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Thread: Bones of Macedonian King Philip II, Alexander the Great's father, have been found.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Bones of Macedonian King Philip II, Alexander the Great's father, have been found.


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    It would be great if they could test Philip's genome as well as his Scythian wife (Alexander's mother). This way we could get Alexander's two haplogroups and infer his autosomal composition.
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    Is DNA extraction possible after cremation?

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    the bones of phillip 2nd is old case,
    The Greek ministry of culture does give permission,

    yesterday we have a significant search result by Democritos institute,
    an institude wich is the only in Greek which is allowed to make search on everything that has to do with radio-activites,

    All the wounds in the bones are exactly with what we know for King Phillip 2, except the eye,
    that means either no wound in the eye, either a clear wound that did not touch the bones,

    man
    age 41-49 years old
    wound at left hand (4o μεταταρσιο)
    suffer years from ιγμοριτις ( among eyes and nose, heavy cold)
    suffer from pleuritis of phymatiosis (pneumons)
    an almost ruin back (αλοιωσεις σπονδυλικης) from horse riding for years and much time,
    fat/thickness of the legs also from horse riding,
    traces of gold found in the neck bones!!!!! it could be from the burning

    THE amazing
    not both bodies have unequal legs
    so from that we know that the woman burried next to him had a broken left leg like King Phillip 2,
    also fat/thickness from horse riding,

    by the legs only we know that the first known Royal couple with 'special needs' in buried there,
    and this nothing else that King Phillip and Ataia daughter of Ateas of Scythians.

    rest foundings
    Χουντιτης,
    a matterial used to whiten textiles, is this case is local material from upper Makedonia extracted from 1500 BC,
    pine resin, wax, etc etc,
    Χουντιτης is known for Orphic mysteries masks, meaning that King was also a priest of Orpheus, or a similar Deity like dionysos
    many times i said about Thracian tribe Pieroi and Orpheus in mt Olymp,

    until yesterday we knew about Olympias that she was priestress of orpheus or Bakchos a κλωδων.
    now we know that the king was also priest.
    Besides their marriage was blessed by the Samothrace priests and mysteries, one of the three most powerfull, (Dodona Zeus, Delphi and souround Appolo, Samothrace Kabyres, and the Lesser, Cretan Zeus, Ephessus Artemis, and one in south Italy that I miss now)

    about the mask, simmilar exist in Manchester museum, found in Egyptian Pyramids !!!!!!!! (now I am lost )
    but made from Tynisian χουντιτης,

    anyway, Both Democritos institute and Phd Mr Αντικας who is in contact with American universities ask Ministry to allow genetical tests.
    lets hope they find an inner inner inner spot that fire and carbon did not affect.

    simmilar the military equipment of the woman is found in India !!!!! and in Danube.
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    the scientists are not sure of the identity of the woman yet. The article says:
    The finding reinforces the assumption made by Hammond as early as 1978 that the spears, arrows, quiver and greaves belonged to a warrior queen in Philip's royal household. Among the candidates proposed by Hammond were Meda, Cynna (the offspring of Philip and Audata, an Illyrian warrior princess) and an unknown daughter of the Scythian king Ateas, defeated by Philip in 339 B.C.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by kamani View Post
    the scientists are not sure of the identity of the woman yet. The article says:
    I am tired of your Panalbanism and panillyrianism,

    The lecture was yesterday, 10/10/2014
    with participation of 30 universities, in Aristotkle University, and you still say about hammond and 1978,

    http://www.tribune.gr/greece/news/ar...-filippou.html

    http://news247.gr/eidiseis/psixagogi...a.3075180.html

    The Woman is Ataia from Atea King Of Scythians, by Scientific results, and by archaiological results,
    Her guns found in India and danube,

    Now if you want to claim that Illyrians or Albanians are also scythians is your problem


    all the searches show the original believe, Makedones were Greeks and mixed with Thracians, (king and priest)



    besides the Discovery article say,

    "This leads to the conclusion that the pair of mismatched greaves -- the left is shorter --the Scynthian gorytus and weaponry found in the antechamber belonged to her," he said.
    Scythian king Ateas, defeated by Philip in 339 B.C.
    Only King Phillip messed up with Scythians


    today we know the woman was scythian, that is why we are certain of Phillip 2nd and not Phillip 3rd.

    they found even the clothes systatic material, even sea sponge is possible to was used, cause they find traces of something like it


    .Ο πολεμικός οπλισμός της Σκύθισσας εντοπίσθηκε και σε άλλους 112 τάφους μεταξύ Ινδών και Δούναβη με τα ίδια όπλα που βρέθηκαν στο βασιλικό «τάφο δύο»» κατέληξε ο Θόδωρος Ακρίτας.

