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Thread: shapes and collective classifications: attempt

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    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    He reminds me of Martins Dukurs Olympic Silver skeletonist from Latvia. You can check his picture in wiki/google.
    Or am I totally missing the point? :)

    maybe, but very less typical: too fleshy: but the same tendancy towards a shallow mandible - I cannot see too well the skull shape, it seems a bit higher than in my type -
    I could imagine some "danubian" impact but it is guess, not science -
    concerning my "model" he seems to me very close to the 'long barrows' type's mean: it could signify these megalithers of Atlantic reached farther than S-Scandinavia?
    what mix of Y-HG? what mix of mt-Hg'S ?

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    here some Israelians: maybe not all of them born in Israel but the majority I suppose - they are not completely homogenous, but their globally Near-Eastern affiliation is very more evident than for Askheanzes I saw in Europe!

    photos Israeliens A.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    here some Israelians: maybe not all of them born in Israel but the majority I suppose - they are not completely homogenous, but their globally Near-Eastern affiliation is very more evident than for Askheanzes I saw in Europe!

    photos Israeliens A.jpg
    Most of these people have roots in north Africa or west Asia. Bar Refaeli is Israeli but if I may be fair, she's very fair. Israeli is a nationality, so you can have Israelis like Bar Refaeli and Israelis like Eyal Golan.

    P.S Bar Refaeli isn't fully Ashkenazi (she's part Italian Jewish).

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    whan I say Near-Eastern, I think Eastern Med's in a sense
    others

    photos Israeliens capturées C.jpg

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    Bar Refaeli:
    file:///C:/Users/user/Downloads/bar_rafaeli.jpg


    Eyal Golan:

    file:///C:/Users/user/Downloads/2577059490.jpg

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    the so called 'danubian mediterranean' type of COON, associated to danubian LBK and S-E Anatolia peasants, is very difficult ti define on current people today - COON thought it was the second component associated to his 'corded' type (for me the unique 'nordic' basic type) would have produced what he called his 'Hallstatt Iron Age type -

    I'm confused, but based only upon metric description not too complete, sometimes contradictory definitions by old scholars, I put here NOT TRUE "danubians" but people showing for me some 'danubian imput' - by the way COON, if I correctly recall thought that a brachycephalized ('alpine' influence) 'danubian' with some slihht 'mongoloid' imput would have procuced his 'neodanubian type', element present in 'east-baltic' type associated principally with 'borreby' (broadly said, brutal or not, rather the non brutal variant) - what seems sensible - means final types again, not basic - the more eminent trait was a very very high skull and almost vertical forehead

    so it's more bet than God 's truth

    photo attenuated danubian nordic accr- 1 sue.PNGphoto méditer-danubian bone structure 1+ accret- tch.PNGphoto mixed danubian bone structure 1 isl.PNGphoto mediterranean danubianlike + div. accret. isr.PNG

    from left to right:swede, dolicho-meso, Czech, dolicho-meso, Islandman, dolicho, Israelian, apprently dolicho-meso
    they are heterogenous as it is previsible, as crossings, but show all the high crania, vertical forehead very cerebral, and opposite to what said some scholars, even crossed, they show a tendancy towards little faces but NOT TO NARROW ones so???
    concerning face COON said spite their light skeletons, they have noses far from being typically 'mediterranean' - He dobted even they were all dark pigmented!!! Perhaps he huad truth on his side for this detail??? Wait and see next discoverings...
    taht said I would prefer have the true ancient 'danubians' in front of me, and not this honorable but "crossed" persons I selected without too much certitude-

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Most of these people have roots in north Africa or west Asia. Bar Refaeli is Israeli but if I may be fair, she's very fair. Israeli is a nationality, so you can have Israelis like Bar Refaeli and Israelis like Eyal Golan.

    P.S Bar Refaeli isn't fully Ashkenazi (she's part Italian Jewish).
    I'm aware and I make the difference between 'Jews' of the diaspora(s), Sionistes freshly arrived in Israel and old Israelians: but a sa whole the most of the people I pictured here as more typical to "autochtonous Israelians" than to Askhenazes of N-Europe

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I'm aware and I make the difference between 'Jews' of the diaspora(s), Sionistes freshly arrived in Israel and old Israelians: but a sa whole the most of the people I pictured here as more typical to "autochtonous Israelians" than to Askhenazes of N-Europe
    I see. Thanks for the clarification.

