Palasgians, pre Ancient Greeks...would their DNA be E-V13?

Okie dokie, Angela. Feet can help (y) BUT I would also please need nose pic (sides please and no cheating), hair texture and measurement between ears and top of head to chin. Then we can start a full analysis. I am also pleased to inform you that it will be possible to find out if you come from a clan of warrior women or just enjoyed spending the day cooking :giggle: :)


Unfortunately, as I said, I can't seem to PM pictures from my computer.
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As for the rest, I have been feeling rather Amazon-like lately, in a Renaissance sort of way, like Caterina Sforza, perhaps, besieged by Cesare Borgia...(who met a most deserved if untimely end) and sundry others throughout her life. I would never be so power mad, or unfeeling, however, or vulgar for that matter...so, maybe Isabella D'Este? I would love to be even the palest imitation of her.

Then, of course, I don't have legions of servants and retainers. We 're expected to do it all nowadays, career, home, children, husband...
Just call me.... W O M A N...just no lard from the can of drippings...horrors!
petrified.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWFhlVvYOno:LOL::LOL:
 
Then, of course, I don't have legions of servants and retainers. We 're expected to do it all nowadays, career, home, children, husband...
Just call me.... W O M A N...just no lard from the can of drippings...horrors!
petrified.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWFhlVvYOno:LOL::LOL:

Okie Dokie, research cancelled, until later. And I have to say thanks to the Palasgians and Zeus foot I have discovered Peggy Lee, more kick back music with a good glass of red wine. Thank you for posting (y):LOL:
 
Originally Posted by Taranis
Did the ancient Greeks have their DNA tested and then wrote down their results? I don't think so.

Absolutely wrong. The Albanians have absolutely nothing to do with the Pelasgians: there is no common substrate in Greek and Albanian (in that case, you might argue for ). And to ad-hoc label the pre-Indo-European inhabitants of the Balkans as "Pelasgians" has absolutely no basis. If you want to use the term correctly, you should talk about the Pre-Indo-European inhabitants of the Aegean.

The idea that the Albanians have something to do with the Pelasgians is entirely a confabulation from the 19th and 20th centuries.
Jeez. Whoever claimed that was a complete crank, because its in complete ignorance of archaeology and linguistics...
vomitting.gif


- Sumerian is an isolate language.
- Urbanization and agriculture in the Near East and Egypt is older than in Europe. Archaeology does not lie there.
- Literacy in Mesopotamia (Cuneiform) and Egypt (hieroglyphs) is older than in Europe (Linear A would be the oldest true European writing), again.



noUseForAname

FYI, my intention is to find dna links, and this is nothing related to nationalities.

Hopefully we will soon have ancient greeks dna, and i am suspecting that it might be E-V13 because in those areas it is with its highest percentage in the world...

Of course there is a common substrate of greeks and albanians, (still referring to dna not history), just look at the dna percentage...E-V13 is almost the same, and this is a FACT, so call them pelazgian or some other tribes, E-V13 looks like its NATIVE at least for some thousands of years...

As for civilizations, you are right, but i was still referring and trying to make sense with dna links and not what we know through history...

what about the bosnian pyramid that is argued to be 20,000 years old....predating Giza and so one?...

bosnia-pyramid.jpg
 
motzart
I think it is a lost cause to try to associate a Y DNA haplogroup to Pelasgians. By the Mycenaean era in Greece every single major European Y DNA lineage had been there for a thousand years or more.

You are correct, however we are trying to maybe determine which particular y dna was with highest percentage (of course thers mixture everywhere)...as with R1b at celts....so to E-V13 to Ancient greeks or to native pre greek inhabitants....
 
What can we say we really know about history and civilizations?...well it seems not a lot...
20,000 years pyramid and its oldest in the world found in Europe....

 
What can we say we really know about history and civilizations?...well it seems not a lot...
20,000 years pyramid and its oldest in the world found in Europe....
It is a scam.
 
Did the ancient Greeks have their DNA tested and then wrote down their results? I don't think so.



Might be? :rolleyes:



Absolutely wrong. The Albanians have absolutely nothing to do with the Pelasgians: there is no common substrate in Greek and Albanian (in that case, you might argue for ). And to ad-hoc label the pre-Indo-European inhabitants of the Balkans as "Pelasgians" has absolutely no basis. If you want to use the term correctly, you should talk about the Pre-Indo-European inhabitants of the Aegean.

The idea that the Albanians have something to do with the Pelasgians is entirely a confabulation from the 19th and 20th centuries.



Jeez. Whoever claimed that was a complete crank, because its in complete ignorance of archaeology and linguistics... :vomitting:

- Sumerian is an isolate language.
- Urbanization and agriculture in the Near East and Egypt is older than in Europe. Archaeology does not lie there.
- Literacy in Mesopotamia (Cuneiform) and Egypt (hieroglyphs) is older than in Europe (Linear A would be the oldest true European writing), again.

FYI, my intention is to find dna links, and this is nothing related to nationalities.

Hopefully we will soon have ancient greeks dna, and i am suspecting that it might be E-V13 because in those areas it is with its highest percentage in the world...

Of course there is a common substrate of greeks and albanians, (still referring to dna not history), just look at the dna percentage...E-V13 is almost the same, and this is a FACT, so call them pelazgian or some other tribes, E-V13 looks like its NATIVE at least for some thousands of years...

As for civilizations, you are right, but i was still referring and trying to make sense with dna links and not what we know through history...
 
LemnianStele3.jpg
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This is what i have found so far...

This stele has been discovered in the island of Lemno and, in general terms, it comes considered much difficult and little every convincing attempt to comprise the content of that writing. And it is for that reason very little attempts have been made to seriously engage and melt that enigma. We begin showing this Stele of Lemno, attributed to 6th century BCE (but from some characterized studious is older):
But, observing with attention the registration, since the first words, we can see that it is recorded in the pelasgo-illyrian language, like in the rest of the euro-Mediterranean territories, and it is therefore obvious that we can decipher it only through the Albanian language, this is the translation

This entire bustrophedic registration, where the letters TH and H can be read continuously, in order to represent sighs and sobs, as we would today make AH and OH contains tormenting complains of a funeral, obviously for the dead person that had been also a great hero. We now rewrite our the Stele in a modified shape adapting it to the modern era:

MOURNING, we are in full mourning,
anguish, ill luck all over,
women covered with black veils.
Grief you have given to the kinship, oh kinsman!
He belongs to our stock, Ah! , Oh!
He was torn away from us, what misfortune.
But in order which guilt, this disaster?
Gelid is his golden throne, Ah!
Of his fame we were proud, Oh!
Grief, grief in the whole world,
tearing him away, we are beheaded!
This grief struck us suddently, ah!
Alas, who knows for what fault? Oh!

Our kinsman he was,
Why ever did he struck us with such grief?
In Grief and despair, ah!
tears choke us, Oh!
He, who kept up our stock,
for what fault, now does he extinguish it?
Ah! Oh!

Oh! precious he was,
knife wounds, oh misfortune,
he suffered so much!
In Silence, never uttering an insult!
Ah! Oh!
You, kinsman, you have beheaded us, Oh!
You, great affliction you have given us, Ah! Oh!


http://www.thelosttruth.altervista.org/SitoEnglish/pelasgian_etruscan_english.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lemnian_language

 
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the E-V13 came from levant, the myth of Phoenician Alphabet,

How can E-V13 come from Levant to Balkans when it is proved that those areas have only 2%...this doesnt make any sense...

Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).
Cruciani et al. (2007)

So this looks like it proves that current Greek and Albanian speaking regions are the ROOTS of E-V13 as it percentages go above 40%...
 
So this looks like it proves that current Greek and Albanian speaking regions are the ROOTS of E-V13 as it percentages go above 40%...

No it doesn't prove anything. It just suggests.
 
This is what i have found so far...

This stele has been discovered in the island of Lemno and, in general terms, it comes considered much difficult and little every convincing attempt to comprise the content of that writing. And it is for that reason very little attempts have been made to seriously engage and melt that enigma. We begin showing this Stele of Lemno, attributed to 6th century BCE (but from some characterized studious is older):
But, observing with attention the registration, since the first words, we can see that it is recorded in the pelasgo-illyrian language, like in the rest of the euro-Mediterranean territories, and it is therefore obvious that we can decipher it only through the Albanian language, this is the translation

This entire bustrophedic registration, where the letters TH and H can be read continuously, in order to represent sighs and sobs, as we would today make AH and OH contains tormenting complains of a funeral, obviously for the dead person that had been also a great hero. We now rewrite our the Stele in a modified shape adapting it to the modern era:
MOURNING, we are in full mourning,
anguish, ill luck all over,
women covered with black veils.
Grief you have given to the kinship, oh kinsman!
He belongs to our stock, Ah! , Oh!
He was torn away from us, what misfortune.
But in order which guilt, this disaster?
Gelid is his golden throne, Ah!
Of his fame we were proud, Oh!
Grief, grief in the whole world,
tearing him away, we are beheaded!
This grief struck us suddently, ah!
Alas, who knows for what fault? Oh!

Our kinsman he was,
Why ever did he struck us with such grief?
In Grief and despair, ah!
tears choke us, Oh!
He, who kept up our stock,
for what fault, now does he extinguish it?
Ah! Oh!

