Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 20 of 20 FirstFirst ... 10181920
Results 476 to 494 of 494

Thread: Palasgians, pre Ancient Greeks...would their DNA be E-V13?

  1. #476
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    26-08-14
    Posts
    200
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Country: Canada



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Do you actually know where Illyria is on the map?...............the bulk of it ( 80% ) is only in modern Croatia and Bosnia

    Of course i know, check the Maciamo map i sourced....i doesn't matter if its a bit far because as I noted E-V13 traveled around and spread, they didn't get stuck in one place.

    It would make sense that Terramare Culture (Italiy, Sicily, Sardinia) and Illyria at 4,000 ybp had a majority E-V13 following by other groups...

  2. #477
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    26-08-14
    Posts
    200
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Country: Canada



    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Pindus mountains, home of the Molossians, one of the 14 tribes that make up the Epirote people

    Yes however we are arguing about pre Molossians pre Mycenaean, probably around 4,500 ybp, and not labeling it with any names, it's just E-V13.....Molossians might have descend from E-V13 though (we don't know), we know that E-V13 is pretty high in those areas....

  3. #478
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    26-08-14
    Posts
    200
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Country: Canada



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post



    I can't find the map, can you source it please?....i can only see colourful colours lol.

  4. #479
    King Achievements:
    Three Friends10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Maleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-14
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,918
    Points
    18,138
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,138, Level: 41
    Level completed: 10%, Points required for next Level: 812
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    EV13 A7136 y18675G+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Malta



    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    1. I am talking exclusively about Kosovo. The fact that it is a current hotspot it is being used for deriving wild theories about ancient times, while we all know it is utter nonsense.
    2. No. I am talking about a specific region, which AD history we know about.
    Do not worry too much about e-v13 of Kosovo, it only has just under 2 million population compared to the just under 3 million of Albania, 11 million of Greece, and just over 7 million of Bulgaria.....other E-V13 hotspots

  5. #480
    King Achievements:
    Three Friends10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Maleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-14
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,918
    Points
    18,138
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,138, Level: 41
    Level completed: 10%, Points required for next Level: 812
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    EV13 A7136 y18675G+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Malta



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    There's now confirmed E1b1b1a1(2) in Neolithic Europe, so that part of the debate is over. There's also J2.

    Anna Szcsenyi-Nagy
    http://ubm.opus.hbz-nrw.de/volltexte...75/pdf/doc.pdf


    Ed. Sorry, I didn't add that one is M78, and one may already be E-V13.

    The cultures are Lengyel and Sopot.The date is 4780-4700 BC.

    The rest are G2a, F*, I2a1, J2, and C.

    R1b and I2a2 don't show up until the Bronze Age.

    Kudos to Maciamo for always holding out for J2 having made it into Europe by the Neolithic. Do I get any points for saying it might have made it by the Late Neolithic? :)

    Here is a map so you know where they are:

    For a moment I thought you were referring to the one of Marie La Can et al. So these are pretty recent ones, one from Sopot other from Lengyal. Very interesting indeed. Thanks for posting

  6. #481
    King Achievements:
    Three Friends10000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Maleth's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-14
    Location
    Malta
    Posts
    1,918
    Points
    18,138
    Level
    41
    Points: 18,138, Level: 41
    Level completed: 10%, Points required for next Level: 812
    Overall activity: 7.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    EV13 A7136 y18675G+
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Malta



    Quote Originally Posted by noUseForAname View Post

    Maleth check his foot....we know your E-V13 and we already know your foot LOL...




    Not just the foot NUFAN but other body parts which I would not get into detail. Oh Nannu Zeus . Enough now back to topic please.

  7. #482
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603
    Points
    20,999
    Level
    44
    Points: 20,999, Level: 44
    Level completed: 28%, Points required for next Level: 651
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Do not worry too much about e-v13 of Kosovo, it only has just under 2 million population compared to the just under 3 million of Albania, 11 million of Greece, and just over 7 million of Bulgaria.....other E-V13 hotspots
    Nobody cares, populations are changing. I gave data, of all E-V13 males in Europe and Turkey, Albanians are 3.48%. But some Albanians try to convince that all E-V13 are by origin Albanians (you can see how they write indefinite, when they should be concrete).
    ...

    However, Dienekes calculated age and everyone can see:

    In my previous post, I estimated a Late Bronze Age for E-V13 in Greece and areas affected by historical Greek colonization. I now used Ken Nordtvedt's Generations2 program to obtain estimates of the age of E-V13 in three different datasets: the King set, 12-marker data from the E-M35 Phylogeny Project (Haplozone), as well as E-M78 data -most of which should be E-V13- from Bosch et al. (2006). In the latter set, I used two marker sets: all 12 markers common between Generations2 and Bosch, as well as 8 markers common between them, but excluding markers after DYS392 (in the Generations2/FTDNA order).

    Nea Nikomedeia Age (25y/gen) 1,725 BC Age (30y/gen) 2,470 BC
    Sesklo/Dimini Age (25y/gen) 225 AD Age (30y/gen) 130 BC
    Lerna Franchthi Age (25y/gen) 1000 BC (30y/gen) 1,600 BC
    Crete Age (25y/gen) 300 AD (30y/gen) 40 BC
    Haplozone (25y/gen) 1,350 BC (30y/gen) 2,020 BC
    Aromuns (12) (25y/gen) 225 AD (30y/gen) 130BC
    Aromuns (8) (25y/gen) 175 AD (39y/gen) 190 BC
    Slavomacedonians (12) (25y/gen) 525 AD (30y/gen) 230 AD
    Albanians (12) 250 AD (30 y/gen) 100 BC
    Albanians (8) 525 AD (30y/gen) 230 AD

    Albanians are the youngest. It is interesting these ages are similar with ages which some Romanian scientists give as possible time of arrival of tribes from Romania/Moldavia to Albania!

    According Dienekes, Greeks from Nea Nikomedeia are descendants of the oldest E-V13 carriers of these in table.

    Nea Nikomedeia is in Central Macedonia, Greece

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nea_Nikomedeia

  8. #483
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603
    Points
    20,999
    Level
    44
    Points: 20,999, Level: 44
    Level completed: 28%, Points required for next Level: 651
    Overall activity: 2.0%


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    There's now confirmed E1b1b1a1(2) in Neolithic Europe, so that part of the debate is over. There's also J2.

    Anna Szcsenyi-Nagy
    http://ubm.opus.hbz-nrw.de/volltexte...75/pdf/doc.pdf


    Ed. Sorry, I didn't add that one is M78, and one may already be E-V13.

    The cultures are Lengyel and Sopot.The date is 4780-4700 BC.

    The rest are G2a, F*, I2a1, J2, and C.

    R1b and I2a2 don't show up until the Bronze Age.

    Kudos to Maciamo for always holding out for J2 having made it into Europe by the Neolithic. Do I get any points for saying it might have made it by the Late Neolithic? :)

    Here is a map so you know where they are:

    There is all logical. I see nothing surprising, maybe only F* is bigger than I would expect.

    I wonder, is this really F or this is G. Today there are no F* in Europe. I read example for two Portuguese men with F* but assumption is that they are descendants from India.

    Starcevo culture is predecessor of Vinca (Starcevo is in Serbia, too).

    Starcevo/Vinca I2a1, G2a (and F*). Now it is obvious that there has been adaptation, and the Hungarian paper argue about cooperation. When I wrote that hunter gatherers adapted, some members have refused this possibility.





    ...
    E-V13 is logical too. It is found in Lengyel (Hungary) and Sopot (Croatia) culture.
    These culture are something younger than Starcevo and Vinca, and tey are more mixed. In these cultures are G2a, F*, I2/I2a1, E-V13, J2 and C.

    Once G2a was much more frequent than today. What happened to the G2a?

  9. #484
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Ike's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-12-10
    Posts
    1,128
    Points
    4,720
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,720, Level: 20
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 330
    Overall activity: 3.0%


    Country: Yugoslavia



    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Do not worry too much about e-v13 of Kosovo, it only has just under 2 million population compared to the just under 3 million of Albania, 11 million of Greece, and just over 7 million of Bulgaria.....other E-V13 hotspots
    Agreed. So, lets get back on the track.


    1.(https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...CE.BF.CE.AF.29)

    The modern English noun Greek (Old English
    Grecas or Crecas) is derived from the Latin Graeci, which in turn originates from Ancient Greek Γραικός (Graikos). It seems that the word is related with the Greek word γέρων geron, "old man" (from the PIEbase *ǵerh2-, "to grow old") via Proto-Greek *gera-, "old age" and later kera /geras/, "gift of honour" in Mycenean Greek andgrau-j-, "old lady".




    2. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesprotians#Tribe)

    According to Strabo, the Thesprotians (along with the Chaonians and the Molossians) were the most famous among the fourteen tribes of Epirus, as they once ruled over the whole region. The Chaonians ruled Epirus first while the Thesprotians and Molossians ruled afterwards. Plutarch tells us that the Thesprotians, the Chaonians and the Molossians were the three principal clusters of Greek tribes that had emerged in Epirus, and all three were the most powerful among all other tribes. Strabo also records that the Thesprotians, Molossians, and Macedonians referred to old men as pelioi and old women as peliai (PIE: *pel- means grey; Ancient Greek: pelitnós– "grey", peleia – "pigeon", so-called because of its dusky grey color, poliósgrey, and pollós – "dark"). Their senators were called Peligones, similar to the Macedonian Peliganes. A mid-4th century BC inscription from Goumani indicates that the organisation of the Thesprotian state was similar to that the other Epirotes.



    3.(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selloi)

    The Selloi were
    inhabitants of Epirus in ancient Greece, in a region between Dodona—site of the oldest reported oracle—and the Achelous river; Aristotle named the area ancient Hellas. A group who were formerly called Graeci (Graikoi) and later Hellenes lived there as well.


    4. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodona#Herodotus)

    Herodotus adds:
    "But my own belief about it is this. If the Phoenicians did in fact carry away the sacred women and sell one in Libya and one in Hellas, then, in my opinion, the place where this woman was sold in what is now Hellas, but was formerly called Pelasgia, was Thesprotia; and then, being a slave there, she established a shrine of Zeus under an oak that was growing there; for it was reasonable that, as she had been a handmaid of the temple of Zeus at Thebes, she would remember that temple in the land to which she had come.


    5.(https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Γραικός)

    Γραικός - Uncertain origin. Aristotle wrote that it was an Illyrian word used to describe the Dorian tribes in Epirus, from Graii, an indigenous name of peoples in the coastal region.



    From all this it seems that Greek and Pelasgoi may be the same thing.





  10. #485
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Piro Ilir's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-04-15
    Posts
    1,126
    Points
    5,377
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,377, Level: 21
    Level completed: 66%, Points required for next Level: 173
    Overall activity: 7.0%






    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    Agreed. So, lets get back on the track.


    1.(https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...CE.BF.CE.AF.29)

    The modern English noun Greek (Old English
    Grecas or Crecas) is derived from the Latin Graeci, which in turn originates from Ancient Greek Γραικός (Graikos). It seems that the word is related with the Greek word γέρων geron, "old man" (from the PIEbase *ǵerh2-, "to grow old") via Proto-Greek *gera-, "old age" and later kera /geras/, "gift of honour" in Mycenean Greek andgrau-j-, "old lady".




    2. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesprotians#Tribe)

    According to Strabo, the Thesprotians (along with the Chaonians and the Molossians) were the most famous among the fourteen tribes of Epirus, as they once ruled over the whole region. The Chaonians ruled Epirus first while the Thesprotians and Molossians ruled afterwards. Plutarch tells us that the Thesprotians, the Chaonians and the Molossians were the three principal clusters of Greek tribes that had emerged in Epirus, and all three were the most powerful among all other tribes. Strabo also records that the Thesprotians, Molossians, and Macedonians referred to old men as pelioi and old women as peliai (PIE: *pel- means grey; Ancient Greek: pelitnós– "grey", peleia – "pigeon", so-called because of its dusky grey color, poliósgrey, and pollós – "dark"). Their senators were called Peligones, similar to the Macedonian Peliganes. A mid-4th century BC inscription from Goumani indicates that the organisation of the Thesprotian state was similar to that the other Epirotes.



    3.(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selloi)

    The Selloi were
    inhabitants of Epirus in ancient Greece, in a region between Dodona—site of the oldest reported oracle—and the Achelous river; Aristotle named the area ancient Hellas. A group who were formerly called Graeci (Graikoi) and later Hellenes lived there as well.


    4. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodona#Herodotus)

    Herodotus adds:
    "But my own belief about it is this. If the Phoenicians did in fact carry away the sacred women and sell one in Libya and one in Hellas, then, in my opinion, the place where this woman was sold in what is now Hellas, but was formerly called Pelasgia, was Thesprotia; and then, being a slave there, she established a shrine of Zeus under an oak that was growing there; for it was reasonable that, as she had been a handmaid of the temple of Zeus at Thebes, she would remember that temple in the land to which she had come.


    5.(https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Γραικός)

    Γραικός - Uncertain origin. Aristotle wrote that it was an Illyrian word used to describe the Dorian tribes in Epirus, from Graii, an indigenous name of peoples in the coastal region.



    From all this it seems that Greek and Pelasgoi may be the same thing.




    Yes, by ancient writers we had in Crete dorians, pelasgians, mycenians, minoans etc. Yes, we had the pelasgians among the allies of troy. Definitely they were non Hellenic population, and probably non IE population either. By ancient Hellenic writers we know that pelasgians tongue was intelligible by the hellenes. Those writers wrote that those non Greek people lived till the 500 bce in south Greece. Probably fully assimilated later , or forced to leave.

  11. #486
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Piro Ilir's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-04-15
    Posts
    1,126
    Points
    5,377
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,377, Level: 21
    Level completed: 66%, Points required for next Level: 173
    Overall activity: 7.0%






    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    noUseForAname
    Why you put Illyirans in this thread. What Illyrians have with Pelasgians? They have nothing, two completely different populations, different origin, in different times, in different locations.

    Here is one opinion about Pelasgians, Calvin Evans, American author and historian:

    The Pelasgians: The Black Original inhabitants of Ancient Greece


    https://saggigga.wordpress.com/2014/...ncient-greece/

    ...
    What do you think about it?

    This is for discussion. Lets all we members try to strictly hold thread.
    The maximum you should say here is different location, not different times. Illyrians came to Balkans around early bronze age or late Neolithic as I have read by serious writers. Pelasgians were mentioned during the war of troy 1130 circa . Also they have been mentioned later in Crete and in south Greece till the 500 bce in some isolated pockets. But we have epirus region, where we have Illyrians, hellenes and pelasgians too. The site of Dodona was the only one important worshiping site for them.

  12. #487
    Forced to be australian Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    04-06-13
    Location
    from shkodra working in australia
    Posts
    285
    Points
    2,865
    Level
    15
    Points: 2,865, Level: 15
    Level completed: 39%, Points required for next Level: 185
    Overall activity: 2.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    e1b
    MtDNA haplogroup
    m78

    Ethnic group
    albanian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Maleth View Post
    Do not worry too much about e-v13 of Kosovo, it only has just under 2 million population compared to the just under 3 million of Albania, 11 million of Greece, and just over 7 million of Bulgaria.....other E-V13 hotspots
    You should be worried because over half population of albania are ghegs.their is 1.5 million in kosova an another 1.5 million in albania an their is another 600 thousand in macedonia an 90 thousand in serbia an 30 thousand in montenegro.An every single one of these groups are related through tribes,now since the population of albania is only 2.775 million im sure you can do your maths.An when you look at the percent of ev-13 in kosova i think around 47% an add the other percent of ev-13 in albanian would give a much bigger percentage as im betting most of the population in albania carring the ev-13 would most likey be gheg.so im guessing around 65% of gheg albanian even more would carry ev-13.Then add the 40% of greek ev-13 holders in peloponnese an population of their is only 1,100,071 makes it very much less since greece population is 11 million.dont forget the albanian population in peloponnese take away the population of them an arvantie albanians an you wil have less ev-13 in greece.ot to mentions ghegs are really much a sicluded people with seprate language to everyone else.an also tosk has you guys have 20 diffrent dilects..seems to me everywhere albanians are their is a high percent of ev-13. peloponnese has the highest ammount of ev-13 than any place in greece..

    Population of macedonia is 2.1 million an 600 thousand albanians living their is a percentige or 35% now whats amount of ev-13 in macedonia?Im sure its close to 33%..hmmm interesting.

  13. #488
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    26-08-14
    Posts
    200
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Country: Canada



    So here I am back after some couple of years, did not do much research though but would like to start again and see what are the new findings for E-V13 and R1b.

    Anyone who has anything interesting please share...

  14. #489
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience PointsRecommendation Second Class

    Join Date
    18-08-15
    Posts
    1,370
    Points
    5,859
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,859, Level: 22
    Level completed: 62%, Points required for next Level: 191
    Overall activity: 3.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-L2
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5a

    Ethnic group
    Swiss
    Country: Switzerland



    Quote Originally Posted by noUseForAname View Post
    So here I am back after some couple of years, did not do much research though but would like to start again and see what are the new findings for E-V13 and R1b.

    Anyone who has anything interesting please share...
    Welcome back Megalophias.

  15. #490
    Regular Member Achievements:
    500 Experience Points1 year registered
    Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-04-18
    Age
    27
    Posts
    105
    Points
    905
    Level
    7
    Points: 905, Level: 7
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 45
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283

    Ethnic group
    Ancient
    Country: United States



    Pelasgians were not true hellens. They are aboriginals and indigenous before hellens. But dorians, or Lacedaemons hellenized them. Just as they did with many other surrounding peoples before them.

  16. #491
    Regular Member Achievements:
    500 Experience Points1 year registered
    Wanderer's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-04-18
    Age
    27
    Posts
    105
    Points
    905
    Level
    7
    Points: 905, Level: 7
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 45
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J-L283

    Ethnic group
    Ancient
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    The maximum you should say here is different location, not different times. Illyrians came to Balkans around early bronze age or late Neolithic as I have read by serious writers. Pelasgians were mentioned during the war of troy 1130 circa . Also they have been mentioned later in Crete and in south Greece till the 500 bce in some isolated pockets. But we have epirus region, where we have Illyrians, hellenes and pelasgians too. The site of Dodona was the only one important worshiping site for them.
    The carrians were the first islanders of the aegean sea before greeks. When they were under minos rule, they didnt pay tribute but instead manned the ships of minos navy. This reason is why carians were among the most respected nation. But later Ionians drove them out of the aegean back to west asia. Their homeland before they colonized the agean before ionians
    As the carians living in Caria say they have always lived in caria but the minoans said the carians were tje first in the aegean before them. I have not finished reading the histories by heordotus but this is where you can find the information

    Colchians by the caucus were egyptians. They were remenants of an egyptian army of Sesostris

  17. #492
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    26-08-14
    Posts
    200
    Points
    7,381
    Level
    25
    Points: 7,381, Level: 25
    Level completed: 67%, Points required for next Level: 169
    Overall activity: 5.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b

    Country: Canada



    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Pelasgians were not true hellens. They are aboriginals and indigenous before hellens. But dorians, or Lacedaemons hellenized them. Just as they did with many other surrounding peoples before them.
    Yes, most likely and this is according to history i believe...

  18. #493
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    27-03-18
    Location
    santa rosa ,ca, USA
    Posts
    71
    Points
    1,222
    Level
    9
    Points: 1,222, Level: 9
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 128
    Overall activity: 28.0%


    Ethnic group
    chinese
    Country: USA - California



    As current Albanian Speaking regions have the highest E-V13 in the world (refer to my table) and a bit higher than the current ethnic greeks than it doesn't correlate that they have migrated from the north or (as some argued) from the today Romania region. But actually might have migrated from the very south Peloponnese area, Pindus Mountain south west Thessaly up to north Albania and Kosovo where E-V15 is 47.5%, interesting。

  19. #494
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    27-03-18
    Location
    santa rosa ,ca, USA
    Posts
    71
    Points
    1,222
    Level
    9
    Points: 1,222, Level: 9
    Level completed: 36%, Points required for next Level: 128
    Overall activity: 28.0%


    Ethnic group
    chinese
    Country: USA - California



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Eva Fernández et al.,Ancient DNA Analysis of 8000 B.C. Near Eastern Farmers Supports an Early Neolithic Pioneer Maritime Colonization of Mainland Europe through Cyprus and the Aegean Islands. PLoSGenetics 2014. Open accessLINK[doi:10.1371/journal.pgen.1004401]  eager to read this.

Page 20 of 20 FirstFirst ... 10181920

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •