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Thread: Palasgians, pre Ancient Greeks...would their DNA be E-V13?

  1. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dushman View Post
    Can you stick to the topic please? Albanians don’t need reminders from a confused nation split between a Latin or Dacian origin when in fact you’re more Slavic than many actual Slavs in the Balkans.
    I don't even care about that. I don't care about nothing here, only the scientific facts. But I saw many 'arse impaled' albanians jumping to the others throat continuously. Again, let moderator Angela say how many times she (or he) gave warnings to you, albanians, for exceeding the forum rules. So, shut up, and maintain the scientific compass, without forcing the explanations to favour own history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    The only sample of Y-DNA extracted belonged to haplogroup J-M12 (J2b-L283), found in an individual dated 700-600 BC, and carried exactly the M314 derived allele also found in a Middle Bronze Age individual from Croatia (1631-1531 calBCE). While the four samples of mtDNA extracted belonged to haplogroups U5a1, H, T2b32, K1a4.[64] Therefore, Etruscans had also Steppe-related ancestry despite speaking a pre-Indo-European language."
    Can you, albanians, stop the ongoing mental spam of anything related with your ancestry ? I saw a continuous 'auto-historical elevations' of every single fact described here in such manner that is so annoying that I must stop reading anything if I see the red albanian flag until situation will turn around. Not in vain in the commie era Albania, with Romania and Bulgaria were (and unfortunately still are !) the last mohicans of the Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dushman View Post
    Relax and leave your Albanophonia and mind reading skills out of this topic.
    That region was a cultural center when Italy and the entire Europe was divided between tribes.
    So you, relax and leave your understandable immature Albanophilia.
    Which is that (super)region you're referring when Italy was full of tribes ? The Himalayan Shangri-La ?

  4. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoJ View Post
    So, you saw nothing. I'm not siding any stupid 'faction' here, but I saw many albanians suffering from that frustration. Let moderator Angela say if not so !
    I swear that you guys are so dishonest with yourselves and with others that it amazes me. Go cuck to Balkan Slavs, and plot a hypothesis that we come from Moldova or North Caucasus.

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    Could it not be possible that everyone of us would speak for him(her)self without believing he(she) is invested by some patriotic collective duty, whatever his(her) personal feelings? And without these too worn terms like 'shitty', 'nazi', 'fascist', '...-supremacist', 'leftist', 'dumb', 'idiot'... We can disagree, but what gain find the threads with this kind of insults or anathems?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoJ View Post
    I don't even care about that. I don't care about nothing here, only the scientific facts. But I saw many 'arse impaled' albanians jumping to the others throat continuously. Again, let moderator Angela say how many times she (or he) gave warnings to you, albanians, for exceeding the forum rules. So, shut up, and maintain the scientific compass, without forcing the explanations to favour own history.
    You keep repeating how we Albanians keep jumping on everyone’s throats when we’re discussing Etruscans. Not to prolong this, Ok, noted, apologies if we attacked you. Cheers.

    And as for the region I was referring to, it’s obviously Anatolia.

    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    Could it not be possible that everyone of us would speak for him(her)self without believing he(she) is invested by some patriotic collective duty, whatever his(her) personal feelings? And without these too worn terms like 'shitty', 'nazi', 'fascist', '...-supremacist', 'leftist', 'dumb', 'idiot'... We can disagree, but what gain find the threads with this kind of insults or anathems?

    Moesan, my friend, this is the result of both our human nature and Balkan nature together.

    From the simply human side, people tend to dislike and misunderstand everything someone says if he/she is from a nation they don’t like.

    From the Balkan side, our own agendas prevent us from accepting our neighbours’ claims as it will affect our own cultural/territorial claims. I don’t know why many Romanians hate us when we don’t even share borders, I guess it’s their common Slavic heritage belonging to a majority of I2a + R1a and old Orthodox brotherhood ties.

