Palasgians, pre Ancient Greeks...would their DNA be E-V13?

[noUseForAname]

Here is the E-V13 percentage for specific populations and specific locations.

Very interesting percentage by a specific location

Population -------------------------- Albanians(Kosovar)	Language ------------ IE (Albanian)	N ------ 114	R1b ------- 21.10	R1a ------- 4.42	I ----------- I1=5.31 I2a2=2.65	E-V13 --------- 47.37	J --------- J2=16.7	G ----- 0	N --- 0	T --- 0	Others ---------------- P[xQ,R1]=1.77	Reference ---------------------- Pericic2005[3]
Greeks (Peloponnese)	IE (Greek)	36	—	—	—	47	—	—	—	—	—	Semino2004[8]
Greeks (South)	IE (Greek)	46	19.6	2.2	23.9	43.5	—	6.5	—	2.2	—	Zalloua2008[31]
Cantabrians(Pasiegos)	IE (Italic)	56	—	—	—	42.9	—	—	—	—	—	Cruciani2004[20]
Albanians(Macedonia)	IE (Albanian)	64	18.8	1.6	I1=4.5 I2a=12.5	39.1	J1=6.3 J2=15.6	1.6	0.0	0.0	—	Battaglia2008[5]
Greeks (North)	IE (Greek)	96	14.6	18.8	12.5	35.4	—	5.2	—	2.1	L=1	Zalloua2008[31]
Italians (East Sicily)	IE (Italic)	87	20.0	2.3	5.0	29.0	—	5.0	—	5.0	—	Zalloua2008[31]
Italians (Sicily)	IE (Italic)		—	—	8.8	27.3	23.8	—	—	—	—	Semino2004[8]
Cypriots	IE (Greek)	45	9.0	2.0	—	27.0	—	—	—	—	—	Rosser2000[13]
Italians (South)	IE (Italic)	68	25.0	3.0	6.0	26.0	—	15.0	—	3.0	—	Zalloua2008[31]
Albanians	IE (Albanian)	55	18.2	9.1	I1=3.6 I2a=14.5 I2b=3.6	27.5	J1=3.6 J2=20.0	1.8	0.0	0.0	—	Battaglia2008[5]
Greeks	IE (Greek)	84/92	—	—	—	21.0	6.5	—	—	—	—	Semino2004[8]
Greeks (Macedonia)	IE (Greek)	57	14.0	12.3	I1=8.8 I2a=21.0	22.9	J1=1.8 J2=14.1	1.8	—	1.8	—	Battaglia 2008[5]
Ashkenazi Jews	IE (Germanic, West)	79	—	12.7	—	22.8	43.0	—	—	—	—	Nebel2001[9]
Serbs (Bosnia)	IE (Slavic, South)	81	6.2	13.6	40.7	22.2	9.9	1.2	6.2	0.0	—	Battaglia2008[5]
Aromuns(Kruševo, Macedonia)	IE (Italic)	43	27.9	11.6	20.9	20.9	11.6	7.0	0.0	0.0	—	Bosch2006[4]
Bulgarians	IE (Slavic, South)	127	11.0	17.3	27.5	19.7	18.1	1.6	—	0.8	—	Karachanak2009[17]
Greeks (Thrace)	IE (Greek)	41	12.2	22.0	19.5	19.5	19.5	4.9	—	—	—	Bosch2006[4]
Sephardic Jews	Afro-Asiatic (Semitic)	78	29.5	3.9	11.5	19.2	28.2	—	—	—	—	Nebel2001[9]
Italians (West Sicily)	IE (Italic)	125	27.0	2.4	11.0	19.0	—	13.0	—	3.0	—	Zalloua2008[31]
Minorca islanders	IE (Italic)	37	73.0	2.7	2.7	18.9	—	0.0	—	0.0	—	Zalloua2008[31]
Aromuns (Štip, Macedonia)	IE (Italic)	65	23.1	21.5	16.9	18.5	20.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	—	Bosch2006[4]
ethnic Macedonians	IE (Slavic, South)	211	11.4	14.2	31.3	18.0	16.0	3.8	0.5	1.9	L=0.5	Noveski2010[34]
Aromuns(Dukasi, Albania)	IE (Italic)	39	2.6	2.6	17.9	17.9	48.7	10.3	0.0	0.0	—	Bosch2006[4]
Serbs	IE (Slavic, South)	179	4.5	14.5	48	17.3	5.6	2.2	3.3	—	L=0.6	Mirabal,V.2010[39]
Portuguese (South)	IE (Italic)	57	56.0	2.0	—	17.0	—	—	—	—	—	Rosser2000[13]
Romanians(Ploieşti)	IE (Italic)	36	8.3	5.6	38.9	16.7	19.4	8.3	0.0	0.0	—	Bosch2006[4]
Gagauz(Kongaz)	Altaic (Turkic)	48	10.4	12.5	31.3	16.7	8.3	10.4	4.2	6.3	—	Varzari2006[27]
Italians (Calabria)	IE (Italic)		32.4[2]	—	5.4[6]	16.3[3]	24.6[8]	—	—	—	—
Aromuns(Andon Poci, Albania)	IE (Italic)	19	36.8	0.0	42.1	15.8	5.3	0.0	0.0	0.0	—	Bosch2006[4]
Italians (Apulia)	IE (Italic)		—	—	2.6[6]	13.9[8]	31.4[8]	—	—	—	—
Italians	IE (Italic)		—	2.7[16]	—	13.0[13]	—	—	—	—	—

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_European_populations

 

[Garrick]

It is AMAZING that albanian is such an old language that Greek and Roman historians have never mention or recorded it , they mention and recorded all the Anatolian branch as per above the Albanian group and they mention and recorded what is below the Albanian branch.................it seems very very strange that Albanian which sits in the middle is completely missing.

The first document in the Albanian language (as spoken in the region around Mat) was recorded in 1462 by Paulus Angelius (whose name was later Albanized to Pal Engjëll), the archbishop of the Catholic Archdiocese of Durazzo (modern Durres).

...
New Zealand scientists used new computational-modeling method. Their result is that Albanian has same root as Indic and Iranic language.

...
My assumption is that Albanian originated somewhere in between (today's) Caucasus, northern Iran and eastern Turkey. I suppose that carriers of R1b ht35 (Armenian haplotype), J2 and probably R1a created this language. Albanian is Indo-European, Satem.

One of possible route moving carriers of mentoined haplogroups is Caucasus, areas around in front of Black Sea region, today's areas of Southern Ukraine/Moldavia/Romania. Somewhere in Moldavia (or Southern Ukraine, or Romania) E-V13 carriers mixed with R1b ht35, J2 and R1a carriers, and they received their language. As this is the area Romania, Moldavia, Southern Ukraine, a lot of Latin Romanian and Slavic words entered in that precursor of modern Albanian language.

...
It is interesting, we have no original language of E-V13 carriers. Nowhere in the world. My assumption is that original language of E-V13 carriers was Afro-Asiatic. In today's Albanian there are words that could be Afro-Asiatic but it is very hard to say if they originate from E-V13 carriers or these are later impacts.

 

[Maleth]

It is interesting, we have no original language of E-V13 carriers. Nowhere in the world. My assumption is that original language of E-V13 carriers was Afro-Asiatic. In today's Albanian there are words that could be Afro-Asiatic but it is very hard to say if they originate from E-V13 carriers or these are later impacts.

It would be interesting to know, however I doubt if any haplogroup (except for the R group which probably always carried and indo European language) carried a particular language. Do we know what the first J1 and J2 carried or even the G's or T's soon after they mutated?....even the I's? The I's split from the J's. (what language did they speak?) or is it a matter that groups split and assimilated into other larger groups and adopted to whatever was the most important language in the region. I think there were some issues in Babel although they could have been mostly a mixture of Afroasiatic dialects rather then total different language trees. Not an easy thing to know. If not mistaken there are some minor common roots between indo European and Afroasiatic, so Albanian will not be the only one, unless you are refering to semetic words which could have entered more recently. Spanish still has a few semetic words in its language and also Sicilian dialect. Maltese is Semetic with a high percentage of loan words from Latin, but its a result of history and not DNA I believe linguists believe that both indo european and afroasiatic languages had a common ancestor some 25,000 years ago.

 

[Yetos]

It means:-

Conclusion,

Interesting results from the lineage analysis can be summarized as follows: (i) R-L23*, the eastern branch of haplogroup R-M269, is present in Eastern Bulgaria since the post glacial period; (ii) haplogroup E-V13, which probably originated in Western Asia, has a Mesolithic age in Bulgaria from where it expanded after the spread of farming marked by haplogroup G-P15, J-M410 representatives; (iii) haplogroup J-M241 probably reflects the Neolithic westward expansion of farmers from the earliest sites along the Black Sea.

Meaning E-V13 has been around in the Balkans much longer then what you believe, even before any of todays known religions. That would also mean that E-V13 arrived before Gypsies or Jews and Palestinians, Slaves or North Africans, and no Baptism was needed to obtain any new identity. Passports and borders did not exist in those times

again



<<Haplogroup E-V13 displays a star-like network radiating from a central haplotype mainly found in the Balkan populations. This pattern, together with coalescence estimates, points to a recent and rapid expansion of this lineage in the Balkans. Not considering Bosnian Croats and Macedonian Greeks, for which standard errors are too large, the highest age in the Balkans, dating back to Mesolithic times, is found in Western Bulgaria (9.3±3 kya). This value, which overlaps that registered in Turkey (10.6±3 kya), indicates that haplogroup E-V13 was already present (if not originated) in Mesolithic times in Western Bulgaria from where it underwent expansion with the transition to farming.>>

cause

<<In the plot of Figure 3C, the populations are distributed in a longitudinal pattern generated essentially by the PC1. This separation is determined by the prevalence of the East Asian Hg O-M175 and the Central Asian Hg C-RPS4Y in the east and the increasing frequencies of Hgs J-M172 and R-M173 in the west. The PC2, which is mainly due to Hgs I-M170 and E-SRY4064, clearly separates Bulgarians from the compared populations. On the whole, Bulgarians are distant from Altaic populations and populations residing in the north of the Pamir region and they are also distant from Kazan Tatars and Iranians, although to a lesser extent.>>

PC1 and PC2 marks are connected with some certain Hg there, while few km away can be connected with other Hg, or the oposite, nothing
possibilities

do you understand the combo logic?
it is a possibility by crossing 2 variants,
NOT a DETERMING METHOD

 

[Angela]

Gentlemen, if you are using older papers which depended on the "evolutionary" mutation rate, the interpretations aren't necessarily reliable.

We know a form of E-V13 was present in a Cardial culture site in the western Mediterranean. We know that the current hot spot is in southeastern Europe. It seems pretty clear that there was a Bronze Age/Iron Age spread from that area.

Until we get more ancient samples of E-V13, better resolution of clades, and better dating of those clades, I personally am not very sure when it arrived or with whom. I feel more confident in saying that it expanded in the Bronze Age from somewhere in the Balkans, and into Italy, in particular, in the Bronze Age, and later with Greek colonization in the first millennium BC.

 

[noUseForAname]

New Zealand scientists used new computational-modeling method. Their result is that Albanian has same root as Indic and Iranic language.

I have found your source (although i asked 3 times to send the source and not just the picture)
You have misrepresented this source (see below) from (Russell D. Gray 2003 year) for the following reasons. I will interpret this study (although more recent studies of 2012 and 2015 show more details)

1: Albanian language is not a subgroup of indic/Iranian (see table below). If it would have been a subgroup then it would fall inside Indic/Iranic
2: Indic/Iranic split 4,600 years ago (own separate branch), Albanian split 6,000 years ago (own separate branch). Colours show separate branches (read the whole source in details please)
3: On the other side Greek and Armenian split 6,800 years ago (therefore own Branch), although it mentions Greek only 800 years old (probably this is only for the modern Greek and not ancient Greek). And Albanian 600 years old (probably this is only for a modern Albanian)
4: The main language groupings are colourcoded. Branch lengths are proportional to the inferred maximum-likelihood estimates ofevolutionary change per cognate....
5: For example *Italic also includes the French/Iberian subgroup, So Italic main branch and subgroups are French/Iberian.
6: So the main groups branches (from older to recent) are: Anatolian, Tocharian, Armenian, Greek, Albanian, Iranian (Indo-Iranian), Indic (indo-Iranian), Slavic, Baltic, Germanic, Italic.....

Now my question to you is: Why the study then shows Albanian as its own Main branch?
Did you even read the source or you just found that pic and wanted to be one sided no matter what?

My assumption is that Albanian originated somewhere in between (today's) Caucasus, northern Iran and eastern Turkey. I suppose that carriers of R1b ht35 (Armenian haplotype), J2 and probably R1a created this language. Albanian is Indo-European, Satem.

1:Majority of current Albanians descend from E-V13 (over 40%) how can they originate from Caucus area? (we are not talking about the language here)
2:It is a possibility that Yamna R1b majority 4,000 years ago spread PEI to those regions, as Albanians currently have 18.6% R1b and R1a only 5%
3:It is also a possibility that J2 through Yamna 4,000 ago spread PEI, however this is not supported with the recent (major scale dna study) because Yamna were mostly R1b.
4: Maciamo notes that current Ukrainians have J2a from Greek ancestry, therefore it came to Greek regions much later then E-V13 and R1b because J2a never moved across Yamna (only Yamns brought PEI). J2a must have crossed through current Turkey but definitely didnt brought PEI with them. If J2 moved there at earlier say around 3,000 years ago it should have already found E-V113 and R1b, that is why E-V13 and R1b at Albanians have over 60% together. Currently J2 is 18%.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...-for-Indo-European-languages-in-Europe/page22

So once again how can Albanians Originate from Caucus when altogether E-V13 R1b and I2 = 77.5%

It is interesting, we have no original language of E-V13 carriers. Nowhere in the world. My assumption is that original language of E-V13 carriers was Afro-Asiatic. In today's Albanian there are words that could be Afro-Asiatic but it is very hard to say if they originate from E-V13 carriers or these are later impacts.

Yet again, are you reading my post at all?....it could be Pelazgian...read my post and sources please i dont want to reiterate over and over again..


https://www.webdepot.umontreal.ca/Usagers/tuitekj/MonDepotPublic/cours/IE/GrayAtkinson.pdf

 

[Fluffy]

How many times will I have to say it? Haplogroup G is not Semitic.

 

[Maleth]

How many times will I have to say it? Haplogroup G is not Semitic.

National Geographic places G origins in the Middle east some 30,000 year ago, Cinnioglu et al and Semino et al also suggest a middle eastern origin but do not agree on dates of mutations from Haplogroup F. They suggest a more recent date.

The word Semetic is a more recent term to describe a family of languages derived from the Afroasiatic ones. Other G subclades like others would have mutated in different regions. G2a is found freaquently in neolotical sites in Europe where dna extraction is possible in cooler climates. G2a is found in low freaquencies in current populations in many parts of Europe, Western Asia, Middle east and North Africa, however G1 is rarely found in Europe, highest found is in Iran.

 

[Garrick]

Albanian language is not a subgroup of indic/Iranian (see table below). If it would have been a subgroup then it would fall inside Indic/Iranic.

What I wrote:

Their result is that Albanian has same root as Indic and Iranic language.

According New Zealand scientists:
Greek and Armenian have same root.
Albanian and Indic & Iranian language have same root.
Baltic and Slavic languages have same root.
Romance, Germanic and Celtic languages have same root.

Albanian and Indic & Iranic languages split 6000 years ago, according them. But it split from Indic & Iranic languages, not from Armenian, or Slavic, or Celtic.

What I wrote more times, it is possible that R1b ht35 (Armenian haplotype) had most impact in creating proto Albanian. Maybe J2 and R1a carriers participated too.

It is possible that proto Albanian originated from area Caucasus, today’s eastern Turkey and northern Iran. And it is possible that population who spoke proto Albanian moved over land in the region around Black sea to the Moldavia (Southern Ukraine/Romania). And this population mixed in with E-V13 carriers who were numerous in the area where these two populations merged (maybe in this area E-V13 is numerous and today).

For J2 there are two assumptions:

1. J2 carriers participated in creating proto Albanian and in the movement from Caucasus, area around Black sea to Moldavia (Southern Ukraine, Romania) or
2. J2 carriers entered in Albanian substratum late, in area of today’s Romania, Bulgaria or later, in area of today’s Albania.

Dienekes once wrote that J2 carriers entered very late in Albanian substratum in area present-day Albania.

Moldavia/Romania is key area for creating modern Albanian which probably created between 4 and 6 century in this area. Latin loanwords in Albanian show East Balkan Latin phonetics (Romanian), but no West Balkan Latin phonetics (Dalmatian). Also in the area Albanian came in contact with Balto Slavic languages. And Dacian before Romanization probably was Balto Slavic. And Thracian was probably Balto Slavic. Albanian is Satem, as Balto Slavic, Dacian and Thracian languages.

Albanian has strong links with Romanian and Balto Slavic.

But Albanian has relative absence of Greek influence. Influence of Greek came much later, in area present day Albania. Greek loanwords in Albanian should be much higher if Albanians lived with Greeks a much longer time.
...

Pelasgian probably was not IE language.
Illyirian was IE language, but Satem.
Someone can ask, why Albanian linguists try to reduce links Albanian with Romanian and Balto Slavic, and search non-existent links Albanian with Pelasgian and Illyrian.
And, what is interesting, some Albanian linguists say Albanian is close to Illyirian, Albanian is close to Pelasgian, what is nonsense because Illyiran and Pelasgian have no connection.

...
What Albanian can have with Pelasgian if it has no link, linguistic, geographic, by age.

Albanian has no connection with Pelasgian. No.
And Albanian as Satem language has no connection with Illyrian.

We here just wasting time searching the links that don’t exist.
...

Linguists using traditional methods had problem to classify Albanian and they wandered to find appropriate solution. Maybe Armenian was the closest about whom they thought. However New Zealand scientists went innovative way, they using computational method determined that Albanian has same root as Indic languages (for example Kashmiri) and Iranian languages (for example Baluchi), which can means, if they’re right, that proto Albanian was more to the east far from the Armenian.

 

[noUseForAname]

What I wrote:

Albanian and Indic & Iranic languages split 6000 years ago, according them. But it split from Indic & Iranic languages, not from Armenian, or Slavic, or Celtic.

Incorrect, According to the source Albanian is before Indic/Iranic, 6: So the main groups branches (from older to recent) are: Anatolian, Tocharian, Armenian, Greek, Albanian, Iranian (Indo-Iranian), Indic (indo-Iranian), Slavic, Baltic, Germanic, Italic.....
Therefore Albanian is split 6,200 years, on the other side Indic/Iranic 4,600 years ago (Check the source below with years noted)
All those main Languages (colorized) are split as a main separate branches from indo-European.
https://www.webdepot.umontreal.ca/Usagers/tuitekj/MonDepotPublic/cours/IE/GrayAtkinson.pdf

It is possible that proto Albanian originated from area Caucasus, today’s eastern Turkey and northern Iran. And it is possible that population who spoke proto Albanian moved over land in the region around Black sea to the Moldavia (Southern Ukraine/Romania). And this population mixed in with E-V13 carriers who were numerous in the area where these two populations merged (maybe in this area E-V13 is numerous and today).

If language came from somewhere that doesn't mean all the people too (it might be by smaller numbers), in this case we have E-V13 over 40% + !2 and !1 to 57.5%, lets say most R1b (with 20%) brought PEI, and it cannot be before 6,000 years ago cause thats when they migrated through Yamna. So population might grew for another 20% to 77.5%. And then J2 came later with 18%. Those are current dna numbers at it makes pretty much sense this way.

Therefore arguing that Albanian originated from Caucus is wrong, because its language could have originated from there (like all the other PEI languages), and if we are supposing that R1b brought PEI from around today Caucus north Mesopotamia and north east Anatolia.

Thats why i asked you and am asking you again how can current Albanians originated (not language) from Caucus when altogether E-V13 R1b and I2 = 77.5%

Dienekes once wrote that J2 carriers entered very late in Albanian substratum in area present-day Albania.

Yes i think too J2 entered much later and in small numbers, thats why its 18%

Albanian has same root as Indic languages (for example Kashmiri) and Iranian languages (for example Baluchi), which can means, if they’re right, that proto Albanian was more to the east far from the Armenian.

Baluchi?....you seem not to understand the basics (although i explained everything above)

Albanian is split 6,200 years as a separate and own branch from PEI, on the other side Indic/Iranic 4,600 years ago (according to study)...just read above my explanation and check the study and years.....hope you understand by now.

https://www.webdepot.umontreal.ca/Usagers/tuitekj/MonDepotPublic/cours/IE/GrayAtkinson.pdf

 

[Fluffy]

National Geographic places G origins in the Middle east some 30,000 year ago, Cinnioglu et al and Semino et al also suggest a middle eastern origin but do not agree on dates of mutations from Haplogroup F. They suggest a more recent date.

The word Semetic is a more recent term to describe a family of languages derived from the Afroasiatic ones. Other G subclades like others would have mutated in different regions. G2a is found freaquently in neolotical sites in Europe where dna extraction is possible in cooler climates. G2a is found in low freaquencies in current populations in many parts of Europe, Western Asia, Middle east and North Africa, however G1 is rarely found in Europe, highest found is in Iran.

I was simply implying that Semitic haplogroups are E and J1.

 

[Ike]

baptise and βαφω βαφη baphe βαπτιζω,

word in Koine and modern Greek wich means I GIVE NEW STATUS/PAINT/NAME, ...

It was all clear from day one, I don't see why would anyone interpret it different than that.

 

[Maleth]

I was simply implying that Semitic haplogroups are E and J1.

Semitic means a sub language from the Afro Asiatic group normally including Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic, Phonetician and so on not a haplogroup description. For example we can say that G haplogroup was mutated in an area were a Semitic language was spoken. (which can never be the case as there is no language that is termed Semetic from the time that haplogroups were mutated and haplogroups mutations and their subclades have mutated in regions were the languages were not known as they were never written down. In the event of hisotry (where we have written documents) haplogroups have been mixing around for thousands of years.

 

[Angela]

With all due respect, gentlemen, while kudos are to be given to many of our members for posting in English when they are not native speakers or don't have long years of practice communicating in it, it is still a fact that it is difficult to grasp the logic of some posts, never mind the subtleties. Then there is the fact that certain "attitudes", shall we say, seem to "color" a lot of these posts and so it is natural to interpret such posts in light of those "attitudes".

So, enough, yes?

 

[Maleth]

It was all clear from day one, I don't see why would anyone interpret it different than that.

Indeed as clear as a foggy day

 

[Ike]

Indeed as clear as a foggy day

So, you decide to choose your version of the story, and stick to it even though I pointed out to you that it is wrong. Damn good logic.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Probably E- V 13 is somehow related with pelasgians, illyrians, hellenes, etc. Unfortunately this looks to be true.

 

[Maleth]

Probably E- V 13 is somehow related with pelasgians, illyrians, hellenes, etc. Unfortunately this looks to be true.

What a disaster :grin:

 

[hrvat22]

Its not about the debate with Hrvat22 its the general subtle innuendos and connotations such as E-V13 is found only in Iberia (?), My E-V13 neighbor is Palestinian baptised Albanian (?), Check the Religion and the birthrate (?) comments all in relation to E-V13 in this case.

Indeed agree that inter racial hatred in the Balkans defies all logic and understanding to a rational debate which can make things so boring and uninteresting for those who are interested in pure prehistory and history in connection with DNA , haplogroups and HUMAN migrations. The irony is that the Balkans are very much a mixture of the same and has nothing to do with more recent events that fuel much of the more illogical reasoning, trying to be proven in some kind of fictitious tribal war fare between imaginary homogeneous Haplogroups that carry particular marks such as languages and custom, claiming some kind of righteousness and prowess over the other.

I have not studied the Albanian type E1b V13...

If Albanian in today Albania has E1b 1200 and Croat in Croatia E1b 1201, this means that Croat came from Albania or his ancestor is Albanian. if someone in Algeria has E1b 500172 what does he have with Albania ...

I do not know Albanian types E1b so I speak in general ...

If you have data for Albanian and Croatian E1b haplotypes I would be grateful ...

 

[noUseForAname]

I have not studied the Albanian type E1b V13...

If Albanian in today Albania has E1b 1200 and Croat in Croatia E1b 1201, this means that Croat came from Albania or his ancestor is Albanian. if someone in Algeria has E1b 500172 what does he have with Albania ...

I do not know Albanian types E1b so I speak in general ...

If you have data for Albanian and Croatian E1b haplotypes I would be grateful ...

I think you have plenty of information regarding E-V13 in this Thread if you read from the start to the end.

I wouldn't say there is "Albanian types E1b" nor for any other populations (as dna are pretty mixed to all populations).
E-V13 is 10,000 ybp and its a subcalde of M -78. Therefore there is non European E1b because E1b is very old 40,000 ybp. (everyone is descend from Africa if we go way back)

Also, we couldn't say (if we look at wording) if Croatians have E-V13 their ancestor is Albanian cause at those times of course there was no Albanians nor Greek. However, we can say that current populations of so called Albanians have highest E-V13 in the world (if we are talking about population or ethnicity) and are descent from E-V13.


Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).
—Cruciani et al. (2007)

In contrast, another major discovery relevant to the study of E-V13 origins was the announcement in Lacan et al. (2011) that a 7000 year old skeleton in a Neolithic context in a Spanish funeral cave, was an E-V13 man. (The other specimens tested from the same site were inhaplogroup G2a, which has been found in Neolithic contexts throughout Europe.) Using 7 STR markers, this specimen was identified as beingsimilar to modern individuals tested in Albania, Bosnia, Greece, Corsica, and Provence. The authors therefore proposed that, whether or not the modern distribution of E-V13 of today is a result of more recent events, E-V13 was already in Europe within the Neolithic, carried by early farmers from the Eastern Mediterranean to the Western Mediterranean, much earlier than the Bronze age.

Y haplogroup E1b1b (E-M35) in the modern Balkan population is dominated by its sub-clade E1b1b1a (E-M78) and specifically by the most common European sub-clade of E-M78, E-V13.[68] The area in and around Albanian speaking regions has the highest known percentages E-V13 in the world, and it is thought that the majority of E-V13 in Europe and elsewhere descend from a common ancestor who lived in the Balkans in the late Mesolithic or Neolithic, and that men of this lineage began to spread outside the Balkans as early as the Neolithic, or even as recently as the Roman era.[68][69][70][71][72][73]