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Thread: Why Vikings did not bring any N1c in Great Britain?

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    Why Vikings did not bring any N1c in Great Britain?

    I am very curios why Vikings who raided and settled in Great Britain did not brought any N1C there.
    Also If I am looking at Iceland,N1C is very few there.
    Took a look now at the page:
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/europe...logroups.shtml
    And there is very few N in Denmark - 1% and few in Norway - 2.5% while Sweden got 7%.
    So as a possibility,maybe Vikings raiding in Britain were mostly Norwegian and Danes Vikings.
    And Swedish Vikings did not raided in Great Britain.
    I have seen some genetic testing of Swedes and the percentage of N1C is raising,as you move towards North Sweden.
    I think is same in Norway,but those people did not went raiding in Great Britain,I guess only those from South Norway and from near shores raided in Great Britain or even settled there.

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Because most of the Scandinavian N1c came from Saami people integrated to Scandinavian society in the last five centuries or so. In the Viking Age, Germanics and Saami lived in completely separate communities.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Because most of the Scandinavian N1c came from Saami people integrated to Scandinavian society in the last five centuries or so. In the Viking Age, Germanics and Saami lived in completely separate communities.
    You have proof for that? Like anything that links the haplos coming from Saami?

    I can recommend not to use much time trying to get evidence, you wont find it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Because most of the Scandinavian N1c came from Saami people integrated to Scandinavian society in the last five centuries or so. In the Viking Age, Germanics and Saami lived in completely separate communities.
    Rurik was not Saami person integrated in Scandinavian society in last 5 centuries. Do you see Kvens as only legend?

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    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    Rurik was not Saami person integrated in Scandinavian society in last 5 centuries. Do you see Kvens as only legend?
    You can find L550 and L1025 in Finland, also note L1022 spread from England to Russia.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    germanic tribes were farmers, saami and fenni were hunters
    700 BC climate started to deterioriate, germanic tribes started shifting south
    saami and fenni came to the places in the north were germanic tribes left

    vikings descend from the germanic tribes, they were farmers who's lands got overpopulated, hence war and raiding

    saami and fennic hunters never mixed with germanic/viking farmers
    saami and fennic kept their own Uralic languages, they did not adopt German language

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    germanic tribes were farmers, saami and fenni were hunters
    700 BC climate started to deterioriate, germanic tribes started shifting south
    saami and fenni came to the places in the north were germanic tribes left

    vikings descend from the germanic tribes, they were farmers who's lands got overpopulated, hence war and raiding

    saami and fennic hunters never mixed with germanic/viking farmers
    saami and fennic kept their own Uralic languages, they did not adopt German language


    Germanics where living in Finland before the arrival of the Baltic Finns from Estonia.
    Baltic Finns where not hunters when they came from the Volga, they where pastoralists, farmers and traders and they came to Estonia and from there to Finland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    germanic tribes were farmers, saami and fenni were hunters
    700 BC climate started to deterioriate, germanic tribes started shifting south
    saami and fenni came to the places in the north were germanic tribes left

    vikings descend from the germanic tribes, they were farmers who's lands got overpopulated, hence war and raiding

    saami and fennic hunters never mixed with germanic/viking farmers
    saami and fennic kept their own Uralic languages, they did not adopt German language
    There actually was a fair bit of mixing in Norway after the Bubonic Plague wiped out most of the Norwegians living in the northern part of the country without having much affect on the Saami, who had lived quite separate lives until then. The Norwegian government encouraged the Sea Saami to settle on abandoned farms and adopt the Norwegian language and Norwegian culture. This process continued until the early 1700s. If you do a search for "Saami" and "Bubonic Plague", you can find lots of information about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    You can find L550 and L1025 in Finland, also note L1022 spread from England to Russia.
    That was question to Maciamo. About Kvens. I personally think their lines went into vikings, and were main lines among early varyagians.

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    This is how Estonians, Finns, Livonians etc came to the Baltic, first in Estonia and from there they spread, Germanics and others had a language shift, like in West Finland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    That was question to Maciamo. About Kvens. I personally think their lines went into vikings, and were main lines among early varyagians.
    So they have to speak Norse to do Viking shit, like playing pirate in boats?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    So they have to speak Norse to do Viking shit, like playing pirate in boats?
    :)
    They nevertheless did speak Norse if not native then at least as sort of lingua Franca.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    :)
    They nevertheless did speak Norse if not native then at least as sort of lingua Franca.
    Yes they did, it was the lingua franca, but they where Baltic Finns, we are here today as an living proof.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post



    This is how Estonians, Finns, Livonians etc came to the Baltic, first in Estonia and from there they spread, Germanics and others had a language shift, like in West Finland.
    why did they move?

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    Ulfberht swords.

    Finland is full of Viking swords, in areas that never spoke a form of Norse as native language!
    They are still digging the stuff up, this year alone many swords.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    why did they move?
    Either something came from the steppe and they fled or they just attacked to get hold of this strategic trade route.
    The move to the Baltic happened in the bronze age, the expansion to Finland happened during the iron age, Finland was rich in furs and also controlled routes to White Sea and more riches.

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    I saw that there is a folk hero in Finland,called Ahti:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahti
    This description of a " fierce sea-going warrior" who was "raiding" do not shows that Ahti was a Viking?
    EDIT:
    Well it seems my supposition was wrong,there is N1C in British Isles:
    http://eng.molgen.org/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=1388

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    Well it seems my supposition was wrong,there is N1C in British Isles:
    http://eng.molgen.org/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=1388

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    Btw - did vikings bring their steretypical (non-N1C) set of haplos to Russia/Baltics?

    Another interesting piece on wiki:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnveden
    quote:
    Based on some medieval sources, Rurik was born on the Roslagen seashore, north of Stockholm in the modern-day Sweden. At the time of Rurik's birth,[6] the rule of the Norse, Sveas, Geats, Gutes and Danes covered only the southernmost parts of Scandinavia.
    Thus, Rurik's DNA would be explained by the view of the historians who claim that the rest of Scandinavia – including Haalogaland with Nor's Kvens and their descendants – was inhabited only by the Kvens and the Sami.


    Another thing. Reading on first Sweddish viking centers something happened to them. This is from wiki about Birka city:
    "Birka was abandoned during the later half of the 10th century. Based on the coin finds, the city seems to have silenced around 960." and later in text "The Varangian trade stations in Russia suffered a serious decline at roughly the same date.".

    Birka was replaced by Sigtuna as new center..

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    I saw that there is a folk hero in Finland,called Ahti:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahti
    This description of a " fierce sea-going warrior" who was "raiding" do not shows that Ahti was a Viking?
    EDIT:
    Well it seems my supposition was wrong,there is N1C in British Isles:
    http://eng.molgen.org/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=1388
    Yes, L550 and L1022, also in Netherlands, located in iron/viking age trade hubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    I saw that there is a folk hero in Finland,called Ahti:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahti
    This description of a " fierce sea-going warrior" who was "raiding" do not shows that Ahti was a Viking?
    EDIT:
    Well it seems my supposition was wrong,there is N1C in British Isles:
    http://eng.molgen.org/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=1388

    Yes, L550 and L1022, L1022 you will have hard time connecting to anything but Baltic Finns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    Btw - did vikings bring their steretypical (non-N1C) set of haplos to Russia/Baltics?

    Another interesting piece on wiki:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnveden
    quote:
    Based on some medieval sources, Rurik was born on the Roslagen seashore, north of Stockholm in the modern-day Sweden. At the time of Rurik's birth,[6] the rule of the Norse, Sveas, Geats, Gutes and Danes covered only the southernmost parts of Scandinavia.
    Thus, Rurik's DNA would be explained by the view of the historians who claim that the rest of Scandinavia – including Haalogaland with Nor's Kvens and their descendants – was inhabited only by the Kvens and the Sami.


    Another thing. Reading on first Sweddish viking centers something happened to them. This is from wiki about Birka city:
    "Birka was abandoned during the later half of the 10th century. Based on the coin finds, the city seems to have silenced around 960." and later in text "The Varangian trade stations in Russia suffered a serious decline at roughly the same date.".

    Birka was replaced by Sigtuna as new center..

    Sigtuna was also attacked and burned by Baltic Finns after that.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I speculate decline of N1C1 varyag clans coincided with Birka's and Varangian trade stations decline. Power changed and other folk took over. Probably those were events which made Sweden less N1C1.. Just speculating.

    In 1187 Sigtuna was attacked and pillaged by raiders from across the Baltic Sea, possibly Karelians,[2][3] Curonian and/or Oeselian raiders (c)wiki. My first idea was Sigtuna's attack was retaliation, but then it was 200 years later, so probably unrelated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arvistro View Post
    I speculate decline of N1C1 varyag clans coincided with Birka's and Varangian trade stations decline. Power changed and other folk took over. Probably those were events which made Sweden less N1C1.. Just speculating.

    In 1187 Sigtuna was attacked and pillaged by raiders from across the Baltic Sea, possibly Karelians,[2][3] Curonian and/or Oeselian raiders (c)wiki. My first idea was Sigtuna's attack was retaliation, but then it was 200 years later, so probably unrelated.

    Or not, Svea was taken over by Geats, there was a civil war and just after that they landed in Finland.
    Karelians used to call West Finns Ruotsi, as in Swedes, where some claim the word Rus comes from.
    There might have been a hybrid culture in Svea proper, Gotland also has a lot of N1c, Gotland had always good relations with Finns and Oselians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ukko View Post
    Or not, Svea was taken over by Geats, there was a civil war and just after that they landed in Finland.
    Karelians used to call West Finns Ruotsi, as in Swedes, where some claim the word Rus comes from.
    There might have been a hybrid culture in Svea proper, Gotland also has a lot of N1c, Gotland had always good relations with Finns and Oselians.
    Can you give me a good source to read on Geat vs Svea civil war?

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