Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 3 of 42 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 1050

Thread: Balkanian disagreements.

  1. #51
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603
    Points
    22,749
    Level
    46
    Points: 22,749, Level: 46
    Level completed: 20%, Points required for next Level: 801
    Overall activity: 9.0%


    Country: Serbia





    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgonzola View Post
    Let's not get ahead of our selfs now, you can't know who the albanians like.For example I don't like Erdogan at all, or the way he does govern his country.
    For example you can watch clip when Erdogan visited Kosovo, people love him (and it cannot be hidden):


  2. #52
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603
    Points
    22,749
    Level
    46
    Points: 22,749, Level: 46
    Level completed: 20%, Points required for next Level: 801
    Overall activity: 9.0%


    Country: Serbia



    Gorgonzola, I must twice because system receives only one clip.

    In front of an audience in Prizren, Erdogan said

    Kosovo is Turkey

    and received applause.


  3. #53
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Gorgonzola's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-09-14
    Posts
    83
    Points
    3,619
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,619, Level: 17
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 231
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    For example you can watch clip when Erdogan visited Kosovo, people love him (and it cannot be hidden):

    Those people there were mostly his followers and fans.The receveing was normal and formal.You can't expect people to boo him or attack him don't you?
    Plus its normal that someone likes him since he has that position he has, he must be skilled.
    I just am not a big fan of his like i said and prefer other leaders.Most of the people i know also have my opinion.

  4. #54
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Gorgonzola's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-09-14
    Posts
    83
    Points
    3,619
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,619, Level: 17
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 231
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Albania



    If we want to talk about a "warm" welcome, we can talk about the one done by Serbia to Russian president Putin. Really impressive (and it cannot be hidden):


    Putin in Serbia: the EU candidate country welcomes ''our president''

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...president.html


    Serbia gives Putin imperial welcome

    http://www.euractiv.com/sections/glo...welcome-309269


    Putin's Visit to Serbia Strikes on European Leaders' Nerves

    http://en.ria.ru/authors/20141016/19...rs-Nerves.html




  5. #55
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603
    Points
    22,749
    Level
    46
    Points: 22,749, Level: 46
    Level completed: 20%, Points required for next Level: 801
    Overall activity: 9.0%


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgonzola View Post
    If we want to talk about a "warm" welcome, we can talk about the one done by Serbia to Russian president Putin. Really impressive (and it cannot be hidden):


    Putin in Serbia: the EU candidate country welcomes ''our president''

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...president.html


    Serbia gives Putin imperial welcome

    http://www.euractiv.com/sections/glo...welcome-309269


    Putin's Visit to Serbia Strikes on European Leaders' Nerves

    http://en.ria.ru/authors/20141016/19...rs-Nerves.html



    It is not easy for you, relationships among Slavs are very complex. Yes, Hey Slavs is very good anthem, and Tito tried brotherhood and unity of Southern Slavs.

    Serbs are probably European nation has suffered heavily the most (relative to population) in the twentieth century, only in two world wars Serbs had three million victims (from Austrians, Germans, and collaborating Balkan nations). Yet today in Serbia you'll find a few Serbs who foster hatred towards Germans and Austrians, on the contrary, they are popular these days in Serbia.

    Slavs are different story and you will never understand. These years, Serbs were mostly disappointed by Polish government, they couldn't believe that Polish government recognized Kosovo. And maybe in government of Czech Republic. For South Slavs people knew that governments are weak and under strong foreign impact.

    Serbs are old European nation and huge number of Serbs want in European union. Europe's relationships with Serbia are relationships toward itself.

    Serbia as Greece, Bulgaria etc. was 500 years under Ottoman Empire, Islamic rule and Sharia law, Serbs as Greeks, Bulgarians etc. were defending Europe from Islamic conquers, and centuries were allied with Austrians, Hungarians and others. And again, when some forces drawn Oropba and Andalus in Europe, Serbs will be on the parapet of the defense of Europe.

    At Serbs there is pride that others find hard to understand. Serbs in Middle Ages, before the Ottomans, had developed country, the nobility, and people were unusually free for that time. So today, Serbs are naturally free and critical, and not courted as lackeys stronger from themselves.

