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Not to mention the fact that Portugal and Greece are the poorest countries of the so called "Western Europe", even if they didn't have Communism to hinder their progress as most of Eastern Europe did (Croatia was Communist and experienced a civil war as well, partly excused).
(starry-eyed immigrants who come from even worse environments?).
I know we are all humans. That's where the word "impulsive" comes into play. Some countries are characterized by people of more impulsive behaviour, whereas others are not.
I'm curious as to what kind of contrary, and from whom you have heard it (starry-eyed immigrants who come from even worse environments?).
Lastly, it's not a bad idea.
I think it's worth remarking that comment was originally typed by the hands of an Italian when saying what kind of people will like Italy. He was from Rome.
And let's check the profile of people from Northern countries who move to Southern Europe. Pensioners who are done with life and just want some rest in a more weather-friendly environment? Or those who come with the discourse of "oh, people here are friendlier, and I love olives and wine"?
Rather, let's check the rate and proportions of Northerns to the South and Southerners to the North. What surpasses?
Pensioners get the money from their original countries, like they don't need to rely on wages of Southern European countries. And they just want to enjoy the rest of their life in these countries, which are admittedly of a mindset easier to deal. It's not like they thought Spain or Greece were better than their nations Sweden or Germany, to the point of having actually moved there at a younger age and not at senior years. They know their own countries have a more thriving environment. A different trend from what I see, that many young people from Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece are moving to Northern Europe.
Of course the majority of people actually stay where they were born. But when it comes to those to migrate, you see different rates. I don't hear about large influx of Germans or Norwegians moving abroad because they "can't bear to live in that mess". Now, what I do see is the profile of migrants from Latin America: never ever willing to come back to their homeland, and sometimes overtly insulting it. Not to mention the Southern Europeans who are revolted at their countries' drawbacks, and just "play the German".
Why the question?
you make it sound so dramatic and as if affection is nearly a crime. I was in Quebec and I hugged my friends and kissed on the cheek on greetings without feeling like an outcast .
http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-5756/10-Reasons-Why-We-Need-at-Least-8-Hugs-a-Day.html
Just some humor
Yes. I'm wiling to discover what countries in Europe are rather the opposite of those traits. My question is not about whether there are countries like that (I know there are), but what countries are.
I am of course also willing to get as deep into this as possible. If a comprehensive analysis could be made, nice.
I am going to be super honest with you. Many people get angry when touching the subject of "Nordicist countries are better, southern European countries are worse", but I find it terrible that people also either try to sugar-coat the facts or ignore them.
I have myself read from people from Southern Europe themselves (Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Cyprus and Croatia, for example), the ups of their countries don't go far from food, weather and sceneries. But when it comes to efficiency of services, social cohesion and some others, some would criticize or even simply say "It's not good to live in Italy". Not to mention the fact that Portugal and Greece are the poorest countries of the so called "Western Europe", even if they didn't have Communism to hinder their progress as most of Eastern Europe did (Croatia was Communist and experienced a civil war as well, partly excused).
Considering this, I find it at least worth a moment of reflection if countries which are (granted, emotionally expressiveness have its benefits) of a rather emotional character, have the setback of also having slack structures and foundations (shown in lower positions on indices of development, all having with the exception of Italy a Purchasing Power Parity lower than EU-28 and Europe, not counting Russia). And don't get me started on Latin America.
Edit: Nothing personal against you, it would have no basis. It's just that I get quite upset to see that in most cases countries don't progress so much when having such traits. I am kind of fed up by experience.
Oh, and should you come to the U.S., I assure you that kissing on the cheek as a greeting, at least between men and women, is absolutely de rigueur. It used to be one side, then two, and now we're approaching the three times European version. Some hugging goes along with it, too much so at times for my liking, in fact. Some men, especially after imbibing a little too much in the way of holiday cheer, are a bit too enthusiastic if you get my drift.
Also, should you be in a group with a lot of Italian and Greek Americans, a kiss in greeting between men will not be limited to gay men, and will not get you ostracized. Quite normal, in fact. I would suggest going to Astoria, Queens if you go to New York, especially if it's summer time. You'll think you're in Athens! At one point, I actually wrote up a whole New York City insider's itinerary for a friend. I should post it in the travel thread as a foreigner's guide at some point. Parts of it were pretty funny, I think.
Ed. Sorry, that got a little bit off topic.
Anyway, I think it's always good, and a sign of emotional health. when a group shows an ability to have a laugh at itself.
What do you consider an insult, emphasizing the visible truth about these countries?
Also, he was absolutely not the only Italian to make such a bitter remark about Italy. According to my experience, I have seen more Italians and Portuguese complaining about their own countries than Norwegians, Germans or Finns. One might infer that either Northern Europeans are too proud or that there's something wrong with Southerners' lands.
I think it is nice we even can have this discussion. Big cities are getting more and more similar. Sometimes only by historical center you can tell which city you are in. Same brands, same shops, same McDonalds, same faces in similar costumes. Who knows maybe in 100 years there will be a Little Italy in ... Rome.
On the topic. GDP per capita
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...er_capita#World_1.E2.80.932003_.28Maddison.29
This shows that at
1500 AD Italy had the best economy. 1100 USD vs ~800 to closer competitors.
From 1500-1700 AD Italy stagnated at 1100 USD. Netherlands made enormous progress 2100 USD. UK, Belgium and Denmark got to Italy's level.
From 1700-1820 AD Italy still stagnated. UK catched Netherlands which had dropped, both around 1800 USD. Other West Europe catched Italy, except Norway, Finland, Portugal.
From 1820-1870 AD rich countries were UK, Netherlands, Belgium. Then Switzerland, Denmark, France, Austria, Germany. Italy was below Sweden but above Norway and other West Euros
From 1870-1913 AD Switzerland started its sprint and catched Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark. UK was still the richest. Germany, France, Austria, Sweden then. Norway almost catched Italy.
From 1913-1950 AD Current state more or less formed. Germany, Austria and Italy were down the West Euro list after WW II. Switzerland moved to No1.
From 1950-1973 AD More or less current state continued. Germany and Austria climbed up a bit.
2003 AD Italy had same GDP per capita than Germany. Granted both were only above Spain and Portugal.
2003-2013 AD Italy dropped to 75% of Germany and German speaking countries.
We guys are talking the last 10 years Although I am not sure if 2003 is reliable. Was German GDP per capita then on par with Italian when adjusted for PPP? Sounds unbelievable today. Need to check some other sources apart from Madison estimates.
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