Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 10 of 20 FirstFirst ... 89101112 ... LastLast
Results 226 to 250 of 494

Thread: Palasgians, pre Ancient Greeks...would their DNA be E-V13?

  1. #226
    King Achievements:
    Three Friends10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Maleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-14
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,908
    Points
    18,015
    Level
    40
    Points: 18,015, Level: 40
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 35
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    EV13 A7136 y18675G+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Malta



    Quote Originally Posted by hrvat22 View Post

    Where is the source of V13 in the Balkans, which is specifically Albanian and Greek V13..?
    You got a non quantum physics answer, and for the third time you ask the same questions. So no offence but I give up, I have better things to do. Enjoy your debate

  2. #227
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,759
    Points
    243,081
    Level
    100
    Points: 243,081, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by hrvat22 View Post
    All haplotypes have mutated and become new and new haplotypes only E1b V13 stayed unchanged...

    Croats are before ten years ago had only I2a and they were brothers with half of Europe, today we have haplotype I2a1b2a1a3 A356... Do you notice a difference..


    You have on Eupedija a lot mutations behind E1b V13..

    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...1b_Y-DNA.shtml
    Croats before ten years ago had only I2a yDNA? Are you serious?

    I hate to break this news to you, but Croatian y DNA has been studied for a while, and all the other haplogroups didn't suddenly appear in the last ten years for goodness sakes...click on the numbers and it will give you a link to the study and its date.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...y_ethnic_group

    Maybe our Balkan members also need to acquaint or re-acquaint themselves with this authoritative paper on Balkan autosomal dna, which is much more informative as to real genetic relatedness:

    Standing at the Gateway to Europe...L. Kovacevik et al:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25148043

    I find it astounding that there is this degree of animosity among the various Balkan groups when you're all so similar to one another.

    Balkan autosomal variation.jpg


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  3. #228
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    01-09-14
    Location
    Zagreb
    Posts
    599
    Points
    5,914
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,914, Level: 22
    Level completed: 73%, Points required for next Level: 136
    Overall activity: 4.0%


    Ethnic group
    Croatian
    Country: Croatia



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Croats before ten years ago had only I2a yDNA? Are you serious?

    I hate to break this news to you, but Croatian y DNA has been studied for a while, and all the other haplogroups didn't suddenly appear in the last ten years for goodness sakes...click on the numbers and it will give you a link to the study and its date.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...y_ethnic_group

    Maybe our Balkan members also need to acquaint or re-acquaint themselves with this authoritative paper on Balkan autosomal dna, which is much more informative as to real genetic relatedness:

    Standing at the Gateway to Europe...L. Kovacevik et al:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25148043

    I find it astounding that there is this degree of animosity among the various Balkan groups when you're all so similar to one another.

    Balkan autosomal variation.jpg

    I2a which Croats had before 10 years ago is now I2a1b2a1a3 A356...or 45% male population of Croats...


    Standing at the Gateway to Europe...L. Kovacevik et al:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25148043

    When you see that it says Croatian mainland instantly you know that it cites research for Croats from year 2003 which is outdated..


    *Croatian mainland from Barac´ et al. (2003)

    http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/conten.../1964.full.pdf

  4. #229
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,759
    Points
    243,081
    Level
    100
    Points: 243,081, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by hrvat22 View Post
    I2a which Croats had before 10 years ago is now I2a1b2a1a3 A356...or 45% male population of Croats...





    When you see that it says Croatian mainland instantly you know that it cites research for Croats from year 2003 which is outdated..


    *Croatian mainland from Barac´ et al. (2003)

    http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/conten.../1964.full.pdf
    Maybe we have a language issue here, and I misunderstood you. Yes, we now have more resolution of the yDna lineages than we had ten years ago. However, Croats are not just yDna I2a, however resolved or unresolved. They carry other ydna lineages as well, which is clearly outlined in the article to which I linked.

    In addition, a man's yDna accounts for about 2% of total genomic make-up. The rest is autosomal dna. Autosomally, there is very little difference between any people in the Balkans, and almost none between the various groups in the western Balkans. The evidence is there, and it's very recent.