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    danubians (follow)

    this type today drown in a sea of better represented type in Turkey as well as in Central Europe (and other modern Slavic lands) is very difficult to submarize as I saw -
    they seem having crossed with an heavy enough 'alpine' component in West-Central Europe -
    spite the 'southern' assignation made by scientists (Coon was more reserved concerning the geographical origin)
    what remained easy enough to tell among today people is the very high roofed crania higher than the whole face, an apparently short enough and snub fleshy nose tip ("opposite" to 'mediterranean' paradygmus, and as a relic of an ancient human stage, as among 'cromagnoids' and even 'brünnoids') and very light lower jaw, narrow, but the bigozymatic are broad enough, this aspect of face being more 'mediterranean' - its the face and the light body which seem pushing scientists to make a 'mediterranean' of it -

    photo danubien Roman Pr'ikryl hockey Tchèque.PNG

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    danubian (parlty as you know)

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    alpin Yougoslave B1.jpg
    one more 'alpine'like type (Yougoslavia, maybe Croatia)

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc View Post
    The Iberian Gracile Meds posted in this thread have a strong South Mediterranid/Arabid influence. The South Italian player has a Dinarid/Armenid influence. The Israelian and the South East French players look like light North Africans.

    How would you classify these soccer players?





    Joeyc
    it's easier to pick up some typicalguys than to evaluate more mixed people – it's only a gamechallenge for me because without measures and other angles of viewit's very hard – all what I'll say is guess and bet -
    1° guy : hyperdolicho ? -narrowfaced, highfaced but strong lower jaw and chin, upperface shortenough compare to chin (# typical mediter), mean nose (# typicalmediter) – thick inferior lip (mediter) - middle-dark brown hair(nordic-mediter?) - narrow forehead – low limit of slightly wavyhead hairs (mediter) -
    the high face and chink can be linkedto stature for a part but I think he is a good example of what wascalled a crossing between 'nordic' and 'atlanto-mediter'(« megalither » of someones), as awhole he could beEnglish – I think he has more chances to be from Northern Italy orSpanish but...


    2° guy : meso ? Subbrachysmall headed ? - robust face, bony – short nose – very darkhaired, blackish brown ? - very low limit of straight head hair– perhaps a high statured man – hard to analyse – I would putsome pennies on a partial dinaric mixture or process, and a remotewest-balkanic origin – more chances to be from Northeastern Italyif Italian ?


    3° guy : dolicho – middleproportions face with a light preponderance of cheekbones (smallmediter) but the jaw angles are strong enough – very short nose (#typical mediter) – thin enough lips (# mediter) – wavymiddle-dark brown hair, low on forehead (mediter) – as awhole 'mediter', except some archaic traits maybe linked to aprevious population in Mediterranea (absorbed 'cromagnoids' ? -more in Southern Italy but also in other places of Mediterranea -


    4° guy : subdolicho ? -little mean face, almost bread in proportions – maybe very-darkbrown or blackish brown hair - straight hair (# typical mediter),very low on the forehead (mediter, but not only) – little thinshort nose (# typical mediter) - curiously his face seems fragile ifbroad at the cheekbones but is frontal is very « brutal »shaped : a reduced so called archaic mediter withgracilized shapes ? Some Portugueses and Sardinians show thisassociation of brutal shaped skull with rude enough face but the faceis reduced in height, always with preponderance of cheekbones uponlower jaw breadth – local evolution on cousins of 'eurafrican' ?– so local peculiarities can evolve in partly isolated regions on apreviously common stock – his nose shape nevertheless is notmediter at all –


    5° guy : subdolicho ? - darkbrown or blackish brown head hair, less low on forehead, wavy hair ?- fleshy round nose (# typical mediter) – thin lips (# mediter) –slightly wavy hiar ? - mean face with preponderance ofcheekbones upon lower jaw breadth (mediter) – roughly 'mediter' toobut something (a taste) more « northwestern » in details, more «french » (it's moresentiment than constat) -


    the 3° and 5° are more 'mediter' as awhole concerning visible bones, but with some very slight remnants ofsomething else – but the more we go back in past tracing oldfeatures, the more we can suppose different places of origin becausethe subtypes surely were less numerous converging into only 2 or 3types, and occupied larger territories – we see by instance verytypical remnants of the cro-magnon pattern, for faces, spred fromIreland to Pakistan and to Finland... also other features common tocapelloid-brünnoid, and also partly to 'chancelade' (less brutal), Isuppose to be a southern cousin of them as eurafrican : afterall the first Y-I and Y-J bearers were surely close enough at somestage) - but other parts of body and hidden organs can having evolvedvery far -


    all these bets without any seriousguarantee !!!

