Palasgians, pre Ancient Greeks...would their DNA be E-V13?

[King Bardhyl]

You can be precise, it is not my theory, it is Georgiev theory, this scientist set it based on extensive research.

It has link with topic to avoid unnecessary confusion about connections between the present and the past that does not exist.

There is no unnecessary confusion, you have to be sure, evrything is clear.


P.S.
BTW, did you speak with your teacher of history?

[Yetos]

There is no unnecessary confusion, you have to be sure, evrything is clear.


P.S.
BTW, did you speak with your teacher of history?

question,


are you a teacher of history?

[Sile]

that is part of the knowledge we have,

we also know that Athens was inhabited by Pelasgians,
thoukidides recogn the thyrrenians as pre-Greek athenean language,
we know the pre-Greek connection of Athens with Minoans,
and we know that did not participate in troyan war,
and main of all we know that Attica Orchomenos etc is a pelasgian language.
Herodotos describe Ionians mostly as the Εθνος πελασγικον,
we know that Phokaeis and pelasgians lived beside each other,
we know that island of Lemnos village of Καμινια Caminia was inhabited by Etruscans, who tend to move west,
and pelasgian mostly occupy the North part of Aeagean, as you already said, the Pelasgian Argos, that is why some connect it with Troyans and Arzawa/Assuwa if the last were not IE speakers, while south was eteo-cretans, but both had connection with minor Asia and Attica,
that is why tend to speak about eteo-cretans as relatives of pelasgians,

it would seem to me that the pelasgians where later replaced by the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrygians

[noUseForAname]

This obsession with Pelasgians is very misplaced, in my opinion. This is just a word used by Greeks for certain groups of non-Greeks. They didn't know about ydna and didn't carry around spit containers to test it. No doubt the "Pelasgians" they came across were very EEF people of various yDna and mtDna combinations in different proportions depending on the group.

As we know for certain that the Pelasgians were the inhabitants living in those regions before the Ancient Greece period, then my point was that their major DNA could be E-V13, because as of today the Greek speaking and Albanian speaking regions have the highest percentage of E-V13.

It is also argued that greek and Albanian languages are 5,000 years old...here are the recent research papers...

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...=fb-share&_r=0
http://www.linguatics.com/indoeuropean_languages.htm

I will also post a Pelasgian transcripts with a translated Albanian language.

[noUseForAname]

Originally Posted by Maleth
Subject closed. New evidence

My foot Zeus foot at Athens archeological museum



Haha Maleth, a very nice idea actually, i recently saw those things online...

You have done your test right?.... i see it said E-V13...

I also saw other ancient greeks statue foots and they looked the same....

Would that mean that that specific foot is E-V13?

Anyone who has done the test please take a pic...I havent done the test yet though...

[Maleth]

Originally Posted by Maleth
Subject closed. New evidence

My foot Zeus foot at Athens archeological museum



Haha Maleth, a very nice idea actually, i recently saw those things online...

You have done your test right?.... i see it said E-V13...

I also saw other ancient greeks statue foots and they looked the same....

Would that mean that that specific foot is E-V13?

Anyone who has done the test please take a pic...I havent done the test yet though...

I only learned about this by a thread someone started here some time ago, which I thought was funny .....But its true they call it Greek foot because nearly all statues in Greece have this kind of foot. Even statue of Liberty in New york has it :). I don't believe it would be something just reserved to E-V13's that could be inherited to anyone from one side or other of the family.....maybe would be more prevalent if there is some e-v13 in the mix? Don't know.

I read (if true, not sure) that Spartans used to choose this kind of foot for athletics as it had some kind of benefits. Maybe that has something to do why so many Greek statues have it.

[Angela]

I only learned about this by a thread someone started here some time ago, which I thought was funny .....But its true they call it Greek foot because nearly all statues in Greece have this kind of foot. Even statue of Liberty in New york has it :). I don't believe it would be something just reserved to E-V13's that could be inherited to anyone from one side or other of the family.....maybe would be more prevalent if there is some e-v13 in the mix? Don't know.

I read (if true, not sure) that Spartans used to choose this kind of foot for athletics as it had some kind of benefits. Maybe that has something to do why so many Greek statues have it.

For a joke I tried to send you a PM with a picture of my feet so you could tell me if I'm pure or admixed. Unfortunately, unlike the regular board, the PM system doesn't seem to let you upload from your computer...at least I couldn't figure out how to do it, which is, of course, a very different thing.