    So for Russians, people in Serbia are very critical. One of plus side is that Russians, as Chinese, Indians etc., have not recognized Kosovo. But there are minus sides, too.

    Yes, parade was beautiful, and the reason is adorable, 70 years of liberation of Belgrade by Yugoslav People army and Soviet Red army. But behind scene is another story. Serbia have large import from Russia, but the country, once medium developed, after bombing and sanctions impoverished, and debts to the Russians is growing. Only bigger export from Serbia to Russia can reduce deficit and debts, but entering in Russian market is not easy for Serbian firms.

    Serbia is quite impoverished, and in need of investment, the government is doing everything to attract investment from various parts of the world. Inconvenient when it comes to strong and powerful country, always intertwined business and politics, and some conditions. But it is reality.

    I've already said, relationships between Slavs are very complex. Serbia can want good relationships with all Slavs but neutrality is difficult to achieve when there are opposed parties.

    Personally I do not know Russian, and I do not read Russian websites, I little know the circumstances there. Perhaps the problems are different, and Balkans is very specific, probably if we think about Russia and beyond, probably Caucasus has most similarities with the Balkans. Balkans generally has a lot of problems, economic situation is difficult, Islamic state is close, and EU due to their circumstances, will not quickly accept Serbia and Montenegro, we will see further development.

  6. #56
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Gorgonzola's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-09-14
    Posts
    83
    Points
    3,619
    Level
    17
    Points: 3,619, Level: 17
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 231
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Albania



    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    It is not easy for you, relationships among Slavs are very complex. Yes, Hey Slavs is very good anthem, and Tito tried brotherhood and unity of Southern Slavs.

    Serbs are probably European nation has suffered heavily the most (relative to population) in the twentieth century, only in two world wars Serbs had three million victims (from Austrians, Germans, and collaborating Balkan nations). Yet today in Serbia you'll find a few Serbs who foster hatred towards Germans and Austrians, on the contrary, they are popular these days in Serbia.

    Slavs are different story and you will never understand. These years, Serbs were mostly disappointed by Polish government, they couldn't believe that Polish government recognized Kosovo. And maybe in government of Czech Republic. For South Slavs people knew that governments are weak and under strong foreign impact.
    If i won't understand the story of the slavs, The same way you will never understand the story of the Albanians.
    I just thought the parade was impressive since we were talking about "warm welcomes".
    Serbia knows what's best to do for herself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Serbia as Greece, Bulgaria etc. was 500 years under Ottoman Empire, Islamic rule and Sharia law, Serbs as Greeks, Bulgarians etc. were defending Europe from Islamic conquers, and centuries were allied with Austrians, Hungarians and others. And again, when some forces drawn Oropba and Andalus in Europe, Serbs will be on the parapet of the defense of Europe.
    Yes and the same thing unfortunately happened to the Albanians,a long turkish dominance, even though were one of the first people who opposed the Ottomans.
    The more than 25-years of fights of Skanderbeg and his warriors are still very popular and well known not only in Europe but to all the world.At the time most of the balkan countries had fallen The albanians were fighting and had the alliance and assistence of Rome, Neaples but also maintained tight contacts with the Hungarians.
    And today still they were among the first Nato members to send help against the fight against ISIS.

  7. #57
    Banned Achievements:
    100 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    22-02-13
    Posts
    553


    Country: Albania



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    It is not easy for you, relationships among Slavs are very complex. Yes, Hey Slavs is very good anthem, and Tito tried brotherhood and unity of Southern Slavs.

    Serbs are probably European nation has suffered heavily the most (relative to population) in the twentieth century, only in two world wars Serbs had three million victims (from Austrians, Germans, and collaborating Balkan nations). Yet today in Serbia you'll find a few Serbs who foster hatred towards Germans and Austrians, on the contrary, they are popular these days in Serbia.

    Slavs are different story and you will never understand. These years, Serbs were mostly disappointed by Polish government, they couldn't believe that Polish government recognized Kosovo. And maybe in government of Czech Republic. For South Slavs people knew that governments are weak and under strong foreign impact.