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    I'have a big problem
    I cannot attach pictures whatever the size and the system PNG, JPG... when I have did that more than a time before
    always the same answer: "exceed your quota by N... KB" (the weight of the picture)
    I'm very sad and it could bring me to an alcoholic addiction...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I'have a big problem
    I cannot attach pictures whatever the size and the system PNG, JPG... when I have did that more than a time before
    always the same answer: "exceed your quota by N... KB" (the weight of the picture)
    I'm very sad and it could bring me to an alcoholic addiction...
    Don't do that! Moderation in all things.

    I feel your pain. I haven't been able to actually post pictures in ages, even though when you get to a certain level you're not supposed to have a limit on your attachment capability. It's such a pity, because I do so love to post and see visuals as a gestalt.

    Ah well, perhaps we should go on strike?

    Seriously, if you figure out how to do it, please let me know.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Please PM Maciamo about this problem.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I'have a big problem
    I cannot attach pictures whatever the size and the system PNG, JPG... when I have did that more than a time before
    always the same answer: "exceed your quota by N... KB" (the weight of the picture)
    I'm very sad and it could bring me to an alcoholic addiction...
    I have had this problem for years...........Maciano resolution to me was to clear my cookies
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    I've had the same issue too and never understood why.

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    a try for fun
    Attachment 9576

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    some seemingly 'borreby' types more or less "pure"
    Attachment 9582Attachment 9583Attachment 9584Attachment 9585Attachment 9586
    Icelander, Czech, Czech, Murcia Spaniard, Engleman
    concerning the ratio jaw/cheekbones (bigonial/bizygomatic) they are very well on my 'borreby-A' of cromagnoid inspiration, not very far from a robust 'alpin' - the Spaniard seems a bit too higher faced, and the Engleman the more mesocephallic but...as a whole they illustrate what a more or less brachycephalicized cro-magnoid basis can give for phenotype; One can suppose they inherited these traits from a unique pop and not by hazard from convergence of distinct and independant crossings; geographically, the more you get close to the Baltic shores and to some parts of Germanic, Finnic and North Balto-Slavic lands the more you can find people with these shapes.

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    Attachment 9587Attachment 9588
    Czech, Czech
    'Borreby-A' : attenuated, more 'alpinlike'

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I've tried with my own conceptions of these types: my set is not worst than the COOK's ones
    look at post #6 for 'brünnoids' (plus # 7 the second from left, slightly 'nordicized' by very close nevertheless) and to #8 for 'borreby A'

    concerniing body, 'brünnoids' have long neck, very broad shoulders, long enought trunk compared to 'nordic' and the most of 'meds' so short enough legs (a bit bowed), long arms - as 'cromagnoid' they have low but broad orbits - more thick skin than true 'nordics' and 'meds', more body hairs than both (the body haired 'meds' are the ones on the 'indo-irano-afghan' side, or showing some 'cromagnoid' remnants, apparently) - the 'borreby' A is short enough legged too, but with heavier and less broad shoulders, shorter arms, more massive musculature, more fleshy as a whole - strong enough body hairs too - thick skin too - these two types are denser in Western Norway (Rogaland, Hordaland, a bit in Sogn and Sordal), mixed with 'nordic' (a lot) and others (few), and with preponderence of one on the other according to valleys and dales (scientists studies)
    Interesting attempt!!!

    Few primair remarks.

    First it's IMO too much 'Coonian' like polygenism, by that I mean the idee that the pops arose from separate creations.

    Second what about the idea of Gerhardt (who denied the idea of the Borreby) who made this basic typology:


    Third is there any connection to make with for example K12 Ancient? https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ulator-Results
    Or is this too far fetched?

    For now this short posting....I hope it's clear enough for the discussion.....
    Last edited by Northener; 29-12-17 at 17:46.

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    No polygeny in my thoughts, but what is polygeny and monogeny? A good piece of phylosophy.
    I 'll answer you later. Thanks for the Gerhard's drawings, a bit wrong by the way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    No polygeny in my thoughts, but what is polygeny and monogeny? A good piece of phylosophy.
    I 'll answer you later. Thanks for the Gerhard's drawings, a bit wrong by the way.
    To be more precise in the earlier days Coon was pretty stucked to typology (has something 'fixed'), later on he embraced a more adaptive approach.....

    A good article about this:

    http://digitalassets.lib.berkeley.ed...kas084-004.pdf

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