  5. #230
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    01-09-14
    Location
    Zagreb
    Posts
    599
    Points
    5,914
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,914, Level: 22
    Level completed: 73%, Points required for next Level: 136
    Overall activity: 4.0%


    Ethnic group
    Croatian
    Country: Croatia



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    . Autosomally, there is very little difference between any people in the Balkans, and almost none between the various groups in the western Balkans. The evidence is there, and it's very recent.

    I2a1b2a1a3 A356 which have Croats comes from White Croatia, the same have Bosniaks, Montenegrins and Serbs in almost half of population.

    R1a Z280 type which have Croats have also Serbs, Bosnians, etc.

    R1a type Z280 has the same epicenter in White Croatia..

    About 65 percent of the male population in Croatia came from White Croatia...

    Similar percentage is in Bosnians, Montenegrins etc .. it is logical that we are same people becouse we came as White Croats on Balkans..Genetically it is undeniable..

  6. #231
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,158
    Points
    38,796
    Level
    60
    Points: 38,796, Level: 60
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 254
    Overall activity: 48.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by hrvat22 View Post
    I2a1b2a1a3 A356 which have Croats comes from White Croatia, the same have Bosniaks, Montenegrins and Serbs in almost half of population.

    R1a Z280 type which have Croats have also Serbs, Bosnians, etc.

    R1a type Z280 has the same epicenter in White Croatia..

    About 65 percent of the male population in Croatia came from White Croatia...

    Similar percentage is in Bosnians, Montenegrins etc .. it is logical that we are same people becouse we came as White Croats on Balkans..Genetically it is undeniable..

    I see you continue play your music, in a solo violin,

    Well NOOOOOOOOO
    R1a in Balkans has nothing to do with ex-I2a2 Din,

    Reason

    Were R1a exists in High, I2a1b is Low,
    were I2ab1 is high R1a is low,
    So stop bullshit,
    go little south, R1a in N Greece, were R1a exists are areas Full of Greek Speakers and Gaulish/Aromanian, in the heart of Dorian homeland, areas away from even what Skopje claim as Slav existance
    and I2a1b is almost upsent,
    Take a look at nearby Bulgaria? where is R1a and where is I2a1b? are they same spot? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    take a look at you country, Croatia,
    DO DALMATIAN AND ZAGREB HAVE SAME ANALOGIES OF R1a AND I2a1b? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    why?
    cause R1a existed in Balkans before the entrance of Croats or Serbs or Bulgarians

    so by observing better the spots better, you make wiser conclusions

    except if you want to tell me that almighty Slavs who cross all the way from Poland or Ukraine and conguer Balkans, siege Con/polis, defeated Romans, Byzantines Turks Avars etc etc
    Had the great ones, Dusan and Cymeon
    ended to become Greeks without a fight,

    even in the chronicles of st Dimitrios, were all slavic tribes who entered Greece are mentioned, with the areas that dwell, we do not have R1a,

    maybe something is wrong,
    either my observation,
    either your conclusion!!!!!!


    thank you
    I love you too
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  7. #232
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603
    Points
    20,999
    Level
    44
    Points: 20,999, Level: 44
    Level completed: 28%, Points required for next Level: 651
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Serbia



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Maybe we have a language issue here, and I misunderstood you. Yes, we now have more resolution of the yDna lineages than we had ten years ago. However, Croats are not just yDna I2a, however resolved or unresolved. They carry other ydna lineages as well, which is clearly outlined in the article to which I linked.

    In addition, a man's yDna accounts for about 2% of total genomic make-up. The rest is autosomal dna. Autosomally, there is very little difference between any people in the Balkans, and almost none between the various groups in the western Balkans. The evidence is there, and it's very recent.
    There was a very strong desire among some Croatian anthropologists that percentage of I2a be as large as possible. Intentional selecting a sample can garble results.

    In a way that is politically understandable, they wanted to have as few R1a, to show that they do not have much to do with the Slavs.

    But Croatian R1a is significant and with the new results, things are changing, and there are international researches.

    Maciamo, collecting all results, came to the following for Croatia: I2a = 37%, R1a = 24%, and there are big differences by regions, north of Croatia is more R1a, south is more I2a.

    It is irony that some people in Serbia loved to have larger R1a, but according Maciamo in Serbia: I2a = 34%, R1a = 16%.