    We Albanians are not any better in this regard, but we’ve been simply lucky to belong mostly to Proto-Balkan haplogroups and that goes in accordance to our own territorial claims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    I swear that you guys are so dishonest with yourselves and with others that it amazes me. Go cuck to Balkan Slavs, and plot a hypothesis that we come from Moldova or North Caucasus.
    Did I spoke to deaf ears, or on some juvenile mental, pal ? I don't care about finding 'fine origins' and/or praising this or that fabricating fascination history ancestry......like many of you here. I don't care if your mother, or my mother, was a whore, I care to know all about my unknown mother line(age). All what I'm for is to maintain a scientific logical perspective, to talk about all sorts of possibilities and to acquire the news in that domain. I'm clear enough ? Because enough it's enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    Could it not be possible that everyone of us would speak for him(her)self without believing he(she) is invested by some patriotic collective duty, whatever his(her) personal feelings? And without these too worn terms like 'shitty', 'nazi', 'fascist', '...-supremacist', 'leftist', 'dumb', 'idiot'... We can disagree, but what gain find the threads with this kind of insults or anathems?
    Absolutely agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dushman View Post
    From the Balkan side, our own agendas prevent us from accepting our neighbours’ claims as it will affect our own cultural/territorial claims. I don’t know why many Romanians hate us when we don’t even share borders, I guess it’s their common Slavic heritage belonging to a majority of I2a + R1a and old Orthodox brotherhood ties.
    We Albanians are not any better in this regard, but we’ve been simply lucky to belong mostly to Proto-Balkan haplogroups and that goes in accordance to our own territorial claims.
    I don't give a shit on someone's territorial claims, nor even on ours, you medieval pal ! Hey, it's now the XXI century, long after the bread 'was shared' in the XVII'th, XVIII'th or XIX'th. Please fix your's 'time-clock' and stay calm. You have enough lands, we have enough lands. Use your energy to take Albania out of the last places in Europe. And Romania too. And Moldova too. And all others, too. Capito ? All peoples have enough and is no need to die many (millions)more for some retarded point of view.

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    Did you take your pills mate?
    Stop vomiting all over the forum.
    And for the last time, keep your hatred towards Albanians in your tummy. And Albanians out of your filthy mouth.
    “Man cannot live without a permanent trust in something indestructible in himself, and at the same time that indestructible something as well as his trust in it may remain permanently concealed from him.”

    Franz Kafka

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoJ View Post
    All what I'm for is to maintain a scientific logical perspective, to talk about all sorts of possibilities and to acquire the news in that domain. I'm clear enough ? Because enough it's enough.
    Mate, you just dropped the theory that E-V13 spread the Vinca culture and yet you’re the loudest “scientific logical perspective” crusader in Eupedia.

    And why are you calling me medieval? I just discovered this forum and I barely made any posts? Maybe seeing the Albanian flag on my profile triggers you into starting an argument with all the Albanians in any possible forum. 😂

    Now can we respectfully stop talking to each other entirely and focus on contributing with useful information on Pelasgians and E-V13.

    One of the most knowledgeable posters on E-V13 was Aspurg but it seems you made him abandon this topic.

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    Etruscans were probably foreigners that absorbed some of the local population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    Did you take your pills mate?
    Stop vomiting all over the forum.
    And for the last time, keep your hatred towards Albanians in your tummy. And Albanians out of your filthy mouth.
    Sorry, seems you're totally absurd and incompetent. Did you read my last reply ? Nevermind, it's useless for someones, I forgot. I don't have any hate towards ANYBODY, you silly chooco-peker. Point.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    Did you take your pills mate?
    Stop vomiting all over the forum.
    And for the last time, keep your hatred towards Albanians in your tummy. And Albanians out of your filthy mouth.
    Just ignore him, notice how he is mimicking some of the posts of Angela, especially the enough is enough part to gain her attention and mental support. This guy is so bitter that if he bites his tounge he will die poisoned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    Just ignore him, notice how he is mimicking some of the posts of Angela, especially the enough is enough part to gain her attention and mental support. This guy is so bitter that if he bites his tounge he will die poisoned.
    You are right, if it wasn't so pathetic it would be funny.

    Check this, he calls the Mod by name in the same post he mentions "arese impaled Albanians".
    Despite reporting two of his posts, after he spams two pages on Pelasgians with Albanophobia, mods really could not care less.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoJ View Post
    I don't even care about that. I don't care about nothing here, only the scientific facts. But I saw many 'arse impaled' albanians jumping to the others throat continuously. Again, let moderator Angela say how many times she (or he) gave warnings to you, albanians, for exceeding the forum rules. So, shut up, and maintain the scientific compass, without forcing the explanations to favour own history.

    Quite pathetic if you ask me.
    At times like this I lose respect for the moderation on this forum. There is no excuse for this, the posts have been up for days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dushman View Post

    One of the most knowledgeable posters on E-V13 was Aspurg but it seems you made him abandon this topic.
    I didn't abandon it, I just find it useless to discuss anything on Vinca culture spread in connection to E-V13. LeoJ should rather focus on testing more Romanians who are really poorly tested, I guess himself too. In any case proto-Romanians and proto-Albanians have some limited but existent connection looking at the current results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    Just ignore him, notice how he is mimicking some of the posts of Angela, especially the enough is enough part to gain her attention and mental support.
    No shit, really ? Grow up man, prove yourself not a bla-bla monkey and pay attention on a non-partial scientific attitude, without the nationalistic crap, which obviously you're totally lacking. And nothing is more pathetic than the 'autorefreshing' mental 'duplex' ping-pong with you're supporters, like ArchtypeOne; just show you silly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    I didn't abandon it, I just find it useless to discuss anything on Vinca culture spread in connection to E-V13. LeoJ should rather focus on testing more Romanians who are really poorly tested, I guess himself too. In any case proto-Romanians and proto-Albanians have some limited but existent connection looking at the current results.
    Glad to see you don't mind. Guess I have the right to have personal opinions. And Vinca is one of this. I can't do anything toward a better testing, you know. It's really hard to convince peoples with a minimum wage of 400 Euro's to take a 100Euro test, to discover something you can't toast on bread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    I didn't abandon it, I just find it useless to discuss anything on Vinca culture spread in connection to E-V13. LeoJ should rather focus on testing more Romanians who are really poorly tested, I guess himself too. In any case proto-Romanians and proto-Albanians have some limited but existent connection looking at the current results.
    So, it very seems I was right about Vinca connection. https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...iginate/page18

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoJ View Post
    So, it very seems I was right about Vinca connection. https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...iginate/page18
    Can you detail again what you were right about Vinca connection?

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    Quote Originally Posted by noUseForAname View Post
    Can you detail again what you were right about Vinca connection?
    We already have like 10 or 14 samples from Vinca (they are all G2a in majority with some H2 here and there) and none of them is E-V13 or E-L618, most of E-L618 are heavily related to maritime farmers, the Cardium Pottery farmers, even the Sopot/Lengyel E-L618 were just migrants from Dalmatia probably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    We already have like 10 or 14 samples from Vinca (they are all G2a in majority with some H2 here and there) and none of them is E-V13 or E-L618, most of E-L618 are heavily related to maritime farmers, the Cardium Pottery farmers, even the Sopot/Lengyel E-L618 were just migrants from Dalmatia probably.
    Did you know most, if not all, culture-related sites, as Vinca-Turdas is, have MULTIPLE horizons ? Is it so hard to understand that for god sake, people ?

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    I am trying to research this amongst some other topics. One thought that had occurred to me, related to this thread: If I recall correctly the Pelasgians were described as being 'darker skinned' and old or native inhabitants. As for skin color that might be what we think of as African, but then again the Greeks described Ethiopians as 'burnt-skinned' implying to me that 'dark skinned' would be different than that; maybe if you had or capable of a deep tan. When we associate the Anatolian farmers coming in bringing lighter skin/brown eyes and WHG, like that individual found in Spain with dark skin and blue eyes, with Dark skin I would say that the WHG haplogroups might be more associated with the Pelasgians than would be the Farmers. However it could be way more complex than that. A mix of WHG and Famers living in Aegean and Mediterranean could also compose them and their haplogroups could be then more varied. We definitely would need ancient DNA and archaeological context to be sure. Very interesting topic.

  24. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenpl View Post
    What about this fun with Vinca-Turdas and Starcevo-Cris that were full of E's !? lol! Maybe it was some E lost in the woods that collapsed into a deep ravine ?! Didn't anyone find him ?! Let's see: I1896 G2a2b2a1a-PF3346; I1889 G2a2a1a2a-PF3237; I0634 G2a2a1a3a-FGC34624; I1131 G2a2a1a3-FGC34625; I1887 H2; I1880 G2a2b2b1a-F872 / PF3355; I1877 G2a2b2b-PF3359; VC3-2 G2a2a1a3-FGC34625; I1876 G2a2a1-PF3148; I2532 G2a2b2b; So no one found him! ...
    Because E-V13 is a Neolithic Farmer lineage for sure, but not from Balkans. In Balkans, specifically Epirus/Albania there might be some E-L618 but no E-V13. Bulgarian leaks from Stamov had Bulgarian Late Neolithic samples full of G2a and then right away in Chalcolithic R1b-Z2103 shows up and dominates throughout whole Bronze Age Balkans from Adriatic to Black Sea.

    Lone Y-DNA are not indicators of anything, it's people who stay in group, and so far that French Neolithic paper indicated that Michelsberger from Switzerland/France border had E-M78 group, E-V13 earliest split is from in and around Central Europe, following the Danube river initially they landed in South Carpathians in Middle Bronze Age, and then from within the range of Middle Bronze Age and Late Bronze Age they flooded Balkans, but mostly Late Bronze Age, and yet another group spread in Early Iron Age, E-V13 Z5017 => CTS9320.

    So, apparently, i also have seen it myself in a paper that the heavy E-V13 Kapitan Andreevo belonged to Psenicevo-Babadag Culture who in turn were related to Mediana and Gava-Holigrady Culture.

    Despite all of this, it's funny because Marija Gimbutas said Pelasgians were just a relic of all this related Babadag Culture during Late Bronze Age upheaval and ancient Greek authors were totally confused. They were not native in Greece, so it might hold water that E-V13 spread with Pelasgians in Greece but they were not Pre-Greek people. Who knows. Time will tell.

  25. #575
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    I will be very surprised if there would be no
    E-v13 among the 82 remains from future etruscan paper ( 800 bc -1000Ad)
    since this paper should include also some south italian samples and the ancient greeks were there big time
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC7391/

    https://yfull.com/mtree/H3ap/

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