    Serbs are old European nation and huge number of Serbs want in European union. Europe's relationships with Serbia are relationships toward itself.
    I don't see Serbs by themselves as particularly dangerous in Europe.
    As an amator annalist I am, I don't see particularly any strength Serbs have compared to other Balkan people.
    But when you think that Serbs are really the extension of Russia in Europe that make Serbs a hell more dangerous than ISIS.
    ISIS is a survivalist organisation without resources and allies. Serbia has both resources and allies. Knowing dangerous policies of Russia in Europe then weakening Serbia becomes an imperative for European politicians. If Russia ever becomes a democratic state things might change, but they way they are, they look bad.
    Empowering Albanians would be a stone in European security wall, since Greece and Serbia both lean heavily to Russia.
    Serbia I don't think they can become a democratic state at this stage.
    I have heard that Serbian government teaches the population of Serbia that they are racially superior to Albanians and they are the chosen people of the Balkans. Nothing wrong with that but it reminds me Germans.
    Lets be frank! As long as you guys sleep with the same bed with Russia we must take note for our security!

    Serbia as Greece, Bulgaria etc. was 500 years under Ottoman Empire, Islamic rule and Sharia law, Serbs as Greeks, Bulgarians etc. were defending Europe from Islamic conquers, and centuries were allied with Austrians, Hungarians and others. And again, when some forces drawn Oropba and Andalus in Europe, Serbs will be on the parapet of the defense of Europe.

    At Serbs there is pride that others find hard to understand. Serbs in Middle Ages, before the Ottomans, had developed country, the nobility, and people were unusually free for that time. So today, Serbs are naturally free and critical, and not courted as lackeys stronger from themselves.

    So for Russians, people in Serbia are very critical. One of plus side is that Russians, as Chinese, Indians etc., have not recognized Kosovo. But there are minus sides, too.

    Yes, parade was beautiful, and the reason is adorable, 70 years of liberation of Belgrade by Yugoslav People army and Soviet Red army. But behind scene is another story. Serbia have large import from Russia, but the country, once medium developed, after bombing and sanctions impoverished, and debts to the Russians is growing. Only bigger export from Serbia to Russia can reduce deficit and debts, but entering in Russian market is not easy for Serbian firms.

    Serbia is quite impoverished, and in need of investment, the government is doing everything to attract investment from various parts of the world. Inconvenient when it comes to strong and powerful country, always intertwined business and politics, and some conditions. But it is reality.

    I've already said, relationships between Slavs are very complex. Serbia can want good relationships with all Slavs but neutrality is difficult to achieve when there are opposed parties.

    Personally I do not know Russian, and I do not read Russian websites, I little know the circumstances there. Perhaps the problems are different, and Balkans is very specific, probably if we think about Russia and beyond, probably Caucasus has most similarities with the Balkans. Balkans generally has a lot of problems, economic situation is difficult, Islamic state is close, and EU due to their circumstances, will not quickly accept Serbia and Montenegro, we will see further development.
    I don't see Serbs by themselves as particularly dangerous in Europe.
    As an amator annalist I am, I don't see particularly any strength Serbs have compared to other Balkan people.
    But when you think that Serbs are really the extension of Russia in Europe that make Serbs a hell more dangerous than ISIS.
    ISIS is a survivalist organisation without resources and allies. Serbia has both resources and allies. Knowing dangerous policies of Russia in Europe then weakening Serbia becomes an imperative for European politicians. If Russia ever becomes a democratic state things might change, but they way they are, they look bad.
    Empowering Albanians would be a stone in European security wall, since Greece and Serbia both lean heavily to Russia.
    Serbia I don't think they can become a democratic state at this stage.
    I have heard that Serbian government teaches the population of Serbia that they are racially superior to Albanians and they are the chosen people of the Balkans. Nothing wrong with that but it reminds me Germans.
    Lets be frank! As long as you guys sleep with the same bed with Russia we must take note for our security!

  8. #58
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603
    Points
    22,749
    Level
    46
    Points: 22,749, Level: 46
    Level completed: 20%, Points required for next Level: 801
    Overall activity: 9.0%


    Country: Serbia



    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgonzola View Post
    If i won't understand the story of the slavs, The same way you will never understand the story of the Albanians.
    I just thought the parade was impressive since we were talking about "warm welcomes".
    Serbia knows what's best to do for herself.

