis.”,( The Ottoman Empire, 1700–1922 By Donald Quataert, p. 26)

As to the hero of Kosova Battle, widely sung by the Serbs in the 19th century, most people will perhaps show surprise at learning that in all likelihood he was Albanian. His name, which was not recorded in Serbian church documents - perhaps for the simple reason that he might have been Catholic, perhaps also for other motives - became known to us thanks to a casual traveler and through Turkish documents: originally Copal - which is Albanian - it was Serbized, as were at that time other Albanian names, thus becoming Kopilic. In the 18th century, Kopil, Kopilic, underwent another modification and at present is merely known as Obilic.

Dragutin, Kostic, "Milos Kopilic — Kobilic — Obilic," Revue Internationale des etudes balkaniques, 1935, I, pp. 232-254. According to Kostic, the absence of the hero’s name from Serbian docments may be attributed to the chroniclers’ habit of mentioning merely names of well-known nobles. Evidently, Milos did not come from a prominent family.
The Balkan word Kopil (non-Slavic) is considered by F. Miklosic (Etym Worterb. d. Slav. Spr.) and by Skok (Juznoslav Fil XII p. 142) as being of Albanian origin. In Albanian it also has the meaning of smart, skilled. Kostic has indicated two localities by that name.
Surprisingly, Kostic attributes also to the first name of the hero an Illyro-Albanian ongin. Duje Rendic-Miosevic has shown clear evidence that some old Croatian names have an Illyrian origin: e.g. Licca, Pleto (Illyr. = Liccavus, Pletor), among many others (see D. Rendk-Miocevic, "Prilog proucavanju nase ranosredovjecne onomastike," Starohrvatska pros vj eta, ser. III, 1949, 1, pp.9-21). Considering that the Illyrians inhabited the Dalmatian coast before the coming of the Slavs, this fact might seem perfectly normal—the very name of Dalmatia is of Illyrian origin. But to attribute to Milos, which has eventually become so popular a name among the Slavs seems curious. Yet Kostic remarks that the name does not appear in Serbian documents before the 13th century and even then is not used by people of high rank. Kostic argues that Milos may be the Slavized form of the Albanian mir and osh. Kostic links the suffix osh (and ush) to Albanian. He points out that it is added to adjectives; thus bardh-bardhosh; kuq-kuqalosh; vogel-voglush, voglosh. The suffix is also used with names; thus Belush, Tanush, Mirush, etc.
Obilic’s hypersensitiveness to suspicions expressed by others as to his word of honor (besa), also reveals, in Kostic’s opinion, his Albanian origin. Finally, Kosticc refers to Elezovic who has pointed out the cult professed by the Albanians for Obilic.
According to Prof. S. Skendi (Balkan Cultural Studies, East European Monographs, Boulder, dif. Columbia Univ., 1980, p. 147, no. 13), M. Budimir has expressed a similar opinion in "Digenis und Marko Kraljevic," Extrait des Actes de 4e Congres international des etudes byzantines (Bul. de l’irist. archeol. bulgare, tome 10, 1936, Sofia, 1936, p. 17. — I have not been able to consult this study.).
“Albert Lord of Harvard University stated in 1982 that Albanian epic songs about the Battle of Kosovo were not translations of the Serbian epic songs, as was previously thought. Lord argues that the two traditions emerged more or less independent of each other. According to him, major elements of the Albanian tale of the assassination of Sultan Murad cannot be found in the corresponding Serbian accounts, while these elements can be traced to Albanian folklore. The Serbian and the Albanian traditions came into contact in the region of Sandžak, where they were fused.”…(Lord, Albert (1984). “The Battle of Kosovo in Albanian and Serbocroatian Oral Epic Songs”. Studies on Kosova. East European Monographs 155. ISBN 9780880330473)
Such for the Battle of Kosova.

 

[Garrick]

Division of Christianity (Roman Catholic and Orthodox) is purely political in nature, the sources are exactly the same including Old and New Testaments.

There's nothing more clever to say.

...
Great thread of Byzantium is open, there could be interesting themes for discussion.