Hellens or Romei?

[albanopolis]

Greeks of middle ages called themselves Romei. This is the name they called themselves until 1850 when their English and German mentors asked them to change to Hellens. I wonder this is a pretty close word with Romani (Some gypsies call themselves Romani) or Roma (Italian capital).
I wander why did they call themselves so? I don't think they saw themselves part of gypsy culture but neither Roman culture. And still they called themselves Romei? Interesting! The name change came by a legislative law I think and this is something else.
Turks called them Junans and the country was called Junanistan. Also interesting is the fact that Ottomans called Greek sphere of influence in the Balkans as Roumelia in line with what Greeks called themselves(Romeli).
Any one can contribute to clarify this linguistic and historic fact?

 

[Yetos]

THE NAME ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ WAS DECIDED IN THE 1820's GREEK REVOLT,

AT THE 1rst NATIONAL CONGRESS ατ ΕΠΙΔΑΥΡΟΣ 1821-22

the desicion of the 1rst national congress
ot the indipendence of ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Greek_Declaration_of_Independence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_National_Assembly_at_Epidaurus




until that day we used the term Ρωμιοι or ΓΡΑΙΚΟΙ (greeks) and Ottomans called us Rums, due to East Roman Epmpire, and the Codex theodosianus, according which Hellenisation should punished by death as paganism,



the rest are your political propagandistic agenda, and exist only in Albanian super nationalistic heads,

Besides ΑΥΤΟΧΘΟΝΟΣ ΑΡΧΕΓΟΝΟΣ ΕΛΛΑΣ = Βορειος Ηπειρος.



for your info,

Yunan and yunanistan for Turks is the indipendent Greek state and citizenship,
Rum and Rumlar are the Greeks and the Greek language in Ottomans and Turkish lands

the con/polis minority Greek community under the treaties is named Rum,
The Con/polis Patriarch is not Yunans Patriarch but Rum patriarch

 

[albanopolis]

THE NAME ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ WAS DECIDED IN THE 1820's GREEK REVOLT,

AT THE 1rst NATIONAL CONGRESS ατ ΕΠΙΔΑΥΡΟΣ 1821-22

the desicion of the 1rst national congress
ot the indipendence of ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Greek_Declaration_of_Independence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_National_Assembly_at_Epidaurus



the rest are your political propagandistic agenda

What is a propaganda?
The Greek revolution was English inspired, fought almost entirely by Orthodox Albanians (Arvanites)'
You are admitting that you were calling themselves Romei and there was a reason for that.
Greeks had abandoned their ancient Hellenic consciousness in exchange for Romei whatever that is.
To me it means the composition if Greek population was no longer of a Hellenic structure but an amalgam of people that accepted living under the umbrella of a another identity, that of Romei.
Hellenic Republic you are claiming today is a false historical deception made by decree.
Now tell me where is the propaganda you are so mad of?
Facts are facts. History is already being made.

 

[Yetos]

What is a propaganda?
The Greek revolution was English inspired, fought almost entirely by Orthodox Albanians (Arvanites)'
You are admitting that you were calling themselves Romei and there was a reason for that.
Greeks had abandoned their ancient Hellenic consciousness in exchange for Romei whatever that is.
To me it means the composition if Greek population was no longer of a Hellenic structure but an amalgam of people that accepted living under the umbrella of a another identity, that of Romei.
Hellenic Republic you are claiming today is a false historical deception made by decree.
Now tell me where is the propaganda you are so mad of?
Facts are facts. History is already being made.

No Comment just trush information,


ΒΟΡΕΙΟΣ ΗΠΕΙΡΟΣ,
ΑΥΤΟΧΘΟΝΟΣ ΑΡΧΕΓΟΝΟΣ ΕΛΛΑΣ

 

[albanopolis]

No Comment just trush information,


ΒΟΡΕΙΟΣ ΗΠΕΙΡΟΣ,
ΑΥΤΟΧΘΟΝΟΣ ΑΡΧΕΓΟΝΟΣ ΕΛΛΑΣ

I would appreciate an explanation about the origin of the name Romei! I know the source of name Graecia (latin origin).
Albanians too have had a name change for their own country. Up to 1500 we were Arberesh.
As an outsider when I see that before 150 years you were Romei and next morning becoming proud Hellenes it raises the possibility of deception in my mind.
The name Romei was not an aberration. It reflected something!

 

[Taranis]

The explanation is simple: the medieval Byzantines called themselves "Romans", because they saw themselves as the continuation of the Roman Empire. The Turkish term "Junanistan" is derived from the region "Ionia".

Please, bear in mind that there's a difference between an endonym and an exonym.

 

[Aberdeen]

The classical Greeks called themselves Hellenes. Once the Greeks no longer saw themselves as the centre of an empire (Rome as a mental concept rather than a geographic location), it's not surprising that they would eventually return to calling themselves Hellenes, in memory of their glory days as Greeks.

 

[King Bardhyl]

@ Taranis and the other moderators, is it possibile to stop the people using nationalistic and chauvinist terms, can you delete the post that speak about Vorio Epirios pls? It`s an offensive post against the albanians.
Thank you

 

[Yetos]

@ Taranis and the other moderators, is it possibile to stop the people using nationalistic and chauvinist terms, can you delete the post that speak about Vorio Epirios pls? It`s an offensive post against the albanians.
Thank you

the termination world wide is North Epiros,

I do not see any nationalistic or chauvinistic term,

 

[albanopolis]

The explanation is simple: the medieval Byzantines called themselves "Romans", because they saw themselves as the continuation of the Roman Empire. The Turkish term "Junanistan" is derived from the region "Ionia".

Please, bear in mind that there's a difference between an endonym and an exonym.

Albanians were also Byzantines and they never saw themselves as Romei.
Why did Greeks?
I am concerned that naturally Greeks did not see themselves as hairs of Hellenes but rather as a collection of people form Rome which is also historically correct.
Because according to your explanation Romani Gypsy also had to see themselves as Romans which is not true.

 

[LeBrok]

@ Taranis and the other moderators, is it possibile to stop the people using nationalistic and chauvinist terms, can you delete the post that speak about Vorio Epirios pls? It`s an offensive post against the albanians.
Thank you

Only if you stop using offensive posts against Greeks, Serbs and the rest of Balkans.

 

[Robert6]

@ Taranis and the other moderators, is it possibile to stop the people using nationalistic and chauvinist terms, can you delete the post that speak about Vorio Epirios pls? It`s an offensive post against the albanians.
Thank you

So then your picture is offensive and nationalistic, how come the territories of Greece FYROM and Montenegro are in Albania?
While Greeks are living in Southern Albania in Northern Epirus.

 

[LeBrok]

Albanians were also Byzantines and they never saw themselves as Romei.

Do you have Albanian records from Middle Ages saying this? So who do you know what Albanians of Middle Ages thought of themselves?

Because according to your explanation Romani Gypsy also had to see themselves as Romans which is not true.

It doesn't matter what Gypsy call themselves. It doesn't change historical relationship between Greeks and Romans and etymology of names they called themselves. I can call myself Romulus, or citizens of today's Rome call themselves not Romans but Italians. Again, it has no bearing whatsoever on what Greeks were called and how they want to be called now, or even how Gypsies wants to be called.
Read Taranis post again for clean and logical explanation to your question, and leave the Gypsies alone. Before your disguised attempt comparing Greeks to Gypsies becomes obvious.
Attempt to demean Greeks through racism to Gypsies?

 

[King Bardhyl]

Only if you stop using offensive posts against Greeks, Serbs and the rest of Balkans.

Can you bring me an offensive post ?
It‘s shame for you that are part of this
disgusting game.

 

[King Bardhyl]

Only if you stop using offensive posts against Greeks, Serbs and the rest of Balkans.

So LeBrok i am waiting your proves, the next time you hid will do so this time?

 

[King Bardhyl]

So then your picture is offensive and nationalistic, how come the territories of Greece FYROM and Montenegro are in Albania?
While Greeks are living in Southern Albania in Northern Epirus.

I have to explain my friend. My paternal grandfather is from Drenica region Kosova, my paternal grandmother is from Chameria region today in Greece.
My grandfather from mother is from Shkup today Fyrom and my grandmother from mother is from Ulqin today Montenegro.
My grandparents, ethnic Albanians in have come Albania because they have driven from their homeland by the Greeks and Serbs in different periods of time. They have shown me the horrors that they have experienced when they left their homeland.
You will ask me why this thing happened?
And I'll tell you. In the early nineteenth century your country Russia had a plan for the creation of two states in the Balkans, Greece, Serbia, which Russia wanted to have as an ally. Albanians were not in these plans, so the shortest route was annihilation of the Albanians.
Disasters and wars in the Balkans have been due to nationalist platforms. There are two countries in the Balkans that have nationalist platform, Serbia with Na?ertanije - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Greece with Megali_Idea
.
No other Balkan countries have a nationalist platform. WE albanians don`t have an nationalistic platforms.
The main responsibility for this situation to my nation is your country, RUSSIA.

We, Albanians know very well our national borders. I am about to quote you a very famous author, George Finlay regarded worldwide as having written the definitive work on History of the Greek Revolution.

History of the Greek Revolution (1861) Volume: 1

The Albanians

The Albanian forms a distinct race among the nations of Europe. They have been supposed by some to be the representatives of the Pelasgians. They call themselves Shkipetar. Some suppose them to have occupied the regions they now inhabit before the days of Homer, and that they are the lineal descendants of the race to which the ancient Epirots and Macedonians belonged as cognate tribes. Alexander the Great must, according to these archaeologists, have spoken an ancient Albanian dialect at his riotous banquets with his Macedonian officers.

Nearly the same boundary separates the Hellenic from the non-Hellenic population at the present day as in ancient times. Thucydides calls the Amphilochians who dwelt at the head of the Gulf of Arta barbarians. Strabo says that one race inhabited the whole country, from the Acroceraunian Mountains to the borders of Thessaly and to the plain of Pelagonia, under the name of Epirots or Macedonians, for both spoke the same language.
The whole of Albania, from the Gulf of Arta to the Lake of Skodra, is divided into innumerable lateral valleys by rugged mountains, which render the communications so difficult as to confine trade to a few lines of transport.

This is called AUTOCTHONOUS.

But we, Albanians think that Balkan countries should leave after nationalism and follow the example of Germany and France. We do not forget history, but we decided to look ahead.
We think that the way our country is integration into the European family and not to deal with maps and notions of nineteenth-century.
We believe that in this family will find a solution and the Albanian national problem.
We do not think that changing the borders will solve this problem. We think that the basic values ​​of the civilized world as democracy, law enforcement, human rights are the only solution to our national problem.
The problem is that some members here have a clear antialbanian agenda.I've reported many times to the moderators but nobody takes action here.
Do you agree with this you Robert6?

P.S.
If you are interesed i can bring a lot of evidences,although some of them are really horrible and will stun you.

 

[albanopolis]

Do you have Albanian records from Middle Ages saying this? So who do you know what Albanians of Middle Ages thought of themselves?


Because according to your explanation Romani Gypsy also had to see themselves as Romans which is not true.

It doesn't matter what Gypsy call themselves. It doesn't change historical relationship between Greeks and Romans and etymology of names they called themselves. I can call myself Romulus, or citizens of today's Rome call themselves not Romans but Italians. Again, it has no bearing whatsoever on what Greeks were called and how they want to be called now, or even how Gypsies wants to be called.
Read Taranis post again for clean and logical explanation to your question, and leave the Gypsies alone. Before your disguised attempt comparing Greeks to Gypsies becomes obvious.
Attempt to demean Greeks through racism to Gypsies?[/QUOTE]

My concern is that the nomination of today's Greeks as Hellenes might be an inaccurate description of today's Greek population. Its a nomination by decree not by god's will. The same thing are trying to do Slavic Macedonians by calling themselves by decree Macedonians and Greeks are going insane all over the place.
Your simplified explanation that Romei came from Rome is questionable.
How come a nation that was supposed to illuminate the world, that never forgot to write and read, all of the sudden forgot its name?
A possible explanation is that today's Greek population is partially Hellene, where foreign elements are a majority in the Greek state. Living example is Hungary where the seemingly Hun minority imposed their language and culture to Gothic elements. I did not take the Romani Gypsi example to compare them racially Greeks but to oppose your superficially simplistic explanation that whoever has the root word Roma is because of Romans.
Greeks at 1800 were under Turkish occupation and according to the rule you are explaining their name should have been Ottomanei. The name change was advised by English and Germans.
My point is that one explanation is that there were to many foreign people there and the name Hellen is an exaggeration.

 

[Yetos]

i have to explain my friend. My paternal grandfather is from drenica region kosova, my paternal grandmother is from chameria region today in greece.
My grandfather from mother is from shkup today fyrom and my grandmother from mother is from ulqin today montenegro.
My grandparents, ethnic albanians in have come albania because they have driven from their homeland by the greeks and serbs in different periods of time. They have shown me the horrors that they have experienced when they left their homeland.
You will ask me why this thing happened?
And i'll tell you. In the early nineteenth century your country russia had a plan for the creation of two states in the balkans, greece, serbia, which russia wanted to have as an ally. Albanians were not in these plans, so the shortest route was annihilation of the albanians.
Disasters and wars in the balkans have been due to nationalist platforms. There are two countries in the balkans that have nationalist platform, serbia with na?ertanije - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and greece with megali_idea
.
No other balkan countries have a nationalist platform. we albanians don`t have an nationalistic platforms.
the main responsibility for this situation to my nation is your country, russia.

we, albanians know very well our national borders. I am about to quote you a very famous author, george finlay regarded worldwide as having written the definitive work on history of the greek revolution.

History of the greek revolution (1861) volume: 1

the albanians

the albanian forms a distinct race among the nations of europe. They have been supposed by some to be the representatives of the pelasgians. They call themselves shkipetar. Some suppose them to have occupied the regions they now inhabit before the days of homer, and that they are the lineal descendants of the race to which the ancient epirots and macedonians belonged as cognate tribes. Alexander the great must, according to these archaeologists, have spoken an ancient albanian dialect at his riotous banquets with his macedonian officers.

Nearly the same boundary separates the hellenic from the non-hellenic population at the present day as in ancient times. Thucydides calls the amphilochians who dwelt at the head of the gulf of arta barbarians. Strabo says that one race inhabited the whole country, from the acroceraunian mountains to the borders of thessaly and to the plain of pelagonia, under the name of epirots or macedonians, for both spoke the same language.
the whole of albania, from the gulf of arta to the lake of skodra, is divided into innumerable lateral valleys by rugged mountains, which render the communications so difficult as to confine trade to a few lines of transport.

This is called autocthonous.

but we, albanians think that balkan countries should leave after nationalism and follow the example of germany and france. We do not forget history, but we decided to look ahead.
We think that the way our country is integration into the european family and not to deal with maps and notions of nineteenth-century.
We believe that in this family will find a solution and the albanian national problem.
We do not think that changing the borders will solve this problem. We think that the basic values ​​of the civilized world as democracy, law enforcement, human rights are the only solution to our national problem.
The problem is that some members here have a clear antialbanian agenda.i've reported many times to the moderators but nobody takes action here.
do you agree with this you robert6?

p.s.
If you are interesed i can bring a lot of evidences,although some of them are really horrible and will stun you.

ΑΥΤΟΧΘΟΝΟΣ ΑΡΧΕΓΟΝΟΣ ΕΛΛΑΣ = ΗΕΠΕΙΡΟΣ
aytochthonos archegonos ellas = epiros


the maps of Georgiev by wiki

1rst map

2nd map


ok I personally have my arquments about some things,
the above maps with little correction, at least for me, is mostly based upon the world around and little before troyan war

but is obvious that what if Greek origin from IE arsenic bronze road then starting place was lake Lychnitis or Lyncistis in Makedonian dialect, modern Ohrid,
and from there spread south,

if we choose the other hypothesis the Greco-aryan then starting place was West minor Asia and from there pass to Epirus, the story of Driopes (druids),

but we know that Greeks was a sub nationality , a coalition of tribes, of what we call Ellenes,
Myceneans was the south part, Greeks the North part,
the global termination Greek, pass to Latinoromans as the Alphabet by the Cyme colony,
Κυμη in Greece was a city inhabited by Greeks not myceneans, not minoans, etc etc,


PS
by what I know, this maps are about to be more specific and more analized even with dialectal details,
that is what I am expecting,
truth is I expected much from Duridanov, but expected little wrong,
although both have their points and good work, but I still keep my arquements, always in academic frames.



now about the imagination of our super nationalistic neighbors, better read modern sources, and also parts from first hand,
not rumors, I suggest to read the Kolokotronis memories, so to 'land' on truth,

 

[Yetos]

I have to explain my friend. My paternal grandfather is from Drenica region Kosova, my paternal grandmother is from Chameria region today in Greece.
My grandfather from mother is from Shkup today Fyrom and my grandmother from mother is from Ulqin today Montenegro.
My grandparents, ethnic Albanians in have come Albania because they have driven from their homeland by the Greeks and Serbs in different periods of time. They have shown me the horrors that they have experienced when they left their homeland.
You will ask me why this thing happened?
And I'll tell you. In the early nineteenth century your country Russia had a plan for the creation of two states in the Balkans, Greece, Serbia, which Russia wanted to have as an ally. Albanians were not in these plans, so the shortest route was annihilation of the Albanians.
Disasters and wars in the Balkans have been due to nationalist platforms. There are two countries in the Balkans that have nationalist platform, Serbia with Na?ertanije - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Greece with Megali_Idea
.
No other Balkan countries have a nationalist platform. WE albanians don`t have an nationalistic platforms.
The main responsibility for this situation to my nation is your country, RUSSIA.

We, Albanians know very well our national borders. I am about to quote you a very famous author, George Finlay regarded worldwide as having written the definitive work on History of the Greek Revolution.

History of the Greek Revolution (1861) Volume: 1

The Albanians

The Albanian forms a distinct race among the nations of Europe. They have been supposed by some to be the representatives of the Pelasgians. They call themselves Shkipetar. Some suppose them to have occupied the regions they now inhabit before the days of Homer, and that they are the lineal descendants of the race to which the ancient Epirots and Macedonians belonged as cognate tribes. Alexander the Great must, according to these archaeologists, have spoken an ancient Albanian dialect at his riotous banquets with his Macedonian officers.

Nearly the same boundary separates the Hellenic from the non-Hellenic population at the present day as in ancient times. Thucydides calls the Amphilochians who dwelt at the head of the Gulf of Arta barbarians. Strabo says that one race inhabited the whole country, from the Acroceraunian Mountains to the borders of Thessaly and to the plain of Pelagonia, under the name of Epirots or Macedonians, for both spoke the same language.
The whole of Albania, from the Gulf of Arta to the Lake of Skodra, is divided into innumerable lateral valleys by rugged mountains, which render the communications so difficult as to confine trade to a few lines of transport.

This is called AUTOCTHONOUS.

But we, Albanians think that Balkan countries should leave after nationalism and follow the example of Germany and France. We do not forget history, but we decided to look ahead.
We think that the way our country is integration into the European family and not to deal with maps and notions of nineteenth-century.
We believe that in this family will find a solution and the Albanian national problem.
We do not think that changing the borders will solve this problem. We think that the basic values ​​of the civilized world as democracy, law enforcement, human rights are the only solution to our national problem.
The problem is that some members here have a clear antialbanian agenda.I've reported many times to the moderators but nobody takes action here.
Do you agree with this you Robert6?

P.S.
If you are interesed i can bring a lot of evidences,although some of them are really horrible and will stun you.

Greeks did not driven away Chams,
Chams left after the judge of Saluka, cause they were afraid, due to the paramythia massacre made by Albanians
remember Xylia, Σαλουκα etc.
with help of Italians fasist and Nazi Germans Chams claim Epirus as Albania and started to excecute all Greek legal authorities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramythia_executions


In the Hostages Trial in Nuremberg (1948) the American judges called the executions in Paramythia "plain murder".^[11]


even the papper with names exist with the marks of Xylia,

 

[King Bardhyl]

way off topic