    Yes and the same thing unfortunately happened to the Albanians,a long turkish dominance, even though were one of the first people who opposed the Ottomans.
    The more than 25-years of fights of Skanderbeg and his warriors are still very popular and well known not only in Europe but to all the world.At the time most of the balkan countries had fallen The albanians were fighting and had the alliance and assistence of Rome, Neaples but also maintained tight contacts with the Hungarians.
    And today still they were among the first Nato members to send help against the fight against ISIS.
    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    I don't see Serbs by themselves as particularly dangerous in Europe.
    As an amator annalist I am, I don't see particularly any strength Serbs have compared to other Balkan people.
    But when you think that Serbs are really the extension of Russia in Europe that make Serbs a hell more dangerous than ISIS.
    ISIS is a survivalist organisation without resources and allies. Serbia has both resources and allies. Knowing dangerous policies of Russia in Europe then weakening Serbia becomes an imperative for European politicians. If Russia ever becomes a democratic state things might change, but they way they are, they look bad.
    Empowering Albanians would be a stone in European security wall, since Greece and Serbia both lean heavily to Russia.
    Serbia I don't think they can become a democratic state at this stage.
    I have heard that Serbian government teaches the population of Serbia that they are racially superior to Albanians and they are the chosen people of the Balkans. Nothing wrong with that but it reminds me Germans.
    Lets be frank! As long as you guys sleep with the same bed with Russia we must take note for our security!
    Sorry guys, but I will not participate in this thread.

    I thought moderator will change.

    For me word "bickering" in title is embarrassing and thread should be in Europe, because Balkans is part of Europe, we can between ourselves that we do not agree on many issues, but I would like on this issue your support because Balkans deserves better treatment.

  9. #59
    Advisor Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteranTagger First Class50000 Experience PointsRecommendation First Class
    Awards:
    Discussion Ender
    LeBrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    18-11-09
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    10,329
    Points
    113,888
    Level
    100
    Points: 113,888, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c

    Ethnic group
    Citizen of the world
    Country: Canada-Alberta



    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Sorry guys, but I will not participate in this thread.

    I thought moderator will change.

    For me word "bickering" in title is embarrassing and thread should be in Europe, because Balkans is part of Europe, we can between ourselves that we do not agree on many issues, but I would like on this issue your support because Balkans deserves better treatment.
    I don't care much how it is called, so have it your way. ;) At least we have a place to take off topic posts from some threads and continue here.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  10. #60
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    20-11-12
    Posts
    577
    Points
    3,220
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,220, Level: 16
    Level completed: 43%, Points required for next Level: 230
    Overall activity: 19.0%


    Country: Canada



    Quote Originally Posted by albanopolis View Post
    Empowering Albanians would be a stone in European security wall, since Greece and Serbia both lean heavily to Russia.
    Serbia I don't think they can become a democratic state at this stage.
    Frankly that kind of thinking is wrong and scary because it involves being the guard dog of someone else, and you have no idea who you're being thrown against. Other countries should solve their own issues directly, not use impoverished small countries as cover.

  11. #61
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    14-12-10
    Posts
    1,603
    Points
    22,749
    Level
    46
    Points: 22,749, Level: 46
    Level completed: 20%, Points required for next Level: 801
    Overall activity: 9.0%


    Country: Serbia



    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I don't care much how it is called, so have it your way. ;) At least we have a place to take off topic posts from some threads and continue here.
    Thanks LeBrok. moderators duties are hard and you do all efforts to be all right.

    I just want that Balkans deserves respect.

    The Balkans is part of Europe, not Asia or Africa, and old name for Balkans which is Turkish term, is Peninsula of Haemus, that is Thracian name, in Greek mythology king Haemus of Thrace was son of Boreas.

    Yes, today situation is difficult, Balkans is poor and depopulated area, what's interesting, while other parts in world advanced the Balkans went down.

    But things can change, once SFR Yugoslavia which was advanced country in Central and Western Balkans, was more developed than South Korea, and today if Balkan countries act wisely can catch the momentum of growth and development.

  12. #62
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Piro Ilir's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-04-15
    Posts
    1,136
    Points
    5,829
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,829, Level: 22
    Level completed: 56%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 1.0%






    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Gorgonzola, I must twice because system receives only one clip.

    In front of an audience in Prizren, Erdogan said

    Kosovo is Turkey

    and received applause.

    Yes, applause by the Turkish minority of kosova.

  13. #63
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,198
    Points
    39,935
    Level
    61
    Points: 39,935, Level: 61
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 415
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by piro ilir View Post
    yes, applause by the turkish minority of kosova.
    what is going on?

    The sons of vallavan pasha deny their father?
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  14. #64
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Piro Ilir's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-04-15
    Posts
    1,136
    Points
    5,829
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,829, Level: 22
    Level completed: 56%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 1.0%






    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    what is going on?

    The sons of vallavan pasha deny their father?
    You probably know that in Kosova is a small Turkish minority.
    Anyway, who is this Vallavan pasha and which are those sons of him you mentioning here. Can you be more precise please, because I don't get it .

  15. #65
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteranThree Friends25000 Experience Points
    Yetos's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-11
    Location
    Makedonia
    Posts
    5,198
    Points
    39,935
    Level
    61
    Points: 39,935, Level: 61
    Level completed: 69%, Points required for next Level: 415
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G2a3a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    X2b

    Ethnic group
    Makedonian original
    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    You probably know that in Kosova is a small Turkish minority.
    Anyway, who is this Vallavan pasha and which are those sons of him you mentioning here. Can you be more precise please, because I don't get it .
    Vallavan Vadera pasha

  16. #66
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Piro Ilir's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-04-15
    Posts
    1,136
    Points
    5,829
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,829, Level: 22
    Level completed: 56%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 1.0%






    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    Ok, stop this nonsense. I don't care if Ottomans ordered Albanians to do it, or they did it voluntarily or opportunistically, or you don't hold them accountable, responsible or whatever. Fact is they enforced it, and the bigger problem is that they continued doing it in 20th and 21st century.
    No one forced Serbs to leave. No serious source for this. Some Serbs were exchanged with Albanian inhabitants of Nis area. Today the Serbs are in a good and peaceful relationship with Albanians. I don't see any issue for dispute. Serbia is going in the right direction led by the prime minister Vucic. Today the Serbs of Kosova are participating on the government institutions of Kosova.

  17. #67
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Piro Ilir's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-04-15
    Posts
    1,136
    Points
    5,829
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,829, Level: 22
    Level completed: 56%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 1.0%






    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Aromani is the main composition of Albania,
    the most significant population,
    it seems that Vlach men and Slavic women made Albania
    E-V13 R1b is very strong in Aromani populations


    and about Kastrioti, search the paradox,
    one by one your propaganda fails,
    I don't know what are you talking here. You mean that vlachs were the majority on Albanian regions. Where were they. Ghosts!? You mean that the Albanian patriots were Vlachs? You mean that the the founders of the independent Albanian orthodox church were not Albanians, but they were Vlachs? You mean that the Albanian patriot Fan Noli who translated the holy written stuffs of the orthodox church into the Albanian language, was not an Albanian.
    Albanian orthodox were an important part of the Albanian renaissance. They participate powerful on the building of new Albanian state. I mentioned on a previously post some Albanian orthodox individuals, who were among the best patriots. You are free to read about their life. They spend entire their lifetime contributing on the Albanian national issue .
    I don't know much about the genetics, but I doubt your claim on the R1b and Ev13 . Both are part of Albanian lineage, especially in Kosova where the Ev13 has the higher pick. I know many Albanian orthodox, and only a very little percentage of them have Vlach roots.
    And why Kastrioti is a paradox? I don't get your point here

  18. #68
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Piro Ilir's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-04-15
    Posts
    1,136
    Points
    5,829
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,829, Level: 22
    Level completed: 56%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 1.0%






    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    In Albania for more decades (in time of Zogu and Hoxha) minorities didn't have rights. They couldn't belonging to their nation, didn't have right of mother language (about schools no question, nothing), even names they had to have Albanian etc. All inhabitants had to be only Albanians. Even today some nations in Albania have no their rights. Armanji (Aromanians) recognized only as cultural minority not national minority.

    Armanji (Aromanians) mostly assimilated. We will see in next censuses if they have right of national minority. Arno Tarner in the book of forgotten minorities writes that today Armanji in Albania are about 100,000 - 200,000 (his estimate). Tom Winnifrith speaks about 200,000. They include and Armanji who speak only Albanian. Ali Pasha and other Albanian pashas, begs and fighters, together with Turks, destroyed Armanji population in Albania, and they are known facts. Once, capital of Armanji land, Moskopole had over 50,000 people, and it was one of the greatest cities in the Balkans. Today Voskopoja (Moskopole) is village with population 2,200 people, everyone can see extent of destruction. Armanji in Albania for centuries suffered oppression, and many have assimilated. They mostly saved their faith and today they are Orthodox Albanians.

    One text:

    http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1097921.html

    "By the mid-18th century, Voskopoja had a population of nearly 50,000 and was reputed to be one of the largest towns in the Balkans. But in 1769, the Turks ordered the local Albanian bey [ruler] to destroy the town but to leave the churches standing, thus beginning a long decline.

    Voskopoja today is being depopulated. According to last April's census, Voskopoja and the surrounding villages have a population of 2,200. Many inhabitants work in lowland cities or in Greece.

    Dhori Fallo is a writer and local historian. He says Aromanian has always survived, despite difficult conditions: "There has been no school in Aromanian [in Voskopoja] since 1920. So [the Vlachs] had no other choice than to learn Albanian, even having to pay for private lessons. They were Albanian citizens and were only able to speak Aromanian at home."

    Today, scholars believe more Vlachs reside in Albania's cities than in the countryside, in marked contrast to the rest of Albania's population. As a result, they say Aromanian is in greater danger than ever of falling into disuse.

    No one has any idea exactly how many Vlachs live in Albania. British scholar Tom Winnifrith estimates their number at 200,000, while other estimates put them at well under 50,000. As a result of a decision by Albania's parliament, this year's census made no reference to ethnic identity, mother tongue, or religion."
    During the communist dictatorship the whole population including Albanians didn't had any rights. Although Greeks and Vlachs were treated much better than the rest of the population. They were part of the communist leadership party. Moskopole is located in mountainous area. It is a touristic place today. You are free to visit. You will notice that this small city is too mountainous, and this is the reason why it decreased in population and in economic importance. The same happened on other cities of Albanian population. 60-70 of the Albanian territory is geographically mountainous region. There was not any kind of repression. Vlachs participated powerful on the Albanian renaissance. They generally had good and peaceful relations with the Albanians

  19. #69
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Piro Ilir's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-04-15
    Posts
    1,136
    Points
    5,829
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,829, Level: 22
    Level completed: 56%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 1.0%






    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    so at least you admit the burn down of Moschopolis (relatives in law comes from there)
    but what about Durres? first was Aromanian Speakers, second Greeks then Albanians what now?come onj
    come on admit it, Goranje people when come to Greece say we are muslim Slavs, and they are >10% of population,
    AT LEAST FACE THE TRUTH ONCE,
    About which period of the history you are talking? Durres was inhabited by many ethnicities. It was an important economical center. One of the most important principalities of the medieval era was the principality of Arta, located from ambracian gulf spread further south until the gulf of Corinth. The Albanian lord was Gjin Bua Shpata. His principality was inhabited mostly by Albanians. So what? The Greeks living there are assimilated Albanians? We are talking about today

  20. #70
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Piro Ilir's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-04-15
    Posts
    1,136
    Points
    5,829
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,829, Level: 22
    Level completed: 56%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 1.0%






    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    it is bigger Geopolitical and Geostrategical,
    They are pushing Russia and Iran to enter the chess game, by Using Turkey
    Turks might be second power in NATO, but they can be divided easily,
    Besides History shows that Turks with out Kurds , Albanians or Greeks are very weak, like the Byzantines in their end,
    after the fitvah against Ibrahim given by Kadi effents to Suleiman Turkey is decline, only Kemal could save her, and Erdogan is not Kemal,
    he listen to suni imams more, than to normal logic,


    the old list of terrorist from FOREIGN OFFICE USA, had as terrorists 3 groups
    IRA in North Ireland
    ETA in Vasquez country
    PKK in Turkey
    his action is Like Spain bombing Gascones in France for ETA
    UK bombing ireland for IRA

    he points that by ressurecting old memories of fear, and purposing on religious feelings, he would manage to get his power back,
    and if not he might be dictator, playing the game of a 'religious reformer' against Kemal who was not so religious but more militaristic and industrialist
    but the truth is that he is pushing Russia and Iran to enter, so give excuse for NATO to enter Iran for nuclear program,
    he is smart, but plays with fire, a fire than can not only burn Turkey, but expand in Balkans, Ukjraine etc

    I can expand more, but it will sound like Global conspiracy theories
    In my opinion Erdogan is not a truly religious man. He just trying to use everything he can to stay in power as long as possible. He is trying to imitate Putin. Turkey is a great nation, we like it or not. They don't need sulltans for their empowerment.

  21. #71
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Piro Ilir's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-04-15
    Posts
    1,136
    Points
    5,829
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,829, Level: 22
    Level completed: 56%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 1.0%






    Quote Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
    Yes Yetos. In 17th and 18th century Armanji (Aromanians) were numerous and they wanted to create own state. But Albanians and Turks didn't allow it and they destroyed this nation. Swedish historian Johann Thunmann wrote that in these areas main language was Aromanian and people spoke Greek. Aromanian and Greek, not Albanian. Armanji ended tragically or they were assimilated or they had to escape. According some scholars about 200,000 inhabitants in Albania today are Armanji, though if we take in account time and extent of assimilation, their number can be much higher.
    It can't be true. Only Moskopolje was recorded as an Vlach city. What about the Vlachs of Serbia. What happened with them,. The same assimilation which happened to the Albanians of Sandsak? !

  22. #72
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Ike's Avatar
    Join Date
    20-12-10
    Posts
    1,128
    Points
    4,720
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,720, Level: 20
    Level completed: 18%, Points required for next Level: 330
    Overall activity: 3.0%


    Country: Yugoslavia



    Quote Originally Posted by Piro Ilir View Post
    No one forced Serbs to leave. No serious source for this. Some Serbs were exchanged with Albanian inhabitants of Nis area. Today the Serbs are in a good and peaceful relationship with Albanians. I don't see any issue for dispute. Serbia is going in the right direction led by the prime minister Vucic. Today the Serbs of Kosova are participating on the government institutions of Kosova.
    So, now that you've cleansed the territory, you think that things between you and Serbians are all right? That they're gonna let you get away with that?

  23. #73
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Piro Ilir's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-04-15
    Posts
    1,136
    Points
    5,829
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,829, Level: 22
    Level completed: 56%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 1.0%






    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    that is correct, but
    Ottomans were responsable for the Armenian genocide and many other crimes
    After Ottomans were defeated Ataturk founded a new Turkey which was going in the good direction
    now there is a new nostalgia in Turkey for 'good old Ottoman times'
    Erdogan is a dangerous man and he has many supporters inside Turkey who are nostalgic nationalists and/or believe in Muslim supremacy
    he has lost last elections because many Kurds voted against him and now he tries to turn Kurds into outlaws
    I don't see any divergence between our posts. We can't blame modern people, for what did their ancestors. People are responsible for their own actions

  24. #74
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Piro Ilir's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-04-15
    Posts
    1,136
    Points
    5,829
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,829, Level: 22
    Level completed: 56%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 1.0%






    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    then can we blaim the Albanians for the massacre and burn down villages to Greeks?
    from Epirus Nova to Peloponese?
    To which case or event you are referring? I think you confound all the time Turks and Albanians. This is your problem, not mine.

  25. #75
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Veteran5000 Experience Points
    Piro Ilir's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-04-15
    Posts
    1,136
    Points
    5,829
    Level
    22
    Points: 5,829, Level: 22
    Level completed: 56%, Points required for next Level: 221
    Overall activity: 1.0%






    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ike View Post
    So, now that you've cleansed the territory, you think that things between you and Serbians are all right? That they're gonna let you get away with that?
    I could say the same for the ethnic cleansing of Nis and south Serbian territory. Albanians composed a large number of the population there before the Serbian ethnic cleansing.
    So what they are gonna do ? Can you say that? And don't say "you" because I'm not representing any country nor any state here, only myself.
    Ike, at least, Serbs never won a war against the Albanians. . For sure Albanians were among the best soldiers during millennia.
    You like it or not, today relationships between Serbs and Albanians are good and are going on the right direction.
    A new war with be tremendous and disastrous for the Serbs.

Page 3 of 42 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •