Garrick[/B];459689]
Unfortunately I will not be able for some time to participate in the forum. Long hot summer is made for enjoyment.
But I will come back, with new and fresh information, and probably I will open new thread.
Well except
you are like running and leaving behind the questions you haven't answered, because you just write a lot usually without scientific arguments and all of those you had were from "mythical fictional theories" (you have mentioned by yourself).
Hopefully if you come back
you answer those...
Albanians have little WHG and bigger ANE, similar to population of Anatolia/Caucasus. Someone based only this fact can think that they came later to the Balkans.
Yes of course ANE is later, and
Albanian descend from
ANE 17%, that is the percentage of newcomers, and ANE is not Anatolia nor Caucus but Yamna (and we are not going back where Yamna came from) which seem for the Albanians to descend from there around 3,500 (probably majority R1b)...current R1b within Albanians is 18% (very close number up to now still).
So to your answer,
YES around
17% are late Albanian R1b newcomers at around 3,000 ybp. (if we can say this way)
However, Albanians have
77% of EN, and scientist argue that
Sardinians are the population that is closest to early European farmers 2,7-9,12 with an estimated ~ 90% descent from them. Albanians are second and Greeks third. Now we all know that Early European farmers probably descend from the far south west Levant and far north East Egypt.
But we are not going back from 10,000 ybp, and we know that Early European farming started very early at the very south east Europe as early as 10,000.
The situation is similar to model by Ralf, Coop. They said that there are many possible histories shared ancestry. And this model is approximation and someone can have wrong conclusions based on it.
The study argues that
By far the highest rates of IBD within any populations is found between Albanian speakers—around 90 ancestors from 0–500 ya, and around 600 ancestors from 500–1,500 ya (so high that we left them out of Figure 5; see Figure S12). Beyond 1,500 ya, the rates of IBD drop to levels typical for other populations in the eastern grouping.
Albanian is the red colour and sufficiently at the very high percentage then the others at 2550-4335 years ago.
Furthermore, our Greek and Macedonian samples share much higher numbers of common ancestors with Albanian speakers than with other neighbors, possibly a result of historical migrations, or else perhaps smaller effects of the Slavic expansion in these populations. It is also interesting to note that the sampled Italians share nearly as much IBD with Albanian speakers as with each other. The Albanian language is a Indo-European language without other close relatives [53] that persisted through periods when neighboring languages were strongly influenced by Latin or Greek, suggesting an intriguing link between linguistic and genealogical history in this case.
I dont know why you say
i got wrong conclusions when i
ONLY copy paste the study arguing (above).
http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...l.pbio.1001555
This is fundamental question that must be understood and concerns 50% of this discussion and refers to the ancient times:
- Inhabitants of Anatolia/Caucasus/near mostly originate from Balkans
- The part of Balkan population (here we will focus only in today’s Albanians due to thread) mostly originate from Anatolia/Caucasus/near.
Neither the 1st nor 2nd were the questions, until you came to this thread and started arguing that Albanians originate from Caucus AD periods then originate from Carpi AD periods, then trying to link Albanian language with berber (non PEI), Romanian (AD periods) and Armenian. When clearly major studies argues that Albanian split from PEI directly at least 3,000 ybp and its a separate branch with no other links.
On the other side genetics has shown that Albanians are descend from south east Europe at least 4,000 ybp. So dont know how they came from Carpi (Moldavia) AD periods, you were only missing thousands of years though.
You have actually came with the
least possible suppositions, with that of scientist (maybe you have some dislike for Albanians because it clearly shows you were one sided),
The other 50% of this discussion refers to where it has developed a modern Albanian. There are two opinions:
- Modern Albanian is developed on the territory today’s Romania/Moldavia/Southern Ukraine (Dacian areas and near)
- Modern Albanian is emerged from Pelasgian (or Illyrian).
There is no such thing as modern Albanian (you came with this). its widely argued that Albanian language is at least 3,000 ybp. And current Albanians genetically descend from south east Europe of at least 4,000 ybp.
Now call them Pelazgian or Illyrian or any other names, it is obvious they were there (south east Europe) at least 4,000 ybp.
Two members of forum in this thread (Albanian origin) think that Albanian is continuity of Pelasgian. But we didn’t see evidence in this thread to support this claim. We have nothing to link Albanian with Illyrian, too.
Maciamo argues that E-V13 is since around 8,000 at the Peloponnese area South Greece, and we know that Albanians have the highest of E-V13 in the world (over 40%)
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/neolit...rope_map.shtml
So Even if they are not descend from Pelazgian, its sure they have the same dna since Early Neolithic at the south east Europe.
By 6,000 ybp all Albanian speaking regions and Greek speaking regions majority E-V13, including current Serbia mid to south (excludes Bulgaria and Romania)......
Confirming that E-V13 spread from south (supporting that Albanians E-V13 never migrated from Carpi Moldovia)
By 5,000 ybp Helladic Greece majority E-V13....even
Vinca Culture majority E-V13
Then some R1a came at 4,000 to Mycenean Greece and Macedonia (probably in small number as still R1a is very low at south east Europe)
Then we have Dorians R1b at 3,000 ybp (probably in much more numbers than R1a as R1b is pretty high still around 17%)
So according to
Maciamo overall it looks like since 9,000 ybp E-V13 was a majority in the south east (Albanian speaking regions and Greek), I2a pretty old (probably at the very small numbers and coming from Dalmatia).....R1b at high numbers around 3,000 and R1a in small numbers in 4,000.
J2 who is the 3rd major group after R1b (i have got not much info regarding that)
Vis-a-vis 2. which is without evidence, I strongly support 1. . I presented arguments and proofs that the Albanian language is developed in Romania/Moldavia/SouthWest Ukraine, in the areas where majority were Dacians. I gave the sources which corroborate it, and more than 110 words which Albanian took from Romanian, and I can give much more (there are thousands).
You have shown no scientific papers
except "mythical fictional theories" as you mentioned. And borrowings between languages show no evidence, the evidence is that Albanian is thousands of years older than Romanian and dacian. Dont know what do you want to show with language borrowings as all the language do borrow through time.