    R1a is larger in Croatia than in Serbia and hence some Croatian and Serbian nationalists are sad.

    Balkan skirmishes, it is very hard for nonBalkans to understand it.

  8. #233
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603
    Points
    20,999
    Level
    44
    Points: 20,999, Level: 44
    Level completed: 28%, Points required for next Level: 651
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by hrvat22 View Post
    I2a1b2a1a3 A356 which have Croats comes from White Croatia, the same have Bosniaks, Montenegrins and Serbs in almost half of population.

    R1a Z280 type which have Croats have also Serbs, Bosnians, etc.

    R1a type Z280 has the same epicenter in White Croatia..

    About 65 percent of the male population in Croatia came from White Croatia...

    Similar percentage is in Bosnians, Montenegrins etc .. it is logical that we are same people becouse we came as White Croats on Balkans..Genetically it is undeniable..
    Someone can find Serbs, Bosniacs etc. in the Balkans with haplogroup I2a1b2a1a3 A356 all he or she wants.

    Did Croats gain a certificate of this haplogroup? It is stupid.

    White Croatia is myth. Nobody knows if White Croatia existed and where it was.

    (Of course and White Serbia is myth).

    In these myths only children can believe.

    Someone can read serious scientists, for example: Becoming Slav, Becoming Croats, by Daniel Dzino:

    Danijel Dzino is Australian scientist, Macquarie University. He is Croatian origin.

    page 112

    The story of the arrival of the Croats and Serbs from 'White Croatia' and 'White Serbia' is nothing more than away to explain and rationalise the social and cultural change through a misinterpretation of the events from Late Antiquity. The narrative is no different from too obviously fictive story that Diocletian founded Diocleia, or that he instigated the Roman colonisation of Dalmatia, which was the origo gentis of the Dalmatian Romani. If Constantine indeed used the existing origo gentis of the Croats in chapter 30, we cannot see it is realistic, or even original, especially because an almost identical myth of the arrival of Bulgars was mentoined in Theopanes the Confessor, as well as the patriarch Nicephorus of Constantinople.

    page 114

    Therefore, if the story of the arrival of the Croats in the DAI is indeed part of the Croat oral discourse, then we can see it as politically and ideologically motivated myth that legitimated the existing situation and the political domination the group over Dalmatia and Pannonia through common ancestors: the imaginary brothers and sisters mentoined in the DAI.

    DAI = De Administrando Imperio

  9. #234
    Advisor Achievements:
    VeteranThree Friends50000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class
    Awards:
    Posting Award
    Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    14,759
    Points
    243,081
    Level
    100
    Points: 243,081, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.6%


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    There was a very strong desire among some Croatian anthropologists that percentage of I2a be as large as possible. Intentional selecting a sample can garble results.

    In a way that is politically understandable, they wanted to have as few R1a, to show that they do not have much to do with the Slavs.

    But Croatian R1a is significant and with the new results, things are changing, and there are international researches.

    Maciamo, collecting all results, came to the following for Croatia: I2a = 37%, R1a = 24%, and there are big differences by regions, north of Croatia is more R1a, south is more I2a.

    It is irony that some people in Serbia loved to have larger R1a, but according Maciamo in Serbia: I2a = 34%, R1a = 16%.

    R1a is larger in Croatia than in Serbia and hence some Croatian and Serbian nationalists are sad.

    Balkan skirmishes, it is very hard for nonBalkans to understand it.
    I just find it all very sad, Garrick. It's a beautiful part of the world, with lovely people under other circumstances, as I can attest as I have a number of friends from there: Croatia, Albania, Romania, and even one from Serbia. The best boss I ever had was a woman executive of Serbian ancestry, not that she could speak a word of it. :) Thankfully, although the others were all natives they had already immigrated to the U.S. by the time of all the fratricide, but they have relatives who suffered because of it.

    It's absolutely senseless. If modern dna can't make people see how similar they are then it makes you wonder if there's any hope for humanity.