    'simmilar weaponry found in 112 tombs from India to Istros,'

    IT IS CERTIFIED THE WOMAN WAS SCYTHIAN.
    except if you believe that illyrians came from India to Danube.

    the woman's leg are so thick that she mounted at the age of 32 +- more than king Phillip
    and she was an archer, a mounted woman archer, an amazon,

    PS
    aren't you tired guys? to smash the mosquito and swell the camel


    PS 2
    http://news.discovery.com/history/ar...nd-1410091.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I am tired of your Panalbanism and panillyrianism,
    what panalbanism!! I just quoted from the main article. Get mad at the article, whose meaning you so deviously changed.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by kamani View Post
    what panalbanism!! I just quoted from the main article. Get mad at the article, whose meaning you so deviously changed.
    noted

    but it completely kills off the Albanians saying that alexander's mother was illyrian
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    noted

    but it completely kills off the Albanians saying that alexander's mother was illyrian





    You are very neat to stimulate debate among others, but you are unable to conduct a debate personally to the end.

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    It is so frustrating that DNA testing isn't one of the first things done on ancient remains. Hopefully this opportunity isn't lost, if they have bones then they can certainly get DNA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I am tired of your Panalbanism and panillyrianism,

    The lecture was yesterday, 10/10/2014
    with participation of 30 universities, in Aristotkle University, and you still say about hammond and 1978,

    http://www.tribune.gr/greece/news/ar...-filippou.html

    http://news247.gr/eidiseis/psixagogi...a.3075180.html

    The Woman is Ataia from Atea King Of Scythians, by Scientific results, and by archaiological results,
    Her guns found in India and danube,

    Now if you want to claim that Illyrians or Albanians are also scythians is your problem


    all the searches show the original believe, Makedones were Greeks and mixed with Thracians, (king and priest)



    besides the Discovery article say,

    "This leads to the conclusion that the pair of mismatched greaves -- the left is shorter --the Scynthian gorytus and weaponry found in the antechamber belonged to her," he said.
    Scythian king Ateas, defeated by Philip in 339 B.C.
    Only King Phillip messed up with Scythians


    today we know the woman was scythian, that is why we are certain of Phillip 2nd and not Phillip 3rd.

    they found even the clothes systatic material, even sea sponge is possible to was used, cause they find traces of something like it


    .Ο πολεμικός οπλισμός της Σκύθισσας εντοπίσθηκε και σε άλλους 112 τάφους μεταξύ Ινδών και Δούναβη με τα ίδια όπλα που βρέθηκαν στο βασιλικό «τάφο δύο»» κατέληξε ο Θόδωρος Ακρίτας.

    'simmilar weaponry found in 112 tombs from India to Istros,'

    IT IS CERTIFIED THE WOMAN WAS SCYTHIAN.
    except if you believe that illyrians came from India to Danube.
    Yes, according Oliver Masson based on Pella tablet Macedonian was North West Greek dialect.

    Macedonians were Greeks.

    And it is interesting that one of woman of Filip II was Scythian.

    It is science.

    Hmm, it does not fit in propaganda of Enver Hoxha type:

    Alexander the Great was Illyrian ^ Illyrians were Albanians => Alexander the Great was Albanian

    ...
    But. Maybe Illyrians are also Scythians and same as Albanians? Perhaps this hypothesis make sense.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Bardhyl View Post
    You are very neat to stimulate debate among others, but you are unable to conduct a debate personally to the end.
    lol, what is there to debate about, its stated on the site....she is scythian..................your a strange person. Debating with you last time led to you moving from the ancients to the modern which had nothing to do with the debate...........ooh, and then their is this quote from you " what was the road in this city" ( what are you talking about )

    I enjoy seeing propaganda being destroyed.............like some who think the celts have been in britain for over 4000 years

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post

    And it is interesting that one of woman of Filip II was Scythian.

    It is science.

    Hmm, it does not fit in propaganda of Enver Hoxha type:

    Alexander the Great was Illyrian ^ Illyrians were Albanians => Alexander the Great was Albanian

    ...
    But. Maybe Illyrians are also Scythians and same as Albanians? Perhaps this hypothesis make sense.
    If albanians where scythians , then the scythians arrived around the time of Phillip II , which would mean the sarmatians are not pure scythians ( maybe only a percentage) and that the bastanae would be part scythian and part germanic.
    IIRC , the bastanae sent 80000 men, women and children to aid the macedonians against their wars against the illyrians coming the north-east.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    lol, what is there to debate about, its stated on the site....she is scythian..................your a strange person. Debating with you last time led to you moving from the ancients to the modern which had nothing to do with the debate...........ooh, and then their is this quote from you " what was the road in this city" ( what are you talking about )

    I enjoy seeing propaganda being destroyed.............like some who think the celts have been in britain for over 4000 years
    Wrong ,i have never made a debate with you, and you know the reason .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Yes, according Oliver Masson based on Pella tablet Macedonian was North West Greek dialect.