[Angela]

Sorry, double post.

[Maleth]

For a joke I tried to send you a PM with a picture of my feet so you could tell me if I'm pure or admixed. Unfortunately, unlike the regular board, the PM system doesn't seem to let you upload from your computer...at least I couldn't figure out how to do it, which is, of course, a very different thing.

Okie dokie, Angela. Feet can help BUT I would also please need nose pic (sides please and no cheating), hair texture and measurement between ears and top of head to chin. Then we can start a full analysis. I am also pleased to inform you that it will be possible to find out if you come from a clan of warrior women or just enjoyed spending the day cooking

[motzart]

I think it is a lost cause to try to associate a Y DNA haplogroup to Pelasgians. By the Mycenaean era in Greece every single major European Y DNA lineage had been there for a thousand years or more.

[Angela]

Okie dokie, Angela. Feet can help BUT I would also please need nose pic (sides please and no cheating), hair texture and measurement between ears and top of head to chin. Then we can start a full analysis. I am also pleased to inform you that it will be possible to find out if you come from a clan of warrior women or just enjoyed spending the day cooking

Unfortunately, as I said, I can't seem to PM pictures from my computer. As for the rest, I have been feeling rather Amazon-like lately, in a Renaissance sort of way, like Caterina Sforza, perhaps, besieged by Cesare Borgia...(who met a most deserved if untimely end) and sundry others throughout her life. I would never be so power mad, or unfeeling, however, or vulgar for that matter...so, maybe Isabella D'Este? I would love to be even the palest imitation of her.

Then, of course, I don't have legions of servants and retainers. We 're expected to do it all nowadays, career, home, children, husband...
Just call me.... W O M A N...just no lard from the can of drippings...horrors!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWFhlVvYOno

[Maleth]

Then, of course, I don't have legions of servants and retainers. We 're expected to do it all nowadays, career, home, children, husband...
Just call me.... W O M A N...just no lard from the can of drippings...horrors!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWFhlVvYOno

Okie Dokie, research cancelled, until later. And I have to say thanks to the Palasgians and Zeus foot I have discovered Peggy Lee, more kick back music with a good glass of red wine. Thank you for posting

[noUseForAname]

Originally Posted by Taranis
Did the ancient Greeks have their DNA tested and then wrote down their results? I don't think so.

Absolutely wrong. The Albanians have absolutely nothing to do with the Pelasgians: there is no common substrate in Greek and Albanian (in that case, you might argue for ). And to ad-hoc label the pre-Indo-European inhabitants of the Balkans as "Pelasgians" has absolutely no basis. If you want to use the term correctly, you should talk about the Pre-Indo-European inhabitants of the Aegean.

The idea that the Albanians have something to do with the Pelasgians is entirely a confabulation from the 19th and 20th centuries.
Jeez. Whoever claimed that was a complete crank, because its in complete ignorance of archaeology and linguistics...

- Sumerian is an isolate language.
- Urbanization and agriculture in the Near East and Egypt is older than in Europe. Archaeology does not lie there.
- Literacy in Mesopotamia (Cuneiform) and Egypt (hieroglyphs) is older than in Europe (Linear A would be the oldest true European writing), again.


noUseForAname

FYI, my intention is to find dna links, and this is nothing related to nationalities.

Hopefully we will soon have ancient greeks dna, and i am suspecting that it might be E-V13 because in those areas it is with its highest percentage in the world...

Of course there is a common substrate of greeks and albanians, (still referring to dna not history), just look at the dna percentage...E-V13 is almost the same, and this is a FACT, so call them pelazgian or some other tribes, E-V13 looks like its NATIVE at least for some thousands of years...

As for civilizations, you are right, but i was still referring and trying to make sense with dna links and not what we know through history...

what about the bosnian pyramid that is argued to be 20,000 years old....predating Giza and so one?...

bosnia-pyramid.jpg

[noUseForAname]

motzart

I think it is a lost cause to try to associate a Y DNA haplogroup to Pelasgians. By the Mycenaean era in Greece every single major European Y DNA lineage had been there for a thousand years or more.

You are correct, however we are trying to maybe determine which particular y dna was with highest percentage (of course thers mixture everywhere)...as with R1b at celts....so to E-V13 to Ancient greeks or to native pre greek inhabitants....

[noUseForAname]

What can we say we really know about history and civilizations?...well it seems not a lot...
20,000 years pyramid and its oldest in the world found in Europe....

[LeBrok]

What can we say we really know about history and civilizations?...well it seems not a lot...
20,000 years pyramid and its oldest in the world found in Europe....

It is a scam.

[bicicleur]

What can we say we really know about history and civilizations?...well it seems not a lot...
20,000 years pyramid and its oldest in the world found in Europe....

extraterrestials

[noUseForAname]

extraterrestials

So apparently the bosnian piramid of the so called sun is a "cruel hoax"...lol...

[noUseForAname]

Did the ancient Greeks have their DNA tested and then wrote down their results? I don't think so.



Might be?



Absolutely wrong. The Albanians have absolutely nothing to do with the Pelasgians: there is no common substrate in Greek and Albanian (in that case, you might argue for ). And to ad-hoc label the pre-Indo-European inhabitants of the Balkans as "Pelasgians" has absolutely no basis. If you want to use the term correctly, you should talk about the Pre-Indo-European inhabitants of the Aegean.

The idea that the Albanians have something to do with the Pelasgians is entirely a confabulation from the 19th and 20th centuries.



Jeez. Whoever claimed that was a complete crank, because its in complete ignorance of archaeology and linguistics...

- Sumerian is an isolate language.
- Urbanization and agriculture in the Near East and Egypt is older than in Europe. Archaeology does not lie there.
- Literacy in Mesopotamia (Cuneiform) and Egypt (hieroglyphs) is older than in Europe (Linear A would be the oldest true European writing), again.

FYI, my intention is to find dna links, and this is nothing related to nationalities.

Hopefully we will soon have ancient greeks dna, and i am suspecting that it might be E-V13 because in those areas it is with its highest percentage in the world...

Of course there is a common substrate of greeks and albanians, (still referring to dna not history), just look at the dna percentage...E-V13 is almost the same, and this is a FACT, so call them pelazgian or some other tribes, E-V13 looks like its NATIVE at least for some thousands of years...

As for civilizations, you are right, but i was still referring and trying to make sense with dna links and not what we know through history...

[Gorgonzola]

So what was the most possible haplogroup for the pelasgians?

[noUseForAname]

LemnianStele3.jpg
Untitled-TrueColor-03.jpg
Untitled-TrueColor-04.jpg
Untitled-TrueColor-05.jpg
Untitled-TrueColor-06.jpg

This is what i have found so far...

This stele has been discovered in the island of Lemno and, in general terms, it comes considered much difficult and little every convincing attempt to comprise the content of that writing. And it is for that reason very little attempts have been made to seriously engage and melt that enigma. We begin showing this Stele of Lemno, attributed to 6th century BCE (but from some characterized studious is older):
But, observing with attention the registration, since the first words, we can see that it is recorded in the pelasgo-illyrian language, like in the rest of the euro-Mediterranean territories, and it is therefore obvious that we can decipher it only through the Albanian language, this is the translation

This entire bustrophedic registration, where the letters TH and H can be read continuously, in order to represent sighs and sobs, as we would today make AH and OH contains tormenting complains of a funeral, obviously for the dead person that had been also a great hero. We now rewrite our the Stele in a modified shape adapting it to the modern era:

MOURNING, we are in full mourning,
anguish, ill luck all over,
women covered with black veils.
Grief you have given to the kinship, oh kinsman!
He belongs to our stock, Ah! , Oh!
He was torn away from us, what misfortune.
But in order which guilt, this disaster?
Gelid is his golden throne, Ah!
Of his fame we were proud, Oh!
Grief, grief in the whole world,
tearing him away, we are beheaded!
This grief struck us suddently, ah!
Alas, who knows for what fault? Oh!

Our kinsman he was,
Why ever did he struck us with such grief?
In Grief and despair, ah!
tears choke us, Oh!
He, who kept up our stock,
for what fault, now does he extinguish it?
Ah! Oh!

Oh! precious he was,
knife wounds, oh misfortune,
he suffered so much!
In Silence, never uttering an insult!
Ah! Oh!
You, kinsman, you have beheaded us, Oh!
You, great affliction you have given us, Ah! Oh!


http://www.thelosttruth.altervista.o...n_english.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ALemnian_language

[noUseForAname]

the E-V13 came from levant, the myth of Phoenician Alphabet,

How can E-V13 come from Levant to Balkans when it is proved that those areas have only 2%...this doesnt make any sense...

Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).
—Cruciani et al. (2007)

So this looks like it proves that current Greek and Albanian speaking regions are the ROOTS of E-V13 as it percentages go above 40%...

[Ike]

So this looks like it proves that current Greek and Albanian speaking regions are the ROOTS of E-V13 as it percentages go above 40%...

No it doesn't prove anything. It just suggests.

[Taranis]

This is what i have found so far...

This stele has been discovered in the island of Lemno and, in general terms, it comes considered much difficult and little every convincing attempt to comprise the content of that writing. And it is for that reason very little attempts have been made to seriously engage and melt that enigma. We begin showing this Stele of Lemno, attributed to 6th century BCE (but from some characterized studious is older):
But, observing with attention the registration, since the first words, we can see that it is recorded in the pelasgo-illyrian language, like in the rest of the euro-Mediterranean territories, and it is therefore obvious that we can decipher it only through the Albanian language, this is the translation

This entire bustrophedic registration, where the letters TH and H can be read continuously, in order to represent sighs and sobs, as we would today make AH and OH contains tormenting complains of a funeral, obviously for the dead person that had been also a great hero. We now rewrite our the Stele in a modified shape adapting it to the modern era:
MOURNING, we are in full mourning,
anguish, ill luck all over,
women covered with black veils.
Grief you have given to the kinship, oh kinsman!
He belongs to our stock, Ah! , Oh!
He was torn away from us, what misfortune.
But in order which guilt, this disaster?
Gelid is his golden throne, Ah!
Of his fame we were proud, Oh!
Grief, grief in the whole world,
tearing him away, we are beheaded!
This grief struck us suddently, ah!
Alas, who knows for what fault? Oh!

Our kinsman he was,
Why ever did he struck us with such grief?
In Grief and despair, ah!
tears choke us, Oh!
He, who kept up our stock,
for what fault, now does he extinguish it?
Ah! Oh!

Oh! precious he was,
knife wounds, oh misfortune,
he suffered so much!
In Silence, never uttering an insult!
Ah! Oh!
You, kinsman, you have beheaded us, Oh!
You, great affliction you have given us, Ah! Oh!

Where do you keep digging up this nonsense?
No offense to you, but this is yet more nonsense from an somebody who has no understanding of linguistics and who just wishes to magically "prove" the 'ancientness' of Albanian (ignorant of the fact that the internal history of Albanian tells us very clearly that the language, 2000 years ago, would have been very different), without caring what's actually written down in the Lemnos inscription, namely an entirely different language.

The Lemnos inscription isn't written in some wild-eyed, cranky "Pelasgo-Illyrian", but in a language closely related with Etruscan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ALemnian_language

Why do you link to something in the commentaries of wikipedia, while the Wikipedia article itself is a lot better written (ironically enough) and shows us the actual situation:

A relationship between Lemnian, Etruscan, and Raetian as a Tyrsenian language family is widely accepted due to demonstrations of close connections in vocabulary and grammar. For example,

both Etruscan and Lemnian share two unique dative cases, type-I *-si and type-II *-ale, shown both on the Lemnos Stele (Hulaie-ši "for Hulaie", Φukiasi-ale "for the Phocaean") and in inscriptions written in Etruscan (aule-si - "To Aule" - on the Cippus Perusinus as well as the inscription mi mulu Laris-ale Velχaina-si, meaning "I was blessed for Laris Velchaina").
They also share the genitive in *-s and a simple past tense in *-a-i (Etruscan -⟨e⟩ as in ame "was" (< *amai); Lemnian -⟨ai⟩ as in šivai, meaning "lived").

In contrast, the Illyrians were speakers of Indo-European languages.

Would you be happier if I claim that Albanian is descended from Martian? It would make just as much sense as this "Pelasgo-Illyrian" fantasy.

[Sile]

How can E-V13 come from Levant to Balkans when it is proved that those areas have only 2%...this doesnt make any sense...

Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).
—Cruciani et al. (2007)

So this looks like it proves that current Greek and Albanian speaking regions are the ROOTS of E-V13 as it percentages go above 40%...

I read E-V13 came via cyrene in North-Africa, a high trading area later on with the ancient Greeks