Oh! precious he was,
knife wounds, oh misfortune,
he suffered so much!
In Silence, never uttering an insult!
Ah! Oh!
You, kinsman, you have beheaded us, Oh!
You, great affliction you have given us, Ah! Oh!
Where do you keep digging up this nonsense?
No offense to you, but this is yet more nonsense from an somebody who has no understanding of linguistics and who just wishes to magically "prove" the 'ancientness' of Albanian (ignorant of the fact that the internal history of Albanian tells us very clearly that the language, 2000 years ago, would have been very different), without caring what's actually written down in the Lemnos inscription, namely an entirely different language.

The Lemnos inscription isn't written in some wild-eyed, cranky "Pelasgo-Illyrian", but in a language closely related with Etruscan.

Why do you link to something in the commentaries of wikipedia, while the Wikipedia article itself is a lot better written (ironically enough) and shows us the actual situation:

A relationship between Lemnian, Etruscan, and Raetian as a Tyrsenian language family is widely accepted due to demonstrations of close connections in vocabulary and grammar. For example,

both Etruscan and Lemnian share two unique dative cases, type-I *-si and type-II *-ale, shown both on the Lemnos Stele (Hulaie-ši "for Hulaie", Φukiasi-ale "for the Phocaean") and in inscriptions written in Etruscan (aule-si - "To Aule" - on the Cippus Perusinus as well as the inscription mi mulu Laris-ale Velχaina-si, meaning "I was blessed for Laris Velchaina").
They also share the genitive in *-s and a simple past tense in *-a-i (Etruscan -⟨e⟩ as in ame "was" (< *amai); Lemnian -⟨ai⟩ as in šivai, meaning "lived").

In contrast, the Illyrians were speakers of Indo-European languages.

Would you be happier if I claim that Albanian is descended from Martian? It would make just as much sense as this "Pelasgo-Illyrian" fantasy. :rolleyes:
 
How can E-V13 come from Levant to Balkans when it is proved that those areas have only 2%...this doesnt make any sense...

Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).
Cruciani et al. (2007)

So this looks like it proves that current Greek and Albanian speaking regions are the ROOTS of E-V13 as it percentages go above 40%...

I read E-V13 came via cyrene in North-Africa, a high trading area later on with the ancient Greeks:giggle:
 
I read E-V13 came via cyrene in North-Africa, a high trading area later on with the ancient Greeks:giggle:

Again as this article shows the E-V13 input in north Africa is an export from the Balkans and not the other way round. Also as clearly studies shows that e-v13 is rare in the region. - Next theory please? :rolleyes:

Cyrene owes its birth to a Greek Island named Thera in ancient times and which today is known as Santorini, located in the Southern Aegean Sea. As a result of the rise in population that took place in the Greek world during the 8th and 7th century BCE, the Therans became concerned about the effects of overpopulation and dispatched an expedition to the North African region

http://www.ancient.eu/cyrene/
 
Again as this article shows the E-V13 input in north Africa is an export from the Balkans and not the other way round. Also as clearly studies shows that e-v13 is rare in the region. - Next theory please? :rolleyes:

It came from there, but the original population was gone in the meantime. Mediterranean was later colonized by Greek E-V13. We'd have to dig deeper to find the ancestors of E-V13. My guess is Phoenicia.
 
It came from there, but the original population was gone in the meantime. Mediterranean was later colonized by Greek E-V13. We'd have to dig deeper to find the ancestors of E-V13. My guess is Phoenicia.

Phoenicia existed in 1550 BC to 300 BC. Battaglia et al. mentions that E-V13 has been in Europe longer than 10,000 years. And more recently (2011), Lacan et al. found that human remains excavated in a Spanish funeral cave dated to approximately 7000 years ago were in the E-V13 branch of E-M78. This means that E-V13 has been around (in Europe) pre Classic Greece era, So how is a Phoenicia (or North Africa) theory possible?
 
Phoenicia existed in 1550 BC to 300 BC. Battaglia et al. mentions that E-V13 has been in Europe longer than 10,000 years. And more recently (2011), Lacan et al. found that human remains excavated in a Spanish funeral cave dated to approximately 7000 years ago were in the E-V13 branch of E-M78. This means that E-V13 has been around (in Europe) pre Classic Greece era, So how is a Phoenicia (or North Africa) theory possible?

I'm talking just about location. Don't know how that area was called before that.
 
I read E-V13 came via cyrene in North-Africa, a high trading area later on with the ancient Greeks:giggle:

Because currently in north Africa E-V13 is only 1% which makes a good argument that it would not make any sense to come from those regions...at least not for 9,000 years...
E-V13 (9,000 years) is a subclade of e1b which is 42,000 years....so all human migrations came from Africa...

My opinion is that E-V13 is the Native of South east balkans for at least 7,000 years which spread around Europe...you have the proven skeleton found on which i have previously sourced.


http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_haplogroups_timeline.shtml
 

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