    Macedonians were Greeks.

    And it is interesting that one of woman of Filip II was Scythian.

    It is science.

    Hmm, it does not fit in propaganda of Enver Hoxha type:

    Alexander the Great was Illyrian ^ Illyrians were Albanians => Alexander the Great was Albanian

    ...
    But. Maybe Illyrians are also Scythians and same as Albanians? Perhaps this hypothesis make sense.
    Your intellectual discussion serv to us to understand a lot.
    It's a sin that you don't use such arguments at the right place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Bardhyl View Post
    Wrong ,i have never made a debate with you, and you know the reason .
    yes, I know why you don't and you know why I don't

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Bardhyl View Post
    Wrong ,i have never made a debate with you, and you know the reason .
    Mordi e Fuggi .
    More clear?
    BTW, nice photo.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by King Bardhyl View Post
    Your intellectual discussion serv to us to understand a lot.
    It's a sin that you don't use such arguments at the right place.
    You always angry when someone mentions science and difference between science and fiction (propaganda).

    Some Albanians (and some Slavic Macedonians too) shout that Alexander the Great is Albanian (respectively their in the case of Slavic Macedonians), but it is fantasy, we all know that.

    ...
    Macedonian is North-Western Greek dialect, not mythical non-existent fictitious praAlbanian nor praSlavicMacedonian.

    You can read the book (it is science):

    A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, Second edition

    by Carlos Quiles with Fernando Lopez-Menchero

    "The Pella curse tablet, a text written in a distinct Doric Greek idiom, found in Pella in 1986, dated to between mid to early 4th century BC, has been forwarded as an argument that the Ancient Macedonian language was a dialect of North-Western Greek. Before the discovery it was proposed that the Macedonian dialect was an early form of Greek, spoken alongside Doric proper at that time.

    NOTE. Olivier Masson thinks that “in contrast with earlier wiews which made of it an Aeolic dialect (O. Hoffmann compared Thessalian) we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote). This view is supported by the recent discovery at Pella of a curse tablet which may well be the first ‘Macedonian’ text attested (…)< the text includes an adverb “opoka” which is not Thessalian”. Also, James L. O’Neil states that the “curse tablet from Pella shows word forms which are clearly Doric, but a different form of Dorric from any of the west Greek dialects of areas adjoining Macedon. "

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Is DNA extraction possible after cremation?
    No. There exist DNA repair mechanisms in biochemistry & genetics, which can repair damaged DNA; for example BER (Base excision repair), DNA polymerases(for long patches or short patches), lygases... As far I can remember, I was working on the DNA polymerase. I extracted the DNA out (from a fruit (banana ;D) and then used DNA polymerase with a special machine..., then I've added the 10% iodine dilution & observed the chromatid entanglement under the microscope...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    You always angry when someone mentions science and difference between science and fiction (propaganda).

    Some Albanians (and some Slavic Macedonians too) shout that Alexander the Great is Albanian (respectively their in the case of Slavic Macedonians), but it is fantasy, we all know that.

    ...
    Macedonian is North-Western Greek dialect, not mythical non-existent fictitious praAlbanian nor praSlavicMacedonian.

    You can read the book (it is science):

    A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, Second edition

    by Carlos Quiles with Fernando Lopez-Menchero

    "The Pella curse tablet, a text written in a distinct Doric Greek idiom, found in Pella in 1986, dated to between mid to early 4th century BC, has been forwarded as an argument that the Ancient Macedonian language was a dialect of North-Western Greek. Before the discovery it was proposed that the Macedonian dialect was an early form of Greek, spoken alongside Doric proper at that time.

    NOTE. Olivier Masson thinks that “in contrast with earlier wiews which made of it an Aeolic dialect (O. Hoffmann compared Thessalian) we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote). This view is supported by the recent discovery at Pella of a curse tablet which may well be the first ‘Macedonian’ text attested (…)< the text includes an adverb “opoka” which is not Thessalian”. Also, James L. O’Neil states that the “curse tablet from Pella shows word forms which are clearly Doric, but a different form of Dorric from any of the west Greek dialects of areas adjoining Macedon. "
    No, i am not angry, it's a pleasure for me to communicate with you . The problem is that you are off-topic , we can discuss in another thread about this and you know where.

    I have express my opinion about ancient macedonian. You can read my previous posts.
    Never heard before about this Carlos Tequila. Also read the most important scholar about Alexander the Great life, TARN .


    BTW, did you explain to your teacher , your opinion about illyrians, albanians etc. You have to speak with your Ministry of Education in Serbia ,propose them to change your textbook of history in the serbian schools .

    P. S.
    You can't make parallels between albanians and our noble neighbours of FYROM.

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    debate has to do with democracy, and in democracy we learn to accept others opinion, as long as it stated, well based, and possible,
    if an opinion is not stable, or not scientific based, then is not debate, it is faith

    preaching faith, is not a scientific method, cause science accept mistakes, and is using tools to prove the accepted,
    Faith is absolute, correct or mistaken.

    many times I felt in such situation,.
    to make my dogma science? or to accept science and reject my faith,

    simply faith is not science,
    and faith is tricky, and must be excluded in judging (crisis from critising, κριτικη)


    we can all be Jihand when our faith is insulted,
    but non of us becomes Jihand when our science is insulted,
    Why?
    Last edited by Yetos; 12-10-14 at 19:09.

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    nothing ...............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Yes, according Oliver Masson based on Pella tablet Macedonian was North West Greek dialect.

    Macedonians were Greeks.

    And it is interesting that one of woman of Filip II was Scythian.

    It is science.

    Hmm, it does not fit in propaganda of Enver Hoxha type:

    Alexander the Great was Illyrian ^ Illyrians were Albanians => Alexander the Great was Albanian

    ...
    But. Maybe Illyrians are also Scythians and same as Albanians? Perhaps this hypothesis make sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    If albanians where scythians , then the scythians arrived around the time of Phillip II , which would mean the sarmatians are not pure scythians ( maybe only a percentage) and that the bastanae would be part scythian and part germanic.
    IIRC , the bastanae sent 80000 men, women and children to aid the macedonians against their wars against the illyrians coming the north-east.

    hmmm

    intersting case,

    solves a lot of our questions

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    No. There exist DNA repair mechanisms in biochemistry & genetics, which can repair damaged DNA; for example BER (Base excision repair), DNA polymerases(for long patches or short patches), lygases... As far I can remember, I was working on the DNA polymerase. I extracted the DNA out (from a fruit (banana ;D) and then used DNA polymerase with a special machine..., then I've added the 10% iodine dilution & observed the chromatid entanglement under the microscope...

    Any idea how much can recover?

    in vergina tomps we have bones, not ashes,
    ok we consider bones as the dry stereo fragments, but how much?
    outside the are the calciumm phosphates, but how much could left inside?

    we speak about an open cremation above woods, and bones gathered and washed, not smashed,
    different than modern cremation in a machine,
    ok sulfur and carbon get evaporized as gases,
    but could inside the bones small amounts be left? μυελος των οστων, bone myelic traces?


    ok I know that DNA can not be exctrat after cremation, I agree with 'No'
    but I wonder why they ask permission to do DNA tests?
    Last edited by Yetos; 12-10-14 at 19:07.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedun View Post
    No. There exist DNA repair mechanisms in biochemistry & genetics, which can repair damaged DNA; for example BER (Base excision repair), DNA polymerases(for long patches or short patches), lygases... As far I can remember, I was working on the DNA polymerase. I extracted the DNA out (from a fruit (banana ;D) and then used DNA polymerase with a special machine..., then I've added the 10% iodine dilution & observed the chromatid entanglement under the microscope...
    Thank you for the info Verdun. That sounds interesting. I asked the question because a friend of mine contacted a local well qualified coordinator (from the University of Belfast) that is working on the local Megalithic Temples, enquring about dna testing on the bones found on site were no dna has been taken yet.

    The reply was that the reason for not having any DNA tests is because the method till now is not well enough advanced to deal with material from anything other than cooler climates. She also mentioned that DNA is very susceptible to change and decay, and is unreliable in warm climates, hence no ancient DNA from places south of the Alps. She also mentioned that things are changing and a possible breakthrough in methods will allow the team many questions we have (generally speaking). Checking diets is far more reliable then DNA to know from which other populations the temple builders came from (in the local case).

    However my question is if this was true how come we have dna results of 7000 yr old skeletons found in warmer climates? (!) Sorry Im deviating a little but its also in relation to this subject.
    Last edited by Maleth; 12-10-14 at 18:56. Reason: adding more text

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