  10. #235
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603
    Points
    20,999
    Level
    44
    Points: 20,999, Level: 44
    Level completed: 28%, Points required for next Level: 651
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I just find it all very sad, Garrick. It's a beautiful part of the world, with lovely people under other circumstances, as I can attest as I have a number of friends from there: Croatia, Albania, Romania, and even one from Serbia. The best boss I ever had was a woman executive of Serbian ancestry, not that she could speak a word of it. :) Thankfully, although the others were all natives they had already immigrated to the U.S. by the time of all the fratricide, but they have relatives who suffered because of it.

    It's absolutely senseless. If modern dna can't make people see how similar they are then it makes you wonder if there's any hope for humanity.
    Serbia and Croatia are pretty countries, with reach cultures and much other things.

    And as to the origin, everyone can see that Serbs and Croats have a similar haplogroups, differences are small.

    But the conflict between them, most irrational by its nature, is difficult for someone from the outside to understand, which is a shame because cooperation is much better.

    There are some historical reasons, when modern nations formed in XIX century, ethnicity in the Balkans is determined by religion, religion brings people together but different religions can divide people.

    But there are good role models, the Serbs and Croats can learn how Scandinavian nations know how to cooperate with each other

  11. #236
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    07-09-14
    Posts
    4,472
    Points
    56,878
    Level
    73
    Points: 56,878, Level: 73
    Level completed: 89%, Points required for next Level: 172
    Overall activity: 41.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    W6

    Ethnic group
    Polish
    Country: Poland



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    ^ As for the "R1a = Slavs; I2a = Non-Slavs" notion:

    Do you think that the guy with R1a Z280 who died 3100 years ago near Halberstadt was Slavic-speaking?

    The TMRCA and modern distribution of I2a-Din looks like a better candidate for a haplogroup that spread with Slavs.

    Of course assuming that early Slavs had only one haplogrup, or one subclade of one haplogroup, is ridiculous to start with.

    In general the more I research this, the more I think that associating a given hg with one specific ethno-linguistic group is ridiculous. For example there is absolutely no evidence that such R1b-U106 was originally and exclusively Germanic, and that it only spread with Germanics. Its TMRCA is much older than Germanic language. There is also no evidence that Slavs had a monopoly for R1a. It seems that the modern range of distribution of R1a in North-Eastern Europe was already established in the Bronze Age, considering recent ancient DNA finds.

    For example Copper-Bronze Age patterns in Y-DNA show that the boundary of R1b (to the west) and R1a (to the east) was in Central Germany. This looks the same way today - if anuthing, nowadays the boundary is more to the east, closer to the Oder River.

    But I2a-Din is a fairly young subclade of I2, and it could be spreading with Slavs. Though maybe with someone else too.

  12. #237
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    26-08-14
    Posts
    200
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Country: Canada



    It is here the most recent and comprehensive scientific research:


    According to the source we can conclude that the most Ancient indigenous current populations of Europe are:
    (Considering Early Neolithic to mid Neolithic ONLY, because if we go more back they should have came from somewhere else like everyone descend from Africa)


    1: Sardinian
    2: Albanian
    3: Greek
    4: Spanish
    5: Bergamo
    6: Basque
    7: Tuscan
    8: Bulgarian
    9: French
    10: Croatian
    11: Arcadian
    12: English
    13: Ukrainian
    14: Hungarian
    15: Belarusian
    16: Czech
    17: Scottish
    18: Icelandic
    19: Estonian
    20: Lithuanian
    21: Norwegian




    So obviously the more EEF and WHG the more Ancient European, the more ANE Yamna the later in Europe.

    This might also correlate with my suppositions (from the start of this thread) that before ancient Greek inhabitants they were native inhabitants of the so called Pelazgian.
    And it might mean that the only possible major group of Pelazgians are E-V13 (which i support) or !2e.



    Here are more details....

    http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...13433.full.pdf
    Last edited by noUseForAname; 05-06-15 at 15:08.

  13. #238
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    110,111
    Level
    100
    Points: 110,111, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by noUseForAname View Post
    It is here the most recent and comprehensive scientific research:

    According to the source we can conclude that the most Ancient indigenous current populations of Europe are:

    1: Sardinian
    2: Albanian
    3: Greek
    4: Spanish
    5: Bergamo
    6: Basque
    7: Tuscan
    8: Bulgarian
    9: French
    10: Croatian
    11: Arcadian
    12: English
    13: Ukrainian
    14: Hungarian
    15: Belarusian
    16: Czech
    17: Scottish
    18: Icelandic
    19: Estonian
    20: Lithuanian
    21: Norwegian




    So obviously the more EN and WEHG the more Ancient European, the more Yamna the later in Europe.

    This might also correlates with my suppositions (from the start of this thread) that before ancient Greek inhabitants they were native inhabitants of the so called Pelazgian.
    And it might mean that the only possible major group of Pelazgians are E-V13 (which i support) or !2e



    Here are more details....

    http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...13433.full.pdf
    Please don't mix the EEF, ANE and WHG, which are part of autosomal (whole genome - Y DNA) composition of Europeans with uni-parental haplotype markers of E-V13, R1b and others, which are indicators of Y chromosome only (2% of whole genome). Technical we can have E-V13 person with 30 percent of EEF. There also might be R1a person in Sardinia with 90% of EEF.
    WHG and ANE were admixtures of original European hunter-gatherers, ANE was in Eastern Eruope. EEF, or rather Early Neolithic Farmers admixture, came from Near East about 10 years ago.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  14. #239
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,158
    Points
    38,796
    Level
    60
    Points: 38,796, Level: 60
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 254
    Overall activity: 48.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    Again crossing 2 different variants to extract a conclusion,
    that can work as possibility but not as determing method,

    logic is not

    Policeman is an instrument (of law)
    Guitar is a (musical) instrument
    so Policeman is a Guitar,

    Crossing 2 different variants, can give only possible, but not certain/determing results,


    possibility of might be like this, is not 100% certain, and sometimes can be correct, and some not, cause Policeman is not a Violin,

    it can be used, to create an hypothesis, a possible scenario, which might be TRUE or FALSE using logic, etc
    but not to determing or certify something, a THEORY, or a LAW

  15. #240
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603
    Points
    20,999
    Level
    44
    Points: 20,999, Level: 44
    Level completed: 28%, Points required for next Level: 651
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by noUseForAname View Post
    It is here the most recent and comprehensive scientific research:


    According to the source we can conclude that the most Ancient indigenous current populations of Europe are:
    (Considering Early Neolithic to mid Neolithic ONLY, because if we go more back they should have came from somewhere else like everyone descend from Africa)


    1: Sardinian
    2: Albanian
    3: Greek
    4: Spanish
    5: Bergamo
    6: Basque
    7: Tuscan
    8: Bulgarian
    9: French
    10: Croatian
    11: Arcadian
    12: English
    13: Ukrainian
    14: Hungarian
    15: Belarusian
    16: Czech
    17: Scottish
    18: Icelandic
    19: Estonian
    20: Lithuanian
    21: Norwegian




    So obviously the more EEF and WHG the more Ancient European, the more ANE Yamna the later in Europe.

    This might also correlate with my suppositions (from the start of this thread) that before ancient Greek inhabitants they were native inhabitants of the so called Pelazgian.
    And it might mean that the only possible major group of Pelazgians are E-V13 (which i support) or !2e.



    Here are more details....

    http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/e...13433.full.pdf
    This is misinterpretation. Mixing two different entities. Therefore conclusions are completely wrong.

  16. #241
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    26-08-14
    Posts
    200
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Country: Canada



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    This is misinterpretation. Mixing two different entities. Therefore conclusions are completely wrong.

    So you think you are smarter than 45 scientist of this study and coming up with your one worded conclusions as of completely wrong?....Give me a break please.


    So from 69 samples there are only around 30 from Early Neolithic (including 1 E-V13) to Mid Neolithic (all the Yamnays and R1a are after mid Neolithic Bronze Age In Europe excluding Russia)

    And those around 30 samples from Early Neolithic to Mid Neolithic (10,000 to 5,000 ybp) are mostly outside Europe (Current Russia)
    Therefore it makes sense from those small samples (Early Neolithic in Europe) to find the most current native indigenous populations of Europe.

    in other words why would the scientist then came upon conclusion that Albanian 2nd and Greek 3rd (are most indigenous in Europe)?

    It makes sense because as per Albanians they have E-V13 (over 40%) and another Ie2 by 15% then we have over 65% (Which might mean EEF) which is pretty high percentage


    I mean we can interpret the study but who are Me and YOU to know better than the scientists(this is a major study, 45 scientist in one study, one of the biggest one), therefore they are not stupid that they put Albanian 2nd and Greek 3rd.

  17. #242
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603
    Points
    20,999
    Level
    44
    Points: 20,999, Level: 44
    Level completed: 28%, Points required for next Level: 651
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by noUseForAname View Post
    So you think you are smarter than 45 scientist of this study and coming up with your one worded conclusions as of completely wrong?....Give me a break please.


    So from 69 samples there are only around 30 from Early Neolithic (including 1 E-V13) to Mid Neolithic (all the Yamnays and R1a are after mid Neolithic Bronze Age In Europe excluding Russia)

    And those around 30 samples from Early Neolithic to Mid Neolithic (10,000 to 5,000 ybp) are mostly outside Europe (Current Russia)
    Therefore it makes sense from those small samples (Early Neolithic in Europe) to find the most current native indigenous populations of Europe.

    in other words why would the scientist then came upon conclusion that Albanian 2nd and Greek 3rd (are most indigenous in Europe)?

    It makes sense because as per Albanians they have E-V13 (over 40%) and another Ie2 by 15% then we have over 65% (Which might mean EEF) which is pretty high percentage


    I mean we can interpret the study but who are Me and YOU to know better than the scientists(this is a major study, 45 scientist in one study, one of the biggest one), therefore they are not stupid that they put Albanian 2nd and Greek 3rd.
    Very confused, as said previous interlocutors.

    You mixed ANE, WHG and EEF with uni-parental markers E-V13, R1a, I2a what is nonsense.

    Albanian 2nd is not mean Albanian in the Balkan origin is 2nd, it is big difference, geographical area of origin could be Anatolia, the Caucasus, Moldavia etc.

    In the base, you can not come to terms with the fact that no found E samples, only one, but in Spain!

    But G2 = 41 & I2 = 18, you probably sow these data.

    Last edited by Garrick; 06-06-15 at 07:36.

  18. #243
    King Achievements:
    Three Friends10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Maleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-14
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,908
    Points
    18,015
    Level
    40
    Points: 18,015, Level: 40
    Level completed: 96%, Points required for next Level: 35
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    EV13 A7136 y18675G+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Malta



    This thread is about Palasgians and the possibility if they might had E-V13 Haplogroup. Do we have any dna samples from ancient burial sites in the Balkan area? No. So who can say? theories assumptions hypothesis. I read that the theory of Johann George that Albanians are descendants of Palasgians on the base of language has been generally scrapped by scholars, but had nothing to do with DNA and haplogroups as no science was around at that time. Some people need to get used to the idea that E-V13 has been around BEFORE slavery, gypsies the Ottoman empire and North African Berbers. I augur Courage :)

  19. #244
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    26-08-14
    Posts
    200
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Country: Canada



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Albanian 2nd is not mean Albanian in the Balkan origin is 2nd, it is big difference, geographical area of origin could be Anatolia, the Caucasus, Moldavia etc

    Study argues, as i am only representing this Study.

    Don't you understand EEF means (Early European Farmers, early Neolithic) the orange color Albanians = 65%
    WHG means (Wester European huntergathers) blue color Albanians = 17 %

    So only one question i have, how this is not European?...... EEF + WHG = Albanians 82%

    ANE means (Yamnaya) green color Albanians = 18%


    Of course this means that Albanians are descend from south east Europe since the early Neolithic Period 10,000 years ago.


    2nd Question is how could origin be Anatolia or Caucus when we are talking (indigenous inhabitants) from the early European Neolithic (10,000 ybp)?
    Last edited by noUseForAname; 08-06-15 at 00:24.

  20. #245
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603
    Points
    20,999
    Level
    44
    Points: 20,999, Level: 44
    Level completed: 28%, Points required for next Level: 651
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by noUseForAname View Post


    Of course this means that Albanians are descend from south east Europe since the early Neolithic Period 10,000 years ago.
    No, it doesn't mean. You didn't understand the text. You can read again posts above.

  21. #246
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    26-08-14
    Posts
    200
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Country: Canada



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    No, it doesn't mean. You didn't understand the text. You can read again posts above.

    If you say so, can you answer the 2 questions above then?

  22. #247
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    110,111
    Level
    100
    Points: 110,111, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by noUseForAname View Post
    Study argues, as i am only representing this Study.

    Don't you understand EEF means (Early European Neolithic) the orange color Albanians = 65%
    WHG means (Wester European huntergathers) blue color Albanians = 17 %

    So only one question i have, how this is not European?...... EEF + WHG = Albanians 82%

    ANE means (Yamnaya) green color Albanians = 18%


    Of course this means that Albanians are descend from south east Europe since the early Neolithic Period 10,000 years ago.


    2nd Question is how could origin be Anatolia or Caucus when we are talking (indigenous inhabitants) from the early European Neolithic (10,000 ybp)?
    All Europeans, except new immigrants, descend from these three genetic groups, only in different proportions.

  23. #248
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603
    Points
    20,999
    Level
    44
    Points: 20,999, Level: 44
    Level completed: 28%, Points required for next Level: 651
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by noUseForAname View Post
    If you say so, can you answer the 2 questions above then?
    You pull one piece of the puzzle and say: Eureka. But things don't operate so. Whole puzzle is important.

    EEF is complex. This contains ENF and WHG. (EEF = ENF + WHG). But much more ENF than WHG.

    Do you know what is ENF?

    ENF = Early Neolithic Farmers

    It is component from the ancient Near East (including Anatolia, Caucasus, near).

    If someone found 82% for Albanians it means:

    ENF + WHG = 82%

    We have no knowledge how much in ENF is from the Near East/Anatolia/Caucasus/Balkans/South Western Europe etc.

    It needs a lot of researches in different epochs to know more.

    Do you understand, EEF is hybrid component.

  24. #249
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    26-08-14
    Posts
    200
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Country: Canada



    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    We have no knowledge how much in ENF is from the Near East/Anatolia/Caucasus/Balkans/South Western Europe etc.
    Do you understand, EEF is hybrid component.

    Thats why i mentioned Early Neolithic through mid Neolithic (10,000 - 5,000 ybp) because through that period we have early Neolithic Farmers from south east Europe.
    Now we are not talking here before 10,000 (please pay attention to wording)

    Therefore, Albanians and Greeks are descendants from early European Farmers from south east Europe since the early Neolithic Period 10,000 years ago.


    Thats why I also placed a 2nd Question like below (scientist didn't go deeper as of where did those inhabitants Sardinians Albanians Greeks came from before early Neolithic and Mesolithic)
    2nd Question is how could origin be Anatolia or Caucus when we are talking (indigenous inhabitants) from the early European Neolithic (10,000 ybp)?....so we are not talking where did those early Neolithic European farmers came from.


    Havent read the whole paper but it looks like they have found those populations which have admixure with near east...

    Fig. S9.24 shows that when WHG admixture is added to EN, residuals for most European populations are reduced, consistent with most Europeans not being descended from EN farmers of Europe. Four populations indicate no change in residuals:
    Sardinians are the population that is closest to early European farmers2,7-9,12 with an estimated ~90% descent from them
    (ref. 2 and Fig. S9.23b), while Maltese, Ashkenazi Jews, and Sicilians may have Near Eastern admixture not mediated via early European farmers2.
    Last edited by noUseForAname; 08-06-15 at 00:28.

  25. #250
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    26-08-14
    Posts
    200
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Country: Canada



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    All Europeans, except new immigrants, descend from these three genetic groups, only in different proportions.
    Correct, so it looks like the proportion of Sardinians Albanians and Greek have the highest percentage as per descendents from the early Neolithic European Farmers


    Fig. S9.24 shows that when WHG admixture is added to EN, residuals for most European populations are reduced, consistent with most Europeans not being descended from EN farmers of Europe. Four populations indicate no change in residuals: Sardinians are the population that is closest to early European farmers2,7-9,12 with an estimated ~90% descent from them
    (ref. 2 and Fig. S9.23b), while Maltese, Ashkenazi Jews, and Sicilians may have Near Eastern admixture not mediated via early European farmers2.

Page 10 of 20 FirstFirst ... 